Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

[quote=Buster;651127]Are you going to criticize Peyton Manning for that too?[/quote]

There's no way you can bring up Peyton Manning to compare him against Campbell. He's at least one level above him.

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

[quote=warriorzpath;651126]I wouldn't criticize myself if I was Portis.[/quote]

Sure you would, one of your 10 personalities wouldn't like yourself. My guess would be[B] [B]Coach Janky Spanky[/B][/B].

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

[quote=warriorzpath;651132]There's no way you can bring up Peyton Manning to compare him against Campbell. He's at least one level above him.[/quote]

Not comparing abilities, but they do have a similar work ethic. They're both film junkies and study the game. Campbell's had to with all of the offensive coordinators he's had.

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

[quote=Buster;651133]Sure you would, one of your 10 personalities wouldn't like yourself. My guess would be[B] [B]Coach Janky Spanky[/B][/B].[/quote]

Everyone here in this thread that criticizes Campbell is Portis to you.

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

[quote=warriorzpath;651119]I'd say the 2 bolded lines contradict each other.[/quote]

Not really. Imagine what he could have done with good protection and being able to drop back more than 3 steps without getting blasted.

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

[quote=firstdown;651120]While I agree with you JC has lead by example I think he lacked vocal leadership on the field. He needed to get in the face of a few players to wake them up and get them going. [B]Its like after a 3rd and out where the WR missed the ball JC would just turn to the side lines and start looking at pictures.[/B] [B]He needed to sometime approach the player tell them to get it together but I just never saw him do that.[/B] I don't mean he sould do that after ever missed ball but once in a while to let the guys know he is running the team and needs them to make those plays.[/quote]

There's not always time for anything else. Besides, what are the position coaches for?

Are you just going by what you saw on TV or were you at all the games watching his every move?

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

[quote]
Oh yeah, well I (Clinton Portis) have expose you Brian Mitchell. More post then me with two month difference in time! Always coming after me for this and that. Look Dan Snyder and I not even that close, but I telling you guys Shannahan a great coach, I mean it not like I trying to secure a job or nothin. Oh and while I at it Bruce Allen the best GM in the league, specially if he keep me. Of course if either one of them decide to cut me then I must say that move "genius".

Still B-Mitch I'm getting tired of this, I'm fetching Gilbert Arenas on your sorry ass.

By the way my line suck, can I please get some blockas!
[/quote]Dirtbag, If you are really CP, this is how your post would read.

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

Dude I used to love Portis but ever since he made those comments about Vick and the dog fighting, I just can't stand the guy...

[url=http://www.wtop.com/?nid=293&sid=1147669]Portis Says Dog Fighting is No Crime - wtop.com[/url]

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

So who are the two people that support Portis over JC??

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

[quote=Mattyk;651140]Not really. Imagine what he could have done with good protection and being able to drop back more than 3 steps without getting blasted.[/quote]

So all of this backstabbing and lack of leadership is a lesser problem to you.

I think you and a lot of people on here are downplaying too much the importance in leadership. That's the biggest difference in Gibbs and Zorn.. Peyton Manning and Jason Campbell..

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

[quote=Mattyk;651151]So who are the two people that support Portis over JC??[/quote]

warriorzpath and either Portis himself, or possibly someone with "Big Hair".

Are you able to edit it now and make it a public poll?

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

[quote=Buster;651160]warriorzpath and either Portis himself, or possibly someone with "Big Hair".

[B]Are you able to edit it now and make it a public poll[/B]?[/quote]

Unfortunately not.

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

[quote=Buster;651160]warriorzpath and either Portis himself, or possibly someone with "Big Hair".

Are you able to edit it now and make it a public poll?[/quote]

You've been on Campbell's sack all season long. Until he's part of the solution, campbell's part of the problem - a big part of the problem because of the role he needs to play on the team.

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

[quote=warriorzpath;651164]You've been on Campbell's sack all season long. Until he's part of the solution, campbell's part of the problem - a big part of the problem because of the role he needs to play on the team.[/quote]

Way to bring some maturity to the discussion.

Look at his numbers. Watch some game tapes. Campbell did extremely well for a QB with zero protection. I'm not saying he's our future or will be the next great QB, but his play earned him a shot to stick around and play behind a real offensive line at least for another year or two to see if his progress will lead to success for the team if he's able to play with some help. The emergence of Davis, Thomas and even Kelly later in the season can be attributed partly to Campbell. We just need to see what he can do with blocking and a running game. Without either of those, our offense actually looked respectable later in the season, scoring 113 in the first 8 and 153 in the last 8 (average brought down by Dallas games with 6 total in 2 games).

It's Shanahan's choice, but in my opinion he's earned his spot for next season, or at least a chance to win it in camp.

