Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=firstdown;697732]I would agree that they come here for a better life but I think we are really talking about two different groups of Mexicans. One group goes through what it takes to do it the legal way to establish a place for their family so they have a better life. The other group are the illegals that come here to make money and ship it home so their family has a better life. The second group is the one that takes away jobs and resources because everything they do is done under the table.[/quote]

I really don't think it's that cut and dry. One of the main issues we haven't adequately dealt with is the INS; The path to citizenship for immigrants is broken and outdated. And so many of these people have to wait years in line, for a variety of reasons, to become legal citizens. We need to reform the system as much as we need to deal with the border issue, undocumented workers, and people that have overstayed their visas. That's why this Arizona law is a band aid at best. It's all about "catching people", but does nothing to curb the the influx of people coming across the border or encourage legal citizenship.

There has to be action at the federal level to cut at the root of the issue. But then we, too, need to know how to deal with those who have been here for years, raised families in earnest, and want to become legal citizens.

The longer we become a nation of immigrants, legal and illegal, the more difficult it will be to solve the problem. I think we can and should put millions of people on a fast track to citizenship by overhauling the INS.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

Not sure I understand what the problem is. If someone is speeding, police can ask them for ID. If they are here illegally then they are in trouble.

All of the other countries of the world have consequences for illegally entering their jurisdiction. Now, most are very severe and i'd like to think we're better than countries that issue sentences like 12 years of hard labor. The fact is the US politicians really don't care who's here.

There's a process for one to gain entry to the US and we have to honor that. I'd like to think there will come a time where folks who gain access to the US actually get in some trouble or are at least sent back home.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=mredskins;697744]I am really not trying to debate at all, I felt like I was agreeing :confused:

I just want to make a point you don't have to be all rolled up in Beverly Hills to be considered successful.[/quote]

My bad. I completely mistook your response. Sorry

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;697754]My bad. I completely mistook your response. Sorry[/quote]


No worries and thanks for the lady liberty words. :headbange

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=12thMan;697750]I really don't think it's that cut and dry. One of the main issues we haven't adequately dealt with is the INS; The path to citizenship for immigrants is broken and outdated. And so many of these people have to wait years in line, for a variety of reasons, to become legal citizens. We need to reform the system as much as we need to deal with the border issue, undocumented workers, and people that have overstayed their visas. That's why this Arizona law is a band aid at best. It's all about "catching people", but does nothing to curb the the influx of people coming across the border or encourage legal citizenship.

There has to be action at the federal level to cut at the root of the issue. But then we, too, need to know how to deal with those who have been here for years, raised families in earnest, and want to become legal citizens.


The longer we become a nation of immigrants, legal and illegal, the more difficult it will be to solve the problem. I think we can and should put millions of people on a fast track to citizenship by overhauling the INS.[/quote]
Back in 2002 they did a study and the cost to fast path all illegals would cost us billions each year to the tune of about 7,500 per person (maybe thats per family). Last time I check we did not have any money left so I guess we can just throw that on our children along with everything else. The AZ law is going to help fix the problem there but your right this is more of a federal issue.

This is a good read for what the cost for illegals back in 2002 so I'm guessing these numbers are low.
[URL="http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html"][COLOR=#810081]Center for Immigration Studies[/COLOR][/URL]

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=redsk1;697753]Not sure I understand what the problem is. If someone is speeding, police can ask them for ID. If they are here illegally then they are in trouble.

All of the other countries of the world have consequences for illegally entering their jurisdiction. Now, most are very severe and i'd like to think we're better than countries that issue sentences like 12 years of hard labor. The fact is the US politicians really don't care who's here.

There's a process for one to gain entry to the US and we have to honor that. I'd like to think there will come a time where folks who gain access to the US actually get in some trouble or are at least sent back home.[/quote]

Well, if they are legal they still have to show papers. Why should someone --anyone-- who's a legal citizen have to show papers? And if you don't see anything wrong with that, then you see nothing wrong with this law.

