Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;869320]Colt McCoy, last I heard is averaging the fewest yards per attempt in the NFL this season. Given Hillis' decline and the lack of pass-catching weapons around him-not to mention the questions about his arm strength, that's probably not too surprising a stat.

That Drew Brees has the second fewest is a bit surprising. Thing is when Brees does go deep, he connects like no other QB.[/quote]Second fewest YPA (5.90) after Gabbert; Bradford isn't too far away @ 6.06.

But its largely a function of Shurmurs 3 step drop heavy WCO.
When Shurmur was Bradford's OC Bradford was near the bottom for YPA @ 5.95 meanwhile McCoy was 7.10 w/ Dabol as his OC.

Just fur scuz Bradford [I]career[/I] YPA- 5.99/McCoy 6.29
[quote=SmootSmack;869245]There is someone else rumored, but I'll keep that name under wraps and regardless he wouldn't deter the Redskins from drafting a QB[/quote]Josh Johnson? He seems like a logical fit.
Harbaugh's star pupil prior to Stanford.
Coming out of SDSU 1-AA he was a polished 3-5-7 step rhythm drop back passer with great athleticism.
He was also drafted by Bruce Allen for Gruden's WCO.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;869323]Yeah well he one of the passes he threw to me he was way off. He claims I ran the wrong route but what does he know[/quote]

It really is cool that you rub it in our faces that you get to hang out and play catch with the NFL elite SS. ;) While I sit at home and hold my pennant and swing it back and forth... :(

I've seen Josh johnson play idk about starting though

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;869338]I've seen Josh johnson play idk about starting though[/quote]I would take Josh Johnson over Flynn or Hoyer.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=skinsfan69;869327]What about Ryan Mallet? Is he just going to sit and rot on New England's bench? He's got the skill set to be a great passer. I know the Shanahan's don't like him and he's not very mature. But maybe he's learning from Brady.[/quote]How do you know the Shanahan's didn't like him?

[QUOTE=30gut;869331]Second fewest YPA (5.90) after Gabbert; Bradford isn't too far away @ 6.06.

But its largely a function of Shurmurs 3 step drop heavy WCO.
When Shurmur was Bradford's OC Bradford was near the bottom for YPA @ 5.95 meanwhile McCoy was 7.10 w/ Dabol as his OC.

Just fur scuz Bradford [I]career[/I] YPA- 5.99/McCoy 6.29
Josh Johnson? He seems like a logical fit.
Harbaugh's star pupil prior to Stanford.
Coming out of SDSU 1-AA he was a polished 3-5-7 step rhythm drop back passer with great athleticism.
He was also drafted by Bruce Allen for Gruden's WCO.[/QUOTE]

Josh Johnson is indeed a name I've mentioned. But that was just my own guessing. And no, not the guy I'm talking about

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=redsk1;869269]It's fun to predict and guess as a fan base. We do desperately need a QB, but there are many things that happen on draft day that we're not privy to. Maybe they like two guys and try to trade up but the price tag is too high. I don't want them to leverage our future, necessarily, just to get their guy. I hope the majority of Skins fans understand this. It's kind of funny, I can see this playing a couple ways.

1. Skins throw away / over pay for Luck/Griffin as usual.
2. Skins have a crappy draft b/c they don't get Luck / Griffin.

I guess I'm trying to say sh** happens and while I'd like to walk away w/ Luck/Griffin/or other we need to continue to draft good players. I trust them and expect them to be smart about it.

I know you know this, but while i'd be disappointed I'd be happy with another good draft. While Grossman is not our long term answer, he may be our answer next year.[/quote]

I don't know why there is all this speculation about RG3. He basically is only going to go into the draft as a last option. His "Plan B". He wants to go to law school and compete in the 2012 Summer Olympics in track and field.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

I don't know if you guys knew this, but Harbaugh tried to recruit RGIII at the same time he was recruiting Luck.

Griffin, a quarterback and track star out of Copperas Cove High School in Texas, would come to Palo Alto and play for Harbaugh at Stanford, sharing quarterback duties with another Texas high schooler — a blue-chip recruit named Andrew Luck.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

RG3 can run, jump, and set records at the COMBINE if all he wants to do is compete during the summer.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;869342]Josh Johnson is indeed a name I've mentioned. But that was just my own guessing. And no, not the guy I'm talking about[/quote]Okay, TJ Yates, Matt Lienart, Dan Orlovsky?
I'll stop guessing now.
Although I would really like to know and you probably won't tell me/us.

