Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=itvnetop;1074449]Believing something is fundamentally wrong doesn't mean you have to go and join the Peace Corps to help save the poor tribes in New Guinea.[/quote]
I absolutely agree and I'm not trying to disparage name-changers all together; which is a trap that is easy to fall into whenever discussing politics and the onus is on the person talking to make clear who they are referencing and when they are and are not painting with a broad brush, so for that I apologize :)

My issue is not with people that sympathize with native americans that find offense. My issue is solely with the people that screaming about how morally outraged they are today, when (insert random number) years ago they bought things with Redskins on it and wore it proudly. They sung the song. They watched the games. They attended the stadium.

If you have a moral outrage about something you don't support it. In your analogy.... you don't have to join the peace corp, but you probably shouldn't donate money to the oppressors in New Guinae, and if you do then... well you're a hypocrite and/or a liar. The hypocrisy comes in you (general you) demanding others meet a standard you yourself don't seem to actually meet, the liar comes in by saying you're outraged yet actively supporting the thing you're claiming to be outraged about.

There are plenty of redskins fans that sympathize with native americans that find offense. There's nothing wrong with supporting both sides in my opinion. It's all about how you support either side, or more importantly how you treat others that seem to lack the same support you do.

[quote=itvnetop;1074449]
Merch and ticket sales are shared throughout the league, so trying to hurt the individual team monetarily doesn't necessarily work. I personally don't wear anything with the name or mascot.[/quote]

It's not about hurting the team, it's about living up to a standard you're demanding others meet.

It's kind of like my whole opinion on the thing... When the Native Americans stop using the word themselves for their sports team and citing it as a source of honor and pride, I'll start considering whether our team should change its name; even then it would be hard to agree with them given the long history of that meaning existing.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=over the mountain;1074450]reasonable minds can certainly disagree on this issue.

i think there are 3 camps:

1- people who want the name to stay
2 - people who want the name to change
3 - people who are not personally offended by the name and support and sport the name but wouldnt put up to much of a fight to change the name if native americans are truly offended

im in camp 3.

this discussion has certainly expanded my mind with some great posts and thoughts from both sides.

i highly recommend listening to Amanda Blackhorse's interview on the junkies to put a voice to the native american dissent.[/quote]
I am in camp 3 as well.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[QUOTE]After hearing Amanda Blackhorse speak I now understand more of where she is coming from. I feel that she, and as a whole the group she represents, don't whole heartily deep down think Redskins is anywhere close to the n word. I get the impression that what molded her mind was actually seeing belligerent fans [B]dressed in tacky Indian head dresses and gear. Which is something I can actually understand. Seeing someone stumbling through a parking lot wasted dressed up as an Indian Chief would be very disturbing to a Native American. [/B][/QUOTE]

why would anyone take that personal unless they have an obsessive compulsive disorder ?

a team needs to change their name because of dumb drunk people dressed like Indians ?

most of these people who say they want it changed aren't even sports fans or football fans to begin with and they are women. IE they have no connection or investment in any of this

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1074457]I am in camp 3 as well.[/quote]

well, then get out of the way with your less than passive aggressive crap because you wont help the cause !!! :rant:

I'm just making a joke here, I don't actually mean anything negative towards you :silly:

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

Word definitions are determined one of two ways: prescriptively (authoritarian) or descriptively (democratically, determined by how they are in face [I]used[/I]). Contemporary American dictionaries lean towards the latter.

Anyone who has looked up words in a dictionary knows there are often more than one senses or meanings listed for a given word.

The word [I]Redskins[/I]--the team name--is obviously not used disparagingly nor as a slur (the team named [I]themselves[/I] that, fans are proud of the name, etc.).

Therefore the patent office (as are name-changers) is making the error of conflating two different usages or meanings of the word [I]Redskins[/I], and should reverse their decision.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=rainsleetorHail;1074463]Word definitions are determined one of two ways: prescriptively (authoritarian) or descriptively (democratically, determined by how they are in face [I]used[/I]). Contemporary American dictionaries lean towards the latter.

Anyone who has looked up words in a dictionary knows there are often more than one senses or meanings listed for a given word.

The word [I]Redskins[/I]--the team name--is obviously not used disparagingly nor as a slur (the team named [I]themselves[/I] that, fans are proud of the name, etc.).

