Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1111096] As for KC, I just don't see him ever losing his knack for throwing untimely interceptions - it's just part of who he is.[/quote]

for what is worth, 6 of KC's 9 ints last year came when we were down by 9 points or more.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2015/03/23/why-isnt-kirk-cousins-getting-a-shot-to-start/]Why isn’t Kirk Cousins getting a shot to start? - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: Next years QB
 

KC can win you the game in the 4th quarter. He can be bated into throwing picks. RG is shell shocked after the 2 injuries to he lower body. In his first season I saw him look off defenders, go through progressions and find the open man. After he was hurt, he changed. became unaware in the pocket and stopped looking downfield.

My hope is that we trade for Phillip Rivers or Mike Glennon.

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=Defensewins;1111077]While Griffin is a work horse when it comes to working out and getting fit physically. I can not say the same thing when it comes to the mental part of playing QB in the NFL. Proof is in the fact he is in his 4th year (?) and he is mentally...not ready. With all that time he missed due to injuries, that you talk about, he did not come back any more prepared mentally.
I was disappointed to hear Gruden had to dummy down the playbook/game plan for Griffin. I hope he comes back better than ever. I would be ok giving him another chance in 2015 but his attitude has to change. His inflated ego could not fit through the locker room door.
The biggest thing for me is there has to be a real competition at EVERY position. No free rides please. That shit I hope is gone now that we have a new GM. I do not want to see Gruden being told who he should start at QB.
Our Head coach and GM should decide who starts, not someone else.[/quote]

I agree with your whole post but you are dead wrong if you believe that the GM Hiring changes everything. It starts at the top. As long as DS is owner, he is going to tell his guys who they are playing. And if they don't like that, or they feel like maybe they should have a voice, then they took a job working for the wrong organization.

Griffin starts this year and for as long as DS is willing to pay him. And that's fact.

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1111105]I agree with your whole post but you are dead wrong if you believe that the GM Hiring changes everything. It starts at the top. As long as DS is owner, he is going to tell his guys who they are playing. And if they don't like that, or they feel like maybe they should have a voice, then they took a job working for the wrong organization.

Griffin starts this year and for as long as DS is willing to pay him. And that's fact.[/quote]

What proof do you have to make that a fact?

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1111096]... just like he did in college. As Lotus (and others) are fond of mentioning, Cousins is, in many ways, Rex Grossman 2.0 - scary streaky. You almost can count on him to make a two gut wrenching turnovers a game.

Here's the thing for me - both KC and RGIII need to change from who they were in college and who they have been in the pros.

For RGIII, he has to transition from an entirely different way of playing the game and adapt his considerable talent to a style of play he has not only never mastered but has never really learned. [I]IF[/I] he can dedicate himself to learning to be different from the QB he has always been, accept his NFL coaches coaching and finally put behind him all the "He's fine, his mechanics are good" enabling he gets from Tedford and Bryles, then [I]maybe[/I], maybe he gets his deep ball mojo back and his low turnover/sack ratio that he had back in college (look at his TD/INT ratio in college - it was insane. Yes, I know, it was a spread offense and, for the spread offense, QB's usually have very good TD/INT ratios). It is all on him - as others have said - to dedicate himself to the film room, listen to the coaches, and accept that he has to walk through an NFL offense before he run it. ---- If he can do all that, his ceiling - even in year four (the guy [I]just[/I] turned 25 in February!) - is simply much, much higher than Kirk's.

For KC, he has to figure out how to stop throwing picks. He needs to change something in how he views the field, works his progressions, or makes his decisions. My problem is that, unlike RGIII's flaws, I just don't know that there is anything that coaching can do to change KC's basic inability to consistently avoid picks. Sure, Gruden dumbed down the offense for KC but KC's constant turnovers completely stymied Gruden:



[url=http://fansided.com/2014/10/16/jay-gruden-doesnt-know-kirk-cousins-throws-interceptions/]Jay Gruden Can't Explain Kirk Cousins' Interceptions[/url]

So, on one hand you have a QB currently incapable of running a pro offense and who has clearly identifiable flaws that may be fixable with solid coaching and a player dedicated to change - a trait the player has not readily demonstrated.

On the other, you have a QB who has a higher floor but is also deeply flawed. Further, it's not even clear that there is a path to fixing his flaws because he has been making the same mistakes throughout his collegiate and professional career and there is no clear, identifiable teaching/coaching point to correct them.

