Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;892517]Didn't Jackson get tagged?[/quote]

I think he was referring to Vincent Jackson.

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

[quote=DC Tailgate;892477]Heard we're going to offer Jackson 5yrs somewhere in the range of $45-60 mil.[/quote]

Man that seems like a lot...I hope it has a "if-you-get-in-trouble-you'll-get-no-money" clause.

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

I am just not feeling the free agent wr idea. I like Colston, I just think that Hank might be just as good in two years. VJax is 29 & I have doubts about his productivity after a big deal, which he is no doubt after.

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

[quote=freddyg12;892522]I am just not feeling the free agent wr idea. I like Colston, I just think that Hank might be just as good in two years. VJax is 29 & I have doubts about his productivity after a big deal, which he is no doubt after.[/quote]

I'll second this. VJax is not the kind of guy I'd give big money to.

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

I've cooled a bit on wanting VJ here, now I'm thinking I'd rather go after someone like Garcon who's younger and has his best years ahead.

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

What do we know about Chris Carr. I thought he sucked, but I read that he was a good corner until he got hurt.

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;892517]Didn't Jackson get tagged?[/quote]

Nope

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

I've cooled on Jackson and Colston as well. Both will want top of the market deals and I think while Jackson will make an impact, I wonder if Colston is more of a product of Brees than truly an individual star. For my money, I'm leaning more towards making a big play for Garcon and Royal, whom both could come at nearly the cost for just Jackson or Colston.

My full 'shopping list' would be:
WR: Garcon, Royal (L. Robinson would be nice also to hurt Dallas while helping us)
S: Thomas DeCoud
OL: Mike Briesel, Anthony Collins
CB: Terrell Thomas

Of course, resigning Fletcher to a market deal, Lichtenstiger to a modest deal and Hightower to a one year deal would be included as well.

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

When you get right down to it, I am not overly excited about any of the WR's in free agency.
VJ, as I understand it, is a bit of a head case, has had some off-field issues and just never seemed to me to be a real difference maker. He's good. Is he a "play maker". Maybe - he's got the measurables to be one, I just don't recall him ever taking over a game (I am sure someone will cite me the stats to say he is. I admit, this is just a gut call).

Garcon, speedy but drops a lot of balls it seems. A little one-dimensional. Had the opportunity to step up after Wayne was injured and Harrison was released but just didn't.

Colston, again, not a play maker. Solid, good (not great) in the red zone but just not someone who takes the game on his back and says "Just get me the damn ball".

I guess they are all upgrades over the current stable. but not by much and certainly not "the Answer". In light of that, I hope we keep the offers reasonable and don't overpay for an, ultimately, above average WR.

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

[quote=Paintrain;892532]I've cooled on Jackson and Colston as well. Both will want top of the market deals and I think while Jackson will make an impact, I wonder if Colston is more of a product of Brees than truly an individual star. For my money, I'm leaning more towards making a big play for Garcon and Royal, whom both could come at nearly the cost for just Jackson or Colston.

My full 'shopping list' would be:
WR: Garcon, Royal (L. Robinson would be nice also to hurt Dallas while helping us)
S: Thomas DeCoud
OL: Mike Briesel, Anthony Collins
CB: Terrell Thomas

Of course, resigning Fletcher to a market deal, Lichtenstiger to a modest deal and Hightower to a one year deal would be included as well.[/quote]

Scouting info on Thomas DeCoud...

Grade: 74 | Key

Comment: DeCoud is a very athletic safety with long arms that allow him the reach to tip the ball away from receivers. He lacks premier speed and acceleration but does a good job of reading the quarterback's eyes and shows above-average route recognition in deep zone. He is a solid tackler both in space as well as in the hole and is not at all timid about inserting himself on run support. While he gets to a lot of balls he lacks the kind of top ball skills that would allow him to come up with more interceptions.