I'm no legal expert, not even close. But the way I understand the law, say you have 10 (or whatever number) Mexicans in front of your business loitering or just minding their own business. A citizen can pick up the phone and order a cruiser to "investigate" the situation. And if the cops refuse the police department can be sued by said citizen.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=12thMan;697765]Well, if they are legal they still have to show papers. Why should someone --anyone-- who's a legal citizen have to show papers? And if you don't see anything wrong with that, then you see nothing wrong with this law.

I'm no legal expert, not even close. But the way I understand the law, say you have 10 (or whatever number) Mexicans in front of your business loitering or just minding their own business. A citizen can pick up the phone and order a cruiser to "investigate" the situation. And if the cops refuse the police department can be sued by said citizen.[/quote]

If they are just hanging out and breaking no laws then the cops don't have to act. I guess you need to know the loitering laws for AZ to answer your question.

This is a good read for what the cost for illegals back in 2002 so I'm guessing these numbers are low.
[URL="http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html"][COLOR=#810081]Center for Immigration Studies[/COLOR][/URL]

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=12thMan;697765]Well, if they are legal they still have to show papers. Why should someone --anyone-- who's a legal citizen have to show papers? And if you don't see anything wrong with that, then you see nothing wrong with this law.

I'm no legal expert, not even close. But the way I understand the law, say you have 10 (or whatever number) Mexicans in front of your business loitering or just minding their own business. A citizen can pick up the phone and order a cruiser to "investigate" the situation. And if the cops refuse the police department can be sued by said citizen.[/quote]

On an unrelated note. Is there a statute of limitations on this? I mean suing the police for not doing their job?

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;697769]On an unrelated note. Is there a statute of limitations on this? I mean suing the police for not doing their job?[/quote]

Not sure, bro. Ask someone here from AZ.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=firstdown;697768]If they are just hanging out and breaking no laws then the cops don't have to act. I guess you need to know the loitering laws for AZ to answer your question.

This is a good read for what the cost for illegals back in 2002 so I'm guessing these numbers are low.
[URL="http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html"][COLOR=#810081]Center for Immigration Studies[/COLOR][/URL][/quote]

What's the cost of no regualtions on Wall Street 786 billion dollars.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

I admit that I have not read every post so please forgive me if I am being repetitive of things already said.

1. Every country has the right to protect the integrity of its borders. Within our country, that authority belongs to the Feds. I understand this law is simply to allow States (Arizona) to "assist" the Feds where the States (Arizona) believe the Feds have failed to expend appropriate resources, BUT it seems to me that, at some level, there is an impermissible preemption. (Feds: You aren't enforcing the law the way we think it should be - therefore, we will enforce it [I]our[/I] way). If this is the case, the Feds could (I think) have the law annulled in Federal court. I haven't heard anything about this and am not sure why, for those who oppose the law, this hasn't been pursued. Further, if the State is simply "enforcing" Federal law, the Feds (i.e. Dems) could change the Fed law such that the State's actions no longer coincide with the Federal mandate.

2. It's a thorny issue, it's being played for politics by both sides.

3. Historically, this country has grown stronger by assimilating immigrants and their cultures into the "melting pot". I don't know how long they have been this way, but I checked into how to become a "legal" immigrant into this country. It is [I]extremely[/I] difficult.


4. I know it is difficult in other countries too, but, for me, that arguement falls into the "two wrongs don't make it right" category. Yes, Mexico is extremely repressive in its admission of immigrants and, in many ways, even more difficult than the US to enter legally. So? Has that created a better society for them? OR has it halted the influx of ideas and labor that would allow them to excel in the world market?

