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[quote=CultBrennan59;1010346]So Gronk needs back surgery.

[url=http://tracking.si.com/2013/05/29/rob-gronkowski-needs-back-surgery/?sct=hp_t2_a2&eref=sihp]Report: Rob Gronkowski needs back surgery, likely to miss part of training*camp | SI Wire[/url]

When do you go from considering him a star to a bust?[/quote]Some people just age early. Cooley is an obvious example.

Gronk is going to be a very good NFL player over the next five years, but I doubt he's ever going to have a three year stretch in his career like he did from ages 21-23.

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[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/30/seahawks-moffitt-was-banned-from-mall-before-urination-arrest/]Seahawks’ Moffitt was banned from mall before urination arrest | ProFootballTalk[/url]

man this is some funny sh*t. Seahawks players really in the headlines alot these days for all the wrong reasons.

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2nd back surgery for Gronk I believe, that can't be good. He's probably one of those guys that will be done by 30.

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Sucks for the Patriots and Gronk. Really could have been in the discussion for the best tight end ever, but now injuries might ruin his career.

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[url=http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2013/5/30/4378574/dallas-cowboys-2013-draft-board-leaked-almost-complete-7-round-board]Dallas Cowboys 2013 Draft Board Leaked: All Seven Rounds! - Blogging The Boys[/url]


Interesting to say the least. I still find it funny they gave Frederick a 2nd round grade and still picked him in the 1st. Quite interesting to see the QBs they have graded as well.

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[quote=Mattyk;1010412]2nd back surgery for Gronk I believe, that can't be good. He's probably one of those guys that will be done by 30.[/quote]


Some would say the same about 2 total knee reconstructions .As with Bob I hope Gronk comes back football needs the good guys.

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[quote=Giantone;1010438]Some would say the same about 2 total knee reconstructions .As with Bob I hope Gronk comes back football needs the good guys.[/quote]

That is actually a great point. They both have been injured in college and in the pros. Would suck to see that much potential go to waste because of the injury bug.

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[quote=Giantone;1010438]Some would say the same about 2 total knee reconstructions .As with Bob I hope Gronk comes back football needs the good guys.[/quote]

Gronk has also had 4 operations on his arm and a broken ankle, and he plays a higher contact position.

I think football would be fine without another meathead like Gronk.

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[quote=Mattyk;1010443]Gronk has also had 4 operations on his arm and a broken ankle, and he plays a higher contact position.

I think football would be fine without another meathead like Gronk.[/quote]

Fully agree.

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[quote=CultBrennan59;1010346]So Gronk needs back surgery.

[url=http://tracking.si.com/2013/05/29/rob-gronkowski-needs-back-surgery/?sct=hp_t2_a2&eref=sihp]Report: Rob Gronkowski needs back surgery, likely to miss part of training*camp | SI Wire[/url]

When do you go from considering him a star to a bust?[/quote]

I don't think because a player has to deal with multiple injuries within one time frame that classifies him as a bust. At worst, I think he'll be like Bob Sanders, i.e. effective when healthy, just never healthy. At best we know what he's capable of. But I think bust should be reserved for high draft picks who don't pan out for reasons like lack of motivation, no work ethic, taking the money and running, etc. Not guys who put in the work and have proven they are playmakers, but just had a couple of injuries with bad timing.

If Gronk is never the same after this, I still don't think he's a bust. He proved he belonged in the league when healthy. And yeah, he might have a short life span in the league, but that's not the same as some kid drafted high who lets the fame get to him, and never puts in the work. The word bust is just thrown around way too much imo, and this a prime example.

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[quote=NC_Skins;1010426][url=http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2013/5/30/4378574/dallas-cowboys-2013-draft-board-leaked-almost-complete-7-round-board]Dallas Cowboys 2013 Draft Board Leaked: All Seven Rounds! - Blogging The Boys[/url]


Interesting to say the least. I still find it funny they gave Frederick a 2nd round grade and still picked him in the 1st. Quite interesting to see the QBs they have graded as well.[/quote]

What I think is more interesting is that they didn't take DT Floyd, when he was at their spot, and ranked as a high 1st. But, Frederick was certainly more of a need, and they got an extra pick. Hopefully Frederick never lives up to what they think he is!

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[quote=CRedskinsRule;1010348]I doubt he would ever fall to the class of a bust.

He was drafted mid 2nd round, and has had solid production. I could name a couple mid 2nd round receivers who were busts, but really prefer not too. He had a bit of injury history I believe, and has performed well.

