Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

Wait until after draft day, then Mr. Snyder get some balls and file the law suit. Show your not going to get walked on. The league changes their mind then drop the law suit if they don't then let it go to arbitration.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;901669]No. If we do nothing, it simply means that, in weighing the probability and benefits of prevailing against the costs of pursuing the claim, the possibility of an adverse decision and/or the incidental costs created by attacking their fellow owners, DS decided it was best to go quietly into the night.

Lots of people settle or fail to pursue meritorious claims and they do so for lots of reasons unrelated to the actual merit of the claim. It is why Dallas' decision not to pursue a claim is simply not in any way probative as to the merit of the Skins' substantive claim.[/quote]

You see it your way I see it mine. :)

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

A couple of relevant points that may or may not have been made yet:

1) The NFL's Constitution and bylaws outline the authority of the Executive Committee, the Commissioner, and they authorize the commissioner to create other committees reporting to the commissioner (including the Management Council Executive Committee). The authority of the commissioner is specifically defined (Art. VIII), and nowhere in there does the commissioner have the power to modify the salary cap. He does have the right to recommend other punishment to the Executive Committee, but punishment by the Executive Committee requires the affirmative vote of 3/4 of the clubs.

2) The discipline enacted relies on the clubs involved exhibiting "conduct detrimental to the welfare of the League." This should be interesting to prove given that the Commissioner had the ability to disapprove the relevant contracts at the time and didn't.

3) The CBA explicitly states (Art XIII, Sec. 1) that the salary cap will the same amount for each club.

4) The NFLPA agreed to not dispute the penalty because DeMaurice Smith was bribed with his job. He is up for re-election this month, and seeing the salary cap go down from the fixed amount last year would all but ensure he's not re-elected. The Salary Cap is calculated for a given year based on projected revenues - and the total cash spending requirement across all teams is adjusted later based on actual revenues. Since the League makes this projection, they threatened to lower the salary cap in 2012 if the NFLPA didn't accept the penalties on the 'Skins and Cowboys.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=NYCskinfan82;901710]You see it your way I see it mine. :)[/quote]

Yeah, I probably haven't been involved in the settlement of about a thousand or two claims in my 20 year career as an attorney - so I probably have no idea what I am talking about.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

Welcome aboard Hoophead, best first post I've seen.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=HoopheadVII;901720]A couple of relevant points that may or may not have been made yet:

1) The NFL's Constitution and bylaws outline the authority of the Executive Committee, the Commissioner, and they authorize the commissioner to create other committees reporting to the commissioner (including the Management Council Executive Committee). The authority of the commissioner is specifically defined (Art. VIII), and nowhere in there does the commissioner have the power to modify the salary cap. He does have the right to recommend other punishment to the Executive Committee, but punishment by the Executive Committee requires the affirmative vote of 3/4 of the clubs.

2) The discipline enacted relies on the clubs involved exhibiting "conduct detrimental to the welfare of the League." This should be interesting to prove given that the Commissioner had the ability to disapprove the relevant contracts at the time and didn't.

3) The CBA explicitly states (Art XIII, Sec. 1) that the salary cap will the same amount for each club.

4) The NFLPA agreed to not dispute the penalty because DeMaurice Smith was bribed with his job. He is up for re-election this month, and seeing the salary cap go down from the fixed amount last year would all but ensure he's not re-elected. The Salary Cap is calculated for a given year based on projected revenues - and the total cash spending requirement across all teams is adjusted later based on actual revenues. Since the League makes this projection, they threatened to lower the salary cap in 2012 if the NFLPA didn't accept the penalties on the 'Skins and Cowboys.[/quote]
NICE first post HH and welcome to the WP!
BTW, I think it is a little to interesting for the league to allow to fully come to light. In THAT light I think JoeRedskin is probably correct. There will be some quiet negotiations and subsequent settlement.....HTTR

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;901732]Yeah, I probably haven't been involved in the settlement of about a thousand or two claims in my 20 year career as an attorney - so I probably have no idea what I am talking about.[/quote]

Cheer up ,there is always talk radio.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=HoopheadVII;901720]


4) The NFLPA agreed to not dispute the penalty because DeMaurice Smith was bribed with his job. He is up for re-election this month, and seeing the salary cap go down from the fixed amount last year would all but ensure he's not re-elected. The Salary Cap is calculated for a given year based on projected revenues - and the total cash spending requirement across all teams is adjusted later based on actual revenues. Since the League makes this projection, they threatened to lower the salary cap in 2012 if the NFLPA didn't accept the penalties on the 'Skins and Cowboys.[/quote]


again, what proof do you have that this took place,you have used the words" bribed and threatened" and have not shown one once of proof.

