Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

[quote=Longtimefan;755825]Considering all the odd circumstances surrounding the current QB situation, will Rex Grossman get the opportunity to start one or more of the eight games remanining on the schedule?[/quote]

i dont set the value of having a vet backup who knows the new system in terms of starts or stats but the intangibles and tutoring that they can bring.

what i found interesting is during shannys press conf he said with the time they had left and no timeouts that they would have to make double calls. so mcnabb would get 2 calls called in, he would call them both in the huddle, then as he was lining up he would then get 2 more double calls for the 3rd and 4th plays in his headset while he is linging up and reading the D for the 1st call.

with all that going on, it would help if mcnabb was fully versed with the terminology and had the character traits that would allow him to mentally be able to handle all those different play calls at once.

that and both mike and kyle have said receivers are open (in response to joey galloway questions), meaning to me amongst other clues and hints, that mcnabb is not seeing the field or play calls as they have those plays envisioned.

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

Although it is good that Shanny doesnt let the media dictate his choices, I think he continues to play a fine line between that and doing things driven by ego.

Also his press conference after the game and continual changing of excuses, Kyle's defense of his dad saying they told McNabb he could be benched before the game(which McNabb says he never heard) are pretty pathetic and just lies.

Shanny didnt have to make excuses and his son attempting to bail him out with more potential lies is low. He could have just said I went with my gut because McNubb wasnt playing well. Period. No cardio, no terminology, no injuries etc. Just be real Shanny.

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

[quote=Mattyk;755783]I thought just yesterday you were in favor of signing him??[/quote]

I am in favor of signing him - I was just pointing out how foolish it would make the decision to bench mcnabb in favor of grossman. Essentially, signing Russell and cutting Grossman would say that this is how Shanahan views his QBs:

Russell > Grossman > McNabb

And that's retarded.

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

[quote=over the mountain;755850]i dont set the value of having a vet backup who knows the new system in terms of starts or stats but the intangibles and tutoring that they can bring.

what i found interesting is during shannys press conf he said with the time they had left and no timeouts that they would have to make double calls. so mcnabb would get 2 calls called in, he would call them both in the huddle, then as he was lining up he would then get 2 more double calls for the 3rd and 4th plays in his headset while he is linging up and reading the D for the 1st call.

with all that going on, it would help if mcnabb was fully versed with the terminology and had the character traits that would allow him to mentally be able to handle all those different play calls at once.

that and both mike and kyle have said receivers are open (in response to joey galloway questions), meaning to me amongst other clues and hints, that mcnabb is not seeing the field or play calls as they have those plays envisioned.[/quote]


I understand what you're saying and don't doubt that it's true. While my question was not directed towards you personally, it basically called for a yes or no response.

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;755867]I am in favor of signing him - I was just pointing out how foolish it would make the decision to bench mcnabb in favor of grossman. Essentially, signing Russell and cutting Grossman would say that this is how Shanahan views his QBs:

Russell > Grossman > McNabb

And that's retarded.[/quote]

Gotcha.

I don't even think we're signing him, he's useless right now even as a #3. If he drops another 20 lbs and continues to do all the right things, I could see signing him in the offseason to see what he can do in camps.

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

JR looked really well in his workouts before he was drafted too. I don't know how that would lead to an extrapolation any difference than what we saw in Oakland.

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

yeah my bad longtime. i am very very long-winded.

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

[quote=over the mountain;755904]yeah my bad longtime. i am very very long-winded.[/quote]


It's cool OTM. I only asked the question because of all the skepticism surrounding the health of McNabb, our o-line continues to be exposed for what it is, notwithstanding the seemingly lack of complete trust in McNabb at crucial times.

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

Nothing has ever made me question my commitment to this team till now, I live and die with the Redskins this shit just broke my heart. He's the biggest bust of all time. A lazy piece of shit why the f*ck would you waste your time. We have our QB for this year I would love an explanation.

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

well i guess my theory was incorrect:


[B]Cerrato says McNabb benching "dumbfounded" him[/B]
[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/11/cerrato_says_mcnabb_benching_d.html]D.C. Sports Bog - Cerrato says McNabb benching "dumbfounded" him[/url]

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

[quote=hooskins;755856]Although it is good that Shanny doesnt let the media dictate his choices, I think he continues to play a fine line between that and doing things driven by ego.

