Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1094561]Seriously? Both of you? How is it Jay's fault that he was strapped with a shit DC leftover from Shanny's regime? How come he's overridden on QB calls on who to play? Why is Gruden getting the blame for Robert's progress? Maybe Jay is teaching him, but he isn't learning shit?

[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/13018/drama-returns-to-redskins-park]Drama returns to Redskins Park - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN[/url]




He's being taught properly. It's the QB not doing what he's supposed to do which is the problem.

I will agree with you Matty that Jay probably shouldn't be this upfront in his press conferences. He should take notes from BB on how to do them.[/quote]


No gotta disagree

Gruden can't keep discipline in his team, and he doesn't seem to be capable to making adjustments to improve the team's play.

He seems to think that all he needs to do is tell his players to do something and they'll do it.

This unending drama would have never happened under Gibbs

I don't think Gruden is the long term answer as head coach (3 seasons and out I think)

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1094561]Seriously? Both of you? How is it Jay's fault that he was strapped with a shit DC leftover from Shanny's regime? How come he's overridden on QB calls on who to play? Why is Gruden getting the blame for Robert's progress? Maybe Jay is teaching him, but he isn't learning shit?

[URL="http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/13018/drama-returns-to-redskins-park"]Drama returns to Redskins Park - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN[/URL]




He's being taught properly. It's the QB not doing what he's supposed to do which is the problem.

I will agree with you Matty that Jay probably shouldn't be this upfront in his press conferences. He should take notes from BB on how to do them.[/quote]

How do you explain Pierre Garcon going from one of the most reliable receivers in the NFL under the Shanahans to a complete after thought under Gruden? How do you explain the lack of improvement in special teams despite the obvious investment in them in the form of special teams specialists? How do you explain the lack of discipline with penalties, lining up wrong, receivers false starting on their own QB's hard count?

And Cousins. How do you explain him throwing countless INTs? Is he being careless, sure. But his coaches sure didn't make a positive impact.

This crap can't all be on Griffin. It's systemic. Gruden needs to show why he was hired and take this team by the balls and lead it. Like really lead it. He needs to be acting like Bill Parcells if someone pissed in his coffee.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Chico23231;1094620]This post is so so poor, I think its the worse thing Ive ever seen on the board. So RG3 needs to go to a run and shoot team like Denver or New England? jesus christ what an idiot. He sounds like a college football fan.

The problem we are facing is that atheleticism will never hid poor fundemental passing concepts for a QB. Its been proven time and time again.[/quote]

What I was getting at was that Shanahan had him playing the spread cause he was familiar with it and had a hard time learning the WCO, which he still does, as well as the pocket presence.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1094638]What I was getting at was that Shanahan had him playing the spread cause he was familiar with it and had a hard time learning the WCO, which he still does, as well as the pocket presence.[/quote]

Well he needs to recognize defenses too and where you go with the ball. These are the differences in a garbage Baylor, texas am and tcu schemes vs a pro style Stanford team. You want a QB who knows the basics coming out. The thing with RG3 is seems like a smart, hard worker, and high character guy who could be coached to learn how to become a pocket passer.

But he seems to be more worried about social media and not taking the responsibility for the teams poor play. I dont ever want to see RG3 do that again at a press conference when he deflects responsibilty. Its year 3, no more of that shit.

You see Peyton at the podium after the loss against St. Louis? Thats why that dude wins and has the support of every team he's ever been on. Peyton put that loss all on him. RG3 needs to man the fuck up and do the same.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Lotus;1094586]You are right. In fact,Griffin essentially sacks himself. By holding the ball as he does, realistically he often says, "Please sack me."

The fact that, after sacking himself repeatedly, he still called out other players made me lose respect for RGIII, and I am one of his backers. [B] You can't call out others like that because you are too arrogant to admit that you f***ed up.[/B]

No wonder his development is so stunted. [B] No matter how hard you work, it is hard to improve if you spend your time admiring your reflection.[/B][/quote]

“All the sacks are on me, period."

"When I say, ‘All the sacks on are me,’ I’m saying I can do better and I have to do better."

"I will be the first to say I could have done better, a lot better.”

