[QUOTE=The Goat;959141]Whawhawhat?! Is this meant to be serious? There isn't a single Broncos fan I know, talking at least three dozen people here, who would ever want Mike back. Most of them wanted him gone well before the organization finally canned him.

What are you talking about?[/QUOTE]

And I'm sure you've isolated other variables with this sample of fans so they can accurately represent the population you are making that assertion for?

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

I would not equate the loss of Rak with the loss of Carriker. At the same time, Carriker was a much bigger loss than Goat and his DVR credit.

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;959147]Woah. Carriker is a huge loss on the pass rush front because he would push the pocket right up the middle in the face of the QB causing the QB to either not step up or try getting out of the pocket where our pass rushers would get him. Believe me we miss orakpo a lot but carriker is equally as huge of a loss.[/quote]

Carriker had 5.5 sacks last season. Not bad for sure.

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;959147]Woah. Carriker is a huge loss on the pass rush front because he would push the pocket right up the middle in the face of the QB causing the QB to either not step up or try getting out of the pocket where our pass rushers would get him. Believe me we miss orakpo a lot but carriker is equally as huge of a loss.[/quote]

I believe he had 5 sacks last year also. I must say I expected a little more from Jenkins this year. Makes me wonder how much damage his injury actually did to him.

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

[quote=hooskins;959148]And I'm sure you've isolated other variables with this sample of fans so they can accurately represent the population you are making that assertion for?[/quote]

Just being honest, I've never heard a Denver Broncos fan lament sending Mike down the road, never. Have you? Has anybody here?

Mike is somewhat of an enigma IMO. One of my relatives in Denver is a very successful oil man, and has done lots of hobnobbing w/ Denver "elite." He said Mike was a total ahole and not well respected there. Heard the same from one of the guys in my office that knows Plummer. I've heard a few players and other NFL personalities say Mike is a good coach, but that's about it.

[QUOTE=Dirtbag59;959098]Definitely stay the course with Shanny. For starters our offensive personnel is now tailored to his scheme and as Denver learned it's very hard to switch back. On top of that not many coaches can find Running Backs like they're long snappers. Also they've not only done a great job developing RG3 but Cousins looks to be coming along as well.

Denver realized they made a mistake letting Shanny go, the best COA is to keep him and find a defensive guy that can bring the D back to where it was the past decade.[/QUOTE]

Denvers best teams they have had in a while were last yeAr and this year. Wasnt too hard for them to adjust the scheme to life after Shanny. Also not sure about any regret comin outta rocky mountain high.
What have you seen in Cousins that makes you believe he is coming along? I saw a perfect spiral to a wide open Moss and two atrocious int's at crunch time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[QUOTE=53Fan;959151]I believe he had 5 sacks last year also. I must say I expected a little more from Jenkins this year. Makes me wonder how much damage his injury actually did to him.[/QUOTE]

Expected alot more fromJenkins. He was supposed to be like a bonus early round pick this year because he never played last yeAr. He might as well still be on the IR. Big disappointment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

We suck and next week our defense will revamp cam newton again giving him the best game he'll get and once.more we will discuss why HAZ ISNT FIRED.

dirtbag btw denver better than ever since 04-05 the D been better too no denver fan misses shanny he held that team.back.

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

[quote=The Goat;959150]Carriker had 5.5 sacks last season. Not bad for sure.[/quote]

One last thing I'll add;

Orakpo ranked 10th among (3-4) LBs in sacks last year (9 sacks)

Carriker ranked 7th among (3-4) DEs in sacks last year (5.5 sacks)

(Bowen was 4th among 3-4 DEs with 6 sacks)

[random note**JJ Watt last year had 5**]

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

[quote=punch it in;959156]Expected alot more fromJenkins. He was supposed to be like a bonus early round pick this year because he never played last yeAr. He might as well still be on the IR. Big disappointment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

Yeah it sucks because he looked promising from the preseason before getting injured; hell one of my magazines listed him as the 10th best 3-4 DE in the NFL; thats how much people praised this guy. Makes you wonder how much that ACL injury is affecting him or if he's fine, but is being a carson palmer worrying that he's going to re-tear it.