5. Bottom line, its a balancing act, somehow we need to protect the integrity of our borders [I]and[/I] the fundamental principles of the founding fathers while, at the same time, continuing to encourage the absorbtion of diverse of ideas and cultures and recognizing that we are the destination of choice for many seeking a better life for themselves and their families.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=mredskins;697758]No worries and thanks for the lady liberty words. :headbange[/quote]
Long time back when people were flooding to the US it was not that big of a deal because goverment was much smaller and it did not provide all the benifits. Now we have to regulate the flow because the minute someone becomes a citizen they are now eligible for all these programs. You open up these benifits to ever Tom, Dick and harry and we have a really big problems. Last time I check the benfits where going broke without all these additional people.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

^^wow Joe, way to be totally redundant and re-hash of everything already said.

Actually that was a very good summation of the balancing act of immigration.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=firstdown;697783]Long time back when people were flooding to the US it was not that big of a deal because goverment was much smaller and it did not provide all the benifits. Now we have to regulate the flow because the minute someone becomes a citizen they are now eligible for all these programs. You open up these benifits to ever Tom, Dick and harry and we have a really big problems. Last time I check the benfits where going broke without all these additional people.[/quote]
Well, we could always look at the overspending of the federal government as the bigger wrong, but that's not this conversation.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

If illegal aliens were given amnesty and began to pay taxes and use services like households headed by legal immigrants with the same education levels, the estimated annual net fiscal deficit would increase from $2,700 per household to nearly $7,700, for a total net cost of $29 billion.


Costs increase dramatically because unskilled immigrants with legal status -- what most illegal aliens would become -- can access government programs, but still tend to make very modest tax payments.


Although legalization would increase average tax payments by 77 percent, average costs would rise by 118 percent.

The source
[url=http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html]Center for Immigration Studies[/url]

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;697785]Well, we could always look at the overspending of the federal government as the bigger wrong, but that's not this conversation.[/quote]

Actuall the growing social programs are at the root of this problem and the reason they drain our resources.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

You've posted that same link 3 times now. Again, if you take the case to say government is overspending, that is one aspect. But to say that these people are draining our society, well right now our society is draining our society.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;697774]What's the cost of no regualtions on Wall Street 786 billion dollars.[/quote]

yup! and no one's gonna prosecute those "criminals" cuz they are legal white citizens who wear ties to work and send lobbyists to DC to blow politicians under the table of thousand dollar dinners.

If you’re an average American taxpayer, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have, since 2001, cost you personally $7,334, according to the “cost of war” counter created by the National Priorities Project (NPP). They have cost all Americans collectively more than $980,000,000,000.

have they "kept us safe" or just raised another generation or 2 of people willing to die to do us harm? have they kept us safe of just lined the pockets of Halliburton and Blackwater?

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;697791]You've posted that same link 3 times now. Again, if you take the case to say government is overspending, that is one aspect. [B]But to say that these people are draining our society, well right now our society is draining our society.[/quote][/B]

Well did you even look at the stats that the article provided? So we should just let more people drain the system even more?

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=firstdown;697804][/B]

Well did you even look at the stats that the article provided? So we should just let more people drain the system even more?[/quote]


again, seems to be okay on Wall Street where it's back to shady business as usual.

i realize we're mixing subjects here, but not really. it seems most people want to claim that they understand immigrants wanting to better their lives and it has nothing to do with racism or class warfare, just the fact that by doing it illegally, they are "draining the system" or "costing us taxpayers X-amount of dollars" and yet no one wants to treat the criminals on wall street as criminals who frauded the system.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=Rainy Parade;697808]again, seems to be okay on Wall Street where it's back to shady business as usual.

i realize we're mixing subjects here, but not really. it seems most people want to claim that they understand immigrants wanting to better their lives and it has nothing to do with racism or class warfare, just the fact that by doing it illegally, they are "draining the system" or "costing us taxpayers X-amount of dollars" [B]and yet no one wants to treat the criminals on wall street as criminals who frauded the system.[/B][/quote]

If they broke laws then send them to jail. I didn't know I needed to bring up that subject to validate my point on immigration. I'll try to remeber that next time.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=firstdown;697804]