Tease.
;)

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=30gut;869362]Okay, TJ Yates, Matt Lienart, Dan Orlovsky?
I'll stop guessing now.
Although I would really like to know and you probably won't tell me/us.

Tease.
;)[/quote]

No, eh who knows anymore, Noooooooo (I hope)

Not going to say it because I don't have enough info to confirm the rumor it legit enough to mention to the masses. It's not a name you'd probably expect and it may not be a name some people want to hear. So I'd rather just keep it under wraps for now.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;869374]No, eh who knows anymore, Noooooooo (I hope)

Not going to say it because I don't have enough info to confirm the rumor it legit enough to mention to the masses. It's not a name you'd probably expect and it may not be a name some people want to hear. So I'd rather just keep it under wraps for now.[/quote]Jimmy Clausen?

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=30gut;869377]Jimmy Clausen?[/quote]

That is who I was thinking too. I would not be a fan of that move. But, if we drafted our own QB to develop too, I guess I wouldn't be too terribly upset.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=30gut;869377]Jimmy Clausen?[/quote]

Jimmy Clausen? Jeez! Could you imagine?!

He's not a FA though, is he?

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;869228]I think if we're not in the top 5 then we're likely to trade down and get one of the supposed 2nd tier QBs and add picks. But that's just my guess

If we are in the top 5 I'm still not totally convinced we're taking one of the big 3 at QB[/quote]

If the Redskins are in the top 5 and pass on a QB I will probably break my TV and end up in a mental institution...

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;869380]Jimmy Clausen? Jeez! Could you imagine?!

He's not a FA though, is he?[/quote]

I just assumed he'd be cut after this year.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=celts32;869381]If the Redskins are in the top 5 and pass on a QB I will probably break my TV and end up in a mental institution...[/quote]

Let me just throw this hypothetical out there?

Is Barkley and say Dwight Jones significantly better than Justin Blackmon Nick Foles?

I guess what I'm asking is do you think the gap between the top 3 (Luck, Barkley, RG III) and the next set of QBs significant?

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;869386]Let me just throw this hypothetical out there?

Is Barkley and say Dwight Jones significantly better than Justin Blackmon Nick Foles?

I guess what I'm asking is do you think the gap between the top 3 (Luck, Barkley, RG III) and the next set of QBs significant?[/quote]

I would say so. I would say there is a big drop off from Barkley to Landry Jones (who someone once considered the second best QB in this draft class after Luck -- he is now considered a second teir QB).

Also, I know it was an example, but I can't see Blackmon falling to us anyway or Shanahan trading up for him.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;869386]Let me just throw this hypothetical out there?

Is Barkley and say Dwight Jones significantly better than Justin Blackmon Nick Foles?

I guess what I'm asking is do you think the gap between the top 3 (Luck, Barkley, RG III) and the next set of QBs significant?[/quote]

I am not as high on Barkley but with the other 2 I think the gap is significant. I don't want to settle anymore. I don't care about draft value or filling as many holes as possible in this draft. I want them to get the #1 QB on their board...and if that's not possible because the Colts won't trade then i want them to get the #2 QB on their board. I don't want them to trade down or wait around and hope that their 4th favorite QB falls to them.

I am not pinning the last 20 years of QB ineptitude and frustration on Shanny/Allen but this is year 3 for them...theya re out of time to get cute with trade downs and waiting and risk having it backfire on them.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=celts32;869388]I am not as high on Barkley but with the other 2 I think the gap is significant. I don't want to settle anymore. I don't care about draft value or filling as many holes as possible in this draft. I want them to get the #1 QB on their board...and if that's not possible because the Colts won't trade then i want them to get the #2 QB on their board. I don't want them to trade down or wait around and hope that their 4th favorite QB falls to them.

I am not pinning the last 20 years of QB ineptitude and frustration on Shanny/Allen but this is year 3 for them...theya re out of time to get cute with trade downs and waiting and risk having it backfire on them.[/quote]

Ok, so then what if the only choice is Barkley. Not one of the other two?

More importantly, you said a key phrase "the #1 QB on their board" This is what's key. The #1 QB on their board may not be what the consensus #1 is.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=celts32;869388]I am not as high on Barkley but with the other 2 I think the gap is significant. I don't want to settle anymore. I don't care about draft value or filling as many holes as possible in this draft. I want them to get the #1 QB on their board...and if that's not possible because the Colts won't trade then i want them to get the #2 QB on their board. I don't want them to trade down or wait around and hope that their 4th favorite QB falls to them.