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;901732]Yeah, I probably haven't been involved in the settlement of about a thousand or two claims in my 20 year career as an attorney - so[B] I probably have no idea what I am talking about.[/B][/QUOTE]

I think I will permalink this post! Sarcastic context can easily be ignored.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=Giantone;901739]again, what proof do you have that this took place,you have used the words" bribed and threatened" and have not shown one once of proof.[/quote]

Again, Why are you here?

It's time to stop feeding this idiot.. Maybe if we ignore him, he will go away..

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=Giantone;901736]Cheer up ,there is always talk radio.[/quote]

True, but then I'd run into you all the time.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;901746]True, but then I'd run into you all the time.[/quote]


As the owner I make it a policy to never call my own station.:headbange

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=Brody81;901743]Again, Why are you here?

It's time to stop feeding this idiot.. Maybe if we ignore him, he will go away..[/quote]


.....................:yeahright

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=HoopheadVII;901720]A couple of relevant points that may or may not have been made yet:

1) The NFL's Constitution and bylaws outline the authority of the Executive Committee, the Commissioner, and they authorize the commissioner to create other committees reporting to the commissioner (including the Management Council Executive Committee). The authority of the commissioner is specifically defined (Art. VIII), and nowhere in there does the commissioner have the power to modify the salary cap. He does have the right to recommend other punishment to the Executive Committee, but punishment by the Executive Committee requires the affirmative vote of 3/4 of the clubs.

2) The discipline enacted relies on the clubs involved exhibiting "conduct detrimental to the welfare of the League." This should be interesting to prove given that the Commissioner had the ability to disapprove the relevant contracts at the time and didn't.

3) The CBA explicitly states (Art XIII, Sec. 1) that the salary cap will the same amount for each club.

4) The NFLPA agreed to not dispute the penalty because DeMaurice Smith was bribed with his job. He is up for re-election this month, and seeing the salary cap go down from the fixed amount last year would all but ensure he's not re-elected. The Salary Cap is calculated for a given year based on projected revenues - and the total cash spending requirement across all teams is adjusted later based on actual revenues. Since the League makes this projection, they threatened to lower the salary cap in 2012 if the NFLPA didn't accept the penalties on the 'Skins and Cowboys.[/quote]

Very nice. Good stuff. Point 4 involves some speculation, but certainly not unreasonable given the grounds you state. Not sure a decline in the salary cap would "ensure he is not re-eleted" but it certainly would not help him.

Welcome to the board. I think you and I will get along well.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

edit (double post)

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

This debate between JR and Giantone reminds me of the arguments I used to have with my ex wife. She couldn't make a valid point so she just kept arguing louder and louder, over and over again. The worst part was that if, by pure chance, things ended up working out so that she was right, she wasn't smart enough to know that she just got lucky. When she got lucky enough to guess correctly about something, it reinforced her self serving reality that her personal opinion, or even her blind guessing, was some sort of keen insight or talent she could take credit for.

I usually think both these guys are good debaters, but JR clearly has this one won. It is time for G to stop being stubborn and realize that he has been beat here. Some NFL lawyers may someday make greater arguments than Joe Redskins has, but Giantone's arguments clearly are not better.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=GoSkins!;901836]
I usually think both these guys are good debaters, but JR clearly has this one won. It is time for G to stop being stubborn and realize that he has been beat here. Some NFL lawyers may someday make greater arguments than Joe Redskins has, but Giantone's arguments clearly are not better.[/quote]