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;959161]One last thing I'll add;

Orakpo ranked 10th among (3-4) LBs in sacks last year (9 sacks)

Carriker ranked 7th among (3-4) DEs in sacks last year (5.5 sacks)

random note**JJ Watt last year had 5**[/quote]
Both r ok but doesnt mean itd change our D we have no pass rush. Now SF thats a team that is a real 3-4 . We need to go 4-3 our D is not built for the 3-4 no real MT our front 7 lacls pass rush and cant cover.

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

[quote=Deivybaby;959164]Both r ok but doesnt mean itd change our D we have no pass rush. Now SF thats a team that is a real 3-4 . We need to go 4-3 our D is not built for the 3-4 no real MT our front 7 lacls pass rush and cant cover.[/quote]

look, our defense last year wasn't great (13th) but it was good enough to get you to the playoffs, should we of gotten there; or if we had had this offense last year.

The problem with this years defense is

- Secondary
- Injuries
- Depth
- Motivation
- Coaching

Our secondary, even when we were healthy was very poor. Week one we got pressure on Brees. A push up the middle, outside containment and pressure from our OLBs. But our secondary started to break down come 3rd quarter time. Then of course, next game we had....

...Injuries. Orakpo like I said is showing how valuable he was to this team for those (like myself) who thought that we could win with Kerrigan and Rob Jackson. Carriker, as I mentioned before was that guy who would push the pocket right up in the QBs face. That was another big loss, and hurt Orakpo, because Orakpo could go after the QB and over pursue and the QB could escape either from outside the pocket or up the middle.

Depth is another concern. Last year--lets use Barry Cofield for this example--Cofield would go in on 1st and 2nd down and flop between series as to whether or not he would come out or stay in on 3rd down. We would always leave Bowen out there. Sometimes we'd leave either Carriker out there or Cofield or Neild. Well, this year we have no Carriker and no Neild, so that more time for Cofields big body to get over worked or for the likes of Kedric Golston, an inexperienced and still-recovering Jarvis Jenkins, and Doug Worthington. Those guys are all clearly a step down from the other guys I just mentioned. Come this offseason, we need to draft some 3-4 DT/DEs, because Golston and Worthington aren't getting pressure or doing as good a job as Carriker and Neild were. (Also theres Baker who is strictly a run stuffing NT, not a pass rusher (Neild could do both--oh and Neild might go through the same thing Jarvis is going through this year coming off a torn ACL...hell even Carriker could) . Again DRAFT DEPTH AT DL!!!!

Motivation is the last thing. Answer me this, how many 300+ lb guys are going to be motivated to go after smart or athletic or both, QBs who are just ripping apart their secondary. Theres no motivation to try to get to a QB in less than 2 seconds when the QB is doing quick passes against a crap secondary that we have. All the DL are probably thinking "Whats the point with the secondary we have!?!?" This is also where Coaching comes in...

...the players aren't responding well to Haslett and Haslett for the past 3 years has made some pretty dumb calls and believed in one thing on defense and decided to keep the game plan the same (having the defense stay the same after Ponder left and Joe Webb went in; Not adjusting to Amendola catching everything on us). I see no way Haslett returns. If we upgrade our coach, it makes our defense already 4-7 spots better just like that.

Bottom line, as soon as that secondary gets better and we get depth for the future, for all of our Defense, we'll be a drastically improved defense that, with our offense will be good enough to get us far in the playoffs. And theres no point of just switching to a 4-3, because we've spent all this money and all these seasons buying and drafting all these 3-4 players.

--fun fact; right now 6 of the 10 Top 10 defenses are a 3-4. And as for the 10 worst defenses in the NFL right now, 8 of them are 4-3 defenses with only Us and Baltimore as the 2 3-4s in the bottom 10 defenses..--

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

What I think has happened is the defensive secondary declined more and more given the talent level of QB they've gone up against. Josh Freeman was probably the worst QB the Redskins defense has faced and Freeman is a pretty good quarterback. With each passing week the Redskins defense was never able to rise to the occasion. So getting picked apart week after week became the norm. It now has the defense ranked dead last in the NFL.