Well did you even look at the stats that the article provided? So we should just let more people drain the system even more?[/quote]

I did look at the stats, and that is a part of why I say I won't win the argument. I am for a SERIOUSLY smaller federal government. Thus making the contributions of immigrants at all levels much more economically feasible. But the problem is not the immigrants, but the amount of drain that our social welfare structure exerts on the whole economy.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;697830]I did look at the stats, and that is a part of why I say I won't win the argument. I am for a SERIOUSLY smaller federal government. Thus making the contributions of immigrants at all levels much more economically feasible. But the problem is not the immigrants, but the amount of drain that our social welfare structure exerts on the whole economy.[/quote]

That Sr. we both agree on.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=Rainy Parade;697808]again, seems to be okay on Wall Street where it's back to shady business as usual.

i realize we're mixing subjects here, but not really. it seems most people want to claim that they understand immigrants wanting to better their lives and it has nothing to do with racism or class warfare, just the fact that by doing it illegally, they are "draining the system" or "costing us taxpayers X-amount of dollars" and yet no one wants to treat the criminals on wall street as criminals who defrauded the system.[/quote]
I don't think anyone here claimed that if a wall street business was guilty of fraud, or any other criminal act, that they shouldn't be prosecuted.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;697836]I don't think anyone here claimed that if a wall street business was guilty of fraud, or any other criminal act, that they shouldn't be prosecuted.[/quote]


fair enough... but the "IF"s in this thread... and the fact that "smaller govt" (ie less/no regulation) is part of what let these clowns run amok semi-legally. i dont claim to know the ins/outs of bank fraud laws and credit default swaps and all that other toxic shit that brought on the economic collapse... and i bet there's not a simple "crime" on the books to be pointed to, but there was a tremendous transfer of wealth from us (the lower and middle class taxpayers) to them (the ultra rich elite) and when the whole thing blew up, our govt (us/taxpayers, etc) gave them another 700 million and counting...... and, as we know, it was Bush AND Obama, a "bipartisan" effort to hand these assholes hundreds of millions of dollars AFTER they'd robbed us all blind. so, it's just a bit odd to see complaints about "the amount of drain that our social welfare structure exerts on the whole economy" as if some poor bastard getting $482/month from the government is the big problem in this country.

another one ripped from the headlines would be the oil spill in the gulf. the Wall St Journal reported that the oil well didn't have a remote-controlled emergency "off switch." i guess no one wanted "big govt" to get involved with telling businesses how to operate so Dick Cheney's energy task force figured $500,000 switches were too expensive to force BP to buy/install. $500,000 is NOTHING to a big oil company... and how much of a drain on our economy will result from that spill?

i realize this is/was an immigration thread and some of you might say these are all separate topics, but my point is that "social welfare" is not near the top of the list of things draining our economy. this myth that poor minorities are handed everything and/or that we're all working our asses off (or posting on WP while at work) so these poor folks can live it up is a bit ridiculous.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;697836]I don't think anyone here claimed that if a wall street business was guilty of fraud, or any other criminal act, that they shouldn't be prosecuted.[/quote]

We need to fix the border, so you guys round 'em up and roll 'em out. Show the world how tough you guys are. Place another shameful mark on our imperfect union. But me and my peeps won't be wearing that one. So don't be crying 20 years from now when you are judged by your freaking actions, and alot of people wind up getting checks. Just admint it, it's fear, it's fear because they ccould fundamentally change this country and the paranoid fifth aka tea party will be even more marginalized.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;697992]We need to fix the border, so you guys round 'em up and roll 'em out. Show the world how tough you guys are. Place another shameful mark on our imperfect union. But me and my peeps won't be wearing that one. So don't be crying 20 years from now when you are judged by your freaking actions, and alot of people wind up getting checks. [B]Just admint it, it's fear, it's fear because they ccould fundamentally change this country[/B] and the paranoid fifth aka tea party will be even more marginalized.[/quote]


i guess this is part of what i was getting at. when it comes to darkskinned minorities, we MUST follow the letter of the law because it's causing a drain on the economy. but when white guys in suits rob us of hundreds of billions we shrug our shoulders and say the market must be free and technically they kinda sorta didn't really actually break one specific law.... i am NOT accusing people on this thread of being racists. but it's naive to think that there's not a racial component to these issues.

