Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1036546]I don't understand this desire by certain coaches to pass the ball when they have a good running game. Baltimore is a good example of a team that has a good running game, yet insists on being a pass first team.

I also don't understand why our coaches don't adapt to the reality that we have a subpar offensive line. They are easily right now our worst unit on the team.[/quote]I think it's just because even the most efficient rushing offenses in the NFL don't put up a lot of points because it's difficult to get yards in chunks.

There was a run Morris had yesterday to the left where he broke a tackle and got to the outside, and a more explosive runner might have been able to get past the safety and take it the distance. But for Morris, it was only a productive run of 15+ yards. And ultimately, that's why they have to throw for their points. Even when the running game is working great, like it was yesterday, its still complementary.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1036421]I'm almost at this point. Dude is a one read QB, I never see him moving his head around until he's flushed out of the pocket and he HAS to look for another receiver. But then again, the [B]WRs aren't doing any him favors[/B], rarely is RG3 holding onto the ball for less than 5 seconds.[/quote]

\Its hard to tell because even the camera man knows which WR to follow by watching RGIII. A good eaxmple was the screen to (I think Moss) he had to see it was covered but he threw the pass anyways. Pull the ball down and either run, look for another WR, or throw it away. RGIII is regressing but he still has time to do an interview if the media calls.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1036378]If you could say anything to Mike Shanny what would it be?[/quote]

Mike, have you noticed that the offensive playcalling is a joke? Do you plan to continue to just sit back and watch the ship sink, or do you have the cojones to take the playcalling duties away from your son?

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1036407]The Broncos adjusted at halftime, the Redskins as usual didn't.[/quote]


Sadly, this isn't true. The Redskins did adjust. They stopped running the ball...I don't know if it was Kyle's way of trying to be too clever, catch Denver off guard and hope to put up a couple quick TDs, but it was a horrible adjustment. Should have stuck with what was working - Alfred Morris - 5+ yards per carry, sprinkle in Helu and occasional play action pass. What more do you need?

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

I still support Kyle wholeheartedly. Think lack of execution was as much to blame, but as I've been saying he's got to go. Not a good fit here

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1036550]I do think people are overblowing the fact that the Redskins "went away from the run." I know Aikman made a critical comment about it on the broadcast in (I think) the third quarter, and then a graphic showed on the screen that Morris had 17 carries, which is a LOT. And that doesn't count how many carries Helu had.

Because the Redskins weren't going to be able to win yesterday without finding something to lean on in the passing game, it seems shortsighted to criticize them attempting to find the passing game. I'm not sure here if anyone thinks that the Redskins were going to be able to grind out that win up seven, but I think that's pretty far from the truth. Up 11 or 14? There's a chance.

It's a lot more frustrating because two quarterbacks and multiple critical throws to Aldrick Robinson and Santana Moss later, the passing game was still ineffective. And I think Kyle Shanahan deserves a lot of blame for how ineffective it was against a team that can not cover anyone.

More to the actual point, my worry level on Griffin now is somewhere between 5-10%. Still very low, but not that far from serious. They have not done a good job in his development. To be fair, that knee injury hurts his development, a lot. But even considering this a lost offseason, he's nowhere near where he should be. We're close to the point where I would consider a coaching change exclusively because of RG3's lack of development, independent of the 23-32 record.[/quote]

You say trying to find a passing game that wasnt there? Protection horrible, RG3 accuracy was a disgrace yesterday. So go away from a running game that was dominating? No that doesnt make much sense.

If you wanted to "find the passing", you find it but moving the pocket, or 3 step drop or do something different in the scheme. RG3 wasnt see the field, or getting crush by the pass rush. You dont abandon any part of game, you adjust whats not working. Look at RG3 numbers entering the 3rd quarter, why would you not run the ball.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1036550]Because the Redskins weren't going to be able to win yesterday without finding something to lean on in the passing game, it seems shortsighted to criticize them attempting to find the passing game I'm not sure here if anyone thinks that the Redskins were going to be able to grind out that win up seven, but I think that's pretty far from the truth. Up 11 or 14? There's a chance.[/quote]

You miss the point. When playing the Broncos, you want Peyton Manning
and their offense on the bench. You want to limit their possessions and shorten the game.

