Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1111384]There are more urgent needs than WR - OL, OLB, S, DL, and TE.[/quote]

Oh, so your building for next year's immediate needs? I thought we were committed to a long term build rather than simply pissing on the fire closest to our feet.

[quote=Irrefutable;1111384]Next year RGIII, and Knighton either gets $$$$ or are cut/traded. [B][B]The cap problems continue[/B][/B].[/quote]

Name one player we have cut or failed to obtain based on mismanagement of the cap (as opposed to the penalty levied by the NFL).

If you're concerned about [I]next year's[/I] cap, BTW, Cooper makes more sense b/c we can clear a ton of cap space by cutting DJax or Garcon and still have a solid starting WR tandem.


Again, if any of the OLB pass-rushers were seen as guaranteed "high floor" guys, sure, you take one of them over Cooper. None are. Each has flaws. As I have said before, [I]at 5[/I], I would rather pick the player with the best chance at success at this level as opposed to a guy who may be great but may bust.

Let me ask you this, if instead of Cooper and Fowler/Beasley/Ray/Gregory, the choice were Art Monk or Brian Orakpo, who do you pick?

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1111385]Oh, so your building for next year's immediate needs? I thought we were committed to a long term build rather than simply pissing on the fire closest to our feet.



Name one player we have cut or failed to obtain based on mismanagement of the cap (as opposed to the penalty levied by the NFL).

If you're concerned about [I]next year's[/I] cap, BTW, Cooper makes more sense b/c we can clear a ton of cap space by cutting DJax or Garcon and still have a solid starting WR tandem.


Again, if any of the OLB pass-rushers were seen as guaranteed "high floor" guys, sure, you take one of them over Cooper. None are. Each has flaws. As I have said before, [I]at 5[/I], I would rather pick the player with the best chance at success at this level as opposed to a guy who may be great but may bust.

Let me ask you this, if instead of Cooper and Fowler/Beasley/Ray/Gregory, the choice were Art Monk or Brian Orakpo, who do you pick?[/quote]


None, I take Timmy Smith. Duh!!!

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

But in all seriousness, if Cooper is there at 5 and Leonard Williams isn't, I don't see how you don't take him. Like Joe said, safest pick and to all that say you can find a WR anywhere, you can find any position anywhere. So with that in mind, let's all welcome Amari Cooper to the Washington Redskins with class and style.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

i havent followed the draft prospects too close but I really like how it is playing out.

I see 4 premium players - williams, winston, fowler, marriota.

If any one of these players are available at 5, i would take them.

I know I spoke harshly about winston's perceived character before but i have changed my tune.

i really hope one of the 4 drops to us. if not, we have a ton of options and god forbid we have to pick beasley or shelton or hart or some other top talent.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=over the mountain;1111398]i havent followed the draft prospects too close but I really like how it is playing out.

I see 4 premium players - williams, winston, fowler, marriota.

If any one of these players are available at 5, i would take them.

I know I spoke harshly about winston's perceived character before but i have changed my tune.

i really hope one of the 4 drops to us. if not, we have a ton of options and god forbid we have to pick beasley or shelton or hart or some other top talent.[/quote]

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/22/jimbo-fisher-says-free-crab-legs-for-jameis-winston-was-isolated-incident/]Jimbo Fisher says free crab legs for Jameis Winston was isolated incident | ProFootballTalk[/url]

he didnt steal them, he was just entitled to free crab legs

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=Hog1;1111126]Straight up BPA....He apparently lives by it.
Live it.....Know it....Love it......[/quote]

He did say that need factors into his BPA equations.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

I keep hearing mixed reviews on Fowler:

According to some, a premium athlete at the position.

According to others, lacks explosion, solid all around but not a premium pass-rusher who will take time to develop into that role - if he does at all.

If there is something I am missing on the guy, I am happy to hear it. I agree that a pass-rushing OLB is a bigger immediate need than WR (duh!), but I am not seeing the "specialness" that puts Fowler on the level of Williams or Cooper.

[For those suggesting we bypass Cooper: Think about it, [I]unless[/I] Fowler/Beasley/Ray/Gregory are on the same talent level as Cooper/Williams, then folks are saying that we should [I][B]knowingly take a lesser talent[/B][/I] - just b/c no [I]immediate[/I] need exists for the clearly superior talent. Sorry, I just don't see that as a blueprint for long-term success].

