re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

I don't even understand why we're even looking at Peppers. After all the free agent busts you'd think we'd learn. Although very talented he's just not dedicated enough. Nor is he worth the $ he's asking for. We've already got guys that don't work hard. Why put another over paid under producing guy in your locker room??? For once I hope we're trying to build a team that has team chemistry, not buy a team.

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

[quote=DIE-NASTY;667965]The jason taylor signing didn't work because he's not a run-stopping DE. He doubled his production from 08-09 (skins 29 tackles, 3.5 sacks, 1 FF ---Miami42 tackles, 7 sacks, 1 int, 3 FF) because he played OLB in a 3-4. Granted, JT missed time when he played for us but overall he wasn't effective in our system no matter how many games he started or played in. Peppers is 5 years younger and arguably a better athlete. I'd argue he can hack it.

I don't disagree with wanting to go after Rolle. I don't think Bullock will sign a 2 year deal.[/quote]

Bringing in JT was a compete joke and it was a knee jerk reaction on Vinny's part. But I've never heard any of JT's teammates question his desire or say he doesn't care about football. When you've got a few of his current and former teammates saying things about the guy that doesn't sit well w/ me.

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

^ Jason Taylor would have been a great pick up if blanche could be innovative in any sort of way. The coaching lets us down IMO

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

[quote=skinsfan69;667969]I don't even understand why we're even looking at Peppers. After all the free agent busts you'd think we'd learn. Although very talented he's just not dedicated enough. Nor is he worth the $ he's asking for. We've already got guys that don't work hard. Why put another over paid under producing guy in your locker room??? For once I hope we're trying to build a team that has team chemistry, not buy a team.[/quote]

It's a rumor that's being blown way out of proportion. It's not where you should be focusing your energies right now

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

[quote=skinsfan69;667970]Bringing in JT was a compete joke and it was a knee jerk reaction on Vinny's part. But I've never heard any of JT's teammates question his desire or say he doesn't care about football. When you've got a few of his current and former teammates saying things about the guy that doesn't sit well w/ me.[/quote]


Draft a guy then if you want another linemen. AH isn't a bust, but he isn't worth what we are paying him. Peppers will be the same I think. We would get production from him, but not congruent to his asking price.

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

[quote=Lotus;667964]Why is that?[/quote]

Probably because we wouldn't get anything worthwhile for him.

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;667962]given Carters performance last year, i think we could get a 4th for him.[/quote]

Don't forget that big contract...

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

Peppers is a 30 yr old DE. We have the exact same guy in Carter, and a young pass rusher in Orakpo why mess w/ that? It's not that Peppers is declining or a "bad fit" it's that he's not a major need this offseason. There's an arguement that you can't have enough pass rushers [B]but[/B] JP, Orakpo, and Carter are pro bowl players and do the same thing. In a 3-4 Carter's the odd man out. Instead of throwing a fat check at Peppers go after lesser deals like Rolle, Robinson, Pashos, Sproles, and the Center from Denver.

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;668031]Probably because we wouldn't get anything worthwhile for him.[/quote]

Maybe we can't get anything for Carter. But he seems like a square peg in our new defense, so at minimum he'll get well paid to hold his helmet and that won't go on for too long. It would be nice to get something, anything, rather than just turn him loose.

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

[quote=Lotus;668038]Maybe we can't get anything for Carter. But he seems like a square peg in our new defense, so at minimum he'll get well paid to hold his helmet and that won't go on for too long. It would be nice to get something, anything, rather than just turn him loose.[/quote]

Coming off a 12 sack season, Carter's gotta be worth something.

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;667944]The problem with Peppers isn't really the total production, but the spread of it. After four games, the Panthers were 1-3, should have probably been 0-4 without some really fortunate bounces (literally) of the ball against us, and Peppers had basically given his team zero anything over that time frame.

The Panthers finished the season 8-8, three games out of a wild card spot, but with one of the best defenses in the league. Peppers was a large part of that. However, if he had played 16 games with the effort he played the final ten at, the Panthers could have been a playoff team.

