Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;817895]Your quoted report does not say that he was better at the goal line. It said that his pass-catching skills were what probably made Wisenhunt decide on him over Wells at the goal line.

And his stats were inflated, because it was a concious decision by the staff to use him over Wells. Whether or not this was due to him he was better is irrelevant.[/quote]

Look at his stats (that I posted above). His TDs were all RUNS, zero receiving TDs. :doh:


Also, if you've even watched a game with him in it, you would see he's an explosive back. I've been watching him for a few years (and owning him in fantasy leagues).

I don't know why you and other members work so hard to talk down EVERY acquisition this team makes.

Skins sign any one, the knee-jerk reaction is "oh, bad deal, he's a bad player, the team is making bad decisions again!"

Sure...cut Hightower and give Betts a call. Might as well bring Randel El back too...goodbye Gaffney.

[quote=GMScud;817917][B]That is one of the more nonsensical things I've read on this board in a while.[/B] His stats are inflated because the coaches use him more? Yeah, you tend to have better stats than the next guy if you play more. Also, wouldn't the coaches use the better player more often? Not really irrelevant.[/quote]

It really is! :D

Reminds me of the famous Madden quote - ""Usually the team with the most points wins the game!"

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=Ruhskins;817919]Peyton Manning's stats are WAYYYYY inflated. LOL.[/quote]

That's only b/c they insist on playing Manning over Curtis Painter!!

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;817941]That's only b/c they insist on playing Manning over Curtis Painter!![/quote]

:laughing2

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=Monkeydad;817923]
Reminds me of the famous Madden quote - ""Usually the team with the most points wins the game!"[/quote]

The team that holds the ball longest is going to have better time of possession

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;817941]That's only b/c they insist on playing Manning over Curtis Painter!![/quote]

Your quoted report does not say that he was better at the goal line. It said that his pass-[I]throwing[/I] skills were what probably made [I]Caldwell[/I] decide on him over [I]Painter[/I] at the goal line.

And his stats were inflated, because it was a concious decision by the staff to use him over [I]Painter[/I]. Whether or not this was due to him he was better is irrelevant.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;817967]The team that holds the ball longest is going to have better time of possession[/quote]

John Madden Wisdom for Mike Shanahan
[I]The fewer rules a coach has, the fewer rules there are for players to break.[/I]


For Bruce Allen
[I]Don't worry about the horse being blind, just load the wagon.[/I]


For John Beck
[I]When your arm gets hit, the ball is not going to go where you want it to.[/I]

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/quick-hits-redskins-sign-placekicker-shayne-graham/2011/08/01/gIQAusyXnI_blog.html#pagebreak]Quick hits: Redskins sign placekicker Shayne Graham - The Insider - The Washington Post[/url]

-- Hightower is expected to arrive some time Monday afternoon. Shanahan described the fourth-year pro as a back who “can do everything: run, catch, pass protect.” [B]Hightower is expected to challenge Ryan Torain for the starting job.[/B]

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=Monkeydad;817923]Look at his stats (that I posted above). His TDs were all RUNS, zero receiving TDs. :doh:


Also, if you've even watched a game with him in it, you would see he's an explosive back. I've been watching him for a few years (and owning him in fantasy leagues).

I don't know why you and other members work so hard to talk down EVERY acquisition this team makes.

Skins sign any one, the knee-jerk reaction is "oh, bad deal, he's a bad player, the team is making bad decisions again!"

Sure...cut Hightower and give Betts a call. Might as well bring Randel El back too...goodbye Gaffney.



It really is! :D

Reminds me of the famous Madden quote - ""Usually the team with the most points wins the game!"[/quote]

You can't win on this board sometimes. If it's a highly sought after FA we acquire, then we whine and complain that we overpaid for that player. If we go out and get a proven, solid talent like Tim Hightower. It's oh, he's no Adrian Peterson. This move doesn't make sense.