Mine are not better I admitt that but a good Lawyer must admit that there is always a possibility of another theory or he would'nt know how to attack the situation, or defend it.All of us don't know the true facts as I have stated to and admitted before but in my time dealing with lawyers I have found it's the ones that think I know nothing that end up being the most upset.
JR is obviously good at what he does and at no time have I ever said anything other wise.All I ask is that some fans here think a little with their head before their heart in a situation of this nature. Does anyone else think the all 28 "other " teams did'nt have lawyers ...or the NFL does'nt have lawyers ,...even the NFLPA has lawyers, and nobody else came up with the argument that JR did,and in fact maybe they did,noone knows is my point.
If the Skins are right as JR says, then I beleive you attack from day one and take it public.Just don't win show the world what the NFL has tried to do,if you go to arbitration or do nothing ....to me and I said it before you're admitting guilt.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=Giantone;901739]again, what proof do you have that this took place,you have used the words" bribed and threatened" and have not shown one once of proof.[/quote]

Unfortunately, sice I have less than 10 posts, I can't post links - so you'll have to copy and paste into your browser:

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/12/nflpa-agreed-to-cowboysredskins-salary-cap-sanctions/

Key part:

[I]So why did the union agree? The sources explain that the NFL offered to help pump up the 2012 team-by-team salary cap in exchange for the union’s agreement to remove cap money from the Cowboys and Redskins. One source said that, without the NFLPA’s agreement regarding the removal of cap room from the Cowboys and Redskins, the 2012 salary cap would have been in the range of $116 million per team. (One source said that the number at one point was presented to the union as being a paltry $113.5 million.) With the players agreeing to remove $46 million from the Cowboys and Redskins, the league agreed to a massaging of the salary and benefit numbers in order to get the 2012 salary cap up to $120.6 million. (The recalculation also kicked in some additional money that otherwise would not have been devoted to salary and benefits for 2012.)

Thus, the union had no real option. Without consenting to the reduction of the Redskins and Cowboys cap numbers, the unadjusted cap limit would have dropped, for the first time ever.

And with NFLPA executive director DeMaurice Smith up for re-election this month, he quite possibly would not have been re-elected.[/I]

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=Giantone;901877]Mine are not better I admitt that but a good Lawyer must admit that there is always a possibility of another theory or he would'nt know how to attack the situation, or defend it.All of us don't know the true facts as I have stated to and admitted before but in my time dealing with lawyers I have found it's the ones that think I know nothing that end up being the most upset.
JR is obviously good at what he does and at no time have I ever said anything other wise.All I ask is that some fans here think a little with their head before their heart in a situation of this nature. Does anyone else think the all 28 "other " teams did'nt have lawyers ...or the NFL does'nt have lawyers ,...even the NFLPA has lawyers, and nobody else came up with the argument that JR did,and in fact maybe they did,noone knows is my point.
If the Skins are right as JR says, then I beleive you attack from day one and take it public.Just don't win show the world what the NFL has tried to do,if you go to arbitration or do nothing ....to me and I said it before you're admitting guilt.[/quote]

I understand your arguments. However, it looks to me like the NFL owners probably have consulted their lawyers and realize they are on shaky ground. This seems obvious by the timing of the punishment. They needed to find a way to stop the free agents for 2012 from signing with the skins and cowboys. They accomplished that. They will take that for now and hope their punishment, or some part of it, stands up over time. If nothing else, they got to piss off the guys who didn't go along with the program and screw up their 2012 off season plans.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=HoopheadVII;901720]A couple of relevant points that may or may not have been made yet:

1) The NFL's Constitution and bylaws outline the authority of the Executive Committee, the Commissioner, and they authorize the commissioner to create other committees reporting to the commissioner (including the Management Council Executive Committee). The authority of the commissioner is specifically defined (Art. VIII), and nowhere in there does the commissioner have the power to modify the salary cap. He does have the right to recommend other punishment to the Executive Committee, but punishment by the Executive Committee requires the affirmative vote of 3/4 of the clubs.

2) The discipline enacted relies on the clubs involved exhibiting "conduct detrimental to the welfare of the League." This should be interesting to prove given that the Commissioner had the ability to disapprove the relevant contracts at the time and didn't.
[/quote]

Now, one problem that the 'Skins may have is that the Commissioner does have the explicit authority to take away draft picks for 2) above. It would be approximately 87 times worse to give up the shiny new #2 pick in the upcoming draft than it would be to live with reduced cap space for two years. Creative restructuring can push cap hits from '12 and '13 into '14 - when the salary cap is expected to go up with a new TV deal.