The kind of team that has the most to gain from Peppers is the team that would already be a strong playoff team without him, but with him, could contend for the super bowl. New England would really be a good fit. Philadelphia, as well. Chicago maybe a little less so. For us, I think you'd get a monster player for the first 6 or 7 games, and then his production would kind of slip away into the background. Is that worth the money? It might be.[/quote]

Tripp, how would you play Peppers in our team? Even if we put him at OLB opposite Orakpo, those two are not going to be rushing the QB all time, right?

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

[quote=Ruhskins;668044]Tripp, how would you play Peppers in our team? Even if we put him at OLB opposite Orakpo, those two are not going to be rushing the QB all time, right?[/quote]No, there's no way. They'd both come a lot, obviously, but both would be used in combination coverage schemes, particularly with covering blocking backs in man to man coverage and zone coverage in the hook-curl zone. I'd imagine Peppers is more of a raw talent compared to Orakpo, who is more of a strength-technique game. No idea who would play on which side, but a 3-4 defense does really need to be able to apply pressure from either side.

The Cowboys sucked at defense for a long time despite Ware being a rather raw phenom. When Spencer finally became a threat, their defense got really good, really quick.

None of this is to suggest that Carter/Alexander/Wilson aren't capable of being that threat on the other side at 20% of the cost of Peppers. I'm not sold on Peppers, but he'd be (if not Kampman) the guy in the front seven to go for in free agency, if anyone.

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;667877]Does this mean we plan on cutting several big name guys or hoping we can trade them?

Assuming we switch to a 3-4 and Shanahan doesn't like Campbell, i'd love to see:

[B][U]"Big Name" Signings[/U][/B][LIST][*]Karlos Dansby[*]Dunta Robinson[*]Darren Sproels[*]Kevin Walter[/LIST]
[B][U]"Big Name" Cuts[/U][/B][LIST][*]Clinton Portis[*]Randy Thomas[*]Randel El[*]Rock Cartwright[*]Todd Collins[*]Fred Smoot[*]Cornelius Griffin[*]Reynaldo Wynn[/LIST]
[B][U]Traded*[/U][/B][LIST][*]Laron Landry - 3rd and 4th Round Picks[*]Santana Moss - 3rd Round Pick[*]Jason Campbell - 3rd and 4th Round Picks[*]Andre Carter - 4th Round Pick[*]Carlos Rogers - 2nd Round Pick[*]Rocky McIntosh - 4th Round Pick[/LIST]
*I would accept young, promising, zoneblocking offensive linemen in place of draft picks.[/quote]

Perfecto! I'll be sad to see Griff go but there's really no spot for him in the 3-4. Landry will yield 3rd and 4th round picks when I become a billionaire. My guess is Landry will be shopped but the offers will be paltry. Word of all this will get out and Landry will show up even later and less prepared than last season, further deflating his value. Shanny/Allen won't put up w/ Landry's bullsh*t and he'll be traded for peanuts or cut.

...or he could make the surprise leap into adulthood in the next few weeks and realize he needs to get a lot better and cut the showboat crap.

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

[quote=vallin21;668035]Peppers is a 30 yr old DE. We have the exact same guy in Carter, and a young pass rusher in Orakpo why mess w/ that? It's not that Peppers is declining or a "bad fit" it's that he's not a major need this offseason. There's an arguement that you can't have enough pass rushers [B]but[/B] JP, Orakpo, and Carter are pro bowl players and do the same thing. In a 3-4 Carter's the odd man out. Instead of throwing a fat check at Peppers go after lesser deals like Rolle, Robinson, Pashos, Sproles, and the Center from Denver.[/quote]


With all due respect, you are crazy if you think Andre Carter is anywhere near the player that Julius Peppers is.

Carter has never made the Pro-Bowl. Peppers is a 5 time pro-bowler and 2 time all pro.

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;668061]With all due respect, you are crazy if you think Andre Carter is anywhere near the player that Julius Peppers is.