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

[quote=Paintrain;892532]I've cooled on Jackson and Colston as well. Both will want top of the market deals and I think while Jackson will make an impact, I wonder if Colston is more of a product of Brees than truly an individual star. For my money, I'm leaning more towards making a big play for Garcon and Royal, whom both could come at nearly the cost for just Jackson or Colston.

My full 'shopping list' would be:
WR: Garcon, Royal (L. Robinson would be nice also to hurt Dallas while helping us)
S: Thomas DeCoud
OL: Mike Briesel, Anthony Collins
CB: Terrell Thomas

Of course, resigning Fletcher to a market deal, Lichtenstiger to a modest deal and Hightower to a one year deal would be included as well.[/quote]

Good list. Harry Douglas, Tracy Porter may also be considered as well

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

Personally Id like us to get a WR like Criner inthe draft. but I understand that at this point we have to get a surefire #1 receiver, we can't just rely on unprovem draft talent.

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

[quote=Mattyk;892524]I've cooled a bit on wanting VJ here, now I'm thinking I'd rather go after someone like Garcon who's younger and has his best years ahead.[/quote]

I have gone back and forth on VJ all off season. In general I want to see if our current young WR's can develop with better QB play but I have also come around to the belief that we can't afford to go into another season hoping to project a #1 WR. We need a proven #1 WR and VJ looks like the only sure fire one on the market. I think we need to make a serious run at him in spite of his off field troubles. I like Garcon as the fall back plan for VJ and I want Royal as a replacement for Moss which will make us a little younger at the position.

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

[quote=SmootSmack;892538]Good list. Harry Douglas, Tracy Porter may also be considered as well[/quote]

I see Harry Douglas as a younger version of Armstrong. Good vertical speed but limitations in running the complete route tree. I'm thinking Porter may be expensive, former first rounder, some turnover capability. I like him though. Wasn't there some talk of him converting to FS?

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;892534]When you get right down to it, I am not overly excited about any of the WR's in free agency.
VJ, as I understand it, is a bit of a head case, has had some off-field issues and just never seemed to me to be a real difference maker. He's good. Is he a "play maker". Maybe - he's got the measurables to be one, I just don't recall him ever taking over a game (I am sure someone will cite me the stats to say he is. I admit, this is just a gut call).

Garcon, speedy but drops a lot of balls it seems. A little one-dimensional. Had the opportunity to step up after Wayne was injured and Harrison was released but just didn't.

Colston, again, not a play maker. Solid, good (not great) in the red zone but just not someone who takes the game on his back and says "Just get me the damn ball".

I guess they are all upgrades over the current stable. but not by much and certainly not "the Answer". In light of that, I hope we keep the offers reasonable and don't overpay for an, ultimately, above average WR.[/quote]

I think solid arguments can be made for all three being considered play makers, and all are definite upgrades over our current group.

VJ for example averages 17.5 YPC for his career. He can really blow the lid off a D.

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

Colston scares me the most....big injury risk and seemed to just be another cog in an explosive offense. Can he really move to a new team and dictate coverage like a player at his expected salary level should?

Decoud is solid but imo he's not better than Landry or atogwe

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

DeCoud's staying in Atlanta, just got word

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

[quote=DC Tailgate;892477]Heard we're going to offer Jackson 5yrs somewhere in the range of $45-60 mil.[/quote]

this is concerning for a couple of reasons:

1) Tampering
2) Isnt Jackson one joint away from a 1-year suspension, just like davis and Williams?
3) Thats alot of money to give someone who will turn 30 before the seasons over.

Sorry but I would not give Jackson that deal, he's almost 30 and honestly he's been inconsistent plus suspended also. I'd stick with getting garcon and someone else

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

[quote=DC Tailgate;892477]Heard we're going to offer Jackson 5yrs somewhere in the range of $45-60 mil.[/quote]

That sounds about right...he's probably gonna get 10-12 per year on the open market. And he's been fighting with the Chargers for years to get his big payday...so i don't see him giving anyone any discounts.