Therefore the patent office (as are name-changers) is making the error of conflating two different usages or meanings of the word [I]Redskins[/I], and should reverse their decision.[/quote]

for example websters defines homophobia as though it were an actual thing when in fact there is absolutely no case study that proves anyone actually has that phobia.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=itvnetop;1074395]Please re-read my stance on boycotting. Another example- not a fan of Orson Scott Card's personal beliefs and public statements. Huge fan of Ender's Game. Wagner was one hell of a composer despite being an unapologetic anti-Semite. Mel Gibson's drunken rants? Don't tell me some of you aren't disgusted by his words, yet still watch his films. Separate the art from the artist. A song's message from its offensive content. A team from its nickname. It's the same way I can dance to "Ain't No Fun" in a club without stomping off the floor because of its misogynist (yes, offensive) lyrics.

[B]Although I see the word Redskin as an offensive label, I [U]tolerate[/U] it because I don't define the team I root for by its mascot or nickname.[/B] Being from the DMV area ties me to this team. I understand not everyone weighs the word equally right now. Just like how the n-bomb was part of everyday vernacular not so long ago, it took a few decades for the word to become universally rejected (despite some who say there are more important things to worry about than such words). But with sentiment quickly growing, right now will be tomorrow's misstep. Our future generations will wonder how exactly this name stuck around for so long.

I'll still be supporting this team after the name switches. For everyone holding on to the name for dear life- will you?[/quote]

See I think this is where we differ. I don't equate tolerance to offense. Those are two different things. Tolerance means I accept whatever it is I tolerate. Doesn't have to be something I even like, but I accept it. Heck I might even be entertained by it.

Being offended, again my opinion, means that I do not tolerate whatever it is that has caused me offense. It's caused me personal grief, directly, and its caused me disruption in my soul.

Completely my opinion, but I would wager to say that a good amount of those who have hopped on the "change name" bandwagon, are there, not because they are personally offended by the name, but support the [I]possibility[/I] that someone might be offended. In other words, they're looking to be offended at something.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=skinsguy;1074468]See I think this is where we differ. I don't equate tolerance to offense. Those are two different things. Tolerance means I accept whatever it is I tolerate. Doesn't have to be something I even like, but I accept it. Heck I might even be entertained by it.

Being offended, again my opinion, means that I do not tolerate whatever it is that has caused me offense. It's caused me personal grief, directly, and its caused me disruption in my soul.
[/quote]

Friend A: Your religion/god/diety is about as legitimate as the flying spaghetti monster.

Friend B: That statement totally offends me and what I stand for.

Friend A: So where do you feel like eating?

Friend B: Let's go grab some sushi.

See what I did here? Friend B does not define Friend A by his conflicting perspective towards his religious beliefs. Friend B is even offended by the statement. But it's just part of what makes Friend A, Friend A. There's much more to Friend A than just his offensive spiritual statement- honesty, loyalty, etc. Values that Friend B exhibit trump his offended feelings when religion is discussed.

I sincerely don't like the team name... But the name doesn't negate all the reasons (listed several pages back) why I follow the organization. Behaving in absolutes will eventually trip you up somewhere down the line.

How many people here saw the new X-Men? Bryan Singer (the director) is being accused of some pretty [URL="http://www.scribd.com/doc/218742717/Bryan-Singer-Accused-of-Sexually-Abusing-Underage-Boy-Pt-1-TheWrap"]serious stuff[/URL]. The average person had no idea this is going on, those who knew are naturally withholding judgment before boycotting... but I know quite a few industry heads who think he's guilty (based on years of well-known industry lore regarding Singer's circle) and went to see it anyway. I'm fairly certain they are offended/disgusted/soul crushed by child rape, but they did not define the entire film by the alleged actions of its director. When you boycott a film you originally intended to see, you also hurt the writers, editors, VFX, camera, talent, etc. (OT- Amy Berg is working on a documentary that is going to blow the lid off Hollywood's evil secret; just like she did with her previous documentary dealing with the Catholic Church).

Similar to how a director has the biggest creative role in a film, the Redskins name is obviously a big part of the team's brand. But there are other elements that connect a fan with the team; elements that trump the name.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=skinsguy;1074468]See I think this is where we differ. I don't equate tolerance to offense. Those are two different things. [B]Tolerance means I accept whatever it is I tolerate. Doesn't have to be something I even like, but I accept it. Heck I might even be entertained by it. [/B]
Being offended, again my opinion, means that I do not tolerate whatever it is that has caused me offense. It's caused me personal grief, directly, and its caused me disruption in my soul.