I don't mind that Kyle tried to hit a bomb. But I am dumbfounded that he would abandon the running game. We were killing them with the running game. It's simple, if they can't stop it, keep doing it. **** trying to find the passing game. If you run the ball well enough, wide open passing opportunities will present themselves.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1036556]I still support Kyle wholeheartedly. Think lack of execution was as much to blame, but as I've been saying he's got to go. Not a good fit here[/quote]

Tension rumors right SS? is it more Father and Son or RG3 and Kyle? Thanks

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1036560]Tension rumors right SS? is it more Father and Son or RG3 and Kyle? Thanks[/quote]

I think it's more father and son, but others may say otherwise

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

I think Kyle is a competent OC with a bright future, but I don't think this is the right fit for him anymore. At this stage, the offense should be clicking more than it is. I'd like to see Mike stay for another year and Kyle go. Couldn't care less about internal this and that, our record sucks. Our offensive production sucks.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=12thMan;1036535]It's not so much that RGIII isn't as sharp as he was last season, he seems to lack confidence in what he's doing out there. Holding the ball way too long, looking tentative at times, not feeling the pass rush very well.[/quote]

Very true. He just doesnt look like the same player as last year.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

I have never like a father and son coaching team because you don't fire you son. It makes an instant conflict of interest.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1036544]I hope we keep him[/quote]Would you put the franchise tag on him if it meant we couldn't sign a RT to replace Polumbus (just an example)?

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

No.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1036534]Are you serious? Are you really going to judge the guy in mop up duty in a blow out? I'd judge him more by when he actually started a game and had a full week of practice.[/quote]

So throw out all of the data, except the one week he had first team reps and played a garbage football team. You're saying that one game makes him a better option than the reigning ROY?

And mop up duty or not, you shouldn't need first team reps to know that staring down an out route is a bad decision.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=firstdown;1036564]I have never like a father and son coaching team because you don't fire you son. It makes an instant conflict of interest.[/quote]If only someone would have suggested this in December 2009...

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=firstdown;1036564]I have never like a father and son coaching team because you don't fire you son. It makes an instant conflict of interest.[/quote]

Tell that to Lou Holtz. Lou demoted his son while at South Carolina. From what I gather from people close to Skip while he was here, Skip still harbored some ill will towards his dad in regards to that.

[url=http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=HwtPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=3R8EAAAAIBAJ&pg=6670%2C1622260]Star-News - Google News Archive Search[/url]


That said, Lou made the right call and did exactly what a good coach should do.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

Speaking of that third round washout.


[B][SIZE="3"]
‏@HTTR24_7

Lazy offseason & got fat..Plus nobody knows if he can actually play yet. RT @c4man5282 @HTTR24_7 Why isn't Leb playing?[/SIZE][/B]


Leribust needs to go. Should have known this kid didn't have the desire to be the best.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1036558]You miss the point. When playing the Broncos, you want Peyton Manning
and their offense on the bench. You want to limit their possessions and shorten the game.

I don't mind that Kyle tried to hit a bomb. But I am dumbfounded that he would abandon the running game. We were killing them with the running game. It's simple, if they can't stop it, keep doing it. **** trying to find the passing game. [B]If you run the ball well enough, wide open passing opportunities will present themselves.[/B][/quote]I...I think that's what he was thinking too. Which makes be a bit miffed that you point that out while arguing the opposite.

If you shorten the game, it just makes every possession more valuable. It doesn't really change the equation as far as winning the game goes. It probably increases Peyton's effect on the outcome of the game.

It makes you a lot less likely to lose by 24, but much more likely to lose by 7.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

When I watch RG3 play I see a player forcing the ball to an assigned player and not surveying the field, passing to the open man. I am not sure if that is on Robert or the coaching staff. He is staring down his targets. Is that the coaching method?

We need to be very active on the trade market IMO We need another quality reciever, I saw on PFT that Fitz may be up for grabs and if this is the case we should jump on that opportunity. Front office needs to make some moves.

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/28/larry-fitzgerald-if-they-decide-to-move-me-that-happens/]Larry Fitzgerald: If they decide to move me, that happens | ProFootballTalk[/url]

A combo of Garcon, Fitz, and Reed would change the dynamic of this offense greatly

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1036552]I think it's just because even the most efficient rushing offenses in the NFL don't put up a lot of points because it's difficult to get yards in chunks.

There was a run Morris had yesterday to the left where he broke a tackle and got to the outside, and a more explosive runner might have been able to get past the safety and take it the distance. But for Morris, it was only a productive run of 15+ yards. And ultimately, that's why they have to throw for their points. Even when the running game is working great, like it was yesterday, its still complementary.[/quote]

I think it's give and take w/ Morris. Yeah he may not break off Chris Johnson type of runs, but he also makes yards when yards are not there. Besides, all the best offenses throw for their points.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1036569]Tell that to Lou Holtz. Lou demoted his son while at South Carolina. From what I gather from people close to Skip while he was here, Skip still harbored some ill will towards his dad in regards to that.

