Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=SkinDogg;782197]He'll never change. Seems every year he "learns from his mistakes" and tries to show a softer, gentler, and removed Dan. But each year, same 'ol, same 'ol.

Remember when he dated Tom Cruise?[/quote]


Yeah after yesterday theres no way he ever changes in my mind. I mean think about having all that money at such a young age and actually MAKING it or earning it yourself. He probably thinks hes a God.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=freddyg12;782205]yeah, I heard he sent Tom a flat screen & a note that said "you'll need this because you'll never watch a game from my box seats again!"[/quote]


nice

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=skinsguy;782202]You mean they broke up? :silly:[/quote]

I heard their heads where to big for each other to take.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

If ANYBODY thinks that idiot has changed, then you are 100% wrong.

[url=http://www.feinsteinonthebrink.com/index.php?id=1973036700166414836]Feinstein On The Brink[/url]

This details an account Feinstein had with Snyder after he took over the team. This story tells you everything you need to know about Dan Snyder. He's not changed, and probably never will. How he acted that day is exactly how he's acting now. Let's hope as Redskins fans he's changed on how he operates the football side. If he fails there, I imagine I (and many others) won't be a fan much longer.


[quote]
Snyder called me at some point during this period to tell me that I shouldn’t criticize him because (I’m not making this up) he gave a lot of money to Children’s Hospital. I told him I certainly would never criticize him or anyone for giving money to charity but that wasn’t the issue. He continued on, getting angry, demanding to know where the hell I came off criticizing someone who was so charitable. I told him I’d be willing to bet him a lot of money—that I’d give to charity—that I gave a higher percentage of my income to charity than he did and it was STILL a moot point; that if someone didn’t like what I wrote how much I gave to charity didn’t matter.

End of conversation.

A few years later I was sitting in a restaurant in Potomac (Maryland) not far from where I live and also not far from where Snyder lives. I was with my ex-wife, sitting in the back when the restaurant manager came over looking a little flustered.

“John, Dan Snyder is in here having dinner,” he said.

I shrugged. “And?” I said.

“He saw you sitting here. He says he wants to buy you a bottle of wine.”

I really didn’t want to play this game but there was no choice. If I turned the wine down I’d look un-gracious. So, I said to the manager, “Tell Mr. Snyder thanks and I’d like to buy his table dessert.”

When we got up to leave, I stopped at the table. Snyder was with his wife and Bennett Zeier and his wife—Zeier was running his radio stations at the time although, like most Snyder employees, he left soon after.

“Dan, thanks for the wine,” I said, shaking hands. “That was very gracious of you. I asked Enzo to add your desserts to my tab.” I turned to Mary and said, “I don’t think you’ve met my wife…”

Snyder ignored Mary and said to me, “yeah, I really enjoyed buying wine for someone who has been s----- on me for seven years.”

“Hey Dan, if you’ve got any issues with me, I’d be happy to buy you lunch and discuss them. But I don’t think now is the time.”

“No, you wouldn’t would you? You don’t like it when the tables are turned do you?”

“What tables are turned? Look, here’s my number, call me anytime you want.” I grabbed some paper from my pocket and wrote down my phone numbers. Before I could hand Snyder the numbers, he had turned on Mary.

“How does your husband sleep at night, huh?” he sneered. “Doesn’t he have a conscience? How does he sleep?”

“Actually he sleeps fine,” Mary said.

At that moment, Zeier, clearly embarrassed, jumped in and asked me about a mutual friend of ours, Rob Ades. He introduced me to the two wives who were pretty much cowering under the table.

Snyder plowed through the pleasantries. “You have no RIGHT to criticize me,” he said, pointing a finger. “I don’t know who you think you are…”

I held up my hand. Enough was enough. “Dan, there are my numbers. Call me. We’ll discuss this in a non-social setting.”

“I don’t call the media,” he shouted. “Why don’t YOU call me?”

“Because Dan, I don’t have a problem. You do.”