Carter has never made the Pro-Bowl. Peppers is a 5 time pro-bowler and 2 time all pro.[/quote]

London Fletcher is a one time pro bowl alternate. Michael Vick is a 2 or 3 time pro bowler. Honestly pro bowl selections are overrated.

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;668061]With all due respect, you are crazy if you think Andre Carter is anywhere near the player that Julius Peppers is.

Carter has never made the Pro-Bowl. Peppers is a 5 time pro-bowler and 2 time all pro.[/quote]
I was just about to say the same thing. I don't really understand why people think that EVERY free agent is all of the sudden a bum and no better than average players when we are (allegedly) considering them.

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

[quote=Ruhskins;668041]Coming off a 12 sack season, Carter's gotta be worth something.[/quote]

carolina could be interested.

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

Why go for Peppers in the first place? Priority one is rebuild the O line. We should be talking about FA O linemen. There are so many D linemen studs in the draft that we should just draft one. Forget Peppers. I mean pay a shitload of dough for a guy that isn't going to be around all that long and might not produce as expected? Get a young rook that has something to prove to get that big resigning in 4 years.

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

id rather draft OL than sign over the hill FA OL.

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;668067]London Fletcher is a one time pro bowl alternate. Michael Vick is a 2 or 3 time pro bowler. Honestly pro bowl selections are overrated.[/quote]

lol snap. He just killed that argument haha

[quote=GusFrerotte;668076]Why go for Peppers in the first place? Priority one is rebuild the O line. We should be talking about FA O linemen. There are so many D linemen studs in the draft that we should just draft one. Forget Peppers. I mean pay a shitload of dough for a guy that isn't going to be around all that long and might not produce as expected? Get a young rook that has something to prove to get that big resigning in 4 years.[/quote]

Just because we need to rebuild our Oline doesnt mean we cant sign ppl to play other positions lol. Im against signing Peppers however i AM NOT against signing anybody on defense cuz of how bad our Oline is. We have alot of problem areas we need to fill. The more we do that in FA the better prepared we will be for a good draft

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

[quote=Mattyk;667518]Alexander "slimmed down" to about 275 last year to play DE, so he wouldn't have much to lose to fit into the LB mold.[/quote]

I've always been a fan of those who are rarely decorated, will do what it takes to deliver results

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

Peppers’ representatives met with Bears over weekend
Posted: March 2nd, 2010 | Adam Rank | Tags: Aaron Kampman, Chicago Bears, Julius Peppers, Philadelphia Eagles

Representatives for defensive end Julius Peppers met with the Bears over the weekend, according to a report from Chicago Breaking Sports News.

NFL Network’s Jason La Canfora reported last week that the Bears are expected to make a huge push to sign Peppers. But it will cost a lot. Peppers was seeking $40 million in guaranteed money from the Panthers. La Canfora also reports that the Bears could be targeting Packers free-agent Aaron Kampman if Peppers falls through.

The Eagles are also reportedly targeting Peppers.


I really don't see us signing him.

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

[quote=SOUL-SKINS;668160]Peppers’ representatives met with Bears over weekend
Posted: March 2nd, 2010 | Adam Rank | Tags: Aaron Kampman, Chicago Bears, Julius Peppers, Philadelphia Eagles

Representatives for defensive end Julius Peppers met with the Bears over the weekend, according to a report from Chicago Breaking Sports News.

NFL Network’s Jason La Canfora reported last week that the Bears are expected to make a huge push to sign Peppers. But it will cost a lot. Peppers was seeking $40 million in guaranteed money from the Panthers. La Canfora also reports that the Bears could be targeting Packers free-agent Aaron Kampman if Peppers falls through.

The Eagles are also reportedly targeting Peppers.


I really don't see us signing him.[/quote]

The Bears save us again! I so don't want this guy.

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

He makes more sense for the Bears, but let's be honest, if the Skins want him, they will get him. It's not going to be about some team "saving" the Skins from themselves, whatever that really means.