Quite frankly, as much as I truly hope Griffin can get it together and The Guy - I just don't know if he ever will be able to do so. As for KC, I just don't see him ever losing his knack for throwing untimely interceptions - it's just part of who he is.[/quote]

Sadly a good breakdown of where we are. I am a tiny bit hopeful that actually having a full time QB Coach will move one of these two, KC/RG, up in the ranks, but right now it looks like we have only managed to do what the Redskins do so well - get stuck in 2 qb mode.

There is good news though.

And maybe some people will feel like:

[IMG]http://th00.deviantart.net/fs44/200H/f/2009/128/4/b/Crazy_Pills_by_Sosido.png[/IMG]

But here are 2 reasons for optimism:

(a) Scott appears to be on the right track to building a 'team' not just an offense.
There have been many performances by the offense over the past couple of seasons that could have warranted a W if not for defense and special teams.

(b) A more experienced coaching staff. I say again....a more experienced coaching staff. It was C R A Z Y to go into the season with a rookie HC, rookie OC and no QB coach. (I might make a thread later on just this 1 issue and how big of an impact it makes)

Our QBs are all works in progress and having a full-time QB coach will help them all. And its not as if our QBs are without talent all of then Griff, Kirk and Colt have proven to varying degrees that they can play in the NFL and there are current and former coaches that believe in them as starters in the NFL. (maybe its only Jay for Colt lol)

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1111108]Sadly a good breakdown of where we are. I am a tiny bit hopeful that actually having a full time QB Coach will move one of these two, KC/RG, up in the ranks, but right now it looks like we have only managed to do what the Redskins do so well - get stuck in 2 qb mode.[/quote]

Nothing new for us old folks: Kilmer vs. Jurgensen... each had their fans.

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=SCRedskinsFan;1111115]Nothing new for us old folks: Kilmer vs. Jurgensen... each had their fans.[/quote]

That's what I'm talking about, other than Theismann, and Sammy Baugh, we live in a 2 qb/no qb world. Why is that?

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1111096] ...For KC, he has to figure out how to stop throwing picks. He needs to change something in how he views the field, works his progressions, or makes his decisions. My problem is that, unlike RGIII's flaws, I just don't know that there is anything that coaching can do to change KC's basic inability to consistently avoid picks. [/quote]


[U]Three QBs, First 14 games of career, per game average[/U]
QB1 - 1.0 INT, 1.4 TD, 58% comp
QB2 - 1.3 INT, 1.3 TD, 59% comp
QB3 - 1.56 INT, 1.5 TD, 56.7% comp


Cousins is certainly not elite or top tier, and is no comparison to any top QB. However, just pointing out that other QB have struggled with interceptions when they started their careers. It doesn't mean he can't fix his issues long-term with experience, esp as we eventually can give him a lead & fix our O-line/running game/etc. Also if our Defense gets better, the INTs may not hurt as much. (QB1-3 are Luck, Cousins, and Peyton Manning)

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1111096]... just like he did in college. As Lotus (and others) are fond of mentioning, Cousins is, in many ways, Rex Grossman 2.0 - scary streaky. You almost can count on him to make a two gut wrenching turnovers a game.

Here's the thing for me - both KC and RGIII need to change from who they were in college and who they have been in the pros.

For RGIII, he has to transition from an entirely different way of playing the game and adapt his considerable talent to a style of play he has not only never mastered but has never really learned. [I]IF[/I] he can dedicate himself to learning to be different from the QB he has always been, accept his NFL coaches coaching and finally put behind him all the "He's fine, his mechanics are good" enabling he gets from Tedford and Bryles, then [I]maybe[/I], maybe he gets his deep ball mojo back and his low turnover/sack ratio that he had back in college (look at his TD/INT ratio in college - it was insane. Yes, I know, it was a spread offense and, for the spread offense, QB's usually have very good TD/INT ratios). It is all on him - as others have said - to dedicate himself to the film room, listen to the coaches, and accept that he has to walk through an NFL offense before he run it. ---- If he can do all that, his ceiling - even in year four (the guy [I]just[/I] turned 25 in February!) - is simply much, much higher than Kirk's.

For KC, he has to figure out how to stop throwing picks. He needs to change something in how he views the field, works his progressions, or makes his decisions. My problem is that, unlike RGIII's flaws, I just don't know that there is anything that coaching can do to change KC's basic inability to consistently avoid picks. Sure, Gruden dumbed down the offense for KC but KC's constant turnovers completely stymied Gruden:



[url=http://fansided.com/2014/10/16/jay-gruden-doesnt-know-kirk-cousins-throws-interceptions/]Jay Gruden Can't Explain Kirk Cousins' Interceptions[/url]

So, on one hand you have a QB currently incapable of running a pro offense and who has clearly identifiable flaws that may be fixable with solid coaching and a player dedicated to change - a trait the player has not readily demonstrated.