Basically, if the 'Skins go nuclear, the Commissioner has a pretty nasty nuclear option himself.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

For your third post, you quoted yourself. Welcome to the board.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

Yeah, he quoted himself. But it was a good, relevant quote that was really more of a reference the NFL charter/by-laws.

Getting facts straight, backing up opinion with foundational documents and relevant links. ... So far, Hoophead has the JoeRedskin seal of approval. I am sure that makes his day. ;)

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

The other side of the coin here and, as NCSkins referenced, the Skins are not exactly a naive victim. No, you can't enforce illegal agreements [I]but[/I] it's not like the Skins didn't realize the "warnings" were part of a collusive agreement. I don't recall, however, DS or Bruce Allen coming forward and telling any one in the public - "Hey, the owners are secretly trying to influence how player contracts are being negotiated."

Essentially, the Skins gave a giant middle finger to their fellow owners. It appears the Skins basically told the league "We know you don't like our contract dumping but what are you going to do about it? Call the cops? Take your pick, either approve the contracts or provide the players with hard evidence of the collusion."

Legally, how does that affect the League's substantive ability to sanction the Skins for their conduct (the contract dumping) by restructuring the salary cap? Not sure exactly. It may not have any effect - again, illegal contracts cannot be enforced. Period. As a practical matter, and in an open court trial, however, it would certainly make all the owners look bad, possibly open the owners (including DS) up to "bad faith claims", may even allow the players to reopen their collusion suit, and certainly would piss off the players (who would probably remember it 10 years from now when the CBA comes up).

Are the Skins legally correct in asserting that there is no substantive basis for sanctioning them? Based on the facts that have come out and the language cited from the 2006 & 2012 CBA's and NFL Charter/By-laws (thanks Hoophead!), I am about as certain of that as a I can be. There may be language in the documents that provides the authority, but it isn't in any of the places one would expect to find such language and there is plenty of language indicating that there was no authority for the salary cap adjustment.

Is it in their best interests to pursue a remedy through a lawsuit or other formal action? Given the nasty consequences that could occur even if they prevail, I am pretty sure that I would advise them to use that as an absolute last resort.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

Pretty good story by a Skins fan in Texas with him meeting up with Skins brass. I'm posting this here due to the relevance of the Skins fighting the cap mess. I tell you what, Bruce is one hell of a guy. Got to love a GM that shares a connection with fans the way he does.



[quote]I live in Hewitt- a suburb of Waco. My sister calls me around 6:30 tonight telling me the bartender of a local restaurant she frequents for happy hour told her RG3 was there in a private room with members of the Washington Redskins. This place is less than a mile away so I decide to go up there, have a beer and see for myself.

Sure enough, as you walk in the front of this restaurant there is a private room right of the left of the entrance and I see RG3 with coach Shanahan sitting immediately to his left. I didn't get a chance to look for long but there was easily 15 people in the room.

I meet my sister and sit at the bar giddy as a kid on Christmas morning. Remember I live in Texas...what are the odds I would ever be around anyone associated with the Redskins organization?
We go outside to smoke a cigarette and when we come back I see Bruce Allen sitting 3 stools away from me on his cell phone at the bar! without thinking I said "Hey Bruce" as he smiled and noticed the Redskins cap on my head. I play it cool cause the last thing I want to be is some obnoxious overzealous fan.

So I mind my own business sitting at the bar watching the Baylor women playing on the TV. I overhear some of his conversation. I believe he was talking to DeMaurice Smith of the NFLPA. He was complaining about the league's salary cap penalties. I wish I could give out more specific details but I couldn't follow enough.

Eventually he hangs up and he instantly engages me... He said "what are you doing wearing that hat?" I mention it is because of my love for the Redskins at which point he stands up and shakes my hand. He asked me how long I have been a Redskins fan and where I was from. I told him I was too young when his dad coached the team and that I became a fan during Gibbs 1 era.. Some of the highlights.....I asked him about the salary cap fiasco and he told me in no uncertain terms they are going to fight it and so are the Cowboys.

He talked about how excited they are about RG3 and how Griffin is glad it wasn't Cleveland that moved up to number 2. After a few more minutes of friendly banter with myself and the group I was with ( who were all Cowboys fans but were VERY cordial in welcoming him there) he excused himself to make another phone call.

