Re: Redskins "Name Change" Volume 10000000
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1026707]Skinzman is hurt

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/54258-redskins-name-change-volume-10000000-a-10.html#post1024961[/url][/quote]

Not hurt, just glad that someone from the media actually talked to the people associated with the HS's that I mentioned and said what I said about Oklahoma. I actually got my wish. Not that I hated Reilly, but was never much of a fan of his. That will be changing now, as I am anti-pc. Good to see someone actually talk to an Indian about this and not just assume they are right because of self righteousness.

Re: Redskins "Name Change" Volume 10000000
 

i just think it's weird that so many "analysts" and "journalists" are taking it up to talk on behalf of people that can speak for themselves.

the only really active group seems to be very very tiny and pretty extreme (they want all indian/native american related names wiped from existence).

why don't they start with the high schools that use the name first? you know, the ones that have a 68-99% native american student population and no official name complaints. why not try to get jackson's face off our currency instead.

it just seems like a phantom groundswell.

Re: Redskins "Name Change" Volume 10000000
 

When I was in the Outer Banks this summer I visited Roanoke Island (home of the Lost Colony & Virginia Dare ) and discovered the local high school (Manteo HS) is called the Redskins. Manteo was an indian that helped the English colonists and was the first non-Englishman to be made a Lord (he was named Lord of Roanoke by QE1) so there is some historical basis for the name.

Re: Redskins "Name Change" Volume 10000000
 

What about the Name Buffalo Bills? I mean, he killed Native Americans. Isn´t that worse?

Re: Redskins "Name Change" Volume 10000000
 

[quote=TheGuyFromOverThere;1026778]What about the Name Buffalo Bills? I mean, he killed Native Americans. Isn´t that worse?[/quote]

Buffalo Bill Cody was a buffalo hunter, hence the name Buffalo Bill. He supported Indian rights and employed a lot of Indians in his Wild West Show.

Re: Redskins "Name Change" Volume 10000000
 

[quote=That Guy;1026773]i just think it's weird that so many "analysts" and "journalists" are taking it up to talk on behalf of people that can speak for themselves.[/quote]

Do-gooder progressive white people are the worst. They do-good not out of principle but out of guilt, ignorance, and arrogance. That's what is so ridiculous about this. These buffoons have sort of moved this issue to the point where they're starting to establish "Redskins" are ubiquitously offensive. Not that any actual group is offended by it but a tiny vocal percentage of a group is and because these people are wired to try and please all people all the time they just have to do something about it. Most of the media can't actually articulate why it is offensive or who actually is offended. They just know a few people have said it is so it must be. Not critical thought at all. For these people doing good has no end. I'll really care about this when a substantive group of Native Americans band together and present a cogent argument as to why it is offensive and has been for some period of time. Since it seems a more substantive group of them actually consider it an honorary name I doubt we'll see that any time soon.

Reilly makes good points, but he's ignoring some of the points on the other side. And it's a bit of a stretch to compare the moving people to reservations to those that support the name change.

That being said, points like the state of Oklahoma and the origins of the name should be discussed.

I

Re: Redskins "Name Change" Volume 10000000
 

[quote=hooskins;1026864]Reilly makes good points, but he's ignoring some of the points on the other side. And it's a bit of a stretch to compare the moving people to reservations to those that support the name change.[/quote]

I agree. While I really like the positive points that Reilly makes, like Native American schools having Redskins mascots, he seems to imply that there is no Native American opposition to the name. Recent attempts to protest the name by the Oneida Nation, no matter how flawed or small, show that that is not true.

Personally I think that Dan Snyder should use his cash resources to help the Oneida Nation and others like them. Win the opposition over with gifts and there will be few left to complain.

Re: Redskins "Name Change" Volume 10000000
 

The media can pump up this issue up all they want, but at the end of the day there's just not strong enough opposition out there to push a name change. The media can also make it seem like it's a bigger issue today than it was 20-30 years ago, but it's just not.

Re: Redskins "Name Change" Volume 10000000
 

[quote=hooskins;1026864]Reilly makes good points, but he's ignoring some of the points on the other side. And it's a bit of a stretch to compare the moving people to reservations to those that support the name change.[/quote]

What points?

Re: Redskins "Name Change" Volume 10000000
 

[quote=Lotus;1026872]I agree. While I really like the positive points that Reilly makes, like Native American schools having Redskins mascots, he seems to imply that there is no Native American opposition to the name. Recent attempts to protest the name by the Oneida Nation, no matter how flawed or small, show that that is not true.