On the other, you have a QB who has a higher floor but is also deeply flawed. Further, it's not even clear that there is a path to fixing his flaws because he has been making the same mistakes throughout his collegiate and professional career and there is no clear, identifiable teaching/coaching point to correct them.

Quite frankly, as much as I truly hope Griffin can get it together and The Guy - I just don't know if he ever will be able to do so. As for KC, I just don't see him ever losing his knack for throwing untimely interceptions - it's just part of who he is.[/quote]

Well as far as college goes, KC had a 2 to 1 int ratio in a tough conference. He threw about 1 pick per 40 attempts or so? Not bad at all. Here? He's struggled like all QB's do. Just like Andrew Luck did as well. Is he suppose to be any different?

But you may be right. He might be the kind of guy that has some ints, kind of like Romo. But he also made many plays from the pocket as well. But I'll take that guy over one who can't do the basics. Give me a guy who can throw for 30 plus Td's and between 4500 and 5,000 and maybe 17 to 20 picks, over a guy who basically can't run the regular offense.

Re: Next years QB
 

Honestly, this article made me feel better about heading into the OTAs, training camp, and the season: [url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000486561/article/robert-griffin-iii-eagerly-preparing-for-vital-season-with-redskins]Robert Griffin III eagerly preparing for vital season with Redskins - NFL.com[/url]

I really hope it comes together for RGIII.

Re: Next years QB
 

I was just about to post this as well calia. It is a good read and I am truly pulling for this kid!

Re: Next years QB
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/21/brady-declined-to-give-griffin-pointers/?utm_network=twitter&utm_post=3605535&utm_source=TW%20%40SNFonNBC&utm_tags=srm]Brady declined to give Griffin pointers | ProFootballTalk[/url][football%2Carticle]

[quote]So Griffin was either subtly calling out his teammates or the coaching staff, or both. Either way, the effort to become like the Patriots probably includes adopting a media strategy that doesn’t entail the quarterback subtly criticizing the other players or the coaches.[/quote]


This guy simply can't shut the fuck up. Can we get rid of him already?

Re: Next years QB
 

How many places are you going to type this we get it you don't like him.

Re: Next years QB
 

^ Yeah -- if RGIII was really going to tear a page out of Brady's notebook, he'd let his wife criticize his teammates.

C'mon -- I don't think it makes sense to fault RGIII for saying that he'd like to see the team emulate aspects of the Patriots' approach. Whom among us wouldn't like to see that?

Re: Next years QB
 

Florio digging as usual. I don't see anything wrong with what he said at all.

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=NYCskinfan82;1111314]How many places are you going to type this we get it you don't like him.[/quote]


Sorry. Didn't realize I was having a herp derp moment posting to the same article in different threads.



THAT said, I don't hate Griffin. I want Griffin to do well with us. However, the passive-aggressive shots are annoying. Is Florio making a big deal out of it or digging? Maybe? Griffin is just poor at expressing things and he puts himself in a bad situation. This isn't the first time he's done this so he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt here.

"Tom is great and he differed his wisdom until after he's retired. The Patriots are a great organization and handled themselves professionally during our scrimmage."


He needs to be taking a note out of Bill Belichick's page.

Re: Next years QB
 

Maybe he was just making an honest observation??

I don't know why everything has to have a hidden meaning.

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=calia;1111272]Honestly, this article made me feel better about heading into the OTAs, training camp, and the season: [URL="http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000486561/article/robert-griffin-iii-eagerly-preparing-for-vital-season-with-redskins"]Robert Griffin III eagerly preparing for vital season with Redskins - NFL.com[/URL]

I really hope it comes together for RGIII.[/quote]

He irritates the shit out of me with his senseless inspirational whostruckjohn. But he's a Washington Redskin, so hell yeah I'm pulling for him.

Re: Next years QB
 

.....Hell Yeah, I'm pulling for him!

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=Mattyk;1111318]Maybe he was just making an honest observation??

I don't know why everything has to have a hidden meaning.[/quote]

Dude -- [I]everything[/I] has a hidden meaning. Why, even my message about hidden meanings has a hidden meaning!

[COLOR="White"]... and here it is![/COLOR]

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=Schneed10;1111321]He irritates the shit out of me with his senseless inspirational whostruckjohn. But he's a Washington Redskin, so hell yeah I'm pulling for him.[/quote]

I think alot of it is because he is insecure.