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;668067]London Fletcher is a one time pro bowl alternate. Michael Vick is a 2 or 3 time pro bowler. Honestly pro bowl selections are overrated.[/quote]

That is because for a few years Michael Vick was a better player than Fletcher.

Vick was a legitimate MVP candidate.

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

[quote=Longtimefan;667932]If by chance he did come here, the talk of moving him to an outside linebacker position is insane IMO . First I can't imagine him playing in space, or being on the plus side of thirty embracing a new and totally diferent position.

There's talk of moving other players to unfamaliar positions with the idea in mind of utilizing the 3-4 as the base defense, some of these concepts have me scratching my head.[/quote]

Peppers has been wanting to go to a 3-4 for the last couple of years. He wants to be able to stand and rush the QB. However, he hates dropping in coverage. So he has a problem with just about any D you put him in, unless you allow him to stand and rush 100% of the time. Peppers is VERY VERY athletic and if he gave 100% on the field and off the field he would be one of the best OLB in the league. However, Peppers just doesn't have the motivation to play 100% all the time.

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;667950]if we end up going 3-4, i think we'll do everything we can to trade Carter.[/quote]


Carter has experience in the 3-4, played pretty decent in it at San Fran. I am not sure how he would be used in the 3-4 here, as an OLB or DE, but I think he would be productive. Again however, Orakpo is the focus of the D and he has to be the guy applying the pressure mostly, so I am leary of using Carter on the OLB position as he would be beaten unmercifully in coverage. I think we have a lot of questions about this D and little answers right now.

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;668049]No, there's no way. They'd both come a lot, obviously, but both would be used in combination coverage schemes, particularly with covering blocking backs in man to man coverage and zone coverage in the hook-curl zone. I'd imagine Peppers is more of a raw talent compared to Orakpo, who is more of a strength-technique game. No idea who would play on which side, but a 3-4 defense does really need to be able to apply pressure from either side.

The Cowboys sucked at defense for a long time despite Ware being a rather raw phenom. When Spencer finally became a threat, their defense got really good, really quick.

None of this is to suggest that Carter/Alexander/Wilson aren't capable of being that threat on the other side at 20% of the cost of Peppers. I'm not sold on Peppers, but he'd be (if not Kampman) the guy in the front seven to go for in free agency, if anyone.[/quote]



I have said for the last couple of years that I would give Wilson a shot. I think he is a perfect fit for the OLB in a 3-4 base defense. When the guy gets on the field, which isn't a ton, he always seems to be around the QB.

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

I agree with you on Wilson. He's done whatever's been asked of him here, and 3-4 OLB seems like the best place for him. Right now, Wilson-Fletcher-Dansby-Orakpo would be my starting ideal starting LB lineup.

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

What about Rocky? We just put a tender on him and let him go for a pick or 2 if we are lucky. Rocky, fletch, Dansby, Rak sounds better to me than having Wilson on the "Weak side".

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

[quote=#56fanatic;668177]Carter has experience in the 3-4, played pretty decent in it at San Fran. I am not sure how he would be used in the 3-4 here, as an OLB or DE, but I think he would be productive. Again however, Orakpo is the focus of the D and he has to be the guy applying the pressure mostly, so I am leary of using Carter on the OLB position as he would be beaten unmercifully in coverage. I think we have a lot of questions about this D and little answers right now.[/quote]

Umm no, carter did not play good in the 3-4, thats why he came here to be in the 4-3/San Fran didn't want to resign him when he became a FA, because he didn't fit their plans. Carters even said "I'm better when my hands on the ground, in a 3 point stance"

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

i certainly think we're asking for problems if we have both carter and haynesworth playing positions they have no desire to play. in theory, i like the 3-4, but i think we're not going to get good production from carter or haynesworth if thats our base defense.

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

There are many variations of the 3-4, just because Carter didn't play well in SF's scheme it doesn't mean he can't succeed here.

