Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

This has turned into a damned [URL="http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d8176a398/Deion-on-Donovan"]shibacle[/URL]

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

[quote=Defensewins;686455]How is that a measure of how things will shakeout? It is a voluntary camp and he has already said he will not be there.
When Allen or Shanahan talk about changing the status quo we are talking about level of play, level of coaching and winning. Working out together, sitting in a circle, holding hands and singing Kumbaya is not going make us a better team.
There is no magical team summer workout or team togetherness activity that is going to make us a better team.
If Haynesworth were a QB or offensive skill position then I see the need for him to be here. But to see him decide which gap to take in a non-contact drill is pointless. He is a DL not a rocket scientist.
[B]It is funny how Farve (a QB) can skip everything, summer workouts, training camp and preseason; show up for one preseason game and nobody in the press calls him a cancer. [/B]
But when Haynesworth skips volunteer shit he is called a cancer.
Double standard?[/quote]

Actually as I remember it, virtually every pundit was calling him out for being a distraction, Diva, etc. AND several former head coaches iterated similar things as well as "if he played for me...he'd be GONE mentalities".
AND, AND if........Big Al is going to have ME problems that possibly could interfere with what MS and BA are building, I would ship his ass out on the first reasonable trade offer...........

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

[quote=Defensewins;686455]How is that a measure of how things will shakeout? It is a voluntary camp and he has already said he will not be there.
When Allen or Shanahan talk about changing the status quo we are talking about level of play, level of coaching and winning. Working out together, sitting in a circle, holding hands and singing Kumbaya is not going make us a better team.
There is no magical team summer workout or team togetherness activity that is going to make us a better team.
If Haynesworth were a QB or offensive skill position then I see the need for him to be here. But to see him decide which gap to take in a non-contact drill is pointless. He is a DL not a rocket scientist.
It is funny how Farve (a QB) can skip everything, summer workouts, training camp and preseason; show up for one preseason game and nobody in the press calls him a cancer.
But when Haynesworth skips volunteer shit he is called a cancer.
Double standard?[/quote]

Well this is pretty easy to answer. Because Favre's head coach publicly said he can take as much time as he wants.

What have the Redskins won with Al? What was our record last year? What was Favre's record last year? How many Super Bowls has Al been to? It isn't a double standard because Al hasn't earned special treatment.

His coach wants him there and he can't be a team player even though he just made 21 million. That is why it is a problem.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

it's incredible to me how people can't see that Haynesworth, though a talented athlete, is being selfish in this instance. And he's coming across with the very attitude that has hindered the franchise in years past. That's was so wrong about it to me. Sure it's his RIGHT to work out with his personal trainer, but that still doesn't make it [I]alright. [/I]

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

Im just curious, i just read that Haynesworth has been placed on the tradeblock per an article on yahoo. So are we looking to move him or not?

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=nfp-source_mardy_gilyard_to_visit_the_redskins_on_monday_html-201049]Source: Mardy Gilyard to visit the Redskins on Monday - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;686286]Unfortunately Shanahan is a 3-4 guy, he's trying to get the appropriate player for that scheme, Haynesworth just doesn't want to switch to NT. Can't blame AH since when he signed he specified a 4-3 D. There was nothing wrong with running a 4-3 which Shanahan should have kept and everyone would be happy.[/quote]

Good point......That's why I'm hoping Kemo will be ready to go at some point during training camp, maybe that will take a little of the pressure off if Haynesworth is still here.

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

[quote=SBXVII;684935]Schefter is a pretty accurate media source. However it's not the fact that the Skins are not actively shopping AH right now thats the issue, it's the fact the Skins even tried period.

The Eagles say the Skins tried to shop AH in the deal for McNabb. That was after March 31st. So was there a first offering prior to March 31st with AH shopped to them and they refused, or is everyone lieing about the fact that the deal started 4 days prior to Easter Sun.?

or was AH shopped to another team prior to March 31st and for who or why was he shopped?

Lastely if AH was shopped goes to show the team is not at odds about trading AH even though he supposedly has not been shopped since March 31st.[/quote]


Exactly, what do the Eagles gain from lying about AH being shopped during the McNabb acquisition? And if they aren't lying about March 31, does that mean he was on the block during talks prior to March 31? This is just damage control/ disinformation. Sort of silly if you ask me. Everyone knows AH isn't a 3-4 guy and probably wasn't happy about Haslett's move to the 3-4. I expect some rather interesting scenarios coming on draft day.