Re: Next years QB
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;1111096]For RGIII, he has to transition from an entirely different way of playing the game and adapt his considerable talent to a style of play he has not only never mastered but has never really learned. [I]IF[/I] he can dedicate himself to learning to be different from the QB he has always been, accept his NFL coaches coaching and finally put behind him all the "He's fine, his mechanics are good" enabling he gets from Tedford and Bryles, then [I]maybe[/I], maybe he gets his deep ball mojo back and his low turnover/sack ratio that he had back in college (look at his TD/INT ratio in college - it was insane. Yes, I know, it was a spread offense and, for the spread offense, QB's usually have very good TD/INT ratios). It is all on him - as others have said - to dedicate himself to the film room, listen to the coaches, and accept that he has to walk through an NFL offense before he run it. ---- If he can do all that, his ceiling - even in year four (the guy [I]just[/I] turned 25 in February!) - is simply much, much higher than Kirk's.

For KC, he has to figure out how to stop throwing picks. He needs to change something in how he views the field, works his progressions, or makes his decisions. My problem is that, unlike RGIII's flaws, I just don't know that there is anything that coaching can do to change KC's basic inability to consistently avoid picks. Sure, Gruden dumbed down the offense for KC but KC's constant turnovers completely stymied Gruden:

[url=http://fansided.com/2014/10/16/jay-gruden-doesnt-know-kirk-cousins-throws-interceptions/]Jay Gruden Can't Explain Kirk Cousins' Interceptions[/url]

So, on one hand you have a QB currently incapable of running a pro offense and who has clearly identifiable flaws that may be fixable with solid coaching and a player dedicated to change - a trait the player has not readily demonstrated.

On the other, you have a QB who has a higher floor but is also deeply flawed. Further, it's not even clear that there is a path to fixing his flaws because he has been making the same mistakes throughout his collegiate and professional career and there is no clear, identifiable teaching/coaching point to correct them.

Quite frankly, as much as I truly hope Griffin can get it together and The Guy - I just don't know if he ever will be able to do so. As for KC, I just don't see him ever losing his knack for throwing untimely interceptions - it's just part of who he is.[/QUOTE]

If our new look defense can make an impact in games and we continue to have success in the running game, a lot will be taken off the shoulders of our young QBs. I don't know if this will be enough to help RG3 or Cousins, but even if we're looking ahead to 2016, we need to have a better overall team if we are to draft a QB then.

Re: Next years QB
 

RGIII is still on our team. I will actively root for him to get better until he is gone or we have a better option. I don't get the hate. If RG gets better our win total goes up pretty simple math.

Re: Next years QB
 

If Robert could take a moment away from thinking about how he would run the team and just concern himself with learning to do his own damn job, then he and the Redskins might get somewhere. Robert has already been told this by Jay Gruden, yet he still can't seem to understand that his attempts to be a team leader are futile unless he can learn to play his own position well enough for the Skins to win.

He seems to have this oblivious, self-aggrandizing attitude that he is leading his team when, in reality, he is hanging on to his job by a slender thread. I doubt that he can change his mindset while he's still here because his view of his role with the Redskins and his behavior patterns here have been well-established and reinforced. He may need to be slapped in the face by the reality of being permanently benched and then traded before he realizes the need to drop the bullshit and focus exclusively on improving his skills as a QB.

In short, performance talks and bullshit walks.

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1111328]If Robert could take a moment away from thinking about how he would run the team and just concern himself with learning to do his own damn job, then he and the Redskins might get somewhere. Robert has already been told this by Jay Gruden, yet he still can't seem to understand that his attempts to be a team leader are futile unless he can learn to play his own position well enough for the Skins to win.

He seems to have this oblivious, self-aggrandizing attitude that he is leading his team when, in reality, he is hanging on to his job by a slender thread. I doubt that he can change his mindset while he's still here because his view of his role with the Redskins and his behavior patterns here have been well-established and reinforced. He may need to be slapped in the face by the reality of being permanently benched and then traded before he realizes the need to drop the bullshit and focus exclusively on improving his skills as a QB.

In short, performance talks and bullshit walks.[/quote]

And you know this because you are with him every day at Redskins park not just dissecting his random interviews.

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=mredskins;1111329]And you know this because you are with him every day at Redskins park not just dissecting his random interviews.[/quote]


Whether or not I'm right about him, we're all going to find out if he can play QB for Jay Gruden's team soon enough. The time for talk is past. He must prove it on the field this year or he'll be gone. You can believe me on that much, at least.