He may level out at below star level after his back injury- Ross Tucker said he was never the same after his. If it does then he ends up having a good, not great career in the NFL. [B]He was never going to be HoF material[/B], so you take the years you get out of him and be happy with it.[/quote]i don't know, he's on a feverish pace, even if you count last year. a 10 year career was a reasonable expectation:

7 more seasons at his current pace (his first 3 seasons averaged); 623 catches / 8,876 yards / 14.2 ypc / [B]126 tds[/B]

and the hypothetical pace had he not missed 5 games last season: 706 catches / 10,073 yards / 14.2 ypc / 143 tds

that bold number is definitely hof material

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[quote=mooby;1010445]I don't think because a player has to deal with multiple injuries within one time frame that classifies him as a bust. At worst, I think he'll be like Bob Sanders, i.e. effective when healthy, just never healthy. At best we know what he's capable of. But I think bust should be reserved for high draft picks who don't pan out for reasons like lack of motivation, no work ethic, taking the money and running, etc. Not guys who put in the work and have proven they are playmakers, but just had a couple of injuries with bad timing.

If Gronk is never the same after this, I still don't think he's a bust. He proved he belonged in the league when healthy. And yeah, he might have a short life span in the league, but that's not the same as some kid drafted high who lets the fame get to him, and never puts in the work. The word bust is just thrown around way too much imo, and this a prime example.[/quote]

I understand what you're saying. There are people out there though that look at players that were either drafted in the first round or handed big contracts and consider them busts or non-busts/lived up to the hype/good (basically 2 categories). I would say that while Gronk was drafted in the 2nd round so that isn't a first rounder, but was still a high pick he exceeded his expectations. Then he was handed his ginormous contract, which was well deserved, and after he got that contract he's gone from a pro bowler to injury prone/hardly ever on the field player that has had more surgeries than most players have until they're 30. He's only 24.

As for the whole "because a player has to deal with multiple injuries within one time frame that classifies him as a bust" I would disagree with that. If a player can't play whether its talent or not staying on a field because of injuries or off field trouble, those are all factors of keeping a player from playing, thus making them a bust because they can't play.

And remember you're only a bust if you have had a large contract handed to you or are drafted highly (1-2).

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[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/31/report-tebows-camp-is-privately-admitting-hes-done-in-the-nfl/]Report: Tebow’s camp is privately admitting he’s done in the NFL | ProFootballTalk[/url]


I said this shit before the draft. It was quite obvious he wasn't a good QB.


This is a blistering piece on him. Ouch.

[url=http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/9318760/how-media-mania-made-former-nfl-quarterback-tim-tebow-impossible-hire-espn-magazine]How media mania made former NFL quarterback Tim Tebow impossible to hire - ESPN The Magazine - ESPN New York[/url]


[quote] Midway through his first season in Denver, John Fox was standing on the practice field sideline one day when an errant football hit the ground well in front of an intended receiver's feet, skipped hard across the grass and shot into the unsuspecting coach's legs. Fox looked around, rubbing his shin with a pained "WTF?" look on his face, only to discover that instead of coming from a confused ball boy or a malfunctioning Jugs machine, the pass actually had been thrown by his new starting quarterback, Tim Tebow.[/quote]

[quote]When the Broncos defense was on the field, offensive coaches would often tell Tebow the first series of plays they wanted to run when the team got the ball back. Tebow would nod, and they'd separate. And then, invariably, a short while later he'd ask for the information again. Sometimes this ritual would repeat right up until Tebow had to duck into the huddle and call the play. As a result, despite starting only 11 games in 2011, Tebow was flagged for delay of game an NFL-high seven times. Worse still was the fact that, according to scouts, Tebow almost never audibled because he struggled to quickly and properly read defenses. And of all the deadly sins Tebow committed against quarterbacking, this was the worst: lacking the self-awareness to recognize and fix these shortcomings. Maybe the most shocking part of Tebowmania isn't that he has been cast out of the NFL after just three years but that he lasted as long as he did.[/quote]

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Wow and to think, lot of people thought he was awesome QB, enough to get something like this :doh:

[url]http://thebiglead.fantasysportsven.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/tim-tebow-tattoo.png[/url]

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I always hoped Tim Tebow would be successful. But he just ended up being a not broke Vince Young.

Actually that cowboys board is basically spot on. I agree with almost all of it. Especially QB

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[quote=skinsfaninok;1010508]Actually that cowboys board is basically spot on. I agree with almost all of it. Especially QB[/quote]

Leave it to Jerry Jones to get the board right, and still screw up the draft.

He passed on Floyd to take someone who would have easily been there a round or two later.

Sad thing is JJ is still better than Vinny. Vinny would have selected a long snapper with our second and then 5 or 6 WR's to go with Brandon Weeden, who he would have drafted last year (knowing Vinny, he would have traded up from the 6th spot just to get Weeden). We would still be the Cleveland Browns of the NFC if that clown was still around.

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[quote=Skinzman;1010510]Leave it to Jerry Jones to get the board right, and still screw up the draft.

He passed on Floyd to take someone who would have easily been there a round or two later.