I walked away with Snyder still shouting something at my back. At the front of the restaurant Enzo was waiting with a bottle of wine. “Tell Mr. Snyder to keep it,” I said.

I never heard from him.

So now he’s finally thrown his pal Cerrato overboard and reeled in Allen with Shanahan probably to follow. If nothing else the next chapter should be entertaining to watch. In the meantime, I’m still sleeping fine.[/quote]

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

Apparently, the article ripped his wife's comments out of context and presented her as a "shill" for Danny in the most cynical manner when her primary purpose was actually promoting some "Fit For You 5k" event.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

Check out the replys to Fienstien



GuyoSaid....

Mr. Feinstein, glad you stuck to your guns. It is somewhat ironic but I am currently reading "Next Man Up" and the contrast between Dan Snyder & Steve Bisciotti is quike frankly shocking. Being a New York Giant fan the combination of Cerrato & Snyder in charge has brought me great comfort over the years. One of the best lines Wellington Mara ever uttered and I believe he was talking about Jerry Jones but it could have easily applied to Dan Synder as well is “It's nice to see arrogance humbled,”
Friday, December 18, 2009 10:26:00 AM


GordonSaid....

Anyone who signs on to work for Dan Snyder sells is soul to the Devil! The pay is good, the conditions are bad and they know that they will be fired before the end of their contracts.

Dan Snyder, Al Davis and Jerry Jones are all the same. Men who do not know half as much as they think they do. Snyder and Jones each believe that success in one business can be easily translated to The National Football League. Jones to his credit has had a modicum of success although rekativly little since the departure/ouster of Jimmy Johnson, while Snyder has only been successful at failure. Sadly Al Davis is just a aging bafoon.

If Mike Shanahan takes the Redskins job and Danny boys money I'l lose a great deal of respect for him. If the saying is "money can't buy happiness" he will certainly be going to the right place.
Friday, December 18, 2009 11:48:00 AM


cd1515Said....

Peter Gammons said it years ago: when a team is at the bottom, the problem is at the top.
Friday, December 18, 2009 12:34:00 PM


GunnarSaid....

Jim Zorn is an incredibly good man. It really pains me to see him have this experience, his first as a coach, in Washington. For people like Zorn, a couple of million dollars as a buyout to sit on a beach doesn't mean anything. He wants to work, lead and teach. Steve Largent was very outspoken earlier this year about the situation, it would be good to hear his opinions when Zorn's fate is sealed.
Saturday, December 19, 2009 12:18:00 AM


AnonymousSaid....

Good coaches and general managers don't take orders from anyone. Shanahan is that type of guy and he's smart and tough. He won't last with Snyder six months. Too bad too because the Redskins have had a long history of excellence.
Don't classify Al Davis with Snyder. Al does know football and proved it by the Raiders trips to the super bowl. He's just gotten too old and fought a long battle with a very sick wife. Ed, USNA 61
Saturday, December 19, 2009 1:49:00 PM


AnonymousSaid....

Ed: You're right about both Al Davis and Shanahan. The Davis situation has been awful for the league. His personal issues with Rozelle have carried over and what was once defiance is now a sad old man trying to hang on and he is killing the Raiders. Someone needs to stage an intervention there before it is too late. If he wasn't such a jerk; you could feel sorry for him. I feel
bad for Raiders fans of that once proud (and now beyond pitiful) franchise.
Sunday, December 20, 2009 1:30:00 PM

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=GMScud;782183]I don't have time to read through 150 posts to see if this has been posted yet, but this is funny:

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/02/AR2011020205483.html?hpid=top]Gene Weingarten - Memo to Dan Snyder: Thank you for your stewardship of the Redskins[/url][/quote]

That's probably the first Weingarten article that I've liked since I can remember.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=freddyg12;782205]yeah, I heard he sent Tom a flat screen & a note that said "you'll need this because you'll never watch a game from my box seats again!"[/quote]

and a note that said "I DON'T LIKE VANILLA



























SKY"

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;782215]Apparently, the article ripped his wife's comments out of context and presented her as a "shill" for Danny in the most cynical manner when her primary purpose was actually promoting some "Fit For You 5k" event.[/quote]

These events are often a double billing.. promote something, talk about everything else with media, etc

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=NC_Skins;782214]If ANYBODY thinks that idiot has changed, then you are 100% wrong.