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;686286]Unfortunately Shanahan is a 3-4 guy, he's trying to get the appropriate player for that scheme, Haynesworth just doesn't want to switch to NT. Can't blame AH since when he signed he specified a 4-3 D. [B]There was nothing wrong with running a 4-3 which Shanahan should have kept and everyone would be happy[/B].[/quote]

That's not how it works though.

A new head coach (especially an established and successful one) means new systems, new players, and a new culture.

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

I'm sorry but this is a tired old subject. As I said in a previous post, the most important word here is simply "anymore".

The shopping is over. The defense is being constructed WITH Big Al.

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

[quote=Mattyk;686487]That's not how it works though.

A new head coach (especially an established and successful one) means new systems, new players, and a new culture.[/quote]

While I agree with you about "that is the way it is", anyone with knowledge of systems science knows that using a prescriptive solution to a complex problem rarely yields good results.

If the Redskins succeed, it will be because the coaches fit an appropriate methodology to the system (players, culture, contracts, playbook, politics, money, egos...). This will require the coaches to re-evaluate their methods as much as the players will.

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

Joe Gibbs was probably the most respected HC the Redskins have ever had. Not only that, a coach that has actually accomplished something with the organization. He had a situation with Sean Taylor one off-season very reminiscent to what we're seeing now with Haynesworth, Sean refused to even return Gibbs's calls but he didn't hold a grudge against him because he wasn't here, he continued to show him the utmost respect, and it was never more evident than in his passing.

Shanahan so far has done absolutely nothing for the Redskins, while I respect what he has accomplished elsewhere we're riding a hope that his previous success will translate to Washington. If the best HC we've ever had has the know-how to deal with sometimes uncooperative players without creating a frenzy, Shanahan should be able to do the same. I can understand what he's trying to accomplish but there may be a better way of going about it.

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

[quote=Longtimefan;686497]Joe Gibbs was probably the most respected HC the Redskins have ever had. Not only that, a coach that has actually accomplished something with the organization. He had a situation with Sean Taylor one off-season very reminiscent to what we're seeing now with Haynesworth, Sean refused to even return Gibbs's calls but he didn't hold a grudge against him because he wasn't here, he continued to show him the utmost respect, and it was never more evident than in his passing.

Shanahan so far has done absolutely nothing for the Redskins, while I respect what he has accomplished elsewhere we're riding a hope that his previous success will translate to Washington. If the best HC we've ever had has the know-how to deal with sometimes uncooperative players without creating a frenzy, Shanahan should be able to do the same. I can understand what he's trying to accomplish but there may be a better way of going about it.[/quote]

One thing for sure, Shanahan is no Gibbs and never will, actually nobody will ever be like Gibbs.

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

[quote=Longtimefan;686497]Joe Gibbs was probably the most respected HC the Redskins have ever had. Not only that, a coach that has actually accomplished something with the organization. He had a situation with Sean Taylor one off-season very reminiscent to what we're seeing now with Haynesworth, Sean refused to even return Gibbs's calls but he didn't hold a grudge against him because he wasn't here, he continued to show him the utmost respect, and it was never more evident than in his passing.

Shanahan so far has done absolutely nothing for the Redskins, while I respect what he has accomplished elsewhere we're riding a hope that his previous success will translate to Washington. If the best HC we've ever had has the know-how to deal with sometimes uncooperative players without creating a frenzy, Shanahan should be able to do the same. I can understand what he's trying to accomplish but there may be a better way of going about it.[/quote]

Joe Gibbs 2.0 wasn't anything like the first go around.

Shanahan was brought in to correct the mistakes of the last two or three administrations. If the players feel like they make the rules, then the team will be no different and the results will be the same.

I don't think Shanahan and Allen have any intention of allowing the previous mistakes to be repeated.

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

Mardy Gilyard? I doubt we go after a WR...but right now i'm totally clueless as to what we are going to do. I honestly want the HOTEL here ASAP to anchor our line...well maybe not anchor...but be better than Heyer!

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;686505]Joe Gibbs 2.0 wasn't anything like the first go around.

Shanahan was brought in to correct the mistakes of the last two or three administrations. If the players feel like they make the rules, then the team will be no different and the results will be the same.

I don't think Shanahan and Allen have any intention of allowing the previous mistakes to be repeated.[/quote]

In Gibbs 2.0 he didn't have the energy and drive of the Gibbs 1.0, still he made the franchise respectable again and took the team to 2 playoffs. Let's see what Shanahan can do before we crown him as the savior.