I like this part of the season where we all get to play armchair GM, compare stats, and talk a little trash. It's part of the deal. But come September we'll know who's the real deal and who deserves to be a Redskin. Right now I'm just enjoying the ride. God knows politics is crazy right now, so this a much needed distraction.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=12thMan;817985]You can't win on this board sometimes. If it's a highly sought after FA we acquire, then we whine and complain that we overpaid for that player. If we go out and get a proven, solid talent like Tim Hightower. It's oh, he's no Adrian Peterson. This move doesn't make sense.

I like this part of the season where we all get to play armchair GM, compare stats, and talk a little trash. It's part of the deal. [B]But come September we'll know who's the real deal and who deserves to be a Redskin.[/B] Right now I'm just enjoying the ride. God knows politics is crazy right now, so this a much needed distraction.[/quote]

And people will still be clamoring for Marcus Mason and Chase Daniel.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=Monkeydad;817988]And people will still be clamoring for Marcus Mason and Chase Daniel.[/quote]

Don't forget about Marko Mitchell

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;817990]Don't forget about Marko Mitchell[/quote]

And Darnerian McCants

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;818016]And Darnerian McCants[/quote]

We do need some tall wide receivers.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

Do we have enough height at WR yet?

Kelly 6-4
Hankerson 6-2
Gaffney 6-2
Paul 6-1
Stallworth 6-0

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=Mattyk;818030]Do we have enough height at WR yet?

Kelly 6-4
Hankerson 6-2
Gaffney 6-2
Paul 6-1
Stallworth 6-0[/quote]

3 of them will make the team too.

Hank, Gaff and either Kelly or Paul, depending on Kelly's health.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;818016]And Darnerian McCants[/quote]

Hell Anthony should get into the Mix as well.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

12th man i understand. i got chewed out at one point for complimenting josh wilson and saying he was improvement over los. i mean we got him relatively cheap

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=Mattyk;818030]Do we have enough height at WR yet?

Kelly 6-4
Hankerson 6-2
Gaffney 6-2
Paul 6-1
Stallworth 6-0[/quote]

Maybe we need to get a 7-footer at wideout for people to be happy. LOL.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=Ruhskins;818089]Maybe we need to get a 7-footer at wideout for people to be happy. LOL.[/quote]

We still have a long way to go if we want to beat the Raiders in the summer hoops league. Gaither, Veldheer, maybe some Heyward-Bey at Point Guard.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

-- Hightower is expected to arrive some time Monday afternoon. Shanahan described the fourth-year pro as a back who “can do everything: run, catch, pass protect.” Hightower is expected to challenge Ryan Torain for the starting job.

Is the last sentence the words of Shanahan or those of the writer?

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=Ruhskins;818089]Maybe we need to get a 7-footer at wideout for people to be happy. LOL.[/quote]

Yao Ming is available. Let's sign him!!

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=NC_Skins;818101]Yao Ming is available. Let's sign him!![/quote]

bad feet, think his knees were a problem too, doesn't get in & out of his breaks quick enough!

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=NC_Skins;818101]Yao Ming is available. Let's sign him!![/quote]

didnt some team back in the 70s sign a real tall guy just for the purpose of blocking kicks?

a quick quick google search didnt reveal anything but i did come across this gem of an idea the chiefs used back in the day where they would put this real tall dude (stroud) who would stand at the goal post and jump up and try to block a field goal if it was close to the cross bar.

on those long kicks, why not? it would take away one of the 11 guys trying to block the kick at the LOS and long kicks are easier to block since the kicker needs a lower trajectory to go the distance but still .. i could see someone doing that again.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=over the mountain;818105]didnt some team back in the 70s sign a real tall guy just for the purpose of blocking kicks?

a quick quick google search didnt reveal anything but i did come across this gem of an idea the chiefs used back in the day where they would put this real tall dude (stroud) who would stand at the goal post and jump up and try to block a field goal if it was close to the cross bar.

on those long kicks, why not? it would take away one of the 11 guys trying to block the kick at the LOS and long kicks are easier to block since the kicker needs a lower trajectory to go the distance but still .. i could see someone doing that again.[/quote]

Only a true Skins fan can justify signing Yao Ming. Props!