"I didn’t see the field as well as I would have liked to."

"I am not playing that way[at a high level]..."

"I haven’t watched the film yet but I know there are some plays that I would like to have back – of course the interceptions, and there are a couple of plays that come to mind where I feel like I could have been more aggressive. Those plays are in my head. They will stay in my head..."

"I promise you that I will get better."

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1094647]Well he needs to recognize defenses too and where you go with the ball. These are the differences in a garbage Baylor, texas am and tcu schemes vs a pro style Stanford team. You want a QB who knows the basics coming out. The thing with RG3 is seems like a smart, hard worker, and high character guy who could be coached to learn how to become a pocket passer.



But he seems to be more worried about social media and not taking the responsibility for the teams poor play. I dont ever want to see RG3 do that again at a press conference when he deflects responsibilty. Its year 3, no more of that shit.



You see Peyton at the podium after the loss against St. Louis? Thats why that dude wins and has the support of every team he's ever been on. Peyton put that loss all on him. RG3 needs to man the fuck up and do the same.[/QUOTE]


Wish it was that easy. I agree with everything you say except, and its a big except, i do not think Griff can be that QB. He is not even close to being that qb. Not even close.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=SirLK26;1094650]“All the sacks are on me, period."



"When I say, ‘All the sacks on are me,’ I’m saying I can do better and I have to do better."



"I will be the first to say I could have done better, a lot better.”



"I didn’t see the field as well as I would have liked to."



"I am not playing that way[at a high level]..."



"I haven’t watched the film yet but I know there are some plays that I would like to have back – of course the interceptions, and there are a couple of plays that come to mind where I feel like I could have been more aggressive. Those plays are in my head. They will stay in my head..."



"I promise you that I will get better."[/QUOTE]


Yup. Its funny. I have absolutely no idea why people get on Griff for what he says. I think he is very humble, modest, and mature. I do not think he deflects blame. I think his words are often misconstrued. Problem is words dont win games. Play wins games. Unfortunately that is something imo that is terribly lacking. Not his damn tweets. Who gives a shit about his effin tweets.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=SirLK26;1094650]“All the sacks are on me, period."

"When I say, ‘All the sacks on are me,’ I’m saying I can do better and I have to do better."

"I will be the first to say I could have done better, a lot better.”

"I didn’t see the field as well as I would have liked to."

"I am not playing that way[at a high level]..."

"I haven’t watched the film yet but I know there are some plays that I would like to have back – of course the interceptions, and there are a couple of plays that come to mind where I feel like I could have been more aggressive. Those plays are in my head. They will stay in my head..."

"I promise you that I will get better."[/quote]

You have cherry-picked quotes out of context. In context, what you find is him calling out others, too. And, given what I've seen and heard, I'm not sure that those moments when RGIII does appear to be self-critical are sincere.

Chico is right. You can't be an NFL QB and talk like RGIII. Manning, Rodgers, Brees, and Brady publicly criticize ONLY themselves. And, perhaps more importantly, they take their self-criticism seriously.

RGIII is smart enough to fix all of his problems, begging the question of why he hasn't done so. The best apparent answer to this question is that he is too arrogant to truly, sincerely admit his shortcomings, much less fix them. He appears to be the Lavar Arrington of QB's: too full of himself to play within someone else's system.

I have staunchly supported RGIII but my respect for him has taken a hard knock this week.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

What do expect from a qb that has had 2 offensive coordinators, 2 major injuries and a terrible O-Line?

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=SirLK26;1094650]“All the sacks are on me, period."

"When I say, ‘All the sacks on are me,’ I’m saying I can do better and I have to do better."

"I will be the first to say I could have done better, a lot better.”

"I didn’t see the field as well as I would have liked to."

"I am not playing that way[at a high level]..."

"I haven’t watched the film yet but I know there are some plays that I would like to have back – of course the interceptions, and there are a couple of plays that come to mind where I feel like I could have been more aggressive. Those plays are in my head. They will stay in my head..."

"I promise you that I will get better."[/quote]

Unfortunately, he also had some words to say about his teammates and what he said about them seemed to me to be an indirect way of placing some of the blame on them. Don't get me wrong; his teammates do share in the blame, but when you are the starting QB, people take it poorly when there is any hint of blaming others in what you say.