Completely my opinion, but I would wager to say that a good amount of those who have hopped on the "change name" bandwagon, are there, not because they are personally offended by the name, but support the [I]possibility[/I] that someone might be offended. In other words, they're looking to be offended at something.[/quote]

tolerance does not mean acceptance. I tolerate what gay people think is ok to do in their lives but I will never accept it. I can be nice to a gay person without accepting the gay lifestyle as right or normal. That is tolerance.

people try to define tolerance as acceptance and by definition it simply isnt

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[IMG]http://assets.hospitalityonline.com/brands/employers/logos/000/223/799/logo.gif?1329184420[/IMG]

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

put mouse over logo to see who owns it etc

[url=http://time.com/2894357/redskins-trademark-indian-interactive/]Washington Redskins Trademark: 600 Other Companies with Indian Mascots - TIME[/url]

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

I heard Doc Walker say something today on the issue that made sense....not always the case with Doc!
He said to many non-white people think Jesse or Al speak for the black community because they are frequently the loudest....heard. Per Doc. "They DO NOT speak for me....or most of the black community".
Need to hear from the Indian community at large to get any value from the nonsense being....stirred about. To many non Indian....bogus Do-Gooders involved for any truth to come out.
BUT, would make a great "reality" tv show........
...........Osiyo!

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

Problem solved ya big dummies!
[IMG]http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g15/Turd_Cutter/Reddskins_zps15fbc945.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=budw38;1074208]Synder should change the name to the Fed's . Put the US Capitol on one side of the helmet , the White house on the other . Put a second " Big screen " in the Stadium , show the ticker with our national debt running . Every Sunday ( or MNF ) , I would have on the screen a picture of " ass- of the week ", and have a politician's name and picture showing what they have done to hurt working Americans . Our home opener , have harry reid dressed like a dallass cowboy , nyg and an iggles cheerleader .[/quote]

Our nickname could be the CAP's CROOKED ASS POLITICIANS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

What irks me about this is the hyprocisy of a vast majority of the people that want it changed.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=itvnetop;1074470]Friend A: Your religion/god/diety is about as legitimate as the flying spaghetti monster.

Friend B: That statement totally offends me and what I stand for.

Friend A: So where do you feel like eating?

Friend B: Let's go grab some sushi.

See what I did here? Friend B does not define Friend A by his conflicting perspective towards his religious beliefs. Friend B is even offended by the statement. But it's just part of what makes Friend A, Friend A. There's much more to Friend A than just his offensive spiritual statement- honesty, loyalty, etc. Values that Friend B exhibit trump his offended feelings when religion is discussed.

I sincerely don't like the team name... But the name doesn't negate all the reasons (listed several pages back) why I follow the organization. Behaving in absolutes will eventually trip you up somewhere down the line.

How many people here saw the new X-Men? Bryan Singer (the director) is being accused of some pretty [URL="http://www.scribd.com/doc/218742717/Bryan-Singer-Accused-of-Sexually-Abusing-Underage-Boy-Pt-1-TheWrap"]serious stuff[/URL]. The average person had no idea this is going on, those who knew are naturally withholding judgment before boycotting... but I know quite a few industry heads who think he's guilty (based on years of well-known industry lore regarding Singer's circle) and went to see it anyway. I'm fairly certain they are offended/disgusted/soul crushed by child rape, but they did not define the entire film by the alleged actions of its director. When you boycott a film you originally intended to see, you also hurt the writers, editors, VFX, camera, talent, etc. (OT- Amy Berg is working on a documentary that is going to blow the lid off Hollywood's evil secret; just like she did with her previous documentary dealing with the Catholic Church).

Similar to how a director has the biggest creative role in a film, the Redskins name is obviously a big part of the team's brand. But there are other elements that connect a fan with the team; elements that trump the name.[/quote]

What could possibly make you think that it would be appropriate to compare the Redskins name issue to the rape of a child? That is disgusting!

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1074516]What irks me about this is the hyprocisy of a vast majority of the people that want it changed.[/quote]

By "hypocrisy" you mean that they don't really care about Indians but still support the name change?

