Commanders Post at The Warpath - Draft wrap-up 2013

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Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

[quote=Bucket;1007040]I was going off of what you had in parentheses.[/quote]

Yeah, hopefully they can handle that spot in the future. I know it is unlikely that all our DBs will hit their potential. But damnit, I wanna see it happen. 3 hall of fame DBs from this draft. YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

[quote=Bucket;1007034]So you have Hall going from #1 to not even in the starting lineup? Interesting.

Maybe I'm optimistic, but I'm [B]not willing to throw three rookies in to the starting lineup with even a practice under their belt[/B][/quote]

Heresy!

(No, actually, it's just common sense.)

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

[url=http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-path-to-the-draft/0ap2000000165172/Evaluating-the-Redskins-draft]Evaluating the Washington Redskins' draft - NFL Videos[/url]

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

[quote=CultBrennan59;1007046][url=http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-path-to-the-draft/0ap2000000165172/Evaluating-the-Redskins-draft]Evaluating the Washington Redskins' draft - NFL Videos[/url][/quote]

I agree with them. I'm really interested in seeing how JJ turns out. He's going to be a great addition. His good hands, and really quick feet are amazing.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

So how do I see our 2013 Draft equating to the NFL?

David Amerson- I think he was an OK pick. Was there anyone else available I would have liked over him? Yes, Jamar Taylor of Boise St. comes to mind. Then there were corners with some risk to them like Robert Alford and Tyrann Mathieu whom I would have preferred over Amerson. He literally is the definition of a Boom or Bust player. If we get the 2011 David Amerson, we may have gotten the steal of the draft, and hands down the best CB in the draft. If we get the 2012 Amerson, we have a wasted pick.
[B]Prediction:[/B] Amerson struggles to play man to man coverage deep and get beat by double moves constantly causing the coaches to move him to FS to make sure he wasn't a complete bust.

Jordan Reed- Jordan Reed is, in my opinion, our best player we drafted. Jordan Reed has constantly been compared to two NFL TEs; Aaron Hernandez and Fred Davis. If Jordan Reed is anything like those two guys we have a GREAT pick. Jordan Reed is basically a huge WR. He is a little faster than Hernandez and is 2 inches taller. He was also a top 10 High school QB recruit. I think he can be deadly in this offense and will be stretching the defenses away from Fred and vice versa. He can't block that well, but hey, nor can Fred.
[B]Prediction:[/B] Jordan Reed is the first pro bowl player from this draft class. He comes on BIG this year and even gets into contention for offensive rookie of the year. He takes over for Fred Davis and makes the fans forget about him.

Phillip Thomas- First let me say this; he's a value pick in terms of where he was supposed to go. Had we of picked him in the 2nd round, I would have bashed this pick if we picked him in the 2nd, because more is expected out of a 2nd rounder than a 4th rounder. The beauty of it is, is that he is a 4th rounder, so if he doesn't pan out, its not as bad as a 2nd rounder not being able to pan out. Thomas was a great safety in college. But he played against some of the worst competition. Also, he is slow and stiff in coverage. Its as if he gets within a few yards of the ball carrier and whiffs or hesitates. If you watch his tape against Oregon, he gets beat and made a fool badly in coverage. In blitzing on the other hand, he does a great job. Basically, the less space you make him cover, the better he is. There is talk that he could wind up being our starting FS. And I'm already going to say stop right there. He is a SS. And on top of that I don't think he's a starting SS. Was there any other safeties available when we picked him (besides Rambo)? Just Sanders Commings, who I wouldn't be pissed we missed out on or pick Thomas over him. But in terms of other players Marcus Lattimore was available, as was Quinton Patton and John Simon. No major biggies, we'll see how those players pan out in the pros.
[B]Prediction:[/B] Thomas splits some time with Meriweather at SS, in sub packages/3rd downs, but struggles. He becomes a full time special teamer, and in 4 years we never hear about him again after he leaves the Redskins.

Chris Thompson: I think this was a good pick. Then we picked the RB later and I questioned this pick. Then I watch a couple of his nice runs and I loved this pick. Then I read he missed almost all of last year with an ACL tear, and the year before he had major back problems. Then I just thought this was a solid pick. Lots of potential with this kid, but lots of injuries. Again, the beauty of this is that he was a late rounder. I personally feel that he could have been had in the 7th round. Who was better as a pick around this time? Jordan Mills a RT and Ryan Swope a WR were both more intriguing and need options more so than 3rd down back which wasn't as major of a need (but I'm not complaining).
[B]Prediciton:[/B] Thompson shows great flashes as a rookie making big runs, returns and catches as a 3rd down back, but the NFL injuries catch up to him and we only see him in less than 8 games this year.