It has always been this way in the NFL. The QB gets too much credit and too much blame. The QB also makes the big bucks and he can quickly stir up resentment among his teammates if he isn't careful about what he says about them.

He simply needs to confine his comments to his own play to avoid problems.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=tc2deuce;1094662]What do expect from a qb that has had 2 offensive coordinators, 2 major injuries and a terrible O-Line?[/quote]

The OC and OL excuses are tired

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Lotus;1094658]You have cherry-picked quotes out of context. In context, what you find is him calling out others, too. And, given what I've seen and heard, I'm not sure that those moments when RGIII does appear to be self-critical are sincere.

Chico is right. You can't be an NFL QB and talk like RGIII. Manning, Rodgers, Brees, and Brady publicly criticize ONLY themselves. And, perhaps more importantly, they take their self-criticism seriously.

RGIII is smart enough to fix all of his problems, begging the question of why he hasn't done so. The best apparent answer to this question is that he is too arrogant to truly, sincerely admit his shortcomings, much less fix them. He appears to be the Lavar Arrington of QB's: too full of himself to play within someone else's system.

I have staunchly supported RGIII but my respect for him has taken a hard knock this week.[/quote]

You said he was too arrogant to admit that he f*cked up. Those quotes show otherwise.

And it's interesting that you brought up cherry-picking, given that this whole "controversy" came about because some dumbsh*t media members and fans cherrypicked the "calling out" quotes that started the whole thing. Griffin never really criticized anybody, I took it more as him wanting accountability. Kaepernick earlier this year flat out said that his offensive line needed to play better; Griffin said nothing like that.


And you and Chico say that the great QBs don't say anything like Griffin did. Allow me to "cherry-pick" some quotes from a press conference by one Tom Brady.

"It was just a bad performance by everybody..."

"The guys who have opportunities to make plays, we’ve got to make them. That’s me, certainly, and skill players and we’ve got to do more on first down"

"I mean I think there’s not much that we’re doing well enough on a consistent basis to score points. Run game, pass game, consistently when we have to throw it, when we have to run it, convert on third down, red area, it’s all a problem."

"I think it’s not necessarily one position, it’s all positions."(talking about the team needing to do a better job)

"I mean, I think certainly running the ball and stopping the run is important to the physical toughness of the team. You just lose control of the game and it becomes one-dimensional like it did there in the third quarter and we stopped running it."(Patriots couldn't stop the run in this game)

"It’s not one posititon on offense, it’s everybody and certainly the play-makers that we have and the skill guys, we’ve all got to make plays."

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=SirLK26;1094671]You said he was too arrogant to admit that he f*cked up. [B]Those quotes show otherwise.[/B]

And it's interesting that you brought up cherry-picking, given that this whole "controversy" came about because some dumbsh*t media members and fans cherrypicked the "calling out" quotes that started the whole thing. Griffin never really criticized anybody, I took it more as him wanting accountability. Kaepernick earlier this year flat out said that his offensive line needed to play better; Griffin said nothing like that.


And you and Chico say that the great QBs don't say anything like Griffin did. Allow me to "cherry-pick" some quotes from a press conference by one Tom Brady.

"It was just a bad performance by everybody..."

"The guys who have opportunities to make plays, we’ve got to make them. That’s me, certainly, and skill players and we’ve got to do more on first down"

"I mean I think there’s not much that we’re doing well enough on a consistent basis to score points. Run game, pass game, consistently when we have to throw it, when we have to run it, convert on third down, red area, it’s all a problem."

"I think it’s not necessarily one position, it’s all positions."(talking about the team needing to do a better job)

"I mean, I think certainly running the ball and stopping the run is important to the physical toughness of the team. You just lose control of the game and it becomes one-dimensional like it did there in the third quarter and we stopped running it."(Patriots couldn't stop the run in this game)

"It’s not one posititon on offense, it’s everybody and certainly the play-makers that we have and the skill guys, we’ve all got to make plays."[/quote]

In context, what your quotes show is that RGIII is given to insincerity.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1094670]The OC and OL excuses are tired[/quote]

I agree.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1094670]The OC and OL excuses are tired[/quote]

Of course they are tired. We havent had a decent OL since the hogs and have dealt with the coaching carousel for almost as long. They are very tired, they are 20 years old.