I still don't understand the assumption that AH #1 doesn't want to play the nose, and #2 wouldn't be successful doing so. It's not like he wouldn't also play DE as well depending on the situation.

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

[quote=Mattyk;668228]There are many variations of the 3-4, just because Carter didn't play well in SF's scheme it doesn't mean he can't succeed here.

I still don't understand the assumption that AH #1 doesn't want to play the nose, and #2 wouldn't be successful doing so. It's not like he wouldn't also play DE as well depending on the situation.[/quote]


That makes sense. Just because Albert is listed as the nose doesn't mean he won't be playing nose and both DE spots depending on the situation. Also, Haslett has coached a 4-3 as well so it sounds like we will be playing some of that too.

The biggest thing that I am happy to hear is that the defense will be more complex which Phat Al should be happy about. There is no more "Ok, you are a DT in a 4-3 and you are in charge of your gaps, end of story". We have some dynamic players in our front 7 and it sounds like we want one or two more. So lets customize the defense to our players strengths instead of forcing the players to fit in the scheme.

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

[quote=Mattyk;668228]There are many variations of the 3-4, just because Carter didn't play well in SF's scheme it doesn't mean he can't succeed here.

[B]I still don't understand the assumption that AH #1 doesn't want to play the nose[/B], and #2 wouldn't be successful doing so. It's not like he wouldn't also play DE as well depending on the situation.[/quote]

You are correct in hesitating on that. No one really knows.

But since AH complained of being restricted by Blache's scheme, and since most nose tackle jobs are more restrictive still, I have supposed that he would be unhappy in the role.

Then again, some 3-4 nose tackles play a more penetrating style and are not expected to be cloggers. If we play him that way, he may be happy.

As for Carter, he flat-out said that he wants his hand on the ground. Given this and his history in SF, I find it hard to foresee him flourishing in any 3-4 set-up which Haslett might concoct.

:twocents:

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

[quote=Lotus;668240]You are correct in hesitating on that. No one really knows.

But since AH complained of being restricted by Blache's scheme, and since most nose tackle jobs are more restrictive still, I have supposed that he would be unhappy in the role.

Then again, some 3-4 nose tackles play a more penetrating style and are not expected to be cloggers. If we play him that way, he may be happy.

As for Carter, he flat-out said that he wants his hand on the ground. Given this and his history in SF, I find it hard to foresee him flourishing in any 3-4 set-up which Haslett might concoct.

:twocents:[/quote]

Did AC say that recently?

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

[quote=Mattyk;668228]There are many variations of the 3-4, just because Carter didn't play well in SF's scheme it doesn't mean he can't succeed here.

I still don't understand the assumption that AH #1 doesn't want to play the nose, and #2 wouldn't be successful doing so. It's not like he wouldn't also play DE as well depending on the situation.[/quote]

Indeed, Haslett mentioned in an interview that he thought that Carter would like what they'd do with him vs his previous experience in the 3-4

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

We dont need a DE we need a another LB I like Dansby from the Cardinals. He is only 28 and Peppers is 30 yrs old. we must remember Fletcher is getting long in the tooth as well. I also would not mind us going after Dunta Robinson CB from Texans. Rogers than can be traded for at least a 3rd and 7th round pick.

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

[quote=tryfuhl;668495]Indeed, Haslett mentioned in an interview that he thought that Carter would like what they'd do with him vs his previous experience in the 3-4[/quote]

No, your both wrong just read what this says about Carter.

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/free-agency/redskins-are-likely-to-make-to.html#more]Redskins Insider - Redskins are likely to make to make high-profile roster cuts[/url]

re: Peppers signs with the Bears (updated - again)
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;668878]No, your both wrong just read what this says about Carter.

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/free-agency/redskins-are-likely-to-make-to.html#more]Redskins Insider - Redskins are likely to make to make high-profile roster cuts[/url][/quote]

Well this is just speculation, so we'll see. Although if Carter does have the same opinion about being OLB in the 3-4 as he did in SF, then I can see him being released.