I go to the bathroom and low and behold, Kyle Shanahan walks in as I'm finishing my business. ( I swear I did not follow anyone into the bathroom to talk). He also comments on my hat. I welcome him to Texas and tell him I am a UT fan and remember when he played WR for Texas. I told him how excited the fans are at the possibility of RG3 and he replied "not nearly as much as I am" as we parted ways.
There is a lot of laughter coming from that party room the whole night. I turned my head a few times and I saw pictures being taken of RG3 with each Shanahan.

Eventually Bruce makes his way back to the bar and has a long conversation with another member of the party. The guy Bruce is talking to heads to the men's room and I take the opportunity to walk up to him and ask him if there is any way I could possibly meet coach Shanahan and he says "absolutely".

Bruce asks my name and personally escorts me into the room and introduces me to Mike. Mike shakes my hand and tells me thanks for the support and asks if I am from Waco to which I respond yes. At this point other members of the party notice this stranger wearing a Redskins hat.

One of them is none other than Dan Snyder. I acknowledge him and wave to him as he is a good distance away at the table. I then got the balls to speak up and said as I lifted up my beer "as the sole representative of Redskins fans worldwide in this room I would like to say welcome to Waco, we appreciate what you are all doing, and Hail to the Redskins" which was welcomed with smiles and a few "Hails".

I then thanked Bruce for taking me back there, shook his hand and walked back to the bar. I didn't get a chance to talk to RG3. He was in a conversation with someone across the table and I didn't want to interrupt.

A few minutes later I notice that the party has ended as they slowly start to leave. At this point I said screw it I want to try to get one picture with someone in that party. As I head out the door Mike starts heading to the bathroom, sees me again and gives me a tap on the back as he walks by.

Since I talked with Bruce quite a bit tonight I went up to him one last time and asked if it would be any trouble if I got a picture. He then yells out to Dan at which point Dan gladly comes over puts his arm around me and poses for two pictures Bruce Allen takes with my cell phone.

In between pics Dan said to me "we appreciate your support". I said thank you, shook his hand went back in to pay my bar tab then drove home a little after 9 pm buzzing and asking myself "did that really happen?" [/quote]

[url=http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?363733-My-dream-came-true-tonight.-Met-and-talked-with-all-the-top-brass-of-the-Redskins-%28Thread-Includes-Pics-MET%29]My dream came true tonight. Met and talked with all the top brass of the Redskins (Thread Includes Pics--MET)[/url]

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

Pretty cool story

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

Thanks for posting that piece NC_Skins. Much better than what I posted a few days ago...LOL!

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=NC_Skins;901893]Pretty good story by a Skins fan in Texas with him meeting up with Skins brass. I'm posting this here due to the relevance of the Skins fighting the cap mess. I tell you what, Bruce is one hell of a guy. Got to love a GM that shares a connection with fans the way he does.





[URL="http://www.extremeskins.com/showthread.php?363733-My-dream-came-true-tonight.-Met-and-talked-with-all-the-top-brass-of-the-Redskins-%28Thread-Includes-Pics-MET%29"]My dream came true tonight. Met and talked with all the top brass of the Redskins (Thread Includes Pics--MET)[/URL][/quote]
Where is the picture?

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;901966]Where is the picture?[/quote]

It's on like page 3 or 4 of the thread. Guess it was too hard to just edit the OP's post. :doh:

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

i feel dirty every time i visit extremeskins. im going to have to spend extra time here today to help me feel clean again.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;901966]Where is the picture?[/quote]

Where is the birth certificate!

Whoops, sorry wrong thread...

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=mbedner3420;901975]Where is the birth certificate!

Whoops, sorry wrong thread...[/quote]

That's awesome. Well done

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=mbedner3420;901975]Where is the birth certificate!

Whoops, sorry wrong thread...[/quote]
Hey, I think it was reasonable question. The story sounds credible, but the picture makes it a fact.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;901891]The other side of the coin here and, as NCSkins referenced, the Skins are not exactly a naive victim. No, you can't enforce illegal agreements [I]but[/I] it's not like the Skins didn't realize the "warnings" were part of a collusive agreement. I don't recall, however, DS or Bruce Allen coming forward and telling any one in the public - "Hey, the owners are secretly trying to influence how player contracts are being negotiated."