Also his press conference after the game and continual changing of excuses, Kyle's defense of his dad saying they told McNabb he could be benched before the game(which McNabb says he never heard) are pretty pathetic and just lies.

Shanny didnt have to make excuses and his son attempting to bail him out with more potential lies is low. He could have just said I went with my gut because McNubb wasnt playing well. Period. No cardio, no terminology, no injuries etc. Just be real Shanny.[/quote]

Who's to say McNabb isn't being honest?

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

Yeah Cerrato is dumbfounded the Skins didnt bench McNabb after he struggled in the home opener vs Dallas.

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;755924]well i guess my theory was incorrect:


[B]Cerrato says McNabb benching "dumbfounded" him[/B]
[URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/11/cerrato_says_mcnabb_benching_d.html"]D.C. Sports Bog - Cerrato says McNabb benching "dumbfounded" him[/URL][/quote]

Who the F cares about what Vinny has to say? I wish this guy would just go away.

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

[quote=horse;755920]Nothing has ever made me question my commitment to this team till now, I live and die with the Redskins this shit just broke my heart. He's the biggest bust of all time. A lazy piece of shit why the f*ck would you waste your time. We have our QB for this year I would love an explanation.[/quote]

There's been plenty of rational explanations in this thread.

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;755924]well i guess my theory was incorrect:


[B]Cerrato says McNabb benching "dumbfounded" him[/B]
[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/11/cerrato_says_mcnabb_benching_d.html]D.C. Sports Bog - Cerrato says McNabb benching "dumbfounded" him[/url][/quote]

I now have confidence in the move!!!

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;755826]First of all, talent is a "natural ability or quality of a person". Work ethic, is not something like arm strength or pocket presence.

You keep on citing flaws in talent evaluation, but you keep on missing what flaws you actually are citing and not making the actual connection between evaluating Russell and a Romo.

The difference in the flaws regarding Romo, etc were a matter of [B]overstating lack of physical ability[/B] and lack of popular media exposure. They had, however, the mental intangibles to QB in the league. Not just from a work ethic, but instincts like pocket presence, etc.

The flaw in evaluating Russell's talent was overstating his PHYSICAL attributes and overlooking his mental areas. . People saw physical talent in Russell. They still do now. They didn't get that wrong.

They WERE wrong that he would have the work ethic to pan out.

As for actual MENTAL TALENTS, like pocket presence, he doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt. It's up to him to prove he actually has the ability to go through his progressions, etc, AFTER shoring up his work ethic, IF he ever does. I'm pretty sure everyone was hollering that he was mentally talented too, but he hasn't verified that expectation either.

I wasn't into football around 2007, but I'm pretty sure a lot of people thought Russell was going to be a sure thing. You're right that people didn't evaluate Russell correctly. [B]Incorrect in the sense that they thought he was going to be any good. [/B]
[/quote]

So, NFL scouts missed on Romo because they thought he wasn't enough of an athlete, and he currently ranks 4th best in passer rating all-time. We obviously know they were wrong about Romo.

But, NFL scouts missed on Russell because they thought he was more mature than he really is, and there is absolutely no way they could be wrong about it (now or in the future) because the reasoning is different?

[quote=SirClintonPortis;755826]
No, they played like they gave a damn when Gradkowski was in there. They still do now. He also displayed a "deer in headlights" way of playing. He took sacks after holding the ball for a long time.
[/quote]

I disagree about them giving a damn due to Gradkowski, but whatever.

[quote=SirClintonPortis;755826]
You're extremely vague in how this "toxicity" provided such a huge disincentive for Russell to do anything that even his pride of losing the starting job and job insecurity were not enough to provide a counterincentive and start working his ass off.

Vince Young woke up in part because of that and some other reasons.[/quote]

Incentive has nothing to do with Russell's performance, and I never argued that. Incentive and maturity are unrelated. You are arguing that he had all the incentive in the world, and that alone should have been enough for him to turn into something. I'm saying it takes more than that -- it takes a team.

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

In the Randy Moss thread I said [jokingly] we needed a receiver named Johnson.