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

after the season yes. and we shouldn't be tied to the 3-4 if our people run the 4-3 better. once rak and carriker left, the pressure that protected our secondary went away. i don't know if the 4-3 would even help right now, but i'm not a fan of the 3-4 i've seen here.

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

[quote=The Goat;959141]Whawhawhat?! Is this meant to be serious? There isn't a single Broncos fan I know, talking at least three dozen people here, who would ever want Mike back. Most of them wanted him gone well before the organization finally canned him.

What are you talking about?[/quote]

My "sources" came from posting on the Broncos forum back in 2010 when I was trying to find out certain aspects about Shanahan's coaching such as his system, handling of players, drafting, etc. In response to my inquiries I got more then one person talking about how they missed Shanahan and how firing him was a mistake. Of course this was during the McDaniels era so I guess from that perspective you could take it with a grain of salt.

Still safe to say I love offenses that produce great rushers like they're nothing and make things much easier for the Quarterback.

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

[quote=The Goat;959153]Just being honest, I've never heard a Denver Broncos fan lament sending Mike down the road, never. Have you? Has anybody here?

Mike is somewhat of an enigma IMO. One of my relatives in Denver is a very successful oil man, and has done lots of hobnobbing w/ Denver "elite." He said Mike was a total ahole and not well respected there. Heard the same from one of the guys in my office that knows Plummer. I've heard a few players and other NFL personalities say Mike is a good coach, but that's about it.[/quote]

What matters more? That an oil man thinks Shanahan is an ahole, or that people in the NFL think he's a good coach?

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

I cant stop shaking my head reading this stuff this week. Relying on opinions of a successful oilman to base my view...cant make this stuff up.

Has anybody seen the offense completely turned around and playing at a high level every week? Anybody with half a brain could tell that the defense, especially in the secondary, was going to struggle this year. And then look at the injuries and suspensions on the defensive side of the ball, how are we not the worst D in the league?

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

[quote=Deivybaby;959160]We suck and next week our defense will revamp cam newton again giving him the best game he'll get and once.more we will discuss why HAZ ISNT FIRED.

dirtbag btw denver better than ever since 04-05 the D been better too no denver fan misses shanny he held that team.back.[/quote]

It's just wrong to say no fans missed Shanahan. I will say that people trusted Bowlen a lot more than anyone trusted Snyder, and so there was acceptance of his decision. I have family and friends in Colo, having lived and worked in Colo Springs for about 8 years in the late 1990's early 2000's and Shanahan's work on the offense was always respected. Sadly, his failings are about what we see now, an inability to have a strong defense, and consistent DC changes. In the throngs of the Josh McDaniels fiasco there was definitely a questioning of Shanahan's firing, but like anything in football, winning cures fans ills, and they latched on to Tebow, and now Peyton is certainly leading them well.

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;959165]look, our defense last year wasn't great (13th) but it was good enough to get you to the playoffs, should we of gotten there; or if we had had this offense last year.

The problem with this years defense is

- Secondary
- Injuries
- Depth
- Motivation
- Coaching

Our secondary, even when we were healthy was very poor. Week one we got pressure on Brees. A push up the middle, outside containment and pressure from our OLBs. But our secondary started to break down come 3rd quarter time. Then of course, next game we had....

...Injuries. Orakpo like I said is showing how valuable he was to this team for those (like myself) who thought that we could win with Kerrigan and Rob Jackson. Carriker, as I mentioned before was that guy who would push the pocket right up in the QBs face. That was another big loss, and hurt Orakpo, because Orakpo could go after the QB and over pursue and the QB could escape either from outside the pocket or up the middle.

Depth is another concern. Last year--lets use Barry Cofield for this example--Cofield would go in on 1st and 2nd down and flop between series as to whether or not he would come out or stay in on 3rd down. We would always leave Bowen out there. Sometimes we'd leave either Carriker out there or Cofield or Neild. Well, this year we have no Carriker and no Neild, so that more time for Cofields big body to get over worked or for the likes of Kedric Golston, an inexperienced and still-recovering Jarvis Jenkins, and Doug Worthington. Those guys are all clearly a step down from the other guys I just mentioned. Come this offseason, we need to draft some 3-4 DT/DEs, because Golston and Worthington aren't getting pressure or doing as good a job as Carriker and Neild were. (Also theres Baker who is strictly a run stuffing NT, not a pass rusher (Neild could do both--oh and Neild might go through the same thing Jarvis is going through this year coming off a torn ACL...hell even Carriker could) . Again DRAFT DEPTH AT DL!!!!