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=Lotus;1074519]By "hypocrisy" you mean that they don't really care about Indians but still support the name change?[/quote]

That is a piece of it.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

If the team has to change its name, the only result I would respect is dropping the Native American theme completely. Why keep that theme and continue to expose ourselves to the inevitable NEXT round of political correctness?

Until then, HTTR.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=mitch e;1074513]Our nickname could be the CAP's CROOKED ASS POLITICIANS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]

Absolutely !!!!

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=Counter-Tre;1074488]Problem solved ya big dummies!
[IMG]http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g15/Turd_Cutter/Reddskins_zps15fbc945.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

Brilliant!

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

Aunt Ester wouldn't like it.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

lets just say for a worst case scenario...

I think a great team name would be The Washington Rebels...
fitting. wed be able to keep HTTR. I just think it would be good.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

So over all this bullshit

I hope Snyder sues the ever living s outta this guy, if possible. And to top it off the jackass is a cowboys fan too.

[url]http://www.landoverracists.com/shop[/url]

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=Skins4L;1074535]lets just say for a worst case scenario...

I think a great team name would be The Washington Rebels...
fitting. wed be able to keep HTTR. I just think it would be good.[/quote]

that's pretty good.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1074520]That is a piece of it.[/quote]

I agree about the hypocrisy coming from the change-the-name camp. It is easy to find outraged netizens who otherwise couldn't give a fig about Indians.

But there is hypocrisy in the keep-the-name camp, too. Some Skins fans claim that the name honors Indians, yet these same people show no more concern for the real plight of real Indians than the change-the-name hypocrites. If Skins fans don't truly honor Indians, what right do they have to support keeping the name for the sake of honoring Indians?

Sadly there is a lot of hypocrisy on both sides.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=Lotus;1074547]I agree about the hypocrisy coming from the change-the-name camp. It is easy to find outraged netizens who otherwise couldn't give a fig about Indians.

But there is hypocrisy in the keep-the-name camp, too. Some Skins fans claim that the name honors Indians, yet these same people show no more concern for the real plight of real Indians than the change-the-name hypocrites. If Skins fans don't truly honor Indians, what right do they have to support keeping the name for the sake of honoring Indians?

Sadly there is a lot of hypocrisy on both sides.[/quote]

There is but aren't there indian reservations out there that use the name Redskins for their HS teams? No one has given me a legitimate reason for the name to change. Also, comparing it to the N word is kinda stupid imo.

[QUOTE=mlmdub130;1074539]I hope Snyder sues the ever living s outta this guy, if possible. And to top it off the jackass is a cowboys fan too.

[url]http://www.landoverracists.com/shop[/url][/QUOTE]
Wow!

I agree that Danny should sue!

Just for the record, after all of the debate I have heard and read, I feel that I too am in the third camp. I too do not want to see the team name changed, and I don't really see the name as racist or derogatory, but I do agree that there is way too much bad press, and that the name will have to change at some point in the near future.

My only hope is that the team can retain the colors and theme.

As for a replacement name, I would vote for...

Washington Warriors

Also, whether or not the name is changed, I would suggest that the team go back to the logo that was used in the '60's, and during the 70th Anniversary season....

[IMG]http://www.redskins.com/assets/images/imported/WAS/centerpieces/landing-page-centerpieces/AP02082906582.jpg [/IMG]

Sent from my RCT6378W2

[QUOTE=Lotus;1074547]I agree about the hypocrisy coming from the change-the-name camp. It is easy to find outraged netizens who otherwise couldn't give a fig about Indians.

But there is hypocrisy in the keep-the-name camp, too. Some Skins fans claim that the name honors Indians, yet these same people show no more concern for the real plight of real Indians than the change-the-name hypocrites. If Skins fans don't truly honor Indians, what right do they have to support keeping the name for the sake of honoring Indians?

Sadly there is a lot of hypocrisy on both sides.[/QUOTE]

To a point.

The problem with that argument is that the keep-the-name camp isn't trying to force something on others against their will.

As for the honoring argument, that goes for both sides. The only meaningful thing that comes from it is that majority of people in the USA do not care enough about the issues of the Native American people to actually do something meaningful about that. It'd be nice if that's what this all would pivot to, the two camps might actually start finding some things to agree on :)

At least the redskins have started a charity. What has Costas, Munson, et al done?