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=Chico23231;1111399][url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/22/jimbo-fisher-says-free-crab-legs-for-jameis-winston-was-isolated-incident/]Jimbo Fisher says free crab legs for Jameis Winston was isolated incident | ProFootballTalk[/url]

he didnt steal them, he was just entitled to free crab legs[/quote]

Winston is kinda dumb. Free crab legs bc you are a Florida State athlete = benefits = ban hammer.

Jimbo of course says isolated incident, our athletes have never receive benefits.

Joe - re Fowler, i thought consensus was that Fowler was the premiere pass rusher with an explosive first step. He was in tier 1 for pass rushers with the Shane ray and Gregories of the world in the 2nd tier.

I saw Cooper play a few times, consistent, polished, good job tracking the ball in the air and adjusting his body to make the catch.

talking pundits say Hart has the height (6'2'), arm length, hand size, speed and vertical to be the next big game, go up and get it receiver .. with pop the top speed.

cooper isnt far behind, 6'0', bigger hands but isnt as much of an athlete as hart. hart being a physical specimen of sorts.


what i love, we cant really go wrong unless we trade back so far we end up with a bunch of B/C grade players.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1111404]I keep hearing mixed reviews on Fowler:

According to some, a premium athlete at the position.

According to others, lacks explosion, solid all around but not a premium pass-rusher who will take time to develop into that role - if he does at all.

If there is something I am missing on the guy, I am happy to hear it. I agree that a pass-rushing OLB is a bigger immediate need than WR (duh!), but I am not seeing the "specialness" that puts Fowler on the level of Williams or Cooper.

[For those suggesting we bypass Cooper: Think about it, [I]unless[/I] Fowler/Beasley/Ray/Gregory are on the same talent level as Cooper/Williams, then folks are saying that we should [I][B]knowingly take a lesser talent[/B][/I] - just b/c no [I]immediate[/I] need exists for the clearly superior talent. Sorry, I just don't see that as a blueprint for long-term success].[/quote]

What separates him from others is size, strength, and nastiness at the point of attack. Where you worry about guys like Beasley and Shane Ray is their ability to set the edge against the run game. Athletic for sure, but can they hold the point of attack and get off blocks. If they're not strong enough to hold the point of attack then the ILBs get sealed off in the wash and it's a good shot at a 5 yard gain at minimum on most runs to their side.

Fowler definitely will not have that problem. He's by far the strongest of the edge rushers available. He seats and digs in.

18 sack guy? Maybe never. A Ryan Kerrigan clone with maybe a bit more upside? Yes.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1111404][For those suggesting we bypass Cooper: Think about it, [I]unless[/I] Fowler/Beasley/Ray/Gregory are on the same talent level as Cooper/Williams, then folks are saying that we should [I][B]knowingly take a lesser talent[/B][/I] - just b/c no [I]immediate[/I] need exists for the clearly superior talent. Sorry, I just don't see that as a blueprint for long-term success].[/quote]

You're beating that Cooper drum so hard it's about to make my ears bleed. There is absolutely no guarantee that he will become a better NFL player than the other players you named. In the end, drafting is still a SWAG.

Wasn't J.J. Watt drafted 11th, or something like that? Ten NFL GM's who are paid to draft the right player in the 1st Round passed on him because they thought they were drafting players who would be better than him in the NFL. They were wrong.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1111414]You're beating that Cooper drum so hard it's about to make my ears bleed. There is absolutely no guarantee that he will become a better NFL player than the other players you named.
[/quote]You're right.

It should go without saying that of course there aren't any guarantees when it comes to the draft.

But that's true for any prospect.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1111404]I keep hearing mixed reviews on Fowler..[/quote]There will be mixed reviews about every prospect. They all have their pros and cons. Even for evaluators that [I][B]agree[/B][/I] on a players attributes they might have their own preferences for which attribute is more important.
Size or speed, production or potential, "pro-readiness" vs physical skillset, scheme vs production etc....