Motivation is the last thing. Answer me this, how many 300+ lb guys are going to be motivated to go after smart or athletic or both, QBs who are just ripping apart their secondary. Theres no motivation to try to get to a QB in less than 2 seconds when the QB is doing quick passes against a crap secondary that we have. All the DL are probably thinking "Whats the point with the secondary we have!?!?" This is also where Coaching comes in...

...the players aren't responding well to Haslett and Haslett for the past 3 years has made some pretty dumb calls and believed in one thing on defense and decided to keep the game plan the same (having the defense stay the same after Ponder left and Joe Webb went in; Not adjusting to Amendola catching everything on us). I see no way Haslett returns. If we upgrade our coach, it makes our defense already 4-7 spots better just like that.

Bottom line, as soon as that secondary gets better and we get depth for the future, for all of our Defense, we'll be a drastically improved defense that, with our offense will be good enough to get us far in the playoffs. And theres no point of just switching to a 4-3, because we've spent all this money and all these seasons buying and drafting all these 3-4 players.

--fun fact; right now 6 of the 10 Top 10 defenses are a 3-4. And as for the 10 worst defenses in the NFL right now, 8 of them are 4-3 defenses with only Us and Baltimore as the 2 3-4s in the bottom 10 defenses..--[/quote]

Good post, one point I would make is that we are playing our DLine Depth now, and as our primary guys return (hopefully close to full strength or at it) we may very well see that our depth is good because a lot of these guys that are playing now will go back to rotational playing time, where they can come in at the best time for their strengths. I know this year has been a killer, but if we are able to strengthen our safeties and CBs in draft and FA, our defense may end up benefitting from the playing time these role players are getting.

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

[quote=Deivybaby;959160]We suck and next week our defense will revamp cam newton again giving him the best game he'll get and once.more we will discuss why HAZ ISNT FIRED.

dirtbag btw denver better than ever since 04-05 the D been better too no denver fan misses shanny he held that team.back.[/quote]

Yep! History proves that this will be the game that puts Cams game back on track. We will be the team to give him back the name "SuperCam". Some of you know what Im talking about. Just watch and see...

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

[quote=44ever;959215]Yep! History proves that this will be the game that puts Cams game back on track. We will be the team to give him back the name "SuperCam". Some of you know what Im talking about. Just watch and see...[/quote]
Still sad knowing we gave vick his best game ever on mnf. Tougher times in d.c man.

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

The Patriots switched from a 3-4 to a 4-3 last year but had problems adjusting to it; however, this year Belichick tweaked their 4-3. He now uses two large DT with hybrid DE/LBs in the front 7 (3-4 type of personnel). This gives them speed to contain outside rushers and puts them in a better position against short and screen passes. It also allows flexibility to switch back and forth between a 3-4 and 4-3. Teams don't know what to prepare for week after week. The Pats went from being ranked 31st in yards per play in 2011 to 8th in 2012. I'm not saying we should switch to a 4-3. What I am saying is our defense needs to become more innovative. Clearly what we're doing now isn't working. There's no where to go but up when you're ranked dead last.

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;959165]look, our defense last year wasn't great (13th) but it was good enough to get you to the playoffs, should we of gotten there; or if we had had this offense last year.

The problem with this years defense is

- Secondary
- Injuries
- Depth
- Motivation
- Coaching

Our secondary, even when we were healthy was very poor. Week one we got pressure on Brees. A push up the middle, outside containment and pressure from our OLBs. But our secondary started to break down come 3rd quarter time. Then of course, next game we had....

...Injuries. Orakpo like I said is showing how valuable he was to this team for those (like myself) who thought that we could win with Kerrigan and Rob Jackson. Carriker, as I mentioned before was that guy who would push the pocket right up in the QBs face. That was another big loss, and hurt Orakpo, because Orakpo could go after the QB and over pursue and the QB could escape either from outside the pocket or up the middle.