Brandon Jenkins: I think this was a great sleeper pick. If he is anything near the Brandon Jenkins of 2010, he have ourselves one hell of a pick (like the next Jared Allen, being a late rounder with lots of pass rushing success). If he isn't anything like himself from 2011 or 2010, well we can always cut him.
[B]Prediction[/B][B]:[/B] Jenkins shows some good pass rushes in training camp and Preseason. He makes the team and is the backup pass rusher to Orakpo while Rob Jackson is serving his suspension. Once Rob is back, Jenkins moves to backup Kerrigan.

Bacarri Rambo: This was one of my favorite picks of the redskins draft history. A guy who was supposed to go in round 3, fell 3 more rounds. Boom, right there thats a value pick. Add to that that we needed a FS (or backup safety depending on how you see Meriweather and Thomas). And also add to that that he plays single high safety probably the best of any safety in the draft and we have my favorite value pick of our draft (probably one of the few times that the Redskins actually listened and picked I guy I've been wanting them to pick). I haven't been this happy about a Redskins pick since we drafted Colt Brennan (yes I know laugh it up/you all hope he pans out nothing like Colt did).
[B]Prediction:[/B] Rambo impresses in training camp, earning the starting FS job. He becomes a not great but solid to good FS for us for years to come, and shows Redskins fans very soon, that he is no Madieu Williams.

Jawan Jamison: Marquis Wilson, Reid Fragel, Connor Vernon, and Da'Rick Rogers all would have been better picks than Jamison. Not only had Shanahan just drafted a RB, but he also got a short, fast, back. Not that theres anything wrong with that, its just that there were better players of need available. But when its all said and done, I trust Shanahan when it comes to drafting RBs, so I won't judge. And after seeing his durability, size and vision, I like his chances better than Thompson.
[B]Prediction:[/B] Jamison becomes the 2nd back in our offense playing on not just 3rd downs but other downs as a fill in for Alfred. Jamison ends up becoming a better pick than Thompson and takes over Helu's spot, and causing Royster to be cut.

[B]Stud:[/B] Jordan Reed
[B]Dud:[/B] Phillip Thomas
[B]Sleeper:[/B] Jawan Jamison
Players out of this draft that will still be with the Redskins after 4 years: 3/7

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

Uh, Cult'. That prediction sucks big time. All of these guys have potential.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

[quote=RGIII;1007054]Uh, Cult'. That prediction sucks big time. All of these guys have potential.[/quote]Looked like Cult put a lot of work into it, I'd hardly say it "sucked". I feel like the Chris Thompson pick sucked, for reasons Cult listed. But I also thought Adrian Peterson's injury history would be an issue.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

[quote=RGIII;1007054]Uh, Cult'. That prediction sucks big time. All of these guys have potential.[/quote]

What a thought out and detailed response. All of these guys have potential, Mayock better save his pennies cause analysis like that is gold! You´re gonna be a star kid!!!

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

The good thing is the Redskins got two safeties out of this draft with starting potential. So hopefully one of them pans out.

There is a reason they both fell, one from late 2nd/early third to the middle of the 4th. And one all the way to the 6th. Both were inconsistent, Thomas plays terrible the first half at Oregon, then in the second half recovers a fumble, gets a sack and forces a fumble and from what I saw played pretty well the remainder of the game.

Rambo gets owned by South Carolina, just watch the second play of the game, and at Florida misses a lot of tackles, even Driskel, who is a good athlete but not elite (He definitively is not Kaepernick) got by him, but then gets a pick and makes a couple of solid tackles and ends up playing well.

They were both all-americans at one point so I am just hoping that at least one of them ends up being a starter, I am more inclined to believe that Thomas will end up being the potential starter just because of where they were drafted. There are not many safeties that are selected in the 6th or 7th round that end up making it in the NFL.

But I do not think there will be three starting rookies in the Redskins secondary this upcoming season, unless of course there are a couple of unseen injuries.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

What round Rambo was taken in is irrelevant. The kid can play. He has a nose for the ball and is an excellent deep centerfield FS ballhawk with great range. Rambo never fell in the draft for his play, he fell do character concerns. He's a better tackler than most give him credit for, he forces turnovers and he made an impact everygame when playing at UGA in the SEC. The game @ Florida Rambo missed just 1 tackle which was the Driskel 16 yard run. Otherwise He had a solid game.