[url=http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=HwtPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=3R8EAAAAIBAJ&pg=6670%2C1622260]Star-News - Google News Archive Search[/url]


That said, Lou made the right call and did exactly what a good coach should do.[/quote]

How hard is it to demote your son for the good of the team knowing that both you and your son will suffer the heartache of your son feeling that you have betrayed him? For most men, that is nearly an impossible thing to do.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1036557]You say trying to find a passing game that wasnt there? Protection horrible, RG3 accuracy was a disgrace yesterday. So go away from a running game that was dominating? No that doesnt make much sense.

If you wanted to "find the passing", you find it but moving the pocket, or 3 step drop or do something different in the scheme. RG3 wasnt see the field, or getting crush by the pass rush. You dont abandon any part of game, you adjust whats not working. Look at RG3 numbers entering the 3rd quarter, why would you not run the ball.[/quote]In hindsight, the passing game never produced. And that's the real story from the game. The run enough/didn't run enough is a distraction from the fact that the passing game could not handle the Denver Broncos, who hadn't stopped anyone else prior to yesterday.

The point is, if you go run heavy in the second half because you don't trust RG3 to throw against the Broncos, you're going to lose anyway, and you're going to lose in the worst way possible: conservatively.

I am not going to let Kyle off the hook for the failure of the passing game he built, but the "run the football more" argument seems, on it's face, to be a bit of a distraction.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1036572]We need to be very active on the trade market IMO We need another quality reciever, I saw on PFT that Fitz may be up for grabs and if this is the case we should jump on that opportunity. Front office needs to make some moves.

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/28/larry-fitzgerald-if-they-decide-to-move-me-that-happens/]Larry Fitzgerald: If they decide to move me, that happens | ProFootballTalk[/url]

A combo of Garcon, Fitz, and Reed would change the dynamic of this offense greatly[/quote]


DO you remotely understand the contract ramifications of bringing Fitz aboard? Also, we have no first round to give away, and you want to give up future picks ala Cerrato style? Fitz is going to count for 18 mil next season and 21 mill the season after.

[url=http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/arizona-cardinals/larry-fitzgerald/]Larry Fitzgerald Contracts, Salaries, Cap Hits, & Transactions[/url]

Not only that, why the hell would Fitz want to come to a 2-5 team?? His current team is better than we are.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1036573]I think it's give and take w/ Morris. Yeah he may not break off Chris Johnson type of runs, but he also makes yards when yards are not there. Besides, all the best offenses throw for their points.[/quote]Morris is very, very, very good. He's just as good as he was last year. In some ways, better. But he's just a complementary player. Morris can be this awesome, and it won't prevent the Redskins from going 4-12 if they can't get production out of anyone else.

[QUOTE=Bucket;1036520]Same game but sometimes that protection goes on the RB and QB.. Not saying the line is perfect but RG3 didn't do anything to help them[/QUOTE]

I think adequate would be a better choice of words than perfect....

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1036571]I...I think that's what he was thinking too. Which makes be a bit miffed that you point that out while arguing the opposite.

If you shorten the game, it just makes every possession more valuable. It doesn't really change the equation as far as winning the game goes. It probably increases Peyton's effect on the outcome of the game.

It makes you a lot less likely to lose by 24, but much more likely to lose by 7.[/quote]

Of course it changes the equation. If you are within 7, anything can happen. If you're behind by 24, your goose is cooked.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1036568]If only someone would have suggested this in December 2009...[/quote]

Well to be fair to Kyle didn't we have one of the top ranked O last year?

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=Southpaw;1036567]So throw out all of the data, except the one week he had first team reps and played a garbage football team. You're saying that one game makes him a better option than the[B] reigning ROY?[/B]

And mop up duty or not, you shouldn't need first team reps to know that staring down an out route is a bad decision.[/quote]

I'm so tired of people talking about last year.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1036575]In hindsight, the passing game never produced. And that's the real story from the game. The run enough/didn't run enough is a distraction from the fact that the passing game could not handle the Denver Broncos, who hadn't stopped anyone else prior to yesterday.

The point is, if you go run heavy in the second half because you don't trust RG3 to throw against the Broncos, [B]you're going to lose anyway, and you're going to lose in the worst way possible: conservatively.[/B]I am not going to let Kyle off the hook for the failure of the passing game he built, but the "run the football more" argument seems, on it's face, to be a bit of a distraction.[/quote]

Yeah Im just gonna disagree here, because of the way we won the first half. To allow the defense to breath and to bleed the clock was clicking just fine. Lets be honest, Haslett had Peyton yesterday until RG3 threw INTs and fumbled the ball away along with the win. So giving the game away to them due to the passing game was ok?