Depth is another concern. Last year--lets use Barry Cofield for this example--Cofield would go in on 1st and 2nd down and flop between series as to whether or not he would come out or stay in on 3rd down. We would always leave Bowen out there. Sometimes we'd leave either Carriker out there or Cofield or Neild. Well, this year we have no Carriker and no Neild, so that more time for Cofields big body to get over worked or for the likes of Kedric Golston, an inexperienced and still-recovering Jarvis Jenkins, and Doug Worthington. Those guys are all clearly a step down from the other guys I just mentioned. Come this offseason, we need to draft some 3-4 DT/DEs, because Golston and Worthington aren't getting pressure or doing as good a job as Carriker and Neild were. (Also theres Baker who is strictly a run stuffing NT, not a pass rusher (Neild could do both--oh and Neild might go through the same thing Jarvis is going through this year coming off a torn ACL...hell even Carriker could) . Again DRAFT DEPTH AT DL!!!!

Motivation is the last thing. Answer me this, how many 300+ lb guys are going to be motivated to go after smart or athletic or both, QBs who are just ripping apart their secondary. Theres no motivation to try to get to a QB in less than 2 seconds when the QB is doing quick passes against a crap secondary that we have. All the DL are probably thinking "Whats the point with the secondary we have!?!?" This is also where Coaching comes in...

...the players aren't responding well to Haslett and Haslett for the past 3 years has made some pretty dumb calls and believed in one thing on defense and decided to keep the game plan the same (having the defense stay the same after Ponder left and Joe Webb went in; Not adjusting to Amendola catching everything on us). I see no way Haslett returns. If we upgrade our coach, it makes our defense already 4-7 spots better just like that.

Bottom line, as soon as that secondary gets better and we get depth for the future, for all of our Defense, we'll be a drastically improved defense that, with our offense will be good enough to get us far in the playoffs. And theres no point of just switching to a 4-3, because we've spent all this money and all these seasons buying and drafting all these 3-4 players.

--fun fact; right now 6 of the 10 Top 10 defenses are a 3-4. And as for the 10 worst defenses in the NFL right now, 8 of them are 4-3 defenses with only Us and Baltimore as the 2 3-4s in the bottom 10 defenses..--[/quote]

If you really think our defense was good last ywar your delusional.and didnt watch all of the games. We let all the teams thar had a good offense destroy us we onlt took advantage of the rams and surprise giants and one good mnf dallas game. Other than that it was not pretty or good .

We can have a secondary which will help but our pass rush is not good even with orakpo and carriker we domt have a 3-4 defenase. Notice the steelers and ravens and texans they have the right guys and coordinators we sont have the right staff either ive read we have a 4-3 staff for the 3-4.

Our D wasnt good last year at all imo i mean it was better with landry and oj but not really good.

Lets go back to the 4-3 and just try it out all of our players other than bowen have 4-3 .

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

[quote=SKINS73;959219]The Patriots switched from a 3-4 to a 4-3 last year but had problems adjusting to it; however, this year Belichick tweaked their 4-3. He now uses two large DT with hybrid DE/LBs in the front 7 (3-4 type of personnel). This gives them speed to contain outside rushers and puts them in a better position against short and screen passes. It also allows flexibility to switch back and forth between a 3-4 and 4-3. Teams don't know what to prepare for week after week. The Pats went from being ranked 31st in yards per play in 2011 to 8th in 2012. I'm not saying we should switch to a 4-3. What I am saying is our defense needs to become more innovative. Clearly what we're doing now isn't working. There's no where to go but up when you're ranked dead last.[/quote]

Agreed.

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

[quote=44ever;959215]Yep! History proves that this will be the game that puts Cams game back on track. We will be the team to give him back the name "SuperCam". Some of you know what Im talking about. Just watch and see...[/quote]

Sadly I agree. I don't know for sure, but I think every team we've played this year has had a receive go over 100 yards in receptions. That said, I think RG3 has a good chance to put up some impressive numbers of his own.