Personally for me I always keep in mind that if any prospects make it in the NFL players they have to become better players then they were in the college and for me physical skill set (which we try to judge as arm chair GMs) in addition to coach ability/mental make-up (which we can't judge and even NFL teams struggle to judge) go a long way in decision making.

When it comes to pass rushers I like the bigger body type guys in general. It drives me nut to see a RB stone a pass rusher and that [I]should[/I] happen less often with a big body pass rusher.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=Schneed10;1111410]What separates him from others is size, strength, and nastiness at the point of attack. Where you worry about guys like Beasley and Shane Ray is their ability to set the edge against the run game. Athletic for sure, but can they hold the point of attack and get off blocks. If they're not strong enough to hold the point of attack then the ILBs get sealed off in the wash and it's a good shot at a 5 yard gain at minimum on most runs to their side.

Fowler definitely will not have that problem. He's by far the strongest of the edge rushers available. He seats and digs in.

18 sack guy? Maybe never. A Ryan Kerrigan clone with maybe a bit more upside? Yes.[/quote]

I know bench press doesn't really gauge game strength, but Beasley did have more reps than Fowler but I do understand that.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=30gut;1111419]You're right.

It should go without saying that of course there aren't any guarantees when it comes to the draft.

But that's true for any prospect.[/quote]

Guarantees? No but you can make the argument for the "safer" bet, or the higher floor player.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1111425]Guarantees? No but you can make the argument for the "safer" bet, or the higher floor player.[/quote]I've always considered 'safer' as a throw away claim when a draftnik likes a prospect.

My view of the draft is the best that can be achieved is the proper evaluation of players based on production and skillset then ranked against the other prospects based on their production and skillset.

To me all the prediction stuff is bunk, people are unpredictable.

Evaluate. Rank. Decide.

Then...cheer or cry but always hope.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=30gut;1111428]I've always considered 'safer' as a throw away claim when a draftnik likes a prospect.

My view of the draft is the best that can be achieved is the proper evaluation of players based on production and skillset then ranked against the other prospects based on their production and skillset.

To me all the prediction stuff is bunk, people are unpredictable.

Evaluate. Rank. Decide.

Then...cheer or cry but always hope.[/quote]


To me I have liked Cooper since his freshman year. Beasley just came outta no where once the combine happened. He wasn't a potential top 5 pick prior to that. To me there are less flaws with Cooper than the top edge rushers and we can always get another in the 2nd or 3rd round, because I am not ready to give up on Trent Murphy like some are

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1111424]I know bench press doesn't really gauge game strength, but Beasley did have more reps than Fowler but I do understand that.[/quote]

Yeah that means jack shit. You don't anchor against a run block with your pecs, you do it with your entire body, most of all your ass, thighs and core.

Squat would be a better measure.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=Schneed10;1111434]Yeah that means jack shit. You don't anchor against a run block with your pecs, you do it with your entire body, most of all your ass, thighs and core.

Squat would be a better measure.[/quote]

I can't find it quickly but I'm fairly certain I heard McLovin talking about how he gauges the strength of a player in one of his earlier interviews after being named the GM.

He looks at how they perform against other players on film; who gets pushed around versus who does the pushing around.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1111435]I can't find it quickly but I'm fairly certain I heard McLovin talking about how he gauges the strength of a player in one of his earlier interviews after being named the GM.

He looks at how they perform against other players on film; who gets pushed around versus who does the pushing around.[/quote]

You mean actual football actions to gauge how a player will fair at the NFL level. What means of madness is this. Is the guy's name known throughout? That's the way to tell. Is somebody demanding a king's ransom to get him? Pay up and draft him now. Forget the witchcraft of film and study.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

I think Fowler would be a great choice. I just want the best available on defense imo. Best pure talent ready to ball. Whoever falls they like.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=30gut;1111428]I've always considered 'safer' as a throw away claim when a draftnik likes a prospect.

My view of the draft is the best that can be achieved is the[B] proper evaluation of players based on production and skillset [/B]then ranked against the other prospects based on their production and skillset.

To me all the prediction stuff is bunk, people are unpredictable.