I am not pinning the last 20 years of QB ineptitude and frustration on Shanny/Allen but this is year 3 for them...theya re out of time to get cute with trade downs and waiting and risk having it backfire on them.[/quote]

I agree completely. I'm tired of treating the most important position on the field as the red-headed step child (no offense to John Beck personally). We need to take that position seriously this year, even if it means expending some picks to move up. Shanny and Allen have shown themselves more than capable of recuperating draft picks by trading down in other rounds, anyway. I think it's worth the price to get a Barkley or a Griffin.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;869386]Let me just throw this hypothetical out there?

Is Barkley and say Dwight Jones significantly better than Justin Blackmon Nick Foles?

I guess what I'm asking is do you think the gap between the top 3 (Luck, Barkley, RG III) and the next set of QBs significant?[/quote]

For the Shanahan's sake and the roster in place, there's a significant drop off. You want to bring in a QB with a pro style offense like Luck and Barkley. Those 2 would be a step or two ahead in the learning curve.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=celts32;869388]I am not as high on Barkley but with the other 2 I think the gap is significant. I don't want to settle anymore. I don't care about draft value or filling as many holes as possible in this draft. I want them to get the #1 QB on their board...and if that's not possible because the Colts won't trade then i want them to get the #2 QB on their board. I don't want them to trade down or wait around and hope that their 4th favorite QB falls to them.

I am not pinning the last 20 years of QB ineptitude and frustration on Shanny/Allen but this is year 3 for them..[I][B].theya re out of time to get cute with trade downs and waiting and risk having it backfire on them.[/B][/I][/quote]


That is just it; this is the NFL every move is a risk. Luck could suck, RGIII could suck etc... you never know until they hit the field. There have been so many can't miss guys coming out of college that just fall flat on their face when it comes to game time. Just becasue the media say those are the best guys doesn't mean anything, the best people evaluating talent don't write weekly columns they work on NFL teams.

Remember when Ricky Williams was all the rage coming out of college; the media built him up so big that after that team drafted him they would be crowned Super Bowl champs. Yet when it was time for the actual draft with actual professional scouts drafting was Ricky Williams the first RB drafted?

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;869389]Ok, so then what if the only choice is Barkley. Not one of the other two?

More importantly, you said a key phrase "the #1 QB on their board" This is what's key. The #1 QB on their board may not be what the consensus #1 is.[/quote]

I would still probably want Barlkley because i think he's 3rd but i would be less mad if he were the one they passed on.

That is the key to me...I want them to get their #1 guy but i want them to be aggressive about getting it done. Problem with that is if it's not RG3 or Luck i will never know if they really did get their guy because they are going to say they did regardless. I have heard you mention Tannehill on here before. Is Tannehill really the #1 QB on their board or is he the guy they think they can get at a low enough pick and fill other holes also? If he's honestly #1 then i am fine with him, but if they are settling for Tannehill becasue they don't want to pay the price to move up for RG3 or Luck who they really want...then i am NOT okay with it at all.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=mredskins;869392]That is just it; this is the NFL every move is a risk. Luck could suck, RGIII could suck etc... you never know until they hit the field. There have been so many can't miss guys coming out of college that just fall flat on their face when it comes to game time. Just becasue the media say those are the best guys doesn't mean anything, the best people evaluating talent don't write weekly columns they work on NFL teams.

Remember when Ricky Williams was all the rage coming out of college; the media built him up so big that after that team drafted him they would be crowned Super Bowl champs. Yet when it was time for the actual draft with actual professional scouts drafting was Ricky Williams the first RB drafted?[/quote]

I agree with you...I am not listening to talking heads. What i have actually said is that I want them to be aggressive about getting the #1 QB on their draft board. That should be thier ONLY objective on day 1 of this draft...

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=celts32;869388]I am not as high on Barkley but with the other 2 I think the gap is significant. I don't want to settle anymore. I don't care about draft value or filling as many holes as possible in this draft. I want them to get the #1 QB on their board...and if that's not possible because the Colts won't trade then i want them to get the #2 QB on their board. I don't want them to trade down or wait around and hope that their 4th favorite QB falls to them.

I am not pinning the last 20 years of QB ineptitude and frustration on Shanny/Allen but this is year 3 for them...theya re out of time to get cute with trade downs and waiting and risk having it backfire on them.[/quote]

I hear you and understand that logic. But, I'm not sure we're in the position as a team to "overpay" for a top pick. I've gone on the record and support getting Luck by being fairly agressive. I just think someone is going to go "Oakland" and overpay for the 1st pick.