Personally I think that Dan Snyder should use his cash resources to help the Oneida Nation and others like them. Win the opposition over with gifts and there will be few left to complain.[/quote]

If 1 in 10 Native Americans are offended yet some other larger percentage actually find it to be an honor who wins?

I'd certainly want to hear more about it if say 25 or 30% were offended but that isn't the case.

The reality is there are always a small percentage of nay group that are upset by something...that doesn't mean they are right.

Re: Redskins "Name Change" Volume 10000000
 

well dallas fans are offended by cowboys because they are cowmen

[QUOTE=FRPLG;1026886]What points?[/QUOTE]

For every school that's kept the name redskins there are schools that have changed their name. If you'd like examples I can get them but they've been well documented.

The historical origins of the name are a racial slur.

And finally, equating those that want a name change to the reservations movement is a bit...extreme?

[QUOTE=Lotus;1026872]I agree. While I really like the positive points that Reilly makes, like Native American schools having Redskins mascots, he seems to imply that there is no Native American opposition to the name. Recent attempts to protest the name by the Oneida Nation, no matter how flawed or small, show that that is not true.

Personally I think that Dan Snyder should use his cash resources to help the Oneida Nation and others like them. Win the opposition over with gifts and there will be few left to complain.[/QUOTE]

I agree.

Florida st and the ncaa have gotten buy in from a Seminole tribe. There have been times when they've had strained relationships, but its better than no communication.

Re: Redskins "Name Change" Volume 10000000
 

[quote=FRPLG;1026888]If 1 in 10 Native Americans are offended yet some other larger percentage actually find it to be an honor who wins?

I'd certainly want to hear more about it if say 25 or 30% were offended but that isn't the case.

The reality is there are always a small percentage of nay group that are upset by something...that doesn't mean they are right.[/quote]

I agree about there always being someone who will whine. And the "How many must be offended?" question remains in the eyes of the beholder.

Someone should do an independent, impartial survey of Native American attitudes and publicize it widely. Earlier surveys were either not impartial or not well publicized.

[QUOTE=Lotus;1026894]I agree about there always being someone who will whine. And the "How many must be offended?" question remains in the eyes of the beholder.

Someone should do an independent, impartial survey of Native American attitudes and publicize it widely. Earlier surveys were either not impartial or not well publicized.[/QUOTE]

That would great. Would be great to see the NFL and various tribes could come together to find someone to do a proper survey.

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[quote=hooskins;1026890]The historical origins of the name are a racial slur. [/quote]Please prove it.

The name wasn't originally used as a slur, nor is it used that way by us.

People who are offended should sue Hollywood. That's where the majority of the bigotry associated with the name came from, and where the most money to actually do some good for the NA population is anyways. Heck, we should join that lawsuit on the activists side for the damage those old westerns causes our own name brand.

Re: Redskins "Name Change" Volume 10000000
 

[quote=hooskins;1026890]For every school that's kept the name redskins there are schools that have changed their name. If you'd like examples I can get them but they've been well documented.

The historical origins of the name are a racial slur.

And finally, equating those that want a name change to the reservations movement is a bit...extreme?[/quote]

The historical origins of the name came from Indians themselves, and they did not mean it as a racial slur against their own people.

As to the High Schools that have changed their name. That is not much justification, because the schools with heavy Indian population are not for the name change.

You brought up Florida State. But even that is not much of a point because the Indians that want the names to be changed have called the Seminole tribe that OK'd the name a bunch of sell outs. The Indians that you are defending are still against Florida State being called the Seminoles and call Florida State using the name racist. If they are the only ones you are willing to listen to, then you should be against Florida State being called the Seminoles.

Re: Redskins "Name Change" Volume 10000000
 

[IMG]http://images.thememepage.com/65zdzv.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Redskins "Name Change" Volume 10000000
 

Unless I've misread this but it seems according to a 2012 census, native Americans only make 1.2% of the US population. [url=http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html]USA QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau[/url]

I dont have a number, but not all NA's are opposing the redskins name.

I'm not sure what reservations really mean b/c it seems to be out of US legal jurisdiction- or at least they have certain rights to their areas, so....they aren't really apart of the US in my political view.

It really seems like just a couple hundred to a few thousand NA's in all of America could have an issue. Democracy protects us from the opinion of a few vs. millions.

I'm no longer concerned this debate gains momentum b/c it's not important.

Re: Redskins "Name Change" Volume 10000000
 

[quote=hooskins;1026890]For every school that's kept the name redskins there are schools that have changed their name. If you'd like examples I can get them but they've been well documented.