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

[quote=warriorzpath;651164]You've been on Campbell's sack all season long. Until he's part of the solution, campbell's part of the problem - a big part of the problem because of the role he needs to play on the team.[/quote]

A big part of the problem is the lack of talent that this football team has failed to put around players on offense, especially at the trenches.

Leadership is important but each player has its own type of leadership. Honestly, with people like Portis around and with the fact that the ownership did not want him, it would have been very difficult for Campbell to be the vocal leader people want him to be. And honestly, he would have looked like a moron if he was like that and we still had a 4-12 record.

I find it funny that you and Portis seemed to be the only people with an issue on Campbell's leadership, yet it appears that a number of players in the locker room back their QB, what does that tell you about leadership?

And I believe you are being simple minded in regards to blaming the deficiencies of this team on leadership. Jake Delhomme has always been portrayed as a very vocal and passionate QB, yet he played like crap and he's going to be on the bench next season. QBs like Eli Manning and Joe Flacco are not mouthing around their leadership, yet they've found success.

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

[url=http://www.homermcfanboy.com/2010/01/06/teammates-tired-of-the-portis-drama/]HomerMcFanboy » teammates tired of the portis drama[/url]

who still wants this guy on the skins?

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

Great points, Ruhskins, leadership is not exclusively vocal activity.

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

Campbell still showed positive steps this year, even though personally i dont see him being our best future option. Portis got injured and was less than eager to get back on the field. I choose campbell.

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

[quote=Ruhskins;651175]A big part of the problem is the lack of talent that this football team has failed to put around players on offense, especially at the trenches.

Leadership is important but each player has its own type of leadership. Honestly, with people like Portis around and with the fact that the ownership did not want him, it would have been very difficult for Campbell to be the vocal leader people want him to be. And honestly, he would have looked like a moron if he was like that and we still had a 4-12 record.

I find it funny that you and Portis seemed to be the only people with an issue on Campbell's leadership, yet it appears that a number of players in the locker room back their QB, what does that tell you about leadership?

And I believe you are being simple minded in regards to blaming the deficiencies of this team on leadership. Jake Delhomme has always been portrayed as a very vocal and passionate QB, yet he played like crap and he's going to be on the bench next season. QBs like Eli Manning and Joe Flacco are not mouthing around their leadership, yet they've found success.[/quote]

I don't understand why the whole team sucks and should be fired, but Campbell gets a pass cause the whole team sucks and that's why he isn't doing well a lot of the time and he just needs another chance.

I just can't understand this mindset. I'm telling all of you Campbell supporters - you guys need some help. It's almost like a sickness or addiction or something.

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

I sided with JC and am also tired of Portis' whinings. That being said CP was right on.

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

[quote=Mattyk;651145][B]There's not always time for anything else. Besides, what are the position coaches for?[/B]

Are you just going by what you saw on TV or were you at all the games watching his every move?[/quote]
Aren't you glad you won't have to hear about Hixon this pre-season! (vice versa if he does stay, it's gotta be some hidden pics :-))

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

[quote=warriorzpath;651183]I don't understand why the whole team sucks and should be fired, but Campbell gets a pass cause the whole team sucks and that's why he isn't doing well a lot of the time and he just needs another chance.

I just can't understand this mindset. I'm telling all of you Campbell supporters - you guys need some help. It's almost like a sickness or addiction or something.[/quote]

I don't think Campbell or anyone gets a pass, I just find it laughable that you are saying that the team sucks because Campbell didn't have any leadership.

I also find it laughable with the notion that just by changing the QB things will turn around. We're not Minnesota, that had all the tools in place for the team that they had, and all they had to do is put in an old but effective QB.

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

Maybe this team has too many leaders and not enough followers. Everyone seems to have all the answers and their own agenda. If you can't get in line behind your QB, get the F out. It's the coaches decision who leads this team.

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

[quote=warriorzpath;651183]I don't understand why the whole team sucks and should be fired, but Campbell gets a pass cause the whole team sucks and that's why he isn't doing well a lot of the time and he just needs another chance.

I just can't understand this mindset. I'm telling all of you Campbell supporters - you guys need some help. It's almost like a sickness or addiction or something.[/quote]Put as simply as possible, a lot of us spend a lot of free time trying to figure out where the problems on this team lie through the analysis of such tools as stats and game tape (even the flawed TV feed), and these people have come to a whole bunch of conclusions on where the problems lie. Others do not do this and it really does show in their posts.

There are people here who break down game film who feel that Campbell should not be brought back. Others feel he should be brought back, but under different circumstances. Both positions are pretty defensible, although I think sometimes the discussion can stray towards points where there is no supporting evidence (i.e. leadership).

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

[quote=GTripp0012;651199]Put as simply as possible, a lot of us spend a lot of free time trying to figure out where the problems on this team lie through the analysis of such tools as stats and game tape (even the flawed TV feed), and these people have come to a whole bunch of conclusions on where the problems lie. Others do not do this and it really does show in their posts.