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

[quote=SKINS73;959225]Sadly I agree. I don't know for sure, but I think every team we've played this year has had a receive go over 100 yards in receptions. That said, I think RG3 has a good chance to put up some impressive numbers of his own.[/quote]

Its amazing that the excitement of having RG3 cant even spark this team. I just hope the Skins don't lul RG3 to sleep and make him like all the rest that have come here in recent years. This team will put his character to the test for sure.

As much as I love having RG3 in DC, I almost hate it. For his sake.

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

The primary problem with our defense right now is the lack of an effective pass rush. Part of the pass rush problem is due to injury. Most significantly, the injury to Brian Orakpo.

Another part of the pass rush problem is due to the utter lack of aggressiveness and creativity by Jim Haslett. In the Pttsburgh game Haslett did call one cover zero defense that I recall which resulted in forcing the Steelers into a field goal attempt. But there have also been too many weak three man rushes to suit me.

In today's NFL, good pass coverage alone just isn't going to get the job done on defense - even for teams that have excellent secondaries. Teams like the Skins that have little pass rush and a poor secondary are sure to get toasted week after week.

Right now, the only alternative for the Skins is to get very aggressive and creative with blitz packages and upset the timing of the offense. It may be risky, but it's all we've got. If Haslett isn't up to the task of finding a way to get more pressure on opposing QB's with the personnel he has now, then he deserves to be fired.

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;959192]It's just wrong to say no fans missed Shanahan. I will say that people trusted Bowlen a lot more than anyone trusted Snyder, and so there was acceptance of his decision. I have family and friends in Colo, having lived and worked in Colo Springs for about 8 years in the late 1990's early 2000's and Shanahan's work on the offense was always respected. Sadly, his failings are about what we see now, an inability to have a strong defense, and consistent DC changes. In the throngs of the Josh McDaniels fiasco there was definitely a questioning of Shanahan's firing, but like anything in football, winning cures fans ills, and they latched on to Tebow, and now Peyton is certainly leading them well.[/quote]

This is what I've been saying about Mike and his history proves it out. I think he's a good OC. Our o-line is playing better than expected...we have a rookie RB tearing up the league and we're scoring points out the ying yang. But...like Norv imo...being a good OC doesn't always make you a good HC. Why does hls teams always have trouble with becoming good on defense? It's an honest question. It was the same thing in Denver. Why? I read an article...Rich Campbell I think???...that was talking about the zero blitz and the author said to expect to see alot of it because Shanahan likes it. How much input does Mike have on defensive calls and is that why hls defenses are usually not very good and he goes through so many DC's? Do you know if he's more hands on his defenses than other HC's Smoot? I'm really just trying to figure out why this is so often the case with Mike. The Pats and Giants don't ALWAYS have great defenses but often they do. Seems like Mike never does.

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

[quote=53Fan;959240]This is what I've been saying about Mike and his history proves it out. I think he's a good OC. Our o-line is playing better than expected...we have a rookie RB tearing up the league and we're scoring points out the ying yang. But...like Norv imo...being a good OC doesn't always make you a good HC. Why does hls teams always have trouble with becoming good on defense? It's an honest question. It was the same thing in Denver. Why? I read an article...Rich Campbell I think???...that was talking about the zero blitz and the author said to expect to see alot of it because Shanahan likes it. How much input does Mike have on defensive calls and is that why hls defenses are usually not very good and he goes through so many DC's? Do you know if he's more hands on his defenses than other HC's Smoot? I'm really just trying to figure out why this is so often the case with Mike. The Pats and Giants don't ALWAYS have great defenses but often they do. [B]Seems like Mike never does[/B].[/quote]

Check his rankings. I bet you'll be surprised.

[url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/]Denver Broncos Team Encyclopedia - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]

Contrary to popular opinion, the Broncos didn't win all because of Elway.

They had a top 10 D 7 times under him.

[QUOTE=Mattyk;959245]Check his rankings. I bet you'll be surprised.

[url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/]Denver Broncos Team Encyclopedia - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]

Contrary to popular opinion, the Broncos didn't win all because of Elway.

They had a top 10 D 7 times under him.[/QUOTE]

Stats don't lie

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

Well you have to look at the whole D.