[url=http://www.feinsteinonthebrink.com/index.php?id=1973036700166414836]Feinstein On The Brink[/url]

This details an account Feinstein had with Snyder after he took over the team. This story tells you everything you need to know about Dan Snyder. He's not changed, and probably never will. How he acted that day is exactly how he's acting now. Let's hope as Redskins fans he's changed on how he operates the football side. If he fails there, I imagine I (and many others) won't be a fan much longer.[/quote]

Yep, still an insecure douche. Remember to thank Bruce Allen for alumni day and the HD board. Snyder the miser would not have done any of that shit if he running the show by himself.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=tryfuhl;782221]These events are often a double billing.. promote something, talk about everything else with media, etc[/quote]

Fair enough.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=tryfuhl;782221]These events are often a double billing.. promote something, talk about everything else with media, etc[/quote]

Correct. Here is the exact video that McKenna refers to.

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/11/tanya_snyder_redskins_owner_ha.html]D.C. Sports Bog - Tanya Snyder: Redskins owner "has better people around him now"[/url]

Out of the 11:54 of interview, only 3:40 of it was about the Play 60 event. From 3:40 to 6:50 portion of the interview is about NFL and women. The rest of the interview is about DAN SNYDER of all things. Yeah, the biggest portion of the interview is about Dan and their life.


Looks like Dave is right It's amazing how the Snyder agenda crew is turning up the smoke machine to blow it up people's asses. Some people aren't fooled Dan.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

Snyder reminds me of a more sinister version of Ari Gold.
[YT]NkC92MraU8s[/YT]
The peso's comment especially reminds me of Snyder's "charity defense."

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

^^ thanks for the huge laugh

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;782227]Snyder reminds me of a more sinister version of Ari Gold.
[YT]NkC92MraU8s[/YT]
The peso's comment especially reminds me of Snyder's "charity defense."[/quote]

Piven ftw

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

Typical day at Mr. Snyder's office......

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_drL_OsIWzQ]YouTube - Swimming With Sharks - 5. "Sweet & Low"[/ame]

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

Just out of curiosity, besides immediate members of JKC's family as well as his four ex wives, who was in line to buy the Redskins besides Snyder back in 1999? Was there a waiting list of 200,000 billionaires?

Seriously though who else was up against Snyder in 1999?

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;782237]Just out of curiosity, besides immediate members of JKC's family as well as his four ex wives, who was in line to buy the Redskins besides Snyder back in 1999? Was there a waiting list of 200,000 billionaires?

Seriously though who else was up against Snyder in 1999?[/quote]

Answer courtesy of our beloved Dave McKenna of the Washington City Paper:
[url=http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2009/05/19/cheap-seats-daily-the-worlds-greatest-beer-man-milstein-resurfaces-ficker-running-again/]Cheap Seats Daily: The World’s Greatest Beer Man, Milstein Resurfaces, Ficker Running Again - City Desk - Washington City Paper[/url]

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

Hard to believe but we could have ended up with an even bigger a-hole as owner

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

I am just trying to imagine what the players, coaches, and GM think about this latest fiasco.

Maybe they don't care. Maybe it doesn't matter to them that their company's top executive displays so little class, humility, and emotional intelligence.

Somehow though I think it matters to someone like...London Fletcher.

And what if it matters, even a little bit, to more players and others in the organization? Could you honestly put forth maximum effort in your job, regardless of how lavishly you were being paid, and produce maximum results--if you knew your company's top executive projected dysfunction? Could you just focus on your own professional excellence if you basically did not respect your leader?