Sad thing is JJ is still better than Vinny. Vinny would have selected a long snapper with our second and then 5 or 6 WR's to go with Brandon Weeden, who he would have drafted last year (knowing Vinny, he would have traded up from the 6th spot just to get Weeden). We would still be the Cleveland Browns of the NFC if that clown was still around.[/quote]

Hey, nick sunberg is an injury risk! Long snapper would have made sense I. The second

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End of an era

[url=http://www.profootballweekly.com/2013/05/31/pro-football-weekly-says-goodbye]ProFootballWeekly.com - Pro Football Weekly says goodbye[/url]

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[quote=SmootSmack;1010520]End of an era

[url=http://www.profootballweekly.com/2013/05/31/pro-football-weekly-says-goodbye]ProFootballWeekly.com - Pro Football Weekly says goodbye[/url][/quote]

Kinda sucks. Back when a weekly print was the only football news, I read them religiously even when they initially transferred to the internet it seemed they always had the best most up to date stuff. Not sure why I stopped following them but realy haven't read them in a couple years now.

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When I started playing....Fantasy, my entire draft would be handwritten through my issues of PFW
.......RIP

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i buy the pfw preview every year. it's probably my favorite. well rats darnit

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At one time PFW was an institution. Sucks to see them go but I guess they couldn't roll with the times.

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Well, with PFW closing, thats at least $25 back in my pocket with all the draft guides, NFL previews and fantasy magazines I'd buy each year.

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athlon, lindy's, and who else?

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So Eric Mangini to the Niners as an Offensive Consultant/Assistant. Peculiar move in my opinion

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Really? I felt like he had a better future on ESPN than back coaching...

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Agreed, that seems strange.

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[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/steelers-ot-mike-adams-stabbed-during-robbery-attempt-175413181.html]Y! SPORTS[/url]

lucky wasnt killed

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Still some great FA's out there. I keep forgetting Winston is still available.

[url=http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/43367/309/top-10-post-june-1-free-agents]Top 10 Post-June 1 Free Agents - Free Agency Update - Rotoworld.com[/url]

[QUOTE=CultBrennan59;1010628]Still some great FA's out there. I keep forgetting Winston is still available.

[url=http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/43367/309/top-10-post-june-1-free-agents]Top 10 Post-June 1 Free Agents - Free Agency Update - Rotoworld.com[/url][/QUOTE]

I've always felt that If free agents last this long it usually means they aren't very good anymore

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[quote=skinsfaninok;1010629]I've always felt that If free agents last this long it usually means they aren't very good anymore[/quote]

Yeah, thats pretty much true. You'll occasionally have that one guy whom lots of teams will want, but wants to take his time deciding and/or replace someone who gets injured in training camp.

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[quote=los panda;1010559]athlon, lindy's, and who else?[/quote]

USA Today keeps suckering me into buying their "special edition" coverage of the NFL. Then they have the nerve to have baseball coverage in there too. Yuck!

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[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9336790/ex-buffalo-bills-qb-jim-kelly-battling-cancer-jaw]Ex-Buffalo Bills QB Jim Kelly battling cancer of the jaw - ESPN[/url]

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[quote=CrustyRedskin;1010661][url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9336790/ex-buffalo-bills-qb-jim-kelly-battling-cancer-jaw]Ex-Buffalo Bills QB Jim Kelly battling cancer of the jaw - ESPN[/url][/quote]

Damn...wonder if he too got it "Michael Douglas" style

Hope for a full recovery for him

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[url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/page/greatestcoach9/greatest-coaches-nfl-history-joe-gibbs]Greatest Coaches in NFL History - Joe Gibbs - ESPN[/url]

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[quote=SmootSmack;1010666][url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/page/greatestcoach9/greatest-coaches-nfl-history-joe-gibbs]Greatest Coaches in NFL History - Joe Gibbs - ESPN[/url][/quote]

Good stuff, would like to see the voting cards though. How did your boy Schetfer get one?

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Top 10 for Gibbs, I can't argue with that.

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Yup. Didn't think he would crack top 5. Halas, Lombardi, Brown, Walsh, Noll, Shula, Belichick. (Unlike all of those, of course, he didn't have a HOF QB - or two (Walsh) - to build around). Didn't see him cracking those. Each had either longer tenure or more championships.

9th best in 80+ years of the NFL and probably about a 1,000 or so head coaches is nothing to shake a stick at.

What are folks top 5? Mine:
1. Halas
2. Brown
3. Lombardi
4. Walsh
5. Belichick

I don't see how you can have anyone other than Halas, Brown & Lombardi as your top three. Halas and Brown fundamentally redesigned they game. Between the T-formation and coaches calling the plays, the created the game of football as we know it and won a gazillion games along the way. Lombardi ... they named the damn trophy after him. 'Nuff said.

Never was a big Walsh fan, but, in terms of innovation, I grudgingly give him credit.