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

As Scott VP has gone on the record. Costas and his......kind have been doing this gig for 88+ years...more or less. Is it not interesting they started caring about the racist nature of the B & G name in the last 2 years. Were they not ......aghast at the name for lo' these many years? If so, why voice their opinion when it became....fashionable
.....Weak

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=mlmdub130;1074539]I hope Snyder sues the ever living s outta this guy, if possible. And to top it off the jackass is a cowboys fan too.

[url=http://www.landoverracists.com/shop]Products | Landover Racists[/url][/quote]

My mind says that's way over the line and wrong, as calling someone a racist is only a step or two below declaring someone a wife beater, but not unlike watching a [URL="http://youtu.be/wOh1ek_yncA"]video of a bully getting his butt kicked[/URL] I find it hard to muster up any sympathy for a guy that has abused the legal system with [URL="http://deadspin.com/5838709/dan-snyder-is-suing-washington-city-paper-over-a-story-he-has-never-read"]numerous frivolous lawsuits[/URL].

Extra Credit Video:
[YT]LpbwHt6JcBU[/YT]

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=ram29jackson;1074472]tolerance does not mean acceptance. I tolerate what gay people think is ok to do in their lives but I will never accept it. I can be nice to a gay person without accepting the gay lifestyle as right or normal. That is tolerance.

people try to define tolerance as acceptance and by definition it simply isnt[/quote]

My point is that if one is a fan of the Redskins, wears Redskins jerseys, cheers for the Washington Redskins, or sings the fight song when they score a touchdown, I don't see how one can be, staunchly, against the name of the team. That's just my opinion.

I honestly believe the difference of opinions among those people who are not Native American, is a politically driven one - not one where they are personally effected by the name. Just my opinion. Especially when political figures are trying to get involved, those on one side or the other is going to be supporting their political "team" in anything. Certainly there are exceptions to the rule, but there are those who are so staunchly for their political party that they'll go along with anything that party says or does, and will argue for those actions - even if they don't understand what it is they are fighting for. And I believe when President Obama and a few other political figures came out against the name, that was enough to sway a few sitting on the fence, over to the "change name" camp.

The bottom line is, if there is overwhelming evidence, damnable evidence that the name of the team is derogatory, and an overwhelming majority of Native Americans agree that the team name is racist, then the name should change. But if there is NOT overwhelming evidence (and so far, there hasn't been), nor an overwhelming majority of NA's coming out against the name, then fighting for a name change simply doesn't make any sense.

What basis of argument do Non-NA's have against the name, if the majority of NA's come out and say that they do not find offense in the name? Going along with the argument that there might be 10% who are offended and that's enough for those opposed to fight the "good fight" seems pretty ignorant to me. That is when I say if there is division within the NA community, then let them figure it out among themselves.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=Skins4L;1074535]lets just say for a worst case scenario...

I think a great team name would be The Washington Rebels...
fitting. wed be able to keep HTTR. I just think it would be good.[/quote]

There are few things that would cause me to turn in my fan card. Renaming them the Rebels would be one of those things.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=Lotus;1074547]I agree about the hypocrisy coming from the change-the-name camp. It is easy to find outraged netizens who otherwise couldn't give a fig about Indians.

But there is hypocrisy in the keep-the-name camp, too. Some Skins fans claim that the name honors Indians, yet these same people show no more concern for the real plight of real Indians than the change-the-name hypocrites. If Skins fans don't truly honor Indians, what right do they have to support keeping the name for the sake of honoring Indians?

Sadly there is a lot of hypocrisy on both sides.[/quote]

I don't care about them.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

Pffffttttt....
Snyder is not going to name them The Rebels or the Warriors or anything close to being Indian related.
The Redskins are a prominent business/company/team/employer.
Snyder has been enduring a ton of crap about the name this year.
I'm sure hes fed up.
The new name is going to be something very neutral and very approachable and totally noncontroversial.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=kct1975;1074552]Wow!

I agree that Danny should sue!

Just for the record, after all of the debate I have heard and read, I feel that I too am in the third camp. I too do not want to see the team name changed, and I don't really see the name as racist or derogatory, but I do agree that there is way too much bad press, and that the name will have to change at some point in the near future.

My only hope is that the team can retain the colors and theme.

As for a replacement name, I would vote for...