However, none of that makes them invalid. Not having a good OL is detrimental to the team, which is pretty widely understood and accepted. Constantly changing systems, which by nature means constantly changing players to fit your scheme, is also detrimental to the team, which is pretty widely understood and accepted.

If people only started complaining about the OL and coaching carousel since RG3 arrived, then they havent been paying attention the last 2 decades.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=SirLK26;1094671]You said he was too arrogant to admit that he f*cked up. Those quotes show otherwise.

And it's interesting that you brought up cherry-picking, given that this whole "controversy" came about because some dumbsh*t media members and fans cherrypicked the "calling out" quotes that started the whole thing. Griffin never really criticized anybody, I took it more as him wanting accountability. Kaepernick earlier this year flat out said that his offensive line needed to play better; Griffin said nothing like that.


And you and Chico say that the great QBs don't say anything like Griffin did. Allow me to "cherry-pick" some quotes from a press conference by one Tom Brady.

"It was just a bad performance by everybody..."

"The guys who have opportunities to make plays, we’ve got to make them. That’s me, certainly, and skill players and we’ve got to do more on first down"

"I mean I think there’s not much that we’re doing well enough on a consistent basis to score points. Run game, pass game, consistently when we have to throw it, when we have to run it, convert on third down, red area, it’s all a problem."

"I think it’s not necessarily one position, it’s all positions."(talking about the team needing to do a better job)

"I mean, I think certainly running the ball and stopping the run is important to the physical toughness of the team. You just lose control of the game and it becomes one-dimensional like it did there in the third quarter and we stopped running it."(Patriots couldn't stop the run in this game)

"It’s not one posititon on offense, it’s everybody and certainly the play-makers that we have and the skill guys, we’ve all got to make plays."[/quote]

Another thing is RG3's bodily language during the presser. His expressions, he is wide eyed at times, and generally defensive. Which is a terrible look for a guy not taking responsibility.

And the fact he runs home and post on twitter and facebook rather than speak directly.

And comparing Tom Brady and RG3 really doesnt make sense at this point.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Lotus;1094658]You have cherry-picked quotes out of context. In context, what you find is him calling out others, too. And, given what I've seen and heard, I'm not sure that those moments when RGIII does appear to be self-critical are sincere.

Chico is right. You can't be an NFL QB and talk like RGIII. Manning, Rodgers, Brees, and Brady publicly criticize ONLY themselves. And, perhaps more importantly, they take their self-criticism seriously.

RGIII is smart enough to fix all of his problems, begging the question of why he hasn't done so. The best apparent answer to this question is that he is too arrogant to truly, sincerely admit his shortcomings, much less fix them. He appears to be the Lavar Arrington of QB's: too full of himself to play within someone else's system.

I have staunchly supported RGIII but my respect for him has taken a hard knock this week.[/quote]


Santana Moss called out RG3 last year for this too. My problem is its happening again. He should know better.

But see, now we are talking about this bs and not the fact RG3 doesnt know where to go with the ball when the defense checks into cover 2.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Chico23231;1094693]Another thing is RG3's bodily language during the presser. His expressions, he is wide eyed at times, and generally defensive. Which is a terrible look for a guy not taking responsibility.

And the fact he runs home and post on twitter and facebook rather than speak directly.

And comparing Tom Brady and RG3 really doesnt make sense at this point.[/quote]

What, comparing Griffin to Peyton Manning makes sense, but comparing him to Brady doesn't?

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=12thMan;1094684]I agree.[/quote]

Rivers is on his 3rd OC in 3 years. It's not that uncommon.

And, I don't recall the OL looking so awful when Colt (even Kirk) were playing QB.

Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1094693]Another thing is RG3's bodily language during the presser. His expressions, he is wide eyed at times, and generally defensive. Which is a terrible look for a guy not taking responsibility.



And the fact he runs home and post on twitter and facebook rather than speak directly.



And comparing Tom Brady and RG3 really doesnt make sense at this point.[/QUOTE]


Speaking of a terrible look...
[IMG]http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/18/55c1f98941f3784ecf078f97b3e819ed.jpg[/IMG]
Wtf with that hat?

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;1094706]Rivers is on his 3rd OC in 3 years. It's not that uncommon.



And, I don't recall the OL looking so awful when Colt (even Kirk) were playing QB.[/QUOTE]


Yeah but this was the Bucs. Lee Roy Selmon and Warren Sapp were in full on beast mode. Griff never had a chance man.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1094706]Rivers is on his 3rd OC in 3 years. It's not that uncommon.

And, I don't recall the OL looking so awful when Colt (even Kirk) were playing QB.[/quote]

You quoted the guy that agreed with you but since the response was intended for me.

As for Philip Rivers. Did they bring in 3 different systems? Slight changes in what you do is one thing, an entirely new system is quite different. Since I dont follow them, I have no clue as to that answer. Even so, I would expect a vet QB to handle changes better than a young one.

The OL was bad in the Houston game and RG3 threw short passes. He was criticized for short passes. Colt does the same thing, short passes. But he is also not trying to learn the WCO on the fly and is better at his timing in this offense, I have never said otherwise. Kirk just took a three step drop and threw it, who cares who it was to. Not exactly a great standard to judge an OL. Although if you remember the Giants game, remember those hits Cousins took. Remember it was shortly after those hits that the just drop and throw regardless of who it went to started happening. I would say the OL had a pretty big impact on KC. He went from running the offense efficiently to hurrying everything as fast as possible regardless of the outcome.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Skinzman;1094713]You quoted the guy that agreed with you but since the response was intended for me.

As for Philip Rivers. Did they bring in 3 different systems? Slight changes in what you do is one thing, an entirely new system is quite different. Since I dont follow them, I have no clue as to that answer. Even so, I would expect a vet QB to handle changes better than a young one.

The OL was bad in the Houston game and RG3 threw short passes. He was criticized for short passes. Colt does the same thing, short passes. But he is also not trying to learn the WCO on the fly and is better at his timing in this offense, I have never said otherwise. Kirk just took a three step drop and threw it, who cares who it was to. Not exactly a great standard to judge an OL. Although if you remember the Giants game, remember those hits Cousins took. Remember it was shortly after those hits that the just drop and throw regardless of who it went to started happening. I would say the OL had a pretty big impact on KC. He went from running the offense efficiently to hurrying everything as fast as possible regardless of the outcome.[/quote]

The changes aren't radical from Kyle to McVay either

I'm not saying the OL's been great. But I'm pretty tired of the blame always been shifted to them.

For fuck's sake, Robert your the anointed (even self-anointed) franchise QB of one of the most storied organizations in pro sports history, the team mortgaged a huge chunk of its future for you? Is that your fault? No, but so what. Life is not fair. Get the fuck over yourself and man up. And if you can't, if the problem is that after all the effort and hard work you're putting you're still not grasping it then it's time to move the fuck on. Fucking A

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2014/11/18/ex-redskins-applaud-jay-grudens-blunt-talk/]Ex-Redskins applaud Jay Gruden’s blunt talk - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1094716]The changes aren't radical from Kyle to McVay either

I'm not saying the OL's been great. But I'm pretty tired of the blame always been shifted to them.

For fuck's sake, Robert your the anointed (even self-anointed) franchise QB of one of the most storied organizations in pro sports history, the team mortgaged a huge chunk of its future for you? Is that your fault? No, but so what. Life is not fair. Get the fuck over yourself and man up. And if you can't, if the problem is that after all the effort and hard work you're putting you're still not grasping it then it's time to move the fuck on. Fucking A....

that was intended for you Skinz ;)[/quote]

And thats part of the problem. We never want to fix a problem. Its always just say fuck it and move on. To me, thats a HUGE problem. There are clear problems to be solved, but as long as we can hire 10 coaches in 10 years, that is deemed a solution for some reason. Its not a solution at all, its a problem.

Its one of the main reasons we are no longer the Raiders of the East, but are making the Raiders the Redskins of the West.

Edit... Hehe - I got the intended for me in my quote before you got it edited. And no, thats not a shot at you, I just found it funny.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=Skinzman;1094728]And thats part of the problem. We never want to fix a problem. Its always just say fuck it and move on. To me, thats a HUGE problem. There are clear problems to be solved, but as long as we can hire 10 coaches in 10 years, that is deemed a solution for some reason. Its not a solution at all, its a problem.

Its one of the main reasons we are no longer the Raiders of the East, but are making the Raiders the Redskins of the West.[/quote]

You can't remove Snyder... I think he is the biggest problem.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=donofriose;1094729]You can't remove Snyder... I think he is the biggest problem.[/quote]

I honestly cant say I disagree with you.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1094726][url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2014/11/18/ex-redskins-applaud-jay-grudens-blunt-talk/]Ex-Redskins applaud Jay Gruden’s blunt talk - The Washington Post[/url][/quote]

The question is why Gruden can't get this kind of commitment, effort and focus from his players?

It's too easy and inaccurate to just say no coach has done that under Snyder's ownership. Gibbs did, Williams did, hell even Greg Blache did out of his players.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

Because he's a mediocre coach

Being able to talk bluntly =/= Good Coach

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

2015 draft - S, OL, OL,, OL, LB, CB, S,DL. - Free agency - S, OL, LB, CB, QB
RAK - no resigned unless with reasonable contract
HAZ - gone - BACK to 4-3 (easier to draft DT than NT)
Allen will not be gone - higher assistant GM in charge of personal, More and better scouting department
position changes - Kerrigan - DE, Rak (if reasigned) DE, Robinson OLB
cut - chester, polumbus, louava (sp) Clark, Porter, and older players with high cap.

Unfortunatly no way Snyder sells the team or I'd say cut him too....

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1094706]Rivers is on his 3rd OC in 3 years. It's not that uncommon.

And, I don't recall the OL looking so awful when Colt (even Kirk) were playing QB.[/quote]


Rivers went through a long time period where he was developed. Rivers was considered a bust at one point, but the Chargers stuck with him. Rivers in his 3rd year was not a franchise QB. Is it fair to compare a 3rd year QB to a 10 year vet?

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=Gary84Clark;1094751]Rivers went through a long time period where he was developed. Rivers was considered a bust at one point, but the Chargers stuck with him. Rivers in his 3rd year was not a franchise QB. Is it fair to compare a 3rd year QB to a 10 year vet?[/QUOTE]


Rivers played behind drew brees for two years and was a pro bowler in his first or second year starting. Never really looked back.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

I like everyone else wish for Dan Snyder to sell the team. But that's never gonna have a chance of happening unless fans can get in his pocket by not buying merchandise, not coming to games, not buying his expired beer, etc... Lots of people talk a big talk but if we as fans all banded together and said "no more", changes could happen.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=punch it in;1094754]Rivers played behind drew brees for two years and was a pro bowler in his first or second year starting. Never really looked back.[/quote]

He had a couple red shirt years. That seems to be a common theme (i.e. discount double check)

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1094716]The changes aren't radical from Kyle to McVay either

I'm not saying the OL's been great. But I'm pretty tired of the blame always been shifted to them.

For fuck's sake, Robert your the anointed (even self-anointed) franchise QB of one of the most storied organizations in pro sports history, the team mortgaged a huge chunk of its future for you? Is that your fault? No, but so what. Life is not fair. Get the fuck over yourself and man up. And if you can't, if the problem is that after all the effort and hard work you're putting you're still not grasping it then it's time to move the fuck on. Fucking A[/quote]

Love Robert.....really hope he can grasp the situation and rise to the occasion for many reasons. BUT...time will tell. And if it's"move on time", then so be it

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

If Gruden going to be the coach and he feel Robert not the answer, we need to be looking in the draft for a qb. All three of these guys are not the answer! Qb and o-line is want they need to be looking for! Let Gruden get the one he want, so it's no more not my guy! This guy got 4 more years so let's built it around his style!

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

Anyway why is it Alfred Morris's success is tied to RG3 being behind center? If the o-line was decent then it shouldn't matter who's handing the ball off to Morris. O-line ain't squat. RG3 needs to work on the things Gruden says, but hell Cousins did all the right footwork and threw 4 picks in one game. That footwork excuse is bogus. Cousins does all the right things but the QB position throws the damn game away when he is on the field. Stay the course and be patient.

BTW Somebody need to call Ryan Clark out. WTF is he doing, he should be straight up cut.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[quote=SirLK26;1094671]You said he was too arrogant to admit that he f*cked up. Those quotes show otherwise.

And it's interesting that you brought up cherry-picking, given that this whole "controversy" came about because some dumbsh*t media members and fans cherrypicked the "calling out" quotes that started the whole thing. Griffin never really criticized anybody, I took it more as him wanting accountability. Kaepernick earlier this year flat out said that his offensive line needed to play better; Griffin said nothing like that.


[B]And you and Chico say that the great QBs don't say anything like Griffin did. Allow me to "cherry-pick" some quotes from a press conference by one Tom Brady.[/B]

"It was just a bad performance by everybody..."

"The guys who have opportunities to make plays, we’ve got to make them. That’s me, certainly, and skill players and we’ve got to do more on first down"

"I mean I think there’s not much that we’re doing well enough on a consistent basis to score points. Run game, pass game, consistently when we have to throw it, when we have to run it, convert on third down, red area, it’s all a problem."

"I think it’s not necessarily one position, it’s all positions."(talking about the team needing to do a better job)

"I mean, I think certainly running the ball and stopping the run is important to the physical toughness of the team. You just lose control of the game and it becomes one-dimensional like it did there in the third quarter and we stopped running it."(Patriots couldn't stop the run in this game)

"It’s not one posititon on offense, it’s everybody and certainly the play-makers that we have and the skill guys, we’ve all got to make plays."[/quote]

And let's not forget the famous quote by Manning: "Idiot kicker." The truth is that sooner or later, just about every QB will, out of frustration, say something about the performance of otgers on the team and, let's face it, they are always the ones up at the podium being asked to comment on all aspects of the game (along with the HC).

I think RGIII took his share of the blame, and he also expects that his teammates to perform better and I don't fault him for saying it. And the way he phrased it -- "I need the guys to play better" -- struck me as a lot less offensive than the way it has been phrased by other QBs. The social media postings bug me, but about as much as a gnat. Who cares? Just focus on getting the job done.

I also thought that Gruden was refreshingly blunt, and I rather liked it. But the key is how the team responds. Some hardass coaches could be that way and the guys responded well. One of my favorite quotes about Vince Lombardi from one of his players: "Yeah, Coach Lombardi is great. He treats us all the same. He treats us like dogs." He could be hard on guys, and he was also like a father to them at the same time. And he got results. I don't see Gruden likely being able to pull that off, but maybe he's got a little Chuckie in him after all.

I just hope they come out this weekend pissed off and ready to rip someone's head off. Would be a nice change.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

[QUOTE=Gary84Clark;1094757]He had a couple red shirt years. That seems to be a common theme (i.e. discount double check)[/QUOTE]


Yeah so did Steve Young. When you are talking about Montana, Favre, and Brees there is no shame in being "redshirted". Also does not mean those guys couldnt have played sooner.

Re: Jay Gruden you are our only hope
 

You can add Russell Wilson to that list too -- didn't start until his second year. It seems that in today's NFL, very few guys can come out as rookies and really perform at a high level -- Luck is a rare exception. But most either start slowly or sit for a year or more before taking the reins and executing. Obviously, Shanahan thought RGIII could be one of those rare exceptions, and for at least the second half of 2012, he appeared to be correct. But between the injury, being rushed back, and some regression, RGIII isn't close to what you'd like to see in your third year starter.

Can he get there? Maybe -- I don't think anyone really knows. He has incredible physical gifts, and I believe him to be a hard worker and smart. Those things suggest he can, but surely don't guarantee it -- the position is that hard. Having said all that, clearly the rest of this season will be designed to test that proposition, and by season's end, we'll have a better idea (and perhaps even a conclusive answer -- surely we will know if he isn't the guy).