This will be the 3rd draft under MS and co. They took over a broken organization that lacked talent, lacked depth, and were old. I know alot of fans are impatient, but see it as it is, rebuilding. This might take 4-5 year to get back to respectability.

I do understand though, I'll be a bit disappointed if we don't get our QB, but if we have a great draft I'll get over it.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=celts32;869395]I would still probably want Barlkley because i think he's 3rd but i would be less mad if he were the one they passed on.

That is the key to me...I want them to get their #1 guy but i want them to be aggressive about getting it done. Problem with that is if it's not RG3 or Luck i will never know if they really did get their guy because they are going to say they did regardless. I have heard you mention Tannehill on here before. Is Tannehill really the #1 QB on their board or is he the guy they think they can get at a low enough pick and fill other holes also? If he's honestly #1 then i am fine with him, but if they are settling for Tannehill becasue they don't want to pay the price to move up for RG3 or Luck who they really want...then i am NOT okay with it at all.[/quote]

Who their #1 is, I really don't know. I mean the coaches haven't really done any true scouting/film study yet but here's what I kind of gathered:

Luck-Not likely a possibility but sure they'd love him
RG III-Very intrigued but need to do more research
Barkley-I keep hearing at the moment they're not too high on him compared to other QBs...but that could be total bs. It could also be that they haven't spent much time scouting him because he's not a senior
Tannehill-They like him, but it's really more my speculation that he could be the type of QB they'd end up taking
Foles-Haven't heard of much interest
Weeden-Ditto
Landry Jones-The darkhorse really in all of this. He was probably at the top of their list going into the season and I'm not sure this season has done much to discourage them

If I had to make an educated guess of what their board is I'd probably say 1. Luck 2. Jones. 3. RG III/Tannehill (kind of interchangeable) 4. Barkley

But it's still early

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;869389]Ok, so then what if the only choice is Barkley. Not one of the other two?

[B]More importantly, you said a key phrase "the #1 QB on their board" This is what's key. The #1 QB on their board may not be what the consensus #1 is.[/B][/quote]

I can certainly believe that the #1 QB on Shanny's board may not be the same as the consensus #1 QB on the board when the Skins pick. The John Beck fiasco has convinced me of that.

I just want to say that if Shanny blows the selection of our QB of the future then he'd better have at least a 10-6 record in 2012. If not, I'll be first in line to say he should be fired.

Also, the Skins need to beat Minnesota this weekend because there is still a chance that the Vikings could end up with the #1 overall pick. If that happens, I expect Shanny to be willing to give up his left nut to trade up to the #1 slot to get Luck.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=redsk1;869402]I hear you and understand that logic. But, I'm not sure we're in the position as a team to "overpay" for a top pick. I've gone on the record and support getting Luck by being fairly agressive. I just think someone is going to go "Oakland" and overpay for the 1st pick.

This will be the 3rd draft under MS and co. They took over a broken organization that lacked talent, lacked depth, and were old. I know alot of fans are impatient, but see it as it is, rebuilding. This might take 4-5 year to get back to respectability.

I do understand though, I'll be a bit disappointed if we don't get our QB, but if we have a great draft I'll get over it.[/quote]

Overall I am not impatient and remain 100% behind the job Shanny & Allen are doing. But this is not the 1980's anymore...look at this league now...the rules and style of play all favor the passing game...the teams that win consistently have a top QB. We can do all the rebuilding we want but it doesn't amount to anything more then shuffling deck chairs on the titanic until we land a franchise QB.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=celts32;869415]Overall I am not impatient and remain 100% behind the job Shanny & Allen are doing. But this is not the 1980's anymore...look at this league now...the rules and style of play all favor the passing game...the teams that win consistently have a top QB. [B]We can do all the rebuilding we want but it doesn't amount to anything more then shuffling deck chairs on the titanic until we land a franchise QB[/B].[/quote]

Amen, brother!

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;869407]Who their #1 is, I really don't know. I mean the coaches haven't really done any true scouting/film study yet but here's what I kind of gathered:

Luck-Not likely a possibility but sure they'd love him
RG III-Very intrigued but need to do more research
Barkley-I keep hearing at the moment they're not too high on him compared to other QBs...but that could be total bs. It could also be that they haven't spent much time scouting him because he's not a senior
Tannehill-They like him, but it's really more my speculation that he could be the type of QB they'd end up taking
Foles-Haven't heard of much interest
Weeden-Ditto
Landry Jones-The darkhorse really in all of this. He was probably at the top of their list going into the season and I'm not sure this season has done much to discourage them

If I had to make an educated guess of what their board is I'd probably say 1. Luck 2. Jones. 3. RG III/Tannehill (kind of interchangeable) 4. Barkley

But it's still early[/quote]

I feel like the only reason they wouldn't take Barkley is because he seems like a massive douche in every interview he gives...