There are people here who break down game film who feel that Campbell should not be brought back. Others feel he should be brought back, but under different circumstances. Both positions are pretty defensible, although I think sometimes the discussion can stray [B]towards points where there is no supporting evidence (i.e. leadership)[/B].[/quote]

I don't know, I think there's some supporting evidence for a lack of leadership in what is being said in the media -- with all the backstabbing going on, the way things were run and handled, and just simply the opinion of others made public.

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

[quote=warriorzpath;651210]I don't know, I think there's some supporting evidence for a lack of leadership in what is being said in the media -- with all the backstabbing going on, the way things were run and handled, and just simply the opinion of others made public.[/quote]Yeah, that's not evidence one way or another. It's being filtered through three or four channels, and is being written to tell a story.

Even if it was evidence, I'm not sure what conclusions could be drawn from it.

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

[quote=Ruhskins;651175]A big part of the problem is the lack of talent that this football team has failed to put around players on offense, especially at the trenches.

Leadership is important but each player has its own type of leadership. Honestly, with people like Portis around and with the fact that the ownership did not want him, it would have been very difficult for Campbell to be the vocal leader people want him to be. And honestly, he would have looked like a moron if he was like that and we still had a 4-12 record.

I find it funny that you and Portis seemed to be the only people with an issue on Campbell's leadership, yet it appears that a number of players in the locker room back their QB, what does that tell you about leadership?

And I believe you are being simple minded in regards to blaming the deficiencies of this team on leadership. Jake Delhomme has always been portrayed as a very vocal and passionate QB, yet he played like crap and he's going to be on the bench next season. [B]QBs like Eli Manning and Joe Flacco are not mouthing around their leadership, yet they've found success[/B].[/quote]Eli was slammed by the media his first few seasons for not being a "fiery leader". Campbell's work ethic and courage on the field are leadership enough. I hope that he's given the chance to start for us next year, because with improved protection, I still believe that he will make significant progress toward becoming a top-10 QB.

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

I'd rather have Campbell for 10 more seasons than have Portis on the team for 10 minutes past the start of the uncapped year. He needs to go.

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;651216]I'd rather have Campbell for 10 more seasons than have Portis on the team for 10 minutes past the start of the uncapped year. He needs to go.[/quote]

Agreed 100%

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

[quote=GTripp0012;651213]Yeah, that's not evidence one way or another. It's being filtered through three or four channels, and is being written to tell a story.

Even if it was evidence, I'm not sure what conclusions could be drawn from it.[/quote]

This isn't a courtroom where there's "hard" evidence.

And the fact of the matter is - that most of this is coming straight from the players and coaches involved. And even it is filtered - there's no one denying that what is being quoted was not accurate.

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

As soon as the season ended, there were players questioning leadership. I think that's evidence enough that there was a lack of leadership.

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

Or perhaps it's just affirmation that the team was disappointed in the results of the season.

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

I still don't get some things that are just denied by some on here. There's a pink elephant right in the middle of the room, and some people are still ignoring and denying that there's anything even there.

Now that pink elephant is saying, "I'm here and I'm a pink elephant" - and there's still doubt and denial that the pink elephant is in the room.

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

[quote=warriorzpath;651157][B]So all of this backstabbing and lack of leadership is a lesser problem to you.[/B]

I think you and a lot of people on here are downplaying too much the importance in leadership. That's the biggest difference in Gibbs and Zorn.. Peyton Manning and Jason Campbell..[/quote]

It's a problem sure, but ask yourself this. What good is leadership when you simply don't have the talent? Specifically on the offensive line. What amount of leadership was going to fix what was one of the worst lines in the entire league?

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

[quote=Buster;651180]Great points, Ruhskins, leadership is not exclusively vocal activity.[/quote]

Yeah, I really get tired of hearing people say player X doesn't get up in anyone's face, doesn't bitch anyone out, etc. Sorry but that's not leadership.

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

I can't help but recall a statement by Thiesmann (I think?) at the beginning of the season... he had brought up that there was some bad stuff brewing in the locker room. Clearly he knew what he was talking about.

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

[quote=warriorzpath;651227]As soon as the season ended, there were players questioning leadership. I think that's evidence enough that there was a lack of leadership.[/quote]

I think those complaints had more to do with lack of leadership from the head coach. Zorn was nothing more than a figure head.

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

[quote=Mattyk;651240]I think those complaints had more to do with lack of leadership from the head coach. Zorn was nothing more than a figure head.[/quote]

No there have been players complaining that there were a lack of leaders from the players themselves.

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

what players?

Re: Jason Campbells response to Portis
 

[quote=warriorzpath;651243]No there have been players complaining that there were a lack of leaders from the players themselves.[/quote]

So I guess we should assume all this chatter is directed towards JC only?