Taurus Johnson will be added to the p/s. Played parts of 2009 with the Detroit & Miami's p/s - waived by Miami Aug. 12th and signed with Cleveland Aug. 16th 2010 - saw no action and ended up playing in the UFL catching 2 td's. Something about the name Johnson & NFL receivers.

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;755956]So, NFL scouts missed on Romo because they thought he wasn't enough of an athlete, and he currently ranks 4th best in passer rating all-time. We obviously know they were wrong about Romo.

But, NFL scouts missed on Russell because they thought he was more mature than he really is, and there is absolutely no way they could be wrong about it (now or in the future) because the reasoning is different?
[/quote]

You keep on trying to spin it as a "they were wrong". Maturity is not the same as work ethic or skills like pocket presence. Besides, the guy had one of those tougher and touching childhood stories that would make anyone expect him to be one of the MORE mature people out there, not less.

They(or at least Mike Mayock) was [B]right[/B] that he had a work ethic concern.

And really, do NFL scouts do this much work for someone post draft? They're busy checking out that next year's draft class. When people are talking about JaFatcus failing or not, it the media and fans on message boards like us.

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

[quote=Longtimefan;755968]In the Randy Moss thread I said [jokingly] we needed a receiver named Johnson.

Taurus Johnson will be added to the p/s. Played parts of 2009 with the Detroit & Miami's p/s - waived by Miami Aug. 12th and signed with Cleveland Aug. 16th 2010 - saw no action and ended up playing in the UFL catching 2 td's. Something about the name Johnson & NFL receivers.[/quote]

Well, we had an Andre Johnson here in the past. :FIREdevil:

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;756092]Well, we had an Andre Johnson here in the past. :FIREdevil:[/quote]


We've had several Johnsons through the years, only two were WR's. Joe Johnson and Billy [white shoes] Johnson.

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;756091]You keep on trying to spin it as a "they were wrong". Maturity is not the same as work ethic or skills like pocket presence. Besides, the guy had one of those tougher and touching childhood stories that would make anyone expect him to be one of the MORE mature people out there, not less.

They(or at least Mike Mayock) was [B]right[/B] that he had a work ethic concern.

And really, do NFL scouts do this much work for someone post draft? They're busy checking out that next year's draft class. When people are talking about JaFatcus failing or not, it the media and fans on message boards like us.[/quote]

I've never tried to spin it as "they were wrong", I've just been trying to get you to understand how they COULD be wrong. Go back and re-read my posts. I am not making any conclusions about him, and you are 100% certain he is a bust, based on weak evidence -- that is the difference between our arguments.

Also, to say that work ethic has nothing to do with maturity is ridiculous.

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

[quote=hooskins;755930]Yeah Cerrato is dumbfounded the Skins didnt bench McNabb after he struggled in the home opener vs Dallas.[/quote]

Anybody want to give a shout out to Sherm Lewis, or possibly some well derived advice from Zorn on the issue?

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;756106]I've never tried to spin it as "they were wrong", I've just been trying to get you to understand how they COULD be wrong. Go back and re-read my posts. I am not making any conclusions about him, and you are 100% certain he is a bust, based on weak evidence -- that is the difference between our arguments.

Also, to say that work ethic has nothing to do with maturity is ridiculous.[/quote]

I've been exposed to way too much probability in my lifetime to treat anything as a 100% certainty. That said, I feel 95% certain Russell will be flipping burgers down the road since not enough has happened to him to make the needed change. Michael Vick needed prison. Vince Young needed a benching and the death of his hero. Once you pass 22 years or something, we humans become very stubborn in our habits.

I was reading an old article on Russell. He had it tough and was saying all the right things. By appearances, he seemed likely to be a mature individual then.

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;755769]The radio station this morning, 610AM, which is a local sports station, said that Russell had been offered a 3 year contract for 2.5 million a season + incentives, but it is believed he will workout with 2 more teams this week before deciding.

He apparantley had a great workout they said. Zipped the ball well, and moved alot better. He is apparantly in much better shape than when he was with Oakland.[/quote]


So LaCanfora is doing radio too?

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;755769]The radio station this morning, 610AM, which is a local sports station, said that Russell had been offered a 3 year contract for 2.5 million a season + incentives, but it is believed he will workout with 2 more teams this week before deciding.