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;686508]In Gibbs 2.0 he didn't have the energy and drive of the Gibbs 1.0, still he made the franchise respectable again and took the team to 2 playoffs. Let's see what Shanahan can do before we crown him as the savior.[/quote]


No one is badmouthing St. Joe and yes he brought some respectability. I would argue that Joe was still a great motivator it is just that too many awful personnel moves led to his return falling way short of the unrealistic expectations.

I am not calling Shanahan a savior. I would rather refer to him as the Drillsergeant.

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;686505]Joe Gibbs 2.0 wasn't anything like the first go around.

Shanahan was brought in to correct the mistakes of the last two or three administrations. If the players feel like they make the rules, then the team will be no different and the results will be the same.

I don't think Shanahan and Allen have any intention of allowing the previous mistakes to be repeated.[/quote]

Except for the fact there's no one in violation of the rule. In this particular case, the player is completely within his rights to do what he's doing. Granted the coach might not like it, but his response cannot be a childish one if he intends to lead. Respect is a double edge sword, you have to give it to get it.

Shanahan and Allen may be concerned about the players repeating the mistakes of the past, but I'm more concerned about them repeating past mistakes.

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

Agreed Longtimefan

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

[quote=12thMan;686481]it's incredible to me how people can't see that Haynesworth, though a talented athlete, is being selfish in this instance. And he's coming across with the very attitude that has hindered the franchise in years past. That's was so wrong about it to me. Sure it's his RIGHT to work out with his personal trainer, but that still doesn't make it [I]alright. [/I][/quote]

Is it alright for Rocky McIntosh to work out with his personal trainer?

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

[quote=Longtimefan;686519]Except for the fact there's no one in violation of the rule. In this particular case, the player is completely within his rights to do what he's doing. Granted the coach might not like it, but his response cannot be a childish one if he intends to lead. Respect is a double edge sword, you have to give it to get it.

Shanahan and Allen may be concerned about the players repeating the mistakes of the past, but I'm more concerned about them repeating past mistakes.[/quote]

1st of all, I don't like Albert Haynesworth. That's my preface. This is a great post, LTF. 100% agree. I love that Shanny/Allen want to lay down the law. But I don't want them to do it like a 8 year old throwing a temper tantrum and stomping his feet with his fingers in his ears.

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

As I called it. No the "Team is not shopping AH." But they will entertain all trade offers. Per Shanahan himself. Big play on words. They can claim to deny shopping him but their available to anyone to wants to talk to them about him.

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

The media is reporting that Fatal Bert will remain a Redskin, report to mandetory traing camp (duh) and play nose takle. You cannot tell me that Fatal Bert does not see these reports. It seems like the front office is sending a message to Fatal Bert. It is either the truth or some type of ill willed propaganda directed to Fatal Bert. I hope the coach gets Fatal Bert out in the nose tackle position and rubs his nose in it like I did to my dog last night. All I can picture in my mind when I think of Fatal Bert is the stupid look on his face that the media has been showing in the last couple of weeks, looks like he has gas.

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

Not sure I'm buying "Fatal Bert"

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

The rights of a player and the success of a francise do not necessarliy compliment one another. Big A may have the right to......train somewhere else, but that may not be contributing to the success of the Redskins.
To much ME, not enough WE.
Big A would be in a much better position to proclaim "I know best" if he had, had a breakout year last year.............he didn't. The general concensus is that he was out of shape, and as a result took plays off, faked on field injuries, had to come out of the game frequently.
That would put the ball in Shanny's court as Big A cannot be trusted to stay in shape over the offseason....perhaps Shanny can fix that? Except that Big A is......not there.
[B]Important safety tip:[/B] If........BIG A is going to be an attitude problem..........lose him....and anyone else like him

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

[quote=SmootSmack;686578]Not sure I'm buying "Fatal Bert"[/quote]
Yeah, that was pretty lame..

Let Albert come in and be productive this season-even with him being a pain in the ass this offseason-and move on from him in 2011. If he plays well, is a good soldier and regains his past form-he will be far more valuable in a trade than he is now coming off of a sub par, injury filled season and a public pissing match vs. the new coach.

Shanahan won't forget this but he probably won't be able to get value at this point in time.

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

[quote=SmootSmack;686538]Is it alright for Rocky McIntosh to work out with his personal trainer?[/quote]

No but don't we want to trade him also?:)

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

Trade him to Oakland... ye, that's the ticket! giggity!