We're shutting down the run, we're causing a ton of turnovers...but that secondary is getting torched. I can't blame Haslett for the personnel he was given to work with, which at the safety position is just complete garbage. Even this season, our CBs are playing well for the majority of the games but the secondary, mainly the safeties are giving up multiple HUGE pass plays every game. They can't be consistent for the whole game.

That's not a coaching issue, that's a personnel issue. Maybe Allen and Shanahan actually had confidence in the guys they brought in (Jackson, Meriweather, Williams, Minnifield)...or maybe this is what the cap penalty dealt us in 2012. We had a ton of positions to address in the offseason and weren't able to hit all of them with the money we had to work with.

I'm leaning towards keeping Haslett but also making the #1 priority this offseason to re-make the secondary. Hit it hard in the draft AND free agency and give Haslett so much talent to work with that if he does fail again, it's clearly all on him. We need to go after the best players available. No more trying to piece a secondary together. Wilson can stay, he's having a great year. Hall...bring someone in and make him work for his paycheck, or maybe try him at safety or nickel corner. Safety...none of the current starters should be starters.

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

[quote=Monkeydad;959250]Well you have to look at the whole D.

We're shutting down the run, we're causing a ton of turnovers...but that secondary is getting torched. I can't blame Haslett for the personnel he was given to work with, which at the safety position is just complete garbage. Even this season, our CBs are playing well for the majority of the games but the secondary, mainly the safeties are giving up multiple HUGE pass plays every game. They can't be consistent for the whole game.

That's not a coaching issue, that's a personnel issue. Maybe Allen and Shanahan actually had confidence in the guys they brought in (Jackson, Meriweather, Williams, Minnifield)...or maybe this is what the cap penalty dealt us in 2012. We had a ton of positions to address in the offseason and weren't able to hit all of them with the money we had to work with.

I'm leaning towards keeping Haslett but also making the #1 priority this offseason to re-make the secondary. Hit it hard in the draft AND free agency and give Haslett so much talent to work with that if he does fail again, it's clearly all on him. We need to go after the best players available. No more trying to piece a secondary together. Wilson can stay, he's having a great year. Hall...bring someone in and make him work for his paycheck, or maybe try him at safety or nickel corner. Safety...none of the current starters should be starters.[/quote]

I agree 200%, but I do sometimes wonder about Haslett idkkkk

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

i'd have to say our "solid" run D has a lot more to do with other teams seeing a weak secondary and choosing to make it explode on sundays.

we couldn't get the steelers to stop running the ball and eating clock and we can't stop anyone from passing. it's pretty tragic.

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

[quote=Deivybaby;959220]If you really think our defense was good last ywar your delusional.and didnt watch all of the games. We let all the teams thar had a good offense destroy us we onlt took advantage of the rams and surprise giants and one good mnf dallas game. Other than that it was not pretty or good .

We can have a secondary which will help but our pass rush is not good even with orakpo and carriker we domt have a 3-4 defenase. Notice the steelers and ravens and texans they have the right guys and coordinators we sont have the right staff either ive read we have a 4-3 staff for the 3-4.

Our D wasnt good last year at all imo i mean it was better with landry and oj but not really good.

Lets go back to the 4-3 and just try it out all of our players other than bowen have 4-3 .[/quote]

I watched all the games ma'am, and that defense was ranked in the better half of the league. I said that defense was capable, or for a better word, acceptable enough that should you have the right offense (like the one we have now) you could go to the playoffs and win. Just look at Atlanta and the Giants right now. They are arguably 2 of the best teams in the NFL. Atlantas defense ranks 20, NYs ranks 23, ours last year ranked 13th. Again the defense was not the problem last year it was the offense, and now we've fixed the offense but because this team can never have good balance its back to the defense sucking and the offense being good.

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

i forgot what a blitz looks like

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

I don't believe any D-Coordinator could succeed with our secondary.

Otherwise, our D is pretty solid in the front 7 and now that we've spent 2-3 years stocking our roster with 3-4 defenders, it would be stupid to go back to a 4-3 and spend another 3 years shuffling players back to that scheme. Fletcher, Cofield, Orakpo and Kerrigan can play in any scheme...the others are questionable. Maybe Bowen?