The historical origins of the name are a racial slur.

And finally, equating those that want a name change to the reservations movement is a bit...extreme?[/quote]
-so what
-no actually it isn't
-i think you're missing the point

Re: Redskins "Name Change" Volume 10000000
 

[quote=Green Monk Machine;1026909]Unless I've misread this but it seems according to a 2012 census, native Americans only make 1.2% of the US population. [url=http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html]USA QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau[/url]

I dont have a number, but not all NA's are opposing the redskins name.

I'm not sure what reservations really mean b/c it seems to be out of US legal jurisdiction- or at least they have certain rights to their areas, so....they aren't really apart of the US in my political view.

It really seems like just a couple hundred to a few thousand NA's in all of America could have an issue. Democracy protects us from the opinion of a few vs. millions.

I'm no longer concerned this debate gains momentum b/c it's not important.[/quote]
[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/54258-redskins-name-change-volume-10000000-a-2.html#post1024986[/url]

Re: Redskins "Name Change" Volume 10000000
 

[quote=hooskins;1026864]Reilly makes good points, but he's ignoring some of the points on the other side. And it's a bit of a stretch to compare the moving people to reservations to those that support the name change.[/quote]

I think he meant to ignore the points on the other side, because those are the only points that the media has been paying attention to. This article is more about exposing the readers to the side that always seems to get ignored in this argument, and it's about time that somebody brings these points to light.

Re: Redskins "Name Change" Volume 10000000
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;1026985][url]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/54258-redskins-name-change-volume-10000000-a-2.html#post1024986[/url][/quote]

Yeah, no thanks. I don't use wikipedia

Re: Redskins "Name Change" Volume 10000000
 

[quote=Green Monk Machine;1026909]Unless I've misread this but it seems according to a 2012 census, native Americans only make 1.2% of the US population. [url=http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html]USA QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau[/url]

I dont have a number, but not all NA's are opposing the redskins name.

I'm not sure what reservations really mean b/c it seems to be out of US legal jurisdiction- or at least they have certain rights to their areas, so....they aren't really apart of the US in my political view.

It really seems like just a couple hundred to a few thousand NA's in all of America could have an issue. Democracy protects us from the opinion of a few vs. millions.

I'm no longer concerned this debate gains momentum b/c it's not important.[/quote]


This is so scary. Is this how majorities think? If there are 2 Native Americans and they're offended than it's a problem.

Re: Redskins "Name Change" Volume 10000000
 

After today I'd be offended also.

Re: Redskins "Name Change" Volume 10000000
 

Washington "Mark Ass Tricks"

[QUOTE=whistler;1027955]This is so scary. Is this how majorities think? If there are 2 Native Americans and they're offended than it's a problem.[/QUOTE]

No, it's two thin-skinned people who need to focus on something important.

"Scary......." GTFOOH!

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[quote=Green Monk Machine;1026909]Democracy protects us from the opinion of a few vs. millions.[/quote]

Our system is also to supposed to work the other way too.

Re: Redskins "Name Change" Volume 10000000
 

[quote=Green Monk Machine;1027061]Yeah, no thanks. I don't use wikipedia[/quote]

They used the exact same numbers you did...

Re: Redskins "Name Change" Volume 10000000
 

Jeffrey Wright is an incredible actor and a smart guy.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2013/09/24/jeffrey-wright-defends-redskins-name/]Jeffrey Wright defends ‘Redskins’ name[/url]

[IMG]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/files/2013/09/wright913b.png[/IMG]

Re: Redskins "Name Change" Volume 10000000
 

good read

Re: Redskins "Name Change" Volume 10000000
 

[quote=whistler;1027955]This is so scary. Is this how majorities think? If there are 2 Native Americans and they're offended than it's a problem.[/quote]

Well see, the problem with that logic is that you assume everyone offended is a rationally minded person. I'm sure if I tried hard enough I could find multiple people offended about anything. But that doesn't mean they are all sane, level-headed people. Now before you start no, I am not saying that Native Americans are not rationally minded people, I am saying if you get up in arms about a very small minority of people that get offended over something a large majority of people don't care about, well then you've created a never-ending supply of problems that are far less important than serious issues that actually need to be taken care of.