[B]Evaluate. Rank. Decide. [/B]

Then...cheer or cry but always hope.[/quote]

Well, that's my point on Cooper - "based on [his] production and skillset ... ranked against the other prospects based on their production and skillset" Cooper is in a different tier of talent than the OLB's available. You can quantify it however you want - safe pick, high floor, higher ranked, etc. - bottom line is some guys "production and skillset" are clearly superior to others. The general consensus is that Cooper and Williams are the highest ranked non-QB's and that, "based on [their] production and skillset," all the OLB's are flawed in one way or another.

The consistent report on Cooper's "production and skillset" is that, when scouts watch his college tape, he demonstrates the skills of a polished three year pro with no identifiable weaknesses and his production has been excellent.

[quote=30gut;1111428]Then...cheer or cry but always hope.[/quote]

Absolutely. As I have said, in Scot I trust. He's the man with the plan and has been scouting these guys all year for his own consultant's business. My faith in him at this particular point is pretty much at the "blinded by burgundy and gold" level.

I think Cooper is a solid pick and to bypass him only b/c he does not fit an [I]immediate[/I] need is short sighted. McC, however, makes the big bucks for good reason and, if he thinks Fowler (Beasley/Ray/Gregory/??) is the man ... I am all good with that.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1111414]You're beating that Cooper drum so hard it's about to make my ears bleed. There is absolutely no guarantee that he will become a better NFL player than the other players you named. In the end, drafting is still a SWAG.

Wasn't J.J. Watt drafted 11th, or something like that? Ten NFL GM's who are paid to draft the right player in the 1st Round passed on him because they thought they were drafting players who would be better than him in the NFL. They were wrong.[/quote]

Of course it's all a crapshoot. All the more reason to pick the guy you believe to be the best available player. Sure, there are no guarantees but that doesn't mean you ignore reality either. If McC has Fowler ranked higher than or in the same tier as Cooper - great. A clear top tier guy in an area of need - no brainer.

My [I]only [/I] point with Cooper is that every evaluation I have seen on him says there are no obvious flaws in his game, that he has terrific measurable, that his college production was excellent, he's a great character guy, and that his comparables in the NFL are all pro-bowl caliber players (Tory Holt and AJ Green are the names most often mentioned). Given those factors, you shouldn't bypass him - b/c he doesn't fill an area of immediate need - to select players who do not have those factors working for them and, thus, are not in his talent tier. None of the top four OLB's have [I]all[/I] those factors working in their favor and each has a pretty glaring hole (Fowler-production, Ray/Beasley - measurables, Gregory - character).

As to JJ Watt. Sure - he was the 11th picked. Have you looked at who else was picked in the top 10 that year? Here they are (in order):

Cam Newton (Offensive Rookie of the year, 2 pro bowls)
Von Miller (3 x pro bowl, 3 x all pro)
Marcell Dareus (2 x pro bowl, 1 x all pro)
A.J. Green (4 x pro bowl, 1 x all pro)
Patrick Peterson (4 x pro bowl, 2 x all pro)
Julio Jones (2 x pro bowl)
Aldon Smith (1 x pro bowl, 1 x all pro)
Jake Locker
Tyron Smith (2 x pro bowl, 2 x all pro)
Blaine Gabbert

Other than Locker & Gabbert, that is not a shoddy bunch - pro bowlers (and all pros) all through the list. Unlike this year, it was a deep draft all through the top 10 BUT the two teams (Tenn & Jax) that bypassed Watt and drafted for need got burned. I imagine everybody else on that list is pretty pleased with their pick (okay, maybe SF would like to switch it out).

[I][EDIT: added pro bowl/all pro awards. Yes, JJ Watt has out performed them all to date (3 PB, 3 AP, 2 x Def. Player of the year; MVP Runner-up 2014). At the same time, if we get someone the equivalent to any of the other position players by going BPA regardless of immediate need, I will be very happy and not complain that someone else struck gold by picking this year's JJ Watt.][/I]

As I said, if you forego a guy you believe to be the better talent because he does not fill an immediate need, than you are consciously choosing players of lesser talent and that just is not a good plan for a long term build.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1111435]I can't find it quickly but I'm fairly certain I heard McLovin talking about how he gauges the strength of a player in one of his earlier interviews after being named the GM.

[B]He looks at how they perform against other players on film; who gets pushed around versus who does the pushing around[/B].[/quote]

... and, again, from the film I have seen (which isn't a lot admