Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[QUOTE=SouperMeister;1085354]Cousins has to learn how to finish. He threw several amazing passes yesterday, but with starting field position at the Eagles 41 and two full minutes, a winning QB has to be able to get at least one first down to get into tying FG range. That was simply pathetic. Lastly, I don't care how many consecutive FGs Forbath had hit. You CANNOT miss a go-ahead 33 yard FG in the 4th quarter. If his leg is too weak or injured for kick-off duty, he has to be automatic inside 40 yards. Period.[/QUOTE]


What was the sequence of events leading up to the pass he missed when Garcon was open? I dont remember. Anyway, I think you could look back at many qb's fifth start in the league and find they make mistakes. That confidence will come as he gains experience. Im ecstatic about his performance all things considered. Road game - good team - rival.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[QUOTE=SirLK26;1085328]I thought Cousins was great yesterday. Yeah, he should have made those throws at the end, but he never should have been in the position where he had to win the game there in the first place. He carried the team the whole day, with the defense sucking for the most part and the special teams giving up a touchdown and missing a short FG. If the defense had been at least solid and the special teams had been mistake free... for once... he wouldn't have had to have been counted on as the comeback hero and we would have won in a cakewalk. Cousins was the least of the problems yesterday, in my opinion.



Now, if he stays a starter, he'll eventually be counted on to win games no matter how bad his team around him plays, but putting this loss on him is unreasonable, considering he only has a few starts under his belt and was one of the biggest reasons the team was even in position to win.[/QUOTE]


This.


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Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1085313]Anyway it's surprising how JoeRedskin is willing to give Cousins all the patience he never gave RG3. Cousins throws a pick that's understandable. rG3 throws a pick he is a bad QB. I don't hate Cousins I am just keeping Joe honest. Anyway we need to beat the Giants.

cousins won't be able to overthrow RG3 by losing.[/quote]

So much wrong in this statement, I don't even know where to begin ... and just not worth the effort.

"I am Gary84Clark - facts don't apply to me."

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

Wow........

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[QUOTE=Gary84Clark;1085317]Ok well substitute Joe's name for Heath Evans.[/QUOTE]

Da fuq??

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Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1085372]So much wrong in this statement, I don't even know where to begin ... and just not worth the effort.

"I am Gary84Clark - facts don't apply to me."[/quote]

Lol sounds like my boss aka, "I'll an answer your email after you leave today because u won't like my answer" and "1 + 1 = 3"

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1085298]Like I said, not talking about the players. Talking about the situation. My point is some people just don't get better. Will Cousins? I don't know. I sure hope so. But it's naive to just assume he will, which I think is what a lot of people here are doing[/quote]

Gotcha. I don't know either. I am certainly not making any assumptions about either at this point. My hope is that RGIII comes back and shows he has grown. I would imagine that when RGIII is ready to come back, we will have a better understanding of whether KC can improve on his game's weaknesses. In the end, if we have to gamble on one breaking out of old bad habits, I would prefer to gamble on RGIII. His ceiling is just soooo much higher than KC''s.

Actually, take that back, I am ready - right here, right now - to give KC a pass, sign him to huge, crippling Tony Romo like contract, and trade RGIII for a 7th rounder and a new third string groundskeeper. 'Cause you know, RGIII is just a bad QB and Kirk "white bread" Cousins is how I roll - me and Heath Evans.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

Up until this year I thought it was RG -3 or bust as far as our qb situation. Cousins was a solid backup that we might get a high draft pick for at some point if we could somehow showcase him to the league. Now I find myself not caring at all when Griff comes back. I feel like what I have watched KC do this year is just the purest form of good qb'ing i have seen in Washington in a long time. I feel like Gruden is very pleased with his qb also and just dont see Griff fitting in this offense. I am real curious how he looks against the Giants and Seahawks. Much better defenses than Jax and Philly. If he looks real solid against them I just might be fully over Griff. I feel like I need to end this with a disclaimer that says I am neither a Griff nor a KC fan. Im a Skins fan. My gut is telling me KC is going to be the guy in DC.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

5 weeks till the poll question:

RG3 For Me
Let KC lead DC

Getcha popcorn ready

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1085392]5 weeks till the poll question:

RG3 For Me
Let KC lead DC

Getcha popcorn ready[/quote]

Too wordy. I'm going with

Black
White

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1085270]Do you understand that this happens to all QB's in the course of a game? Especially when there is 48 pass attempts? Foles flat out missed a couple wide open TD passes but no one is going to question his performance yesterday.[/quote]

He threw 2 passes right to Redskin defenders, but he's still awesome because they were dropped.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1085342][/B]
Well I can tell you this, all those guys missed open WR's yesterday, as did Foles.[/quote]

And Rodgers had a whopping 7 points yesterday. I hope no one is advocating for production like that.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1085298]Like I said, not talking about the players. Talking about the situation. My point is some people just don't get better. Will Cousins? I don't know. I sure hope so. But it's naive to just assume he will, which I think is what a lot of people here are doing[/quote]

It's just as naive to assume he won't. It's more rare for guys to peak in their first few starts. There are far more examples of guys getting better with experience than vice versa. Being encouraged by his performance is a reasonable reaction to what he's done the last 2 weeks.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=JWsleep;1085299]The iggles put up 37 points on us. Tough for any QB to win in that situation. And few teams can spot opponents 10 points because of ST gaffs and win.

I'm much less worried about the offense if they can put up 34 with an inexperienced backup on the road. And I don't think the iggles ever really stopped the O as much as a few missed passes/WR reads stopped the O. We'll find out about KC/RGIII in the long run.

But we're gonna need more bodies on D, especially in the secondary. We don't seem to have anyone capable of playing free safety, a crucial spot in the Pitt style D we play. We are very inexperienced/weak and corner now. And Ryan Clark, who I really like so far, is near the end of his career. I think this won't get fixed this year--but it's obviously a priority in FA/draft next year. So this means were going to continue to give up big pass plays to good teams, teams who can keep our much-improved front 7 off the QB. Get used to it: we were 3-13 last year; getting to 6-10/7-9 is a VERY big improvement, though I think we might see it. But getting beyond that requires a secondary.

I like Gruden's offense so far, and it was great to see DJax getting his moment there. Too bad we couldn't pull it out. Niles Paul was good again. Loved to see the big plays--nice screen to Helu. We put some hits on Foles but he stood tall and we never got that crucial INT. Great strip fumble, though. Fun game to watch as a football fan. Tough to lose, as a Redskins fan. F*** Philly.

Too bad about the short week, but we NEED this next one. Unfortunately, the half-assed Texans gave the gints new life there. They ran the ball well, pressured the QB, etc. Still, they are eminently beatable. Please skins, don't s*** the bed on Thursday!!![/quote]

The Eagles will hang 30 on just about everyone. Even the best Defenses get tripped up. The Chargers just put up 30 on the Seahawks. Happens.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=FRPLG;1085308]I too am hoping that some of that gets better the more he works with the first unit. My evaluation, for what's it worth, is that he was drafted in the 4th round for a reason. He has historically, in both the pros and college, faced bouts on inaccuracy and bad decision making. He has a little bit of gunslinger in him. That can work for a team if there is something that can augment it into a value..like mobility. What I saw yesterday was a guy who can make throws, understands the offense, and has confidence. What I also saw was a guy who flat out missed pretty easy throws in the 4th quarter that had to be made. Throws that guys like Rodgers/Brees/Manning/Brady make. The type of QB Cousins is has to be at that level for us to win. He has to be a play-maker with his arm and he can't do that by missing 5-yard outs.[/quote]

GMs don't know crap when it comes to QB. And that draft was loaded with QB talent. If draft position matters, why do so many 1st rounders flame out? And why was Brees a 2nd rounder, Brady a 6th rounder, Wilson and Foles 3rd rounders, Romo undrafted (well, OK), Kaepernick a 2nd rounder, etc. etc.

By the way, Rodgers, Brees, Manning and Brady are all future hall of famers and all of them looked pretty human yesterday. Talk about setting the bar high. You expect Cousins to be at their level in his 5th career start. Pretty reasonable expectation as it happens all the time.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=44Deezel;1085399]It's just as naive to assume he won't. It's more rare for guys to peak in their first few starts. There are far more examples of guys getting better with experience than vice versa. Being encouraged by his performance is a reasonable reaction to what he's done the last 2 weeks.[/quote]

I don't know that there are FAR more examples. But I take it you think I'm rooting against him, so it is what it is.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=44Deezel;1085401]GMs don't know crap when it comes to QB. And that draft was loaded with QB talent. If draft position matters, why do so many 1st rounders flame out? And why was Brees a 2nd rounder, Brady a 6th rounder, Wilson and Foles 3rd rounders, Romo undrafted (well, OK), Kaepernick a 2nd rounder, etc. etc.

By the way, Rodgers, Brees, Manning and Brady are all future hall of famers and all of them looked pretty human yesterday. Talk about setting the bar high. You expect Cousins to be at their level in his 5th career start. Pretty reasonable expectation as it happens all the time.[/quote]

No I expect to see some growth from his college days and I'm not sure wd have. Let's be clear...for much of the game he looked fantastic. He put us into position to win. Awesome. But I want a qb who WINS, not just puts us into position to win. When it came time to WIN yesterday he was just ok. All I'm saying is everyone needs to pump the brakes a little here. I am cautiously optimistic about KC but I am also uncomfortably unsure what we've seen in his very limited playing time is anything more than a decent QB.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=44Deezel;1085399]Being encouraged by his performance is a reasonable reaction to what he's done the last 2 weeks.[/quote]

Agreed 100% with this sentence.

What is additionally reasonable is to try and be rational about the mistakes he made and how fundamental a few were and how important they ended up being. Lots of people are not being honest about that.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1085395]Too wordy. I'm going with

Black
White[/quote]

It don't matter...

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

just win baby....

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

I may be in the minority on this, but from what I have seen these last 2 weeks I really don't want to RG3 back. If KC can even continue his current play I see 2 vital areas where he is better than RG3.
First he sees the field better and does not wait for player to become open & he is anticipating their breaks.
Second and probably the most important is his accuracy to deliver the ball to the receiver.
I like most of you have spent a ton of money on RG3 stuff, I will gladly give it all up for a true winner.
This is not about RG3 hate, I want to be competitive again & have something to look forward to.....

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

What's the difference between Schaub and Brees. What's the difference between Brady and Ryan? Consistency and winning. Cousins can have good stats but he has to win and he has to have consistency. Time will tell.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=44Deezel;1085399]It's just as naive to assume he won't. It's more rare for guys to peak in their first few starts. There are far more examples of guys getting better with experience than vice versa. Being encouraged by his performance is a reasonable reaction to what he's done the last 2 weeks.[/quote]

I disagree. The NFL has had far more people that never reach the next level, just look at the length of the average NFL career. Some of that has to do with injuries, much of it has to do with individuals not having the skill set or mental aptitude for the game.

Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[QUOTE=BaltimoreSkins;1085435]I disagree. The NFL has had far more people that never reach the next level, just look at the length of the average NFL career. Some of that has to do with injuries, much of it has to do with individuals not having the skill set or mental aptitude for the game.[/QUOTE]


Of course injuries can happen. I think what Deezel was saying is that based on KC's first few games as a starter, that it is more reasonable to expect him to flourish than to wilt. Not impossible for him not to pan out of course but based on the sample we have seen all signs point to yes. Atleast thats what my magic 8-ball says.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

I have been camping since Friday and just getting into town and getting caught up
Just seeing some of the replays and hearing about what transpired
I thought the hit by Baker on Nick was a cheap shot, maybe it was a legal play but it was still a cheap shot and I'd be pissed if Philly did that to our quarterback
Heard cousins looked really good except for the last two drives he shit the pot
We were only in the game because of his outstanding play but he definitely could have played better at the end
We should've definitely at least got a field goal out of that last drive to tie it
Very encouraged by the cousins play but the injuries are killing us,we have to beat the giants

Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[QUOTE=htownskinfan;1085437]I have been camping since Friday and just getting into town and getting caught up
Just seeing some of the replays and hearing about what transpired
I thought the hit by Baker on Nick was a cheap shot, maybe it was a legal play but it was still a cheap shot and I'd be pissed if Philly did that to our quarterback
Heard cousins looked really good except for the last two drives he shit the pot
We were only in the game because of his outstanding play but he definitely could have played better at the end
We should've definitely at least got a field goal out of that last drive to tie it
Very encouraged by the cousins play but the injuries are killing us,we have to beat the giants[/QUOTE]


Pretty much sums it up except if the defense and special teams hadnt shit the bed for the entire game, KC wouldnt have been in a pressure situation at the end. He played good enough for us to be up by 30 had any other phase of our team remotely resembled a football team.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1085429]What's the difference between Schaub and Brees. What's the difference between Brady and Ryan? Consistency and winning. Cousins can have good stats but he has to win and he has to have consistency. Time will tell.[/quote]Well, going by this standard, RG3 is done. He hasn't been consistent, except getting injured. And he hasn't been a winner except with the Shanahans back in 2012.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[QUOTE=punch it in;1085440]Pretty much sums it up except if the defense and special teams hadnt shit the bed for the entire game, KC wouldnt have been in a pressure situation at the end. He played good enough for us to be up by 30 had any other phase of our team remotely resembled a football team.[/QUOTE]


Yes I forgot to mention special-teams how could I have forgotten? I can't believe our special teams have been this bad for so long
If they're not missing field goals or having ppunts get blocked or letting Teams return for td they are getting a penalty when we make a good return, I don't see how it is so hard not to block somebody in the back

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[url=http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/article-1/WATCH-LIVE-Jay-Gruden-At-The-Podium/189b5add-20fd-4177-af72-c617ac9702f0]WATCH LIVE: Jay Gruden At The Podium[/url]

Gruden's presser from yesterday. At the 6:45 mark he talks about the 4th and 10 play. my quick transcription so errors and brevity may be there

"desean on a clear out route. roberts was running a 7 route and pierre was on a basic cross. Pierre ran a great route and just missed the throw ... there ws some pressure there ... play design had a couple good options ... want a few options capable of picking up 10 yards .."

Cousins just missed the last throw.

Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[QUOTE=over the mountain;1085448][url=http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/article-1/WATCH-LIVE-Jay-Gruden-At-The-Podium/189b5add-20fd-4177-af72-c617ac9702f0]WATCH LIVE: Jay Gruden At The Podium[/url]



Gruden's presser from yesterday. At the 6:45 mark he talks about the 4th and 10 play. my quick transcription so errors and brevity may be there



"desean on a clear out route. roberts was running a 7 route and pierre was on a basic cross. Pierre ran a great route and just missed the throw ... there ws some pressure there ... play design had a couple good options ... want a few options capable of picking up 10 yards .."



Cousins just missed the last throw.[/QUOTE]


So thats what happened? Lol
Edit: the worse part is had he hit Garcon there was (if i remember correctly) one S to beat. The S was not exactly in the greatest position to dtop Garcon either. That could have been 7.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

when i saw it, i thought perhaps garcon made a read and broke his route to get into the open space and kirk just didnt read it the same way and assumed garcon would continue the route going straight (and into coverage).

i was curious if the last play was bc kirk and garcon arent on the same page yet vs kirk just missing the throw/bothered by peripheral pressure.

turns out - kirk made a bad throw bc of perceived pressure .... (devils advocate to defend kirk says the last thing you want is for your qb to take a sack on 4th down and at least kirk was aware of that .. albeit maybe too aware and sensitive)

i still think kirk's throws on 2nd and 3rd down (2 consecutive out routes) were very accurate throws but bad decisions as the corner was blanketing the receiver and anticipating a sideline throw.

wish we had called a screen on 2nd or 3rd instead but thats hindsight.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=htownskinfan;1085437]I have been camping since Friday and just getting into town and getting caught up
Just seeing some of the replays and hearing about what transpired
[B]I thought the hit by Baker on Nick was a cheap shot, maybe it was a legal play but it was still a cheap shot and I'd be pissed if Philly did that to our quarterback[/B]
Heard cousins looked really good except for the last two drives he shit the pot
We were only in the game because of his outstanding play but he definitely could have played better at the end
We should've definitely at least got a field goal out of that last drive to tie it
Very encouraged by the cousins play but the injuries are killing us,we have to beat the giants[/quote]
Somebody who saw the game can maybe add to this, but when I was listening to the radio, there was a play near the end zone when we were driving (the one that ended with the missed field goal), and KC took a delay of game penalty. On that play a Philly defender came and took a cheap shot on Cousins, no flag.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1085429]What's the difference between Schaub and Brees. What's the difference between Brady and Ryan? Consistency and winning. Cousins can have good stats but he has to win and he has to have consistency. Time will tell.[/quote]

I'm curious to know how you (and some others around here) would be acting had RG3 put on that exact performance Sunday. It'd be "he's a pocket passer now!!!" We all know you'd be on here going ape shit about how great he is. And he may be great one day, but he's not right now and he's had 3 major injuries in 6 years to his legs.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

C - it was loud and they guy actually dove at cousins, it was late but excusable imo if you watched the play. gruden did mention it in his presser saying they hit our QB 3 seconds after the whistle ... but gruden did a good job of not criticizing the refs

it was close but a good non-call imo. of course i hope the skins get the same benefit of the doubt in the future bc that situation happens once every couple games

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

Thanks. The radio crew went on about it for a minute or two, but they are obviously biased so I wasn't sure

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=htownskinfan;1085437]I have been camping since Friday and just getting into town and getting caught up
Just seeing some of the replays and hearing about what transpired
I thought the hit by Baker on Nick was a cheap shot, maybe it was a legal play but it was still a cheap shot and I'd be pissed if Philly did that to our quarterback
Heard cousins looked really good except for the last two drives he shit the pot
We were only in the game because of his outstanding play but he definitely could have played better at the end
We should've definitely at least got a field goal out of that last drive to tie it
Very encouraged by the cousins play but the injuries are killing us,we have to beat the giants[/quote]

I thought the hit on Foles was not as cheap as the hit that DJax took on his injured shoulder earlier in the game. Luckily it was flagged, but they were obviously targeting his injured shoulder.

If QBs are protected after an INT, then they should not be allowed to tackle the ball carrier.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1085462]I thought the hit on Foles was [B]not as cheap as the hit that DJax took on his injured shoulder earlier in the game. [/B] Luckily it was flagged, but they were obviously targeting his injured shoulder.

If QBs are protected after an INT, then they should not be allowed to tackle the ball carrier.[/quote]

Although I thought that DJax reacted poorly, I could not blame him for being upset. It was transparent that he took a cheap shot directed against his hurt shoulder.

Personally, I thought the Eagle (Jenkins) should have been ejected from the game for headhunting.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1085462]I thought the hit on Foles was not as cheap as the hit that DJax took on his injured shoulder earlier in the game. Luckily it was flagged, but they were obviously targeting his injured shoulder.

[B]If QBs are protected after an INT, then they should not be allowed to tackle the ball carrier.[/B][/quote]

yeah, they have to do something about that. a QB cant be protected but still eligible to make a tackle.

Article 9 It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless
posture.
[B](a) Players in a defenseless posture are: [/B]
OFFICIAL NFL PLAYING RULES 73(1) A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass;
(2) A receiver attempting to catch a pass; or who has completed a catch and has not had time to
protect himself or has not clearly become a runner. If the receiver/runner is capable of avoiding or
warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player;
(3) A runner already in the grasp of a tackler and whose forward progress has been stopped;
(4) A kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air;
(5) A player on the ground at the end of a play;
(6) A kicker/punter during the kick or during the return;
[B](7) A quarterback at any time after a change of possession,[/B] and
(8) A player who receives a “blindside” block when the blocker is moving toward his own endline and
approaches the opponent from behind or from the side.
(b) Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is:
(1) Forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or
shoulder, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless
player by encircling or grasping him; and
(2) Lowering the head and making forcible contact with the top/crown or forehead/”hairline” parts of
the helmet against any part of the defenseless player’s body.
Note: The provisions of (2) do not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or helmet in the course of a
conventional tackle on an opponent.
Penalty: For unnecessary roughness: Loss of 15 yards. The player may be disqualified if the action is
judged by the official(s) to be flagrant.

[url]http://www.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/15_Rule12_Player_Conduct.pdf[/url]

above is complete rule on Player Conduct (blocking, tackling, personal fouls etc.)

[url=http://www.businessinsider.com/nick-foles-hit-ejection-2014-9]Why The Hit On Nick Foles Is Absolutely A Dirty Play - Business Insider[/url]

above is a decent write up of the play

-----------------------

the question comes down to "was baker's contact unnecessary"? foles was within 5 yards of an active play, the play was live and he was moving toward engaging the play. baker hit him in the front and below his neck area.

i still think it is PF every time just bc of the culture of protecting QBs. even if you are technically within the rules, the interpretation will always be to protect the QB. every single time.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1085441]Well, going by this standard, RG3 is done. He hasn't been consistent, except getting injured. And he hasn't been a winner except with the Shanahans back in 2012.[/quote]

I meant drop back QBs. Griffin won the division. Griffin carried the team to a Division title on his back. Cousins beat Cleveland.

Re: Skins vs. Eagles Post-Game
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1085468]I meant drop back QBs. Shanahans' won the division.Shanahans' carried the team to a Division title on his back. Cousins beat Cleveland.[/quote]

sorry i couldnt resist. the shanahans dont get nearly as much credit for 2012 as they should. in 2012 this fan base was enshrining them into the skins HOF and now, after some drama from all parties involved, history has been re-written to where they are a mere footnote in the history books re 2012.