unless your ancestors were Native American Indians, you're an immigrant too.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=Rainy Parade;698006]i guess this is part of what i was getting at. when it comes to darkskinned minorities, we MUST follow the letter of the law because it's causing a drain on the economy. but when white guys in suits rob us of hundreds of billions we shrug our shoulders and say the market must be free and technically they kinda sorta didn't really actually break one specific law.... i am NOT accusing people on this thread of being racists. but it's naive to think that there's not a racial component to these issues.

unless your ancestors were Native American Indians, you're an immigrant too.[/quote]

I am not an immigrant I want to be returned ot my ancestral homeland right on top of the South African diamond mines.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

We could buils a true democracy transaparent and the US millitary could helpus build a wall and use drones to blow up the boers who resist. We could be a beacon of freedonm.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;698008]I am not an immigrant I want to be returned ot my ancestral homeland right on top of the South African diamond mines.[/quote]

I mean this in the most polite way; No one is stopping you from moving.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=Rainy Parade;698006]i guess this is part of what i was getting at. when it comes to darkskinned minorities, we MUST follow the letter of the law because it's causing a drain on the economy. but [B]when white guys in suits rob us of hundreds of billions[/B] we shrug our shoulders and say the market must be free and technically they kinda sorta didn't really actually break one specific law.... i am NOT accusing people on this thread of being racists. but it's naive to think that there's not a racial component to these issues.

unless your ancestors were Native American Indians, you're an immigrant too.[/quote]There are 536 suits in DC that are robbing us far more than the greed-mongers on Wall Street. And those 536 suits in DC have the power to regulate what happens on Wall Street, but have been reluctant to do so.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;698011]I mean this in the most polite way; No one is stopping you from moving.[/quote]

I mean gather the marines let's go. Plus i will be requiring 20 billion a year in aid. Oh yeah a few nukes and some fighter jets. Let's do it.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;698012]There are 536 suits in DC that are robbing us far more than the greed-mongers on Wall Street. And those 536 suits in DC have the power to regulate what happens on Wall Street, but have been reluctant to do so.[/quote]

agree, they are all in it together. wallstreet owns the govt., the govt lets wallstreet rob us cuz wallstreet lobbyists give the politicians their cut, then the govt "bails out" wallstreet and they all keep robbing us. pretty sure most/all of us will agree on that.

and hopefully we all recognize that BOTH parties do this, albeit with different spin/packaging. but Bush was BIG GOVT. this didn't just magically start with Obama. the Military/Pentagon and defense contracting is HUGE govt. this stuff dwarfs "social welfare" to the point that it's silly. funny we dont hear as much outrage over "corporate welfare."

of course both sides of our govt certainly prefer that we argue about mexicans, and blacks vs. whites, conservatives vs liberals, gay marriage, flag burning, etc etc....
and all this Red vs. Blue Dems vs Repubs is just coke/pepsi bullshit, the illusion of choice.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=Rainy Parade;698014]agree, they are all in it together. wallstreet owns the govt., the govt lets wallstreet rob us cuz wallstreet lobbyists give the politicians their cut, then the govt "bails out" wallstreet and they all keep robbing us. pretty sure most/all of us will agree on that.

and hopefully we all recognize that BOTH parties do this, albeit with different spin/packaging. but Bush was BIG GOVT. this didn't just magically start with Obama. the Military/Pentagon and defense contracting is HUGE govt. this stuff dwarfs "social welfare" to the point that it's silly. funny we dont hear as much outrage over "corporate welfare."