With this degree of consistent dysfunction at the top it's so easy to see why the product the Skins produce is consistently unsuccessful...

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

This article expresses the viewpoint that many have already shared here. "You've got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them" and most of all, know when to walk away.

[url=http://views.washingtonpost.com/leadership/post_leadership/2011/02/redskins-snyder-reputation-management-digital-age.html?hpid=smartliving]PostLeadership: Redskins' Snyder: Reputation management in a digital age - Jena McGregor[/url]

Interesting comments.....

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

I take Snyder's side on this one. And i can honestly say that other than firing Cerrato twice, i haven't agreed with him on much. The article, while accurate was inflamatory and tasted a little too much of yellow journalism. I mean, yes he cut down trees that didn't belong to him and were protected. But did he go 'agent orange' on them?

And i personally think that depicting a jew with devil horns is one of the most despicable things i've seen in print in a long time. For that alone, 2 million plus fees is appropriate. That's just my opinion. I like that he will give it to homeless organizations if he wins.

I understand that the author didn't place the devil horns on the picture himself, that it was probably done by someone ignorant of the history tied to the that insult for jewish people. The buck stops at the editor, and i will never read their material again. And i don't want a publication that puts that garbage out in our town.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2011/02/brett_haber_on_daniel_snyder.html]D.C. Sports Bog - Brett Haber on Daniel Snyder[/url]

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

Brett Haber blows.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=Monksdown;782268]I take Snyder's side on this one. And i can honestly say that other than firing Cerrato twice, i haven't agreed with him on much. The article, [B]while accurate[/B] was inflamatory and tasted a little too much of [B]yellow journalism[/B]. I mean, yes he cut down trees that didn't belong to him and were protected. But did he go 'agent orange' on them?

[B]And i personally think that depicting a jew with devil horns is one of the most despicable things i've seen in print in a long time. For that alone, 2 million plus fees is appropriate. That's just my opinion. I like that he will give it to homeless organizations if he wins. [/B]

I understand that the author didn't place the devil horns on the picture himself, that it was probably done by someone ignorant of the history tied to the that insult for jewish people. The buck stops at the editor, and i will never read their material again. And i don't want a publication that puts that garbage out in our town.[/quote]

I don't understand how it can be like yellow journalism if it's accurate. The man gave you what has transpired during Snyder's tenure and even sourced his article with links.

What country does your ass think you live in to think you're entitled to 2 million dollars for an unfaltering picture of you? You're silly.

Snyder is a cunt, it' doesn't matter whether he is Jewish or not and no one gives a shit what he is. If you're offended by the picture of him I sympathies but the shit he has done is truly despicable. Snyder is a despicable loathsome man and it's all his own doing. I am officially done buying Redskins product and supporting that little weasel.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=saden1;782274]I don't understand how it can be like yellow journalism if it's accurate. The man gave you what has transpired during Snyder's tenure and even sourced his article with links.

What country does your ass think you live in to think you're entitled to 2 million dollars for an unfaltering picture of you? You're silly.

Snyder is a cunt, it' doesn't matter whether he is Jewish or not and no one gives a shit what he is. If you're offended by the picture of him I sympathies but the shit he has done is truly despicable. Snyder is a despicable loathsome man and it's all his own doing. I am officially done buying Redskins product and supporting that little weasel.[/quote]

Did he release an illegal chemical agent on the trees across the street from his house? That is a gross exaggeration. And that's why that writer is writing for the Washington City paper. The what?! Yeah, i didn't know about it either.

I support Dan Snyder more because of his lawsuit, not less. i didn't care what he was until someone put devil horns on him. I understand your anger though.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=Monksdown;782268]And i personally think that depicting a jew with devil horns is one of the most despicable things i've seen in print in a long time. For that alone, 2 million plus fees is appropriate. That's just my opinion. I like that he will give it to homeless organizations if he wins.