Re: Next years QB
 

Of course he needs to prove it on the field, until then all we have is talk, to talk about.

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=mredskins;1111327]RGIII is still on our team. I will actively root for him to get better until he is gone or we have a better option. I don't get the hate. If RG gets better our win total goes up pretty simple math.[/quote]

Yep. I'm like many who are pessimistic on his chances with the Skins. But he's a Redskin and so I'm pulling for him like everyone else.

It needs to be said around here from time to time, you can have a conflict between your head and your heart. What you want to happen and what you think will happen can be two completely different things that can coexist.

He's our guy until he's not.

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1111330]Whether or not I'm right about him, we're all going to find out if he can play QB for Jay Gruden's team soon enough. The time for talk is past. He must prove it on the field this year or he'll be gone. You can believe me on that much, at least.[/quote]
I think Jay's seat is just as hot as Robert's to be honest. McLovn is icthing to bring in his own coaching staff.

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=mredskins;1111333]I think Jay's seat is just as hot as Robert's to be honest. McLovn is icthing to bring in his own coaching staff.[/quote]

Did you just try to read SM's mind? That seems like something I might do.

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=mredskins;1111327]RGIII is still on our team. I will actively root for him to get better until he is gone or we have a better option. I don't get the hate. If RG gets better our win total goes up pretty simple math.[/quote]

Agree, I really think a lot of people miss VC. We will never get better until we have a plan, we finally have a plan.

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=mredskins;1111327]RGIII is still on our team. I will actively root for him to get better until he is gone or we have a better option. I don't get the hate. If RG gets better our win total goes up pretty simple math.[/quote]Flying under the radar is the addition of Matt Cavanaugh as QB coach and (to a lesser extent but still important to the overall offense) Bill Callahan. I don't think people realize how great of a competitive disadvantage the team faced because of the holes in the coaching staff.

I think [I][B]all[/B][/I] the QBs are gonna benefit from the changes to the staff and Griff especially because he had the most to learn about playing in timing rhythm passing game.

I hang my hat on those coaches changes in addition to Scott building a better team as reason the QB play, passing game, offense and team will be better this year.

Re: Next years QB
 

I haven't seen or heard this scenario anywhere, but what if we trade Griffin to Cleveland and move back in the draft? I don't hate griffin...so this isn't some sort of wishful thinking. Just a scenario that popped in my head a minute ago. griffin for a first and a second rounder? Instead of them trading up to get mariota they get griffin and we get picks.

Re: Next years QB
 

[url=http://www.csnwashington.com/redskinsblog/report-redskins-may-be-inclined-pick-rg3s-contract-option]Report: Redskins may be inclined to pick up RG3's contract option | Comcast SportsNet Washington[/url]

Re: Next years QB
 

Interesting. Thank you, sir.

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=mredskins;1111327]RGIII is still on our team. I will actively root for him to get better until he is gone or we have a better option. I don't get the hate. If RG gets better our win total goes up pretty simple math.[/quote]

.....Totally

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=SirLK26;1111432][URL="http://www.csnwashington.com/redskinsblog/report-redskins-may-be-inclined-pick-rg3s-contract-option"]Report: Redskins may be inclined to pick up RG3's contract option | Comcast SportsNet Washington[/URL][/quote]

If this is true then it's just not smart. Not smart at all. I would wait to see if he proves himself in 2015. Right now he's a bottom tier starter that is sort of competing for his job. On top of that the head coach would probably prefer to cut him. The smart thing to do is let the QB situation play itself out.

Re: Next years QB
 

[quote=SirLK26;1111432][url=http://www.csnwashington.com/redskinsblog/report-redskins-may-be-inclined-pick-rg3s-contract-option]Report: Redskins may be inclined to pick up RG3's contract option | Comcast SportsNet Washington[/url][/quote]



:laughing2



They'll be a bunch of clowns if they do pick up that tab next year for 16 mil. Especially one that's has an injury guarantee to it.

Re: Next years QB
 

Remember guys that picking up the option only guarantees the contract AGAINST INJURY. If we determine that this year his performance sucks then we can still cut him before 2016 without any cap consequences in 2016. This option does not fully guarantee his salary.

Or if he plays average this year, instead of cutting him we could say RG3 we're not going to pay you $16M in 2016, but we'll give you a 4 year deal worth the average NFL QB pay rate and see how the negotiation goes.

Picking up the option is the wise thing, it does not keep us on the hook for cutting bait if he sucks.