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

its too late not to trade him he will be gone in the next 12 days and we will bring in marshall

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

[quote=RememberRFK;686650]Trade him to Oakland... ye, that's the ticket! giggity![/quote]

They've got some good LB's (Howard, Morrison), CB Asomugha, RB Michael Bush, any combination of player/players and draft pick/picks would do.

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;686657]They've got some good LB's (Howard, Morrison), CB Asomugha, RB Michael Bush, any combination of player/players and draft pick/picks would do.[/quote]

maybe the #8 pick

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

AH and JC to the raiders for asomugha and picks

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

That would be schweet !

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

on 106.7 the fan there was a rumor that the lions might trade the #2 pick overall for AH because the next 3 seasons he would be making 16 mil instead of signing a rookie to a huge contract

this could actually happen because the lions might not want to pay another player top 5 money

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

[quote=RememberRFK;686577]The media is reporting that Fatal Bert will remain a Redskin, report to mandetory traing camp (duh) and play nose takle. You cannot tell me that Fatal Bert does not see these reports. It seems like the front office is sending a message to Fatal Bert. It is either the truth or some type of ill willed propaganda directed to Fatal Bert. I hope the coach gets Fatal Bert out in the nose tackle position and rubs his nose in it like I did to my dog last night. All I can picture in my mind when I think of Fatal Bert is the stupid look on his face that the media has been showing in the last couple of weeks, looks like he has gas.[/quote]

Not a big fan, huh. Either way he is arguably the best player on the team and there is no question that the team is better with him on the field.

He is being selfish and approaching this wrong but he is still the most dominant defensive lineman in the game and he is one of the few players we have worth the price of the ticket.

Hopefully, they will utilize his strengths and have real success this year. Winning games will make all of this stuff disappear.

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

[quote=TheBackupKicker;686665]on 106.7 the fan there was a rumor that the lions might trade the #2 pick overall for AH because the next 3 seasons he would be making 16 mil instead of signing a rookie to a huge contract

this could actually happen because the lions might not want to pay another player top 5 money[/quote]

This would allow us to trade for Marshall, though I would prefer to trade one of these pics to gain more pics

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

[quote=Dr Do Itch Big;686671]This would allow us to trade for Marshall, though I would prefer to trade one of these pics to gain more pics[/quote]


I think there going to trade the 2011 1st for marshall

if we could do this trade it would be suh/okung or berry/okung

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

[quote=TheBackupKicker;686662]AH and JC to the raiders for asomugha and picks[/quote]

Too much. Thats just too much! Don't get me wrong, the idea of having Asomugha on one side and Hall on the other is insane, like Green and Mayhew or hte ORIGINAL smoot and springs... but that cost is too high. Giving up the 2nd pick already shows that the draft is not how we plan to build. To trade JC and a 3rd or 4th for Asomugha would be good, especialy since JC is miles beyond either of the crappy qbs they have. Though he was pounded and crushed a lot early in the game, he stelled into the pocked and he picked apart their defense... where as their QBs got sacked 7 times, 4 of which by Orakpo and couln't match our far from stellar offense.

Big Al is one of my favorite guys on our awesome defense. he said that he didn't think he could "survive another season in this system if it stays the way it is."

News flash... it's NOT gonna stay the same scheme, so why drop Haynesworth if he's one of the biggest contributers!?! Our defensive weakness is our secondary. Our running defense WITH him is OUTSTANDING!!! unless we can get a NEW Haynesworth in the draft that will pay us the 21mill we'd lose in trading him, we need to not only KEEP him, but play to HIS stregnths! you don't turn Vick into a pocket passer, you don't turn Peyton Manning into a scrambler, then why have Laron play Free Safety, trying to be Sean Taylor when he excels best at Strong Safety!? Why settle for 11 sacks with Orakpo when you can have him DO WHAT HE DOES BEST and get WHO KNOWS how many sacks and tackles for loss!??!!

Some people here need to wake up and stop focusing on the fact that Albert complained and START looking at what he complained ABOUT! Albert is the man and he did what our coordinator wanted him to do. he got as many sacks as he could in that particular defense and you know what, maybe you should think of how GOOD he will be in our new defense. Lets assume that the new guy can actually USE the amazing talent we have and focus on fixing what IS broken... our backfield!

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

[quote=Beneil (diehard since 87);686678]Too much. Thats just too much! Don't get me wrong, the idea of having Asomugha on one side and Hall on the other is insane, like Green and Mayhew or hte ORIGINAL smoot and springs... but that cost is too high. Giving up the 2nd pick already shows that the draft is not how we plan to build. To trade JC and a 3rd or 4th for Asomugha would be good, especialy since JC is miles beyond either of the crappy qbs they have. Though he was pounded and crushed a lot early in the game, he stelled into the pocked and he picked apart their defense... where as their QBs got sacked 7 times, 4 of which by Orakpo and couln't match our far from stellar offense.

Big Al is one of my favorite guys on our awesome defense. he said that he didn't think he could "survive another season in this system if it stays the way it is."

News flash... it's NOT gonna stay the same scheme, so why drop Haynesworth if he's one of the biggest contributers!?! Our defensive weakness is our secondary. Our running defense WITH him is OUTSTANDING!!! unless we can get a NEW Haynesworth in the draft that will pay us the 21mill we'd lose in trading him, we need to not only KEEP him, but play to HIS stregnths! you don't turn Vick into a pocket passer, you don't turn Peyton Manning into a scrambler, then why have Laron play Free Safety, trying to be Sean Taylor when he excels best at Strong Safety!? Why settle for 11 sacks with Orakpo when you can have him DO WHAT HE DOES BEST and get WHO KNOWS how many sacks and tackles for loss!??!!

Some people here need to wake up and stop focusing on the fact that Albert complained and START looking at what he complained ABOUT! Albert is the man and he did what our coordinator wanted him to do. he got as many sacks as he could in that particular defense and you know what, maybe you should think of how GOOD he will be in our new defense. Lets assume that the new guy can actually USE the amazing talent we have and focus on fixing what IS broken... our backfield![/quote]


The Raiders had Asomugha and Hall and were getting their ass kicked.

Comparable to Smoot and Springs?

JC and a 3rd or 4th for the best corner in the league? Dawg...Crack kills, put down the pipe.

I do agree with you that we should hold on to Godzilla, even though he is extremely selfish.

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

[quote=Beneil (diehard since 87);686678]Too much. Thats just too much! Don't get me wrong, the idea of having Asomugha on one side and Hall on the other is insane, like Green and Mayhew or hte ORIGINAL smoot and springs... but that cost is too high. Giving up the 2nd pick already shows that the draft is not how we plan to build. To trade JC and a 3rd or 4th for Asomugha would be good, especialy since JC is miles beyond either of the crappy qbs they have. Though he was pounded and crushed a lot early in the game, he stelled into the pocked and he picked apart their defense... where as their QBs got sacked 7 times, 4 of which by Orakpo and couln't match our far from stellar offense.

Big Al is one of my favorite guys on our awesome defense. he said that he didn't think he could "survive another season in this system if it stays the way it is."

News flash... it's NOT gonna stay the same scheme, so why drop Haynesworth if he's one of the biggest contributers!?! Our defensive weakness is our secondary. Our running defense WITH him is OUTSTANDING!!! unless we can get a NEW Haynesworth in the draft that will pay us the 21mill we'd lose in trading him, we need to not only KEEP him, but play to HIS stregnths! you don't turn Vick into a pocket passer, you don't turn Peyton Manning into a scrambler, then why have Laron play Free Safety, trying to be Sean Taylor when he excels best at Strong Safety!? Why settle for 11 sacks with Orakpo when you can have him DO WHAT HE DOES BEST and get WHO KNOWS how many sacks and tackles for loss!??!!

Some people here need to wake up and stop focusing on the fact that Albert complained and START looking at what he complained ABOUT! Albert is the man and he did what our coordinator wanted him to do. he got as many sacks as he could in that particular defense and you know what, maybe you should think of how GOOD he will be in our new defense. Lets assume that the new guy can actually USE the amazing talent we have and focus on fixing what IS broken... our backfield![/quote]


we dont have a 3rd and no way in hell are we trading anymore picks this year so to get aso, AH would have to be invovled

i know AH is a beast at DT but he has no interest to play in the 3-4 and we just paid his fat ass 21 mil and he wont even show up to workouts. shanny wants his leaders there. also with AH getting paid only 16 mil the next 3 seasons and in his prime a bunch of teams should be in line and calling the skins

Re: Schefter: "Skins NOT shopping Big Al"
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;686681]The Raiders had Asomugha and Hall and were getting their ass kicked.

Comparable to Smoot and Springs?

JC and a 3rd or 4th for the best corner in the league? Dawg...Crack kills, put down the pipe.

I do agree with you that we should hold on to Godzilla, even though he is extremely selfish.[/quote]


aso is way better than carlos