Move Rak and Kerrigan to DE? Then who plays LB?

We need to stay on the course we're on and not abandon the 3-4 so early. It we're in Year #5 and it's not working, sure, scrap the experiment but not yet...not before we've even assembled an entire 3-4 roster with quality players.

I think one of the main reasons for the secondary's lack of depth now might be because we had to fill in the front 7 with 3-4 players in the transition. In my opinion, the transition is not yet complete until we restock the secondary. THEN we can fairly judge Haslett's and the 3-4 scheme's performance.

Look at who we've added in the last three years on the Front 7 in the 3-4 switchover:

Orakpo
Kerrigan
Cofield
Bowen
Jenkins
Nield
K. Robinson
Blades
Kehl
Carriker
Riley
C. Wilson
Jarmon (traded)
R. Jackson
M. White
Worthington
D. Scott
V. Holliday (traded)


That's a load of quality defenders...but doesn't leave a lot of room or money left for the secondary. In the beginning of the transition, our secondary was decent with Carlos Rogers and Hall at CB and Landry and Atogwe with plenty of serviceable depth.

Reload the secondary and see if Haslett can do the job. THEN make the decision. Remember, starting over with a new DC and/or scheme will not produce immediate success either. I think we need to see this 3-4 implementation completely through..meaning addressing all 11 positions on D.

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

[quote=Monkeydad;959265]I don't believe any D-Coordinator could succeed with our secondary.

Otherwise, our D is pretty solid in the front 7 and now that we've spent 2-3 years stocking our roster with 3-4 defenders, it would be stupid to go back to a 4-3 and spend another 3 years shuffling players back to that scheme. Fletcher, Cofield, Orakpo and Kerrigan can play in any scheme...the others are questionable. Maybe Bowen?

Move Rak and Kerrigan to DE? Then who plays LB?

We need to stay on the course we're on and not abandon the 3-4 so early. It we're in Year #5 and it's not working, sure, scrap the experiment but not yet...not before we've even assembled an entire 3-4 roster with quality players.

I think one of the main reasons for the secondary's lack of depth now might be because we had to fill in the front 7 with 3-4 players in the transition. In my opinion, the transition is not yet complete until we restock the secondary. THEN we can fairly judge Haslett's and the 3-4 scheme's performance.

Look at who we've added in the last three years on the Front 7 in the 3-4 switchover:

Orakpo
Kerrigan
Cofield
Bowen
Jenkins
Nield
K. Robinson
Blades
Kehl
Carriker
Riley
C. Wilson
Jarmon (traded)
R. Jackson
M. White
Worthington
D. Scott
V. Holliday (traded)


That's a load of quality defenders...but doesn't leave a lot of room or money left for the secondary. In the beginning of the transition, our secondary was decent with Carlos Rogers and Hall at CB and Landry and Atogwe with plenty of serviceable depth.

Reload the secondary and see if Haslett can do the job. THEN make the decision. [B]Remember, starting over with a new DC and/or scheme will not produce immediate success either. [/B] I think we need to see this 3-4 implementation completely through..meaning addressing all 11 positions on D.[/quote]

Maybe but Wade Phillips took the worst defense in the NFL and made them into a top 5 defense in one season...

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

Wade Phillips doesn't have our secondary. :D

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;959180]My "sources" came from posting on the Broncos forum back in 2010 when I was trying to find out certain aspects about Shanahan's coaching such as his system, handling of players, drafting, etc. In response to my inquiries I got more then one person talking about how they missed Shanahan and how firing him was a mistake. Of course this was during the McDaniels era so I guess from that perspective you could take it with a grain of salt.

Still safe to say I love offenses that produce great rushers like they're nothing and make things much easier for the Quarterback.[/quote]

I stand corrected. A fan forum woud be the place to inquire...well done.

re: Hey Ho, Haslett has to go! (or maybe not)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;959185]What matters more? That an oil man thinks Shanahan is an ahole, or that people in the NFL think he's a good coach?[/quote]

Neither to me. I shouldn't even have posted that.