[QUOTE=mooby;1028571]Well see, the problem with that logic is that you assume everyone offended is a rationally minded person. I'm sure if I tried hard enough I could find multiple people offended about anything. But that doesn't mean they are all sane, level-headed people. Now before you start no, I am not saying that Native Americans are not rationally minded people, I am saying if you get up in arms about a very small minority of people that get offended over something a large majority of people don't care about, well then you've created a never-ending supply of problems that are far less important than serious issues that actually need to be taken care of.[/QUOTE]

Think of the lawyers, you heartless bastsrds!!!!!!!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Re: Redskins "Name Change" Volume 10000000
 

[quote=mooby;1028571]Well see, the problem with that logic is that you assume everyone offended is a rationally minded person. I'm sure if I tried hard enough I could find multiple people offended about anything. But that doesn't mean they are all sane, level-headed people. Now before you start no, I am not saying that Native Americans are not rationally minded people, I am saying if you get up in arms about a very small minority of people that get offended over something a large majority of people don't care about, well then you've created a never-ending supply of problems that are far less important than serious issues that actually need to be taken care of.[/quote]

your logic offends me.

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[quote=Green Monk Machine;1026909]Unless I've misread this but it seems according to a 2012 census, native Americans only make 1.2% of the US population. [url=http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html]USA QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau[/url]

I dont have a number, but not all NA's are opposing the redskins name.

I'm not sure what reservations really mean b/c it seems to be out of US legal jurisdiction- or at least they have certain rights to their areas, so....they aren't really apart of the US in my political view.

It really seems like just a couple hundred to a few thousand NA's in all of America could have an issue. Democracy protects us from the opinion of a few vs. millions.

I'm no longer concerned this debate gains momentum b/c it's not important.[/quote]

You are also operating on the assumption that only Native Americans are offended by the name redskins when that is not the case. For instance, I think most Americans would be offended if they heard the word "chink" used derogatorly towards Chinese and Chinese Americans. Just because they represent a minority of the population doesn't mean we should accept it as tolerable. For better or worse what is considered socially acceptable evolves.

This is what happens when hippies are permitted to breed. <rolls_eyes>

Anyone using any kind of derogatory term immediately sets themselves apart as bigoted, depending on the intent. The word only has the 'power' others give it.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Re: Redskins "Name Change" Volume 10000000
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1028667]You are also operating on the assumption that only Native Americans are offended by the name redskins when that is not the case. For instance, I think most Americans would be offended if they heard the word "chink" used derogatorly towards Chinese and Chinese Americans. Just because they represent a minority of the population doesn't mean we should accept it as tolerable. For better or worse what is considered socially acceptable evolves.[/quote]

Except chink wasnt used by the Chinese themselves to describe themselves with it before the racists got a hold of it. Can chink be used against a Chinese person and it not be derogatory? Any time the intent is negative, its derogatory. Calling someone a dog is derogatory, but do we accept murdering puppies due to that? Are we lobbying congress to make all dog names not allowed?

Look at it this way. It has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Indians themselves used the term Redskin to describe themselves. Indians against the term Redskins have a choice to make. Side with their own ancestors, or side with the racists. They choose to side with the racists over their own forefathers. Which is one of the biggest problems I have with this whole debate. Why would they do that?

As far as socially acceptable. If this country wants to honor Indians. The VERY FIRST thing we should do is redo the $20 bill. It has a picture of Andrew Jackson on it. The president that pushed for the Indian Relocation Act and is responsible for the trail of tears. Yet very few, if any, asks for that. Have you ever heard of anyone raging against the term Redskins calling for the $20 bill to be redesigned? Lets also not forget that some Indians flat out call the term Native American racist. Does anyone care? Certainly not the people calling Redskins racist. They are inconsistent in their views.

As for what is socially accepted evolving. Then we need to get rid of the Green Bay Packers name as well. That is a derogatory term for a gay man. It started as fudge packer but has been shortened to packer. Do you honestly believe that someone talking about a packer today is talking about a meat packer? It is the word replacing "faggot" in todays society. I have heard it a fair amount of times when someone was talking about gay men, and it was clear it was meant in a derogatory way. I have heard an openly gay man say he cant stand the term. It is meant in a derogatory way. So why no outrage over the Packers name (other than PETA who do mean it as a meat packer)?

Its all selective outrage, and here in lies the problem with the white/black people feigning outrage over Redskins. They arent consistent with their views of morally acceptable. They are happy to have a stack of Andrew Jacksons in their wallets while referring to them as Native Americans. If they did just a bit of research, they would realize that some Indians call that racist... But do they care? Not at all...

Re: Redskins "Name Change" Volume 10000000
 

[quote=whistler;1027955]This is so scary. Is this how majorities think? If there are 2 Native Americans and they're offended than it's a problem.[/quote]

Such an idiotic statement deserves nothing but contempt.

I am offended at this. If anyone cares to join me, I think we have "a problem".