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;869386]I guess what I'm asking is do you think the gap between the top 3 (Luck, Barkley, RG III) and the next set of QBs significant?[/quote]I think the gap between the QBs in any and class and year as wide as most scouts/people think because the QB position is one the most poor evaluated and coached and dependent positions in football.

But, I don't consider Foles in the second tier of QBs more like 3rd tier.
I think Griffin and Luck are the class of this draft.
Then Jones, Tannehill and Barkey round the rest of the top.
I also like Russell Wilson but he's a shrimp.

I think the perception that Jones stock has fallen is merely perception because prospects are judged more on skillset then anything else, Jones skillset didn't decrease his best WR got hurt.
Take away Blackmon or Wright or Coby Fleener from any of the top guys and there will be a drop in their production/performance but not their skillset.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

Here's how I rate this QB draft class/Redskins QB draft board:
Luck
Barkley
Griff
Weeden
Tannehill
Landry Jones
Russell Wilson


Overall:
Griffin
Luck
Tannehill
Weeden
Jones
Barkley
Russell Wilson (would be much higher if he wasn't under 6')

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

When Shannahan picked Cutler, he shocked everyone, because they had never even contacted Cutler. What I see in Barlkley is exactly what Shannahan wants.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;869434]When Shannahan picked Cutler, he shocked everyone, because they had never even contacted Cutler. What I see in Barlkley is exactly what Shannahan wants.[/quote]

I don't think Shanahan is the type of person to use the same methodology twice. Lets remember this past draft; He was very quick to say they were looking for a second pass rushing linebacker (even going so far as to say it during combine interviews) everyone thought it was a smoke screen. It turned out he was telling the truth from the start. I don't think he'll employee the same tactics he used to draft Cutler. Plus, it is far too early for him to start giving out smoke screens about the draft, anyway. He is primarily focused on the season - even if it is a lost cause.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=celts32;869395]I would still probably want Barlkley because i think he's 3rd but i would be less mad if he were the one they passed on.

That is the key to me...I want them to get their #1 guy but i want them to be aggressive about getting it done. Problem with that is if it's not RG3 or Luck i will never know if they really did get their guy because they are going to say they did regardless. I have heard you mention Tannehill on here before. Is Tannehill really the #1 QB on their board or is he the guy they think they can get at a low enough pick and fill other holes also? If he's honestly #1 then i am fine with him, but if they are settling for Tannehill becasue they don't want to pay the price to move up for RG3 or Luck who they really want...then i am NOT okay with it at all.[/quote]

I'm totally with you Celts. We should be aggressive in getting the best possible QB that is on Shanny's board (not necessarily the talking heads' boards).

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=mbedner3420;869418]I feel like the only reason they wouldn't take Barkley is because he seems like a massive douche in every interview he gives...[/quote]

Barkley does, in fact, seem like a super-sized douche.

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=30gut;869429]Here's how I rate this QB draft class/Redskins QB draft board:
Luck
Barkley
Griff
Weeden
Tannehill
Landry Jones
Russell Wilson


Overall:
Griffin
Luck
Tannehill
Weeden
Jones
Barkley
Russell Wilson (would be much higher if he wasn't under 6')[/quote]

You put Lindley/Cousins anywhere up there?

Anyhow, I don't know what will happen. No one does. But if someone said I had to put money down on who I think they'll draft right now I'm tempted to lean toward Jones or Tannehill.

And sorry for ignoring your PM ;)

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;869440]You put Lindley/Cousins anywhere up there?

Anyhow, I don't know what will happen. No one does. But if someone said I had to put money down on who I think they'll draft right now I'm tempted to lean toward Jones or Tannehill.

And sorry for ignoring your PM ;)[/quote]

Would they go Tannehill 1st round though?

Re: 2012 Draft-QB Prospects (Part III)
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;869443]Would they go Tannehill 1st round though?[/quote]

top 7? I'd be kind of surprised. Bottom half (either via trade down, or trade up from 2nd round), wouldn't surprise me at all.

I think though that he'll be taken somewhere in the 15-20 spot, by whoever takes him.