Essentially, the Skins gave a giant middle finger to their fellow owners. It appears the Skins basically told the league "We know you don't like our contract dumping but what are you going to do about it? Call the cops? Take your pick, either approve the contracts or provide the players with hard evidence of the collusion."

Legally, how does that affect the League's substantive ability to sanction the Skins for their conduct (the contract dumping) by restructuring the salary cap? Not sure exactly. It may not have any effect - again, illegal contracts cannot be enforced. Period. As a practical matter, and in an open court trial, however, it would certainly make all the owners look bad, possibly open the owners (including DS) up to "bad faith claims", may even allow the players to reopen their collusion suit, and certainly would piss off the players (who would probably remember it 10 years from now when the CBA comes up).

Are the Skins legally correct in asserting that there is no substantive basis for sanctioning them? Based on the facts that have come out and the language cited from the 2006 & 2012 CBA's and NFL Charter/By-laws (thanks Hoophead!), I am about as certain of that as a I can be. There may be language in the documents that provides the authority, but it isn't in any of the places one would expect to find such language and there is plenty of language indicating that there was no authority for the salary cap adjustment.

Is it in their best interests to pursue a remedy through a lawsuit or other formal action? Given the nasty consequences that could occur even if they prevail, I am pretty sure that I would advise them to use that as an absolute last resort.[/quote]

First off, imagine the implications for the league if one of it's owners had stood up and started screaming "collusion" in the middle of the labor battle. The union would practically own the league at that point, and I can't even imagine the kind of repercussions for us if that had happened. You could forget anything like the Griffin trade ever happening, for starters.

More to the point, whatever warnings were given were verbal and likely vague (they would have to be for legal reasons, I would think). The Redskins would likely say that they interpreted the warnings as telling them not to do anything improper, which they didn't. And, given the way other contracts were being handled, they didn't see anything untoward going on throughout the NFL.

So, the Redskins would probably say that the first indication they had that any kind of collusion was going on was the punishment being handed down. And I suspect that that is pretty close to being the absolute truth.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/22/nflpa-re-appoints-demaurice-smith/]NFLPA re-appoints DeMaurice Smith | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/22/redskins-hope-to-rally-support-at-league-meetings/]Redskins hope to rally support at league meetings | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=Mattyk;902705][url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/22/redskins-hope-to-rally-support-at-league-meetings/]Redskins hope to rally support at league meetings | ProFootballTalk[/url][/quote]

Why would any one of the 28 teams not penalized go along with this? Owners: 'OK Bruce, you can have the money back, we'll forfeit the $2million you essentially just gave us and the higher cap ceiling we enjoyed as a result of your penalty.'

I don't see that happening...

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=mbedner3420;902717]we'll forfeit the $2million you essentially just gave us and the higher cap ceiling we enjoyed as a result of your penalty.'
[/quote]

They HAVE to spend whatever percentage of that 2million that they otherwise would not have too. The whole fight between the players and owners is the owners want to spend less money. I'll leave the rest unsaid.

NM I'll say it. 2mil in cap space isn't enough to help most teams out, its dead money that gets wasted in the owners eyes having to pay out the 90% (or whatever it is) to the same player base they would have had without the 2 mil. IMO of course.

That's not including the difference in salary cap space the MCEC (or whatever it is) used as a BRIBE for the NFLPA. Even with that additional money they get to spend the player base is still the same players really.

If I'm the owner of a small market team or not 1 player away from being a SuperBowl contender I am pissed about the dick move pulled by the few in the name of the many. But I could be wrong.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=mbedner3420;902717]Why would any one of the 28 teams not penalized go along with this? Owners: 'OK Bruce, you can have the money back, we'll forfeit the $2million you essentially just gave us and the higher cap ceiling we enjoyed as a result of your penalty.'

I don't see that happening...[/quote]

Well it would be 30 teams, and I think there's a good chance a few owners didn't agree with the decision.

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=Mattyk;902737]Well it would be 30 teams, and I think there's a good chance a few owners didn't agree with the decision.[/quote]

Wouldnt it be 28 other teams because the redskins, cowboys, saints, and raiders were all found guilty of dropping the money on the cap

Re: Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess
 

[quote=WaldSkins;902741]Wouldnt it be 28 other teams because the redskins, cowboys, saints, and raiders were all found guilty of dropping the money on the cap[/quote]

That's what I was going off of.