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1036573]I think it's give and take w/ Morris. Yeah he may not break off Chris Johnson type of runs, but he also makes yards when yards are not there. Besides, all the best offenses throw for their points.[/quote]

More give than take, IMO. John Riggins didn't have many long runs but I'd say he was effective. Moving the chains is what it's all about. Most of the breakaway type runners in the NFL couldn't break the tackles that get Morris his 10 and 20 yard runs. So, where would that put them?

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1036579]Of course it changes the equation. If you are within 7, anything can happen. If you're behind by 24, your goose is cooked.[/quote]But if it ends with you defending your goal the whole second half, you're out of the realm of anything can happen, and into the realm of defeatism.

The point is, it's the same probability of winning either way, unless you really like your chance of stopping Peyton Manning on any given drive. Like, if you kept a secret defense he's never seen in your pocket the whole game. But I don't think that exists, and by shorting the game, you're just giving the best player on the field more control over the outcome.

I thought clearly, the best opportunity to win was more posessions = more turnovers. The second Hall pick...total gamechanger if the offense wasn't busy crapping the bed.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1036576]DO you remotely understand the contract ramifications of bringing Fitz aboard? Also, we have no first round to give away, and you want to give up future picks ala Cerrato style? Fitz is going to count for 18 mil next season and 21 mill the season after.

[url=http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/arizona-cardinals/larry-fitzgerald/]Larry Fitzgerald Contracts, Salaries, Cap Hits, & Transactions[/url]

Not only that, why the hell would Fitz want to come to a 2-5 team?? His current team is better than we are.[/quote]

I understand the cap ramifications of a deal like that. I also understand that players and teams can make adjustments to contracts to make things work. The record doesn't matter. If you add a player of that caliber to the roster it will completely change the dynamic of the offense and make RG a better passer. Also, he will give more opportunites to Garcon, Morris, Reed, and Robinson.

I have a go big or go home mentality and if they don't get the quality talent around Robert, he will fail.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

I just don't understand the plays that were called. It seemed like our coaches felt sorry for Denver and wanted to let them score more points. I'm still shaking my head at the calls little Kyle made. Why did we ever want Kyle here in the first place? He was touted as the next Joe Gibbs (by his dad, that is!).

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1036583]More give than take, IMO. John Riggins didn't have many long runs but I'd say he was effective. Moving the chains is what it's all about. Most of the breakaway type runners in the NFL couldn't break the tackles that get Morris his 10 and 20 yard runs. So, where would that put them?[/quote]

Oh I agree. Yesterday they should've given him the ball 35 times. Kyle still thinks he's calling plays in Houston.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

Larry F. is in his 30's. Trading for him is something Vinny would've done.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1036582]Yeah Im just gonna disagree here, because of the way we won the first half. To allow the defense to breath and to bleed the clock was clicking just fine. Lets be honest, Haslett had Peyton yesterday until RG3 threw INTs and fumbled the ball away along with the win. So giving the game away to them due to the passing game was ok?[/quote]'Worst way to lose' is completely subjective. But I doubt that if it had played out as run 60% of the time = loss, anyone would disagree with me. It would feel way worse than it does today. It would have felt non-competitive. I think people wanted to run AND win, not run TO win.

Haslett had Peyton a lot yesterday. I've never seen Peyton misread zone for man so many times in a single game. Complete 180 from 2010. Would have been an excellent storyline if the offense didn't suck.

I do think you probably misread me saying I was going to hold Kyle accountable for the passing game he built as 'being okay with it.' Denver saw the Dallas tape. They prepared for us and squatted on all of our route combinations in the passing game. Teams know what we're going to run based on formation and alignment. Kyle gets outcoached every week.

Personally, I can't wait for the Kyle Shanahan-Matt Schaub experience in Tampa next season.

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

no chance we get fitz

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1036589]'Worst way to lose' is completely subjective. But I doubt that if it had played out as run 60% of the time = loss, anyone would disagree with me. It would feel way worse than it does today. It would have felt non-competitive. I think people wanted to run AND win, not run TO win.

Haslett had Peyton a lot yesterday. I've never seen Peyton misread zone for man so many times in a single game. Complete 180 from 2010. Would have been an excellent storyline if the offense didn't suck.

I do think you probably misread me saying I was going to hold Kyle accountable for the passing game he built as 'being okay with it.' Denver saw the Dallas tape. They prepared for us and squatted on all of our route combinations in the passing game. Teams know what we're going to run based on formation and alignment. Kyle gets outcoached every week.

Personally, I can't wait for the Kyle Shanahan-Matt Schaub experience in Tampa next season.[/quote]

Would you take Kubiack here?

Re: Broncos vs Skins Post Game Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1036581]I'm so tired of people talking about last year.[/quote]

Your Cousins argument is based on last year...

Starting Cousins for any reason other than an injury to Griffin is the absolute worst thing that could happen to this team. It's a no win situation.