I understand that the author didn't place the devil horns on the picture himself, that it was probably done by someone ignorant of the history tied to the that insult for jewish people. The buck stops at the editor, and i will never read their material again. And i don't want a publication that puts that garbage out in our town.[/quote]

I hate ignorant people and ignorant posts, and this takes the cake in my opinion. That article said absolutely nothing of his Jewish heritage, nor did that picture have anything to do with his religion. It's akin to Jessie Jackson pulling the ole race card when shit doesn't fit his agenda.

From the article below.

[quote]And oh, by the way, the cover artist and the editor who approved it are both Jewish.[/quote]

So what were you saying again? Are you currently on the payroll of Dan Snyder? It sounds very much like you are.



[quote=Monksdown;782270]Brett Haber blows.[/quote]

SO does anybody supporting Dan Snyder.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

I would love to be on Dan Snyder's payroll. Who's the City paper again? You are so fully invested in the hate the owner train, that you can't even see the train stops as they fly by. He likes money, himself, the redskins, and his wife. he also likes his view of the river. He likes to clean shop when moves into a new business. I like everything about that.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;782290]I hate ignorant people and ignorant posts, and this takes the cake in my opinion. QUOTE]

With your 53 posts, you are the expert on ignorant posts? Noob, i know the crowd around here is really tightly packed. But don't forget that there is an edge to the crowd.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

You do realize since we're probably going into a lockout year with no free agency that this is the only thing we have to entertain us Redskins fans! Gotta hand it do Dan the man, he never disappoints! :)

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=skinsguy;782293]You do realize since we're probably going into a lockout year with no free agency that this is the only thing we have to entertain us Redskins fans! Gotta hand it do Dan the man, he never disappoints! :)[/quote]

here's a predicition that I'm half serious about:

As summer gets hotter, there is no CBA in place, & it looks almost certain that some of the season wont' be played, the Danny calls on the only man that's been able to keep him quietly in the shadows of Redskins Park - Joe Gibbs.

Gibbs comes in as a consultant to speak about what the Skins did during those strike years when they won super bowls. And hopefully for the danny, we once again think big, remember the 80s strike seasons & forget about our 21st century soap opera era.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=freddyg12;782299]here's a predicition that I'm half serious about:

As summer gets hotter, there is no CBA in place, & it looks almost certain that some of the season wont' be played, the Danny calls on the only man that's been able to keep him quietly in the shadows of Redskins Park - Joe Gibbs.

Gibbs comes in as a consultant to speak about what the Skins did during those strike years when they won super bowls. And hopefully for the danny, we once again think big, remember the 80s strike seasons & forget about our 21st century soap opera era.[/quote]

LOL! I would not doubt that at all!

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=Monksdown;782268]I take Snyder's side on this one. And i can honestly say that other than firing Cerrato twice, i haven't agreed with him on much. The article, while accurate was inflamatory and tasted a little too much of yellow journalism. I mean, yes he cut down trees that didn't belong to him and were protected. But did he go 'agent orange' on them?

And i personally think that depicting a jew with devil horns is one of the most despicable things i've seen in print in a long time. For that alone, 2 million plus fees is appropriate. That's just my opinion. I like that he will give it to homeless organizations if he wins.

I understand that the author didn't place the devil horns on the picture himself, that it was probably done by someone ignorant of the history tied to the that insult for jewish people. The buck stops at the editor, and i will never read their material again. And i don't want a publication that puts that garbage out in our town.[/quote]

I had no idea DS was Jewish and I suspect the "cartoonist" didnt either. Either way I dont think any of the accusations or picture were done because DS is Jewish because quite frankly I dont think anyone cares what religion he is. He just a bad owner of a once proud NFL team.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=irish;782302]I had no idea DS was Jewish and I suspect the "cartoonist" didnt either. Either way I dont think any of the accusations or picture were done because DS is Jewish because quite frankly I dont think anyone cares what religion he is. He just a bad owner of a once proud NFL team.[/quote]

Yeah I didn't know he was Jewish either, and to throw out the anti-semite card is so pathetic. Like Feinstein said, none of this has anything to do with anti-semitism. It has to do with anti-Snyder.