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/mike-shanahan-tim-hightower-to-challenge-ryan-torain-in-redskins-backfield/2011/08/01/gIQAAHFlnI_blog.html]Mike Shanahan: Tim Hightower to challenge Ryan Torain in Redskins; backfield - The Insider - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

since shanny loves competition,anybody think that shanny will try and sign ex falcons RB Jason Snelling ? i don't think he will but this has been a crazy week so,who knows?

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=tomsawyer;818134]since shanny loves competition,anybody think that shanny will try and sign ex falcons RB Jason Snelling ? i don't think he will but this has been a crazy week so,who knows?[/quote]

Honestly I think his love of competition is a bit overboard. Don't get me wrong it's good, but there has got to be a point where it's counterproductive bringing in so many players, especially veterans that are capable of actually making rosters, not the usual warm camp bodies you see coming in to get the team count up to 90 during the summer.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

So since there was some question of what happens if Holliday had refused to report, this is kind of relevant to that...

Broderick Bunkley refused to go to Cleveland when the Eagles traded him on Saturday to the Browns for a 2012 5th round pick. So the trade was voided and now he's going to Denver for a 2013 pick. I assume he has agreed to report there.

I'm not sure what would have happened if the Eagles had not been able to find another trade partner.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=GMScud;817917]That is one of the more nonsensical things I've read on this board in a while. His stats are inflated because the coaches use him more? Yeah, you tend to have better stats than the next guy if you play more. Also, wouldn't the coaches use the better player more often? Not really irrelevant.[/quote]
And the coaches deliberately decided to use him as the goal line back, thus giving him more opportunities to snatch touchdowns. The decision appears justified by his proficiency in said situations. The coaches could have used him in the goal line due to non-utilitarian reasons, such as personal preference or the like. Either way, his use as a goal line vulture would likely have given him a higher TD total for the season. Hence, his TD total is not particularly valuable in determining whether he's going to do well or suck.

Now, I probably should have worded the sentence a little better since the word inflate carries the connotation that the coaches were trying to make his numbers look good for no good reason.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

I'm excited for Hightower, he'll be a real good back IMO for a few years, Add ATV and our run game should be very good.

I'd say Hightower starts Torain at 2 and Helu as the 3

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;818223]And the coaches deliberately decided to use him as the goal line back, thus giving him more opportunities to snatch touchdowns. The decision appears justified by his proficiency in said situations. The coaches could have used him in the goal line due to non-utilitarian reasons, such as personal preference or the like. Either way, his use as a goal line vulture would likely have given him a higher TD total for the season. Hence, his TD total is not particularly valuable in determining whether he's going to do well or suck.

Now, I probably should have worded the sentence a little better since the word inflate carries the connotation that the coaches were trying to make his numbers look good for no good reason.[/quote]

So what is your argument exactly? His high touchdown totals aren't reflective of the player he is because he got a lot of goal-line touches? All that tells me is Wisenhunt gave the guy the ball in the redzone because he has a nose for paydirt. Is that somehow a bad thing?

His high touchdown total doesn't help in determining if he'll be good? Last time I checked, if you score a lot of touchdowns you're really helping the team, and thus pretty good. Pretty simple really. He's not Chris Johnson fast, but aside from that he really doesn't have any holes in his game.

I'm sure he won't be an every down back. The NFL is a committee game these days, not to mention that's not Shanahan's style and really never has been (Terrell Davis is an exception, and maybe Portis to a degree in his first two seasons). But to make a statement like "just because he scores TD in droves doesn't mean he's a good player" seems pretty silly to me.