What round you're drafted does not indicate playing time. The thing I like about Shanny is that he's for competition. No spot is secure. The best players play whether that's an undrafted FA or a 6th round pick. Bad NFL organizations have a systematic hierarchy that base starting and PT on what round a player's drafted or large their salary is.

I'm not a big fan of Phillip Thomas. He reminds me of a faster version of Chris Horton who's better in coverage. He's too inconsistent as a tackler. That said if Thomas can move to SS; I think that's where he's better suited to play.

Bottom line; it's ignorant to say and determine a player can't contribute because of where he was drafted or can't start because he's a rookie, Especially in April.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

People need to stop worrying about trying to predict the individual performances of a player and focus on the team performance. How the overall team improves from a predictable small role a 4-7 rounder can fill. Sure an Alfmo happens once in ten years for a team, but he is not the rule. They are depth guys who can impact special teams, and sub packages. After a couple years maybe they blossem into a starter.

Even in our 2nd round pick this year. Amerson probably not gonna start, but lets not kill the guy right off the bat because of that.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

[quote=vallin21;1007077]What round Rambo was taken in is irrelevant. The kid can play. He has a nose for the ball and is an excellent deep centerfield FS ballhawk with great range. Rambo never fell in the draft for his play, he fell do character concerns. He's a better tackler than most give him credit for, he forces turnovers and he made an impact everygame when playing at UGA in the SEC. The game @ Florida Rambo missed just 1 tackle which was the Driskel 16 yard run. Otherwise He had a solid game.

What round you're drafted does not indicate playing time. The thing I like about Shanny is that he's for competition. No spot is secure. The best players play whether that's an undrafted FA or a 6th round pick. Bad NFL organizations have a systematic hierarchy that base starting and PT on what round a player's drafted or large their salary is.

I'm not a big fan of Phillip Thomas. He reminds me of a faster version of Chris Horton who's better in coverage. He's too inconsistent as a tackler. That said if Thomas can move to SS; I think that's where he's better suited to play.

Bottom line; it's ignorant to say and determine a player can't contribute because of where he was drafted or can't start because he's a rookie, Especially in April.[/quote]
I get what you are saying, but there is some truth to the fact that for a player to get to the 6th round, most teams will have passed on him 3-5 times, or more. Not that they can't contribute, many do, but to proclaim him a starter off the top speaks as much to a team's current talent as it does the drafted player's abilities. A 6th rounder should not be able to come in, and from the get go be a better player then the previous year's starting 11 defensive players.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

[quote=vallin21;1007077]What round Rambo was taken in is irrelevant. The kid can play. He has a nose for the ball and is an excellent deep centerfield FS ballhawk with great range. Rambo never fell in the draft for his play, he fell do character concerns. He's a better tackler than most give him credit for, he forces turnovers and he made an impact everygame when playing at UGA in the SEC. The game @ Florida Rambo missed just 1 tackle which was the Driskel 16 yard run. Otherwise He had a solid game.

What round you're drafted does not indicate playing time. The thing I like about Shanny is that he's for competition. No spot is secure. The best players play whether that's an undrafted FA or a 6th round pick. Bad NFL organizations have a systematic hierarchy that base starting and PT on what round a player's drafted or large their salary is.

I'm not a big fan of Phillip Thomas. He reminds me of a faster version of Chris Horton who's better in coverage. He's too inconsistent as a tackler. That said if Thomas can move to SS; I think that's where he's better suited to play.

Bottom line; it's ignorant to say and determine a player can't contribute because of where he was drafted or can't start because he's a rookie, Especially in April.[/quote]

I like Rambo, and I love where he was drafted, but I was just saying if I had to pick one I am choosing Thomas. Also as far as being a ballhawk, Mayock called Phillip Thomas the best ballhawking safety in the draft, and a starting free safety in the NFL. He did not even mention Rambo when talking about ballhawking safeties. You usually do not fall all the way to the 6th round solely due to drug suspensions, there is obviously something else going on. But I loved the pick anyway because you got some one with a 3rd round value, a potential starter... in the 6th.
He missed at least three tackles at Florida, one on a screen pass to Gillislee (you can make the argument that he took a terrible angle but in the end he was there, Gillislee cut in and got an additional 15 yards), he also missed one on a reverse. He actually had a great game with a game saving fumble recovery at the end. I was just nitpicking because a lot of people seem to be nitpicking Thomas, but not Rambo.