The Little Danny wants this guy fired plain and simple. He's got no shot to win that lawsuit. I personally thought the article was hilarious. I don't care for Dan Snyder, and I'm glad he's getting roasted for this.

I know Snyder has done some good things as far as charitable donations (not like it affects him considering how much money he has), and I know he flew everyone to Sean's funeral, etc etc. But his douchebaggery FAR outweighs any good he's done. I personally don't really think that's even up for debate.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

Every news agency is letting Snyder know that he has pulled another Lu-Lu, yet again. This is a short article I found in "Forbes" regarding our "put-your-foot in your mouth, Dan: [url=http://blogs.forbes.com/monteburke/2011/02/04/what-is-dan-snyder-thinking/]What is Dan Snyder Thinking? - Monte Burke - The Owner’s Box - Forbes[/url]

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=NC_Skins;782290][B]SO does anybody supporting Dan Snyder[/B].[/quote]

Are you serious ? After all the bullshit that you've written with this statement you've taken the cake.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=Monksdown;782268]I take Snyder's side on this one. And i can honestly say that other than firing Cerrato twice, i haven't agreed with him on much. The article, while accurate was inflamatory and tasted a little too much of yellow journalism. I mean, yes he cut down trees that didn't belong to him and were protected. But did he go 'agent orange' on them?

And i personally think that depicting a jew with devil horns is one of the most despicable things i've seen in print in a long time. For that alone, 2 million plus fees is appropriate. That's just my opinion. I like that he will give it to homeless organizations if he wins.

I understand that the author didn't place the devil horns on the picture himself, that it was probably done by someone ignorant of the history tied to the that insult for jewish people. The buck stops at the editor, and i will never read their material again. And i don't want a publication that puts that garbage out in our town.[/quote]

The anti-semetic argument is a joke. It's insulting.

The fact that the man owns a team named the "Redskins" makes the argument beyond pathetic.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=Monksdown;782291]I would love to be on Dan Snyder's payroll. Who's the City paper again? You are so fully invested in the hate the owner train, that you can't even see the train stops as they fly by. He likes money, himself, the redskins, and his wife. he also likes his view of the river. He likes to clean shop when moves into a new business. I like everything about that.[/quote]

Very simple, for your simple mind.

McKenna needed to have INTENT he was sticking a devil caricature on a Jew. Did McKenna know he was making a Jewish caricature? It is NOT enough to say that he was sending an anti-semtic message because you go: "OMG, picture of Jewish dude with horns and beard". Why? Because he might have not know he was Jewish in the first place. Hence, it might have not been his INTENT to be making an anti-Semitic image.

Not only that, non-Jews have been given the same treatment.


I'm glad you aren't a judge, because you suck at it.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=wilsowilso;782311]The anti-semetic argument is a joke. It's insulting.

The fact that the man owns a team named the "Redskins" makes the argument beyond pathetic.[/quote]

Why is that, when i've heard from Indian's that like the name? I haven't yet met a jew who is cool with people thinking that he is the spawn of satan.

Re: Snyder Camp Upset!!
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;782314]Very simple, for your simple mind.

McKenna needed to have INTENT he was sticking a devil caricature on a Jew. Did McKenna know he was making a Jewish caricature? It is NOT enough to say that he was sending an anti-semtic message because you go: "OMG, picture of Jewish dude with horns and beard". Why? Because he might have not know he was Jewish in the first place. Hence, it might have not been his INTENT to be making an anti-Semitic image.

Not only that, non-Jews have been given the same treatment.


I'm glad you aren't a judge, because you suck at it.[/quote]

Ignorance doesnt forgive the anti-semetic picture. Thank you for the insult though, i don't recall insulting you. "your honor, i didn't there was a someone getting ready to fall into the road in front of me" Sorry, manslaughter.