Washington Warriors

Also, whether or not the name is changed, I would suggest that the team go back to the logo that was used in the '60's, and during the 70th Anniversary season....

[IMG]http://www.redskins.com/assets/images/imported/WAS/centerpieces/landing-page-centerpieces/AP02082906582.jpg [/IMG]

Sent from my RCT6378W2[/quote]

That helmet is pretty sweet, even equal to our curent one. But if the name does change, we need to move completely away from any Native American theme. It might take 10 years, or 20, or 50, but eventually the same type of people as those for the name-change now would start arguing that Native American mascots dehumanize them, and we'd have to put up with this crap all over again.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=SirLK26;1074590]That helmet is pretty sweet, even equal to our curent one. But if the name does change, we need to move completely away from any Native American theme. It might take 10 years, or 20, or 50, but eventually the same type of people as those for the name-change now would start arguing that Native American mascots dehumanize them, and we'd have to put up with this crap all over again.[/quote]That's already happening with other teams, just to a quieter degree than what we're seeing. As I think has been stated in this thread, the Redskins are basically just the prime target/first domino.
My guess is that if and when we do change it will be pretty much whole sale with only the team colors staying the same. Like Alvin Walton said, the organization will do everything they can to make the new name/logo non-controversial, which ironically will make it controversial to many current fans.

I just wish the name Washington Generals wasn't so tainted because of the Harlem Globetrotters, because I feel like that would be a decent name.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=skinsguy;1074583]I honestly believe the difference of opinions among those people who are not Native American, is a politically driven one - not one where they are personally effected by the name. Just my opinion. Especially when political figures are trying to get involved, those on one side or the other is going to be supporting their political "team" in anything. Certainly there are exceptions to the rule, but there are those who are so staunchly for their political party that they'll go along with anything that party says or does, and will argue for those actions - even if they don't understand what it is they are fighting for. And I believe when President Obama and a few other political figures came out against the name, that was enough to sway a few sitting on the fence, over to the "change name" camp. [/quote]

Agreed. As someone who's spent the last few years ridiculing my republican friends over a few things, I can't help but see some of their warnings about other things in action on this issue.

I don't know if the vast majority of people see things this way, but I'm certainly on the same page as you at this point.

[quote=skinsguy;1074583]
The bottom line is, if there is overwhelming evidence, damnable evidence that the name of the team is derogatory, and an overwhelming majority of Native Americans agree that the team name is racist, then the name should change. But if there is NOT overwhelming evidence (and so far, there hasn't been), nor an overwhelming majority of NA's coming out against the name, then fighting for a name change simply doesn't make any sense.
[/quote]

But therein lies the issue for me that is going to forever make it difficult for me to change from the keep-the-name camp to the change-the-name camp.

If, up until a point, there was no significant proof of disparagement etc, then why should I put any stock into that changing over time?
If when the team was named... when the cases were previously fought... when the name was trademarked... if there was no problem then, why should I give any credit to the idea that there is a problem now or in the future?

If there never existed a problem then the whole platform upon which the change-the-name camp sits goes away... Simply rallying more people onto their non-existent platform doesn't do anything for me.

They may able to recruit more in the future under the guise of righteousness and 'making a difference' because, from where I sit, the trend of people wanting to be a part of that sort of thing seems to continue to grow - especially as more and more people become reliant on the internet as a means of social interaction and source of happiness.

But it's not going to change anything for me. I'll see it exactly for what it is.. a bunch of phony nonsense that's been talked into 'existence,' but not really...

This isn't an issue that changes over time... or at least, it shouldn't be.

Re: Redskins Trademark cancelled
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;1074593]That's already happening with other teams, just to a quieter degree than what we're seeing. As I think has been stated in this thread, the Redskins are basically just the prime target/first domino.
My guess is that if and when we do change it will be pretty much whole sale with only the team colors staying the same. Like Alvin Walton said, the organization will do everything they can to make the new name/logo non-controversial, which ironically will make it controversial to many current fans.

I just wish the name Washington Generals wasn't so tainted because of the Harlem Globetrotters, because I feel like that would be a decent name.[/quote]

Generals is a solid name. Not sure how well that would go with the burgundy and gold.

I still like the idea of Washington FC. Don't know what we'd do for a logo, though.

If the name does change, please, please, please, no animal for a name. That would be awful.