In the end I love both picks, especially where they were picked and I think one of them will pan out. Its obviously impossible to say for sure which one but my money is on Thomas.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1007080]I get what you are saying, but there is some truth to the fact that for a player to get to the 6th round, most teams will have passed on him 3-5 times, or more. Not that they can't contribute, many do, but to proclaim him a starter off the top speaks as much to a team's current talent as it does the drafted player's abilities. A 6th rounder should not be able to come in, and from the get go be a better player then the previous year's starting 11 defensive players.[/quote]

I agree, I'm not saying a rookie late draft pick will start, but lets not say they have NO chance to start 3 months before training camp. IMO its to early to determine roster projections. My first post was responding to the poster above me.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

Notable draft pick jersey numbers:

[B]No sign of our new players' numbers yet.[/B]

Eric Fisher #72 Chiefs
Tavon Austin #11 Rams
Geno Smith #7 Jets (#12 not available)
Kevin Miniter #51 Cards
Honey Badger #32 Cards
Datone Jones #95 Packers
DJ Fluker #71 Chargers
Manti Te'o #51 Chargers
Demond Turfant #21 Falcons (you mean it's not retired?) :D
Matt Elam #31 Ravens

[IMG]http://www.shopthebills.com/images/products/display/ManuelHomeBackJersey.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://store.chicagobears.com/assets/item/regular/long_jersey2.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://secure.steelers.com/MediaContent/2013/04/25/20/Pittsburgh-Steelers-Nike-Jarvis-Jones--Replica-Home-Jersey_126123.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt313/mrose1977/Concepts/lacy27_zps1d00517a.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BIvsZ72CYAAQxZZ.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/931204_10151567041564684_478034470_n.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://prod.static.vikings.clubs.nfl.com//assets/images/imported/MIN/photos/centerpieces/Drafts/2013/Interior/three-presser-jersey-int-cp.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

Interesting picture. Ignore the horrendous Eagles photoshop. They're NOT getting white facemasks. Most of the players look like bobbleheads. Check out Eric Fisher.

[IMG]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8263/8683539065_99bed8ac0d_k.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

[quote=Monkeydad;1007089]Notable draft pick jersey numbers:

[B]No sign of our new players' numbers yet.[/B]

Eric Fisher #72 Chiefs
Tavon Austin #11 Rams
Geno Smith #7 Jets (#12 not available)
Kevin Miniter #51 Cards
Honey Badger #32 Cards
Datone Jones #95 Packers
DJ Fluker #71 Chargers
Manti Te'o #51 Chargers
Demond Turfant #21 Falcons (you mean it's not retired?) :D
Matt Elam #31 Ravens

[IMG]http://www.shopthebills.com/images/products/display/ManuelHomeBackJersey.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://store.chicagobears.com/assets/item/regular/long_jersey2.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://secure.steelers.com/MediaContent/2013/04/25/20/Pittsburgh-Steelers-Nike-Jarvis-Jones--Replica-Home-Jersey_126123.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt313/mrose1977/Concepts/lacy27_zps1d00517a.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BIvsZ72CYAAQxZZ.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/931204_10151567041564684_478034470_n.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://prod.static.vikings.clubs.nfl.com//assets/images/imported/MIN/photos/centerpieces/Drafts/2013/Interior/three-presser-jersey-int-cp.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

If I had to guess, Amerson gets 27, Thomas 22, Rambo 38, Thompson 34, Jenkins 90, Jamison 25, Reed 86

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

So are most higher on Rambo than Thomas?

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

[quote=Mattyk;1007098]So are most higher on Rambo than Thomas?[/quote]

It seems that way and I don't get why. I am high on both of them and feel they both will start, but I like Thomas a bit better.

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1007098]So are most higher on Rambo than Thomas?[/QUOTE]

Not me, I think most just like his name or something. Thomas is overall a better player IMO. I think this time next though, we will all be saying how good amerson is

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

[quote=skinsfaninok;1007103]Not me, I think most just like his name or something. Thomas is overall a better player IMO. I think this time next though, we will all be saying how good amerson is[/quote]

I am saying that now.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1007102]It seems that way and I don't get why. I am high on both of them and feel they both will start, but I like Thomas a bit better.[/quote]

I like them both from what I've seen. Rambo is bigger and faster though, if it weren't for the off the field issues he's probably a 3rd rounder at worst.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

[quote=Mattyk;1007109]I like them both from what I've seen. Rambo is bigger and faster though, if it weren't for the off the field issues he's probably a 3rd rounder at worst.[/quote]

Yes, Rambo is faster. I thought they were the same size. I think Rambo ends up being the FS and Thomas ends up being the SS.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