He apparantley had a great workout they said. Zipped the ball well, and moved alot better. He is apparantly in much better shape than when he was with Oakland.[/quote]

Two weeks to see.

:D

Oh, and I believe you're a trustworthy guy, SolidSnake84. No sarcasm.

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;756142]Two weeks to see.

:D

Oh, and I believe you're a trustworthy guy, SolidSnake84. No sarcasm.[/quote]

I appreciate the compliment. I always try and post news as i hear it, because for some reason, the small news stations seems to pick up on stuff before the major outlets...i dont know how though.

My gut tells me that the Skins worked him out as a QB, all the while considering if he could play another position..I really feel that he will get a QB job in the NFL, but you can't deny that teams have to be considering him at another position as well due to his massive size and strength..

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;755924]well i guess my theory was incorrect:


[B]Cerrato says McNabb benching "dumbfounded" him[/B]
[URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/11/cerrato_says_mcnabb_benching_d.html"]D.C. Sports Bog - Cerrato says McNabb benching "dumbfounded" him[/URL][/quote]

Vinny is always dumbfounded.

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;755769]The radio station this morning, 610AM, which is a local sports station, said that Russell had been offered a 3 year contract for 2.5 million a season + incentives, but it is believed he will workout with 2 more teams this week before deciding.

He apparantley had a great workout they said. Zipped the ball well, and moved alot better. He is apparantly in much better shape than when he was with Oakland.[/quote]

We're supposed to believe 3 teams are interested in him? :cheeky-sm

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

[quote=Buster;756188]We're supposed to believe 3 teams are interested in him? :cheeky-sm[/quote]

Yep, the Florida Tuskers and the New York Knicks are the other two.

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

Like i said, don't discount the possibility that other teams may consider him for a different position....

Honestly, that much talent, arm strength, etc...someone has to at least give him one more chance...Oakland has been a cesspool for a long time. In the right organization, he could be molded better.

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;756195]Like i said, don't discount the possibility that other teams may consider him for a different position....

Honestly, that much talent, arm strength, etc...someone has to at least give him one more chance...Oakland has been a cesspool for a long time. In the right organization, he could be molded better.[/quote]

What position? Do you have an audio link to the report you heard on the radio?

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

610 AM is a winchester based station. No one said on the radio that they were considering him at a different position, but my gut says that at least someone has thought of it.

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;756198]610 AM is a winchester based station. No one said on the radio that they were considering him at a different position, but my gut says that at least someone has thought of it.[/quote]

All I have to say that it's tough to see how he can be anything but a QB. It's not like he's Mike Vick.

Maybe Center?:cheeky-sm

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;756198]610 AM is a winchester based station. No one said on the radio that they were considering him at a different position, but my gut says that at least someone has thought of it.[/quote]

But what position?

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;756200]But what position?[/quote]

I'm totally guessing here guys, but at his size, possibly he could be a fullback or play some kind of line position. 6 ft 6 and 286 is still huge....

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;756202]I'm totally guessing here guys, but at his size, possibly he could be a fullback or play some kind of line position. 6 ft 6 and 286 is still huge....[/quote]

Yeah I think a lot of people are disrespecting offensive linemen when they keep saying Russell could just play the line because he's big. It takes more than just size to play on the line, there is skill involved

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

Russell might've been a decent TE prospect out of LSU but his learning & training curve will be pretty hard to transition to any position at this later stage. I don't know if he's got the speed/quickness to play TE, but he seems to have the overall athleticism. He will be a 'project' no matter where he goes, or what he plays.

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

I love how there was all kinds of news on tuesday and yesterday, and now everything is tight lipped about Russell. Could a signing be coming soon???

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;756203]Yeah I think a lot of people are disrespecting offensive linemen when they keep saying Russell could just play the line because he's big. It takes more than just size to play on the line, there is skill involved[/quote]

Skill and brains.

But, we're talking about replacing Rabach, not a real offensive lineman. :food-smil

Re: Skins work out JaMarcus Russell (and a bunch of other free agents)
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;756206]I love how there was all kinds of news on tuesday and yesterday, and now everything is tight lipped about Russell. Could a signing be coming soon???[/quote]

maybe there is no news.