of course both sides of our govt certainly prefer that we argue about mexicans, and blacks vs. whites, conservatives vs liberals, gay marriage, flag burning, etc etc....
and all this Red vs. Blue Dems vs Repubs is just coke/pepsi bullshit, the illusion of choice.[/quote]



Thank you, and this immirgration bill grows government and gives police more powers. Police/millitary contractors are all big goverment getting bigger. Just called by a different name. In this country we don't single out groups. Trying to criminalize an ethnic group is reprehensible. Everyone wants to avoid liability. We want to hold them accountable for crossing the border. They will be only ones held accountable everyone else will say not my fault.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;698013]I mean gather the marines let's go. Plus i will be requiring 20 billion a year in aid. Oh yeah a few nukes and some fighter jets. Let's do it.[/quote]

umm, why. If you want to emigrate out of the US, no one is stopping you. I doubt anyone would aid you in anything remotely close to that, but I do happen to have :twocents: for you.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;698024]umm, why. If you want to emigrate out of the US, no one is stopping you. I doubt anyone would aid you in anything remotely close to that, but I do happen to have :twocents: for you.[/quote]

Taking some of the value I have added to this nation with me. It's mine.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;698026]Taking some of the value I have added to this nation with me. It's mine.[/quote]

I won't go any further down this line, but that is a ridiculous statement compared against what this country has provided to any one of us.(unless you are Bill Gates, which I highly doubt)

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=Rainy Parade;697989]fair enough... but the "IF"s in this thread... and the fact that "smaller govt" (ie less/no regulation) is part of what let these clowns run amok semi-legally. i dont claim to know the ins/outs of bank fraud laws and credit default swaps and all that other toxic shit that brought on the economic collapse... and i bet there's not a simple "crime" on the books to be pointed to, but there was a tremendous transfer of wealth from us (the lower and middle class taxpayers) to them (the ultra rich elite) and when the whole thing blew up, our govt (us/taxpayers, etc) gave them another 700 million and counting...... and, as we know, it was Bush AND Obama, a "bipartisan" effort to hand these assholes hundreds of millions of dollars AFTER they'd robbed us all blind. so, it's just a bit odd to see complaints about "the amount of drain that our social welfare structure exerts on the whole economy" as if some poor bastard getting $482/month from the government is the big problem in this country.

another one ripped from the headlines would be the oil spill in the gulf. the Wall St Journal reported that the oil well didn't have a remote-controlled emergency "off switch." i guess no one wanted "big govt" to get involved with telling businesses how to operate so Dick Cheney's energy task force figured $500,000 switches were too expensive to force BP to buy/install. $500,000 is NOTHING to a big oil company... and how much of a drain on our economy will result from that spill?

i realize this is/was an immigration thread and some of you might say these are all separate topics, but my point is that "social welfare" is not near the top of the list of things draining our economy. this myth that poor minorities are handed everything and/or that we're all working our asses off (or posting on WP while at work) so these poor folks can live it up is a bit ridiculous.[/quote]
You may want to stick to football. Maybe now take your little check of $482 and times that by 20 million, 30 million, then add food stamps, and goverment housing and then whats that figure. If you think its Ok for them to come here then sponser a family. You do know you can do that and flip the bill for them. Come on you liberals put your money where your mouth is. None of you will because you won't spend your money you want to spend my fucking money.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;698022]Thank you, and this immirgration bill grows government and gives police more powers. Police/millitary contractors are all big goverment getting bigger. Just called by a different name. In this country we don't single out groups. Trying to criminalize an ethnic group is reprehensible. Everyone wants to avoid liability. We want to hold them accountable for crossing the border. They will be only ones held accountable everyone else will say not my fault.[/quote]

I'm held accountable each month when I have to send a fat check to the federal goverment and one to the state. You know you can sponsor a family and bring them here anytime you want so go ahead.

Re: Arizona's New Immigration Law
 

first, are you always so bitter?