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

Jackson is the kind of receiver Snyder and Cerrato would have jumped to sign. He's not the kind of player i want us to go after.

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;892568]Jackson is the kind of receiver Snyder and Cerrato would have jumped to sign. He's not the kind of player i want us to go after.[/quote]

Well there is some evidence that Shanny has liked VJ for years. I agree that we don't want to do business like we did under Snyderatto ever again, but there has to be a middle ground. Eventually we are going to need to sign a big name free agent and when we do it does not mean that Vinny is coming back. I think Shanny & Bruce have already proved that they know how to handle the salary cap sensibly. DC is no longer the place for free agents to ring the cash register. And that means if they think VJ can make a big difference in their offense and is worth the big pay day then I have no problem with it...

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk;892524]I've cooled a bit on wanting VJ here, now I'm thinking I'd rather go after someone like Garcon who's younger and has his best years ahead.[/QUOTE]



I've been thinking the same thing, if for no other reason I'd enjoy his 6'5" frame on Madden.

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;892574]I've been thinking the same thing, if for no other reason I'd enjoy his 6'5" frame on Madden.[/quote]


who is 6'5"?

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

[quote=celts32;892573]Well there is some evidence that Shanny has liked VJ for years. I agree that we don't want to do business like we did under Snyderatto ever again, but there has to be a middle ground. Eventually we are going to need to sign a big name free agent and when we do it does not mean that Vinny is coming back. I think Shanny & Bruce have already proved that they know how to handle the salary cap sensibly. [B]DC is no longer the place for free agents to ring the cash register.[/B] And that means if they think VJ can make a big difference in their offense and is worth the big pay day then I have no problem with it...[/quote]
For everyone who hated the Haynesworth drama, (which should be everyone), this is where it can come back to help the team in the future. If any player wants a place where name/contract alone will give you a free ride, I am pretty sure, they will not be coming to the Skins while Bruce and Shanny are here. But IF they get the big bucks, and come to perform, I think they will be rewarded. Bad FA spending is not just big names, it's when big names come and be big busts.

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

[quote=Ruhskins;892537]Scouting info on Thomas DeCoud...

Grade: 74 | Key

Comment: DeCoud is a very athletic safety with long arms that allow him the reach to tip the ball away from receivers. He lacks premier speed and acceleration but does a good job of reading the quarterback's eyes and shows above-average route recognition in deep zone. He is a solid tackler both in space as well as in the hole and is not at all timid about inserting himself on run support. While he gets to a lot of balls he lacks the kind of top ball skills that would allow him to come up with more interceptions.[/quote]

Falcons just re-signed DeCoud.. One off of my list. Hopefully we are still talking to Landry about a one year deal.

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;892577]For everyone who hated the Haynesworth drama, (which should be everyone), this is where it can come back to help the team in the future. If any player wants a place where name/contract alone will give you a free ride, I am pretty sure, they will not be coming to the Skins while Bruce and Shanny are here. But IF they get the big bucks, and come to perform, I think they will be rewarded. Bad FA spending is not just big names, it's when big names come and be big busts.[/quote]

Agreed...that big Al mess, while unpleasant to listen to did serve a purpose.

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

[quote=celts32;892573]Well there is some evidence that Shanny has liked VJ for years. I agree that we don't want to do business like we did under Snyderatto ever again, but there has to be a middle ground. Eventually we are going to need to sign a big name free agent and when we do it does not mean that Vinny is coming back. I think Shanny & Bruce have already proved that they know how to handle the salary cap sensibly. DC is no longer the place for free agents to ring the cash register. And that means if they think VJ can make a big difference in their offense and is worth the big pay day then I have no problem with it...[/quote]

I've got no problem signing a big name free agent. My problem is signing a 29 year old guy with character concerns who is one joint away from a one year suspension to a mega-contract. To do so would be irresponsible. All it would take is one party with our starting receiver, starting left tackle, and starting tight end and we'd lose all three for a year.