It's really hard to argue that (if he stays healthy- and he's never missed a game in 3 seasons in the NFL) Tim Hightower will not make significant contributions to our offense this year.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

Tim Hightower has the potential (not yet demonstrated) and the work ethic (all reports are very positive) to become the BEST RB THE SKINS HAVE HAD SINCE JOHN RIGGINS.

And before anyone asks, yes, I do recall that Clinton Portis was on the Skins since Riggo...

Now, if the Skins can put a decent OL in front of Hightower sometime in the next year or two...

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

Stephen Davis was pretty good too

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;818240]Tim Hightower has the potential (not yet demonstrated) and the work ethic (all reports are very positive) to become the BEST RB THE SKINS HAVE HAD SINCE JOHN RIGGINS.

And before anyone asks, yes, I do recall that Clinton Portis was on the Skins since Riggo...

Now, if the Skins can put a decent OL in front of Hightower sometime in the next year or two...[/quote]

Jeez....thats a heck of reach.
Good luck with that.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=GMScud;818239]So what is your argument exactly? His high touchdown totals aren't reflective of the player he is because he got a lot of goal-line touches? All that tells me is Wisenhunt gave the guy the ball in the redzone because he has a nose for paydirt. Is that somehow a bad thing?

His high touchdown total doesn't help in determining if he'll be good? Last time I checked, if you score a lot of touchdowns you're really helping the team, and thus pretty good. Pretty simple really. He's not Chris Johnson fast, but aside from that he really doesn't have any holes in his game.

I'm sure he won't be an every down back. The NFL is a committee game these days, not to mention that's not Shanahan's style and really never has been (Terrell Davis is an exception, and maybe Portis to a degree in his first two seasons). But to make a statement like "just because he scores TD in droves doesn't mean he's a good player" seems pretty silly to me.

It's really hard to argue that (if he stays healthy- and he's never missed a game in 3 seasons in the NFL) Tim Hightower will not make significant contributions to our offense this year.[/quote]

Great post. I agree. Even if Hightower runs for 400 yards and 10 touchdowns (which would be excellent considering I think Torain and Helu will see the majority of snaps) next season, I'm sure some people will still be bitching.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;818240]Tim Hightower has the potential (not yet demonstrated) and the work ethic (all reports are very positive) to become the BEST RB THE SKINS HAVE HAD SINCE JOHN RIGGINS.

And before anyone asks, yes, I do recall that Clinton Portis was on the Skins since Riggo...

Now, if the Skins can put a decent OL in front of Hightower sometime in the next year or two...[/quote]

Hmmmm....I remember a guy named Terry Allen....and... oh yeah..Ernest Byner. Nice try, though.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;818240]Tim Hightower has the potential (not yet demonstrated) and the work ethic (all reports are very positive) to become the BEST RB THE SKINS HAVE HAD SINCE JOHN RIGGINS.

And before anyone asks, yes, I do recall that Clinton Portis was on the Skins since Riggo...

Now, if the Skins can put a decent OL in front of Hightower sometime in the next year or two...[/quote]

Curmudgeon...is that you?

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=dblanch66;818247]Hmmmm....I remember a guy named Terry Allen....and... oh yeah..Ernest Byner. Nice try, though.[/quote]

S Davis was better than both IMO

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=GMScud;818239]So what is your argument exactly? His high touchdown totals aren't reflective of the player he is because he got a lot of goal-line touches? All that tells me is Wisenhunt gave the guy the ball in the redzone because he has a nose for paydirt. Is that somehow a bad thing?

His high touchdown total doesn't help in determining if he'll be good? Last time I checked, if you score a lot of touchdowns you're really helping the team, and thus pretty good. Pretty simple really. He's not Chris Johnson fast, but aside from that he really doesn't have any holes in his game.

I'm sure he won't be an every down back. The NFL is a committee game these days, not to mention that's not Shanahan's style and really never has been (Terrell Davis is an exception, and maybe Portis to a degree in his first two seasons). But to make a statement like "just because he scores TD in droves doesn't mean he's a good player" seems pretty silly to me.

It's really hard to argue that (if he stays healthy- and he's never missed a game in 3 seasons in the NFL) Tim Hightower will not make significant contributions to our offense this year.[/quote]
Oh I'm sorry, did the words with negative connotations but neutal definitions screw with your head?
First word: deliberately.
1. Done with or marked by full consciousness of the nature and effects; intentional: mistook the oversight for a deliberate insult.
2. Arising from or marked by careful consideration: a deliberate decision. See Synonyms at voluntary.
3. Unhurried in action, movement, or manner, as if trying to avoid error: moved at a deliberate pace. See Synonyms at slow.

See? A deliberate decision by the coach IS NOT NECESSARILY A BASELESS decision. Clearly, you think baseless and deliberate are synonyms.

Do I have to bring up the stats from running backs from the ZBS in Denver or the completion percentage of WCO QBs to drill into your head that a larger stat value is not a definitive INDICATOR of "betterness". By your standards, Lendale White was elite in 2008. Well, White has dropped out of the NFL universe now, but I'm sure by your standards, those FIFTEEN TDs are truly a good indicator of a good RB. As a goal-line back, you've got more QUALITY OPPORTUNITIES to punch it in. He SHOULD be having higher stat totals due to having more opportunities.

Even at the higher baseline for TDs required to goal line backs to be deemed "effective" IN THIER ROLE, Hightower's TD production has been going down, with an abysmal 5 TDs last season. This is a part of a continuing trend of decline.


It's doubtful this guy is going to make his dough here as just a redzone TD vulture. It's going to be as a third down back who can block and catch who can hopefully bounce back from a mere down season.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;818240]Tim Hightower has the [B]potential[/B] (not yet demonstrated) and the work ethic (all reports are very positive) to become the BEST RB THE SKINS HAVE HAD SINCE JOHN RIGGINS.

And before anyone asks, yes, I do recall that Clinton Portis was on the Skins since Riggo...

Now, if the Skins can put a decent OL in front of Hightower sometime in the next year or two...[/quote]

I agree. He has the [B]POTENTIAL[/B] to be great... He just hasn't put it all together. IMO he'll have his best year as a pro, but he's [B]nowhere[/B] close to being the best RB since Riggo.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;818257]Oh I'm sorry, did the words with negative connotations but neutal definitions screw with your head?
First word: deliberately.
1. Done with or marked by full consciousness of the nature and effects; intentional: mistook the oversight for a deliberate insult.
2. Arising from or marked by careful consideration: a deliberate decision. See Synonyms at voluntary.
3. Unhurried in action, movement, or manner, as if trying to avoid error: moved at a deliberate pace. See Synonyms at slow.

See? A deliberate decision by the coach IS NOT NECESSARILY A BASELESS decision. Clearly, you think baseless and deliberate are synonyms.

Do I have to bring up the stats from running backs from the ZBS in Denver or the completion percentage of WCO QBs to drill into your head that a larger stat value is not a definitive INDICATOR of "betterness". By your standards, Lendale White was elite in 2008. Well, White has dropped out of the NFL universe now, but I'm sure by your standards, those FIFTEEN TDs are truly a good indicator of a good RB. As a goal-line back, you've got more QUALITY OPPORTUNITIES to punch it in. He SHOULD be having higher stat totals due to having more opportunities.

Even at the higher baseline for TDs required to goal line backs to be deemed "effective" IN THIER ROLE, Hightower's TD production has been going down, with an abysmal 5 TDs last season. This is a part of a continuing trend of decline.


It's doubtful this guy is going to make his dough here as just a redzone TD vulture. It's going to be as a third down back who can block and catch who can hopefully bounce back from a mere down season.[/quote]

There's room for just one "greater than thou" asshole on this site...and it's not you. So tone it down Webster