[quote=Mattyk;1007098]So are most higher on Rambo than Thomas?[/quote]

Well, I am. Thomas just looks like a Chris Horton, where as Rambo looks like a potential Eric Weddle. A lot of the Redskin Insiders have been very high on Rambo and have been bashing Phillip Thomas. Phillip Thomas just looks stiff in coverage, whereas Rambo looks fluid. Rambo went against the best of the SEC and held up well. He missed 4 games earlier in the year due to a suspension for a failed drug test. Thomas went against the mountain west which doesn't have the NFL talent and all his picks came against bad teams, with QBs who forced the ball into double or triple coverage. He was an all american because of his 8 picks. The year before Rambo was an all american because he played a full season and also had 8 picks. The difference is that his 8 picks came against SEC competition, the best of the best. Look at what Phillip Thomas did when he played SMU, Oregon, and Boise St. and you see a guy who got picked on and lost in pass coverage. Rambo wasn't perfect if you see he had 2 jump balls snatched out of his hands against S. Carolina and Alabama, but those are much more coachable than being stiff in coverage, lost at times in coverage, and studder stepping when going to make a tackle.

Again though, the beauty of this draft is A) we got 2 safeties so hopefully one pans out (and hopefully we didn't just draft he devin thomas and malcolm kelly of safeties) B) we spent 4th and 6th round picks on these guys, so its not like we spent a high pick on them and can't cut them.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

[quote=SirLK26;1007112]In other words, you like Rambo a little better?[/quote]

I'm really not sure yet. I'll wait to see them on the field. Sounds like Thomas might be more ready to play right off the bat. Rambo might have more upside in the long run.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

It's amazing to me that we are comparing Thomas to Chris Horton.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

[quote=Mattyk;1007114]I'm really not sure yet. I'll wait to see them on the field. Sounds like Thomas might be more ready to play right off the bat. Rambo might have more upside in the long run.[/quote]

I think that's about right as well.. Thomas may make more plays initially based on his instincts and awareness but as the league gets tape on him his weaknesses may be exposed. Rambo is more of a true rover FS and may ultimately settle in that role with Thomas playing more sub packages and SS. Either way, I think we improved the secondary on draft day.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

Although I think Rambo is and will prove to be the better overall player; Thomas is a VERY good Blitzer and a pretty reliable tackler as an in the box S. If he's put at SS he'll be a decent starter. This Rambo/Thomas topic is good, but remember there both Redskins, and if they can help our secondary I'm all for it.

[QUOTE=EARTHQUAKE2689;1007115]It's amazing to me that we are comparing Thomas to Chris Horton.[/QUOTE]

Horton had heart he just wasn't talented enough, but that dude played hard

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

After Rambo cuts the first guy in half with a machete, no receiver will come over the middle again.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

As far as I'm concerned, we drafted three safeties. That's because I think Amerson's best position would be FS. Nevertheless, if Amerson can play CB we really win big by picking him.

I like all three of the DB's we picked. I admit that Phillip Thomas is my favorite. He is an exciting playmaker with outstanding ball skills and blitzing ability. Bacarri Rambo seems to have everything you would want in a FS. I'm very high on him, as well.

Like Mike Shanahan, I love having competition for jobs on the team. It prevents complacency. Players either compete hard for jobs or they eliminate themselves. As a bonus, the winners become better players because of the competition they faced.

I just like the idea that there will be plenty of competition for DB jobs this season. Put the players on the field, let them compete, and may the best men win.

Amerson said the Skins have only talked to him about playing corner. We seem to have plenty of options already at safety.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

[quote=Mattyk;1007133]Amerson said the Skins have only talked to him about playing corner. We seem to have plenty of options already at safety.[/quote]

I'm aware of that, but what if he he doesn't make it at corner?

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1007134]I'm aware of that, but what if he he doesn't make it at corner?[/quote]

Then we cut him and move on.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1007134]I'm aware of that, but what if he he doesn't make it at corner?[/quote]

Let's see what he does at corner first. If he can't make it there he's probably not worth keeping around for very long.

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

What if?
What if?
What if he becomes a five time pro bowler?

Re: Draft wrap-up 2013

[quote=Mattyk;1007133]Amerson said the Skins have only talked to him about playing corner. We seem to have plenty of options already at safety.[/quote]

Amerson may be an Antrell Rolle type where he starts at CB for a few seasons before transitioning to a S which may be his ultimate position. Agreed that they will consider him only a CB until he shows otherwise though.