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

[QUOTE=redskins5044;892575]who is 6'5"?[/QUOTE]



That would be Vincent Jackson.

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;892582]I've got no problem signing a big name free agent. My problem is signing a 29 year old guy with character concerns who is one joint away from a one year suspension to a mega-contract. To do so would be irresponsible. All it would take is one party with our starting receiver, starting left tackle, and starting tight end and we'd lose all three for a year.[/quote]

I hear you...valid points. He's definitely a risk but I am going to give them a pass on this one if they think they need him. #1 WR's don't go on trees...there are probably only about 15 or so of them in the whole league and this guys one of them. I don't think you can make a living taking a lot of these chances but occasionally you have to take some risks if the need is big enough...

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

I'd be too nervous Jackson is just looking for his pay day. Doesn't seem like we'd be able to get away with an incentive laden deal. I'd pass on him, but BA/MS know a lot more than I do, if they get him they must see something to alleviate these concerns which I'm sure they've discussed.

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

If we had manning as qb, I'd be more inclined to take a gamble on Jackson. He'd keep everyone inline. But if we were stuck with Orton, grossman, or a rookie -even rg3- I can see this place turning into a circus

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;892599]If we had manning as qb, I'd be more inclined to take a gamble on Jackson. He'd keep everyone inline. But if we were stuck with Orton, grossman, or a rookie -even rg3- I can see this place turning into a circus[/quote]

Jackson alone would turn things into a circus?

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;892562]Decoud is solid but imo he's not better than Landry or atogwe[/quote]

he's not

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

The only thing I'd be concern with Jackson is that we would be 1-strike away from having our #1 WR, #1 TE, and our starting LT out for a whole season. I wonder if whatever team that signs him will include some type of discipline clause.

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;892599]If we had manning as qb, I'd be more inclined to take a gamble on Jackson. He'd keep everyone inline. But if we were stuck with Orton, grossman, or a rookie -even rg3- I can see this place turning into a circus[/quote]

I know VJ had the drug suspension and the contract issues but where is the evidence that he is a locker room problem or has done anything to promote a "circus" environment? I think there are plenty of valid reasons to prefer not signing VJ but i don't think this is one of them...

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

[quote=Ruhskins;892613]The only thing I'd be concern with Jackson is that we would be 1-strike away from having our #1 WR, #1 TE, and our starting LT out for a whole season. I wonder if whatever team that signs him will include some type of discipline clause.[/quote]

This is the most valid concern and if it happens then Phillip Daniels is going to have to really earn that new paycheck he is getting from the Redskins...

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

[quote=celts32;892573]Well there is some evidence that Shanny has liked VJ for years. I agree that we don't want to do business like we did under Snyderatto ever again, but there has to be a middle ground. Eventually we are going to need to sign a big name free agent and when we do it does not mean that Vinny is coming back. I think Shanny & Bruce have already proved that they know how to handle the salary cap sensibly. DC is no longer the place for free agents to ring the cash register. And that means if they think VJ can make a big difference in their offense and is worth the big pay day then I have no problem with it...[/quote]

Part of the reason the Snyderatto strategy rarely worked is because they kept going after skill players without a QB. As long as the Redsins plan to get a quality QB then a big time receiver like VJax has a chance to work here in DC, otherwise it will be Brandon Lloyd all over again.

Re: Redskins: 2012 Off-Season-Free Agency/Trades
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;892620]Part of the reason the Snyderatto strategy rarely worked is because they kept going after skill players without a QB. As long as the Redsins plan to get a quality QB then a big time receiver like VJax has a chance to work here in DC, otherwise it will be Brandon Lloyd all over again.[/quote]

Agree completely...but I am assuming the QB is coming in the form of RG3 or Peyton. Without the QB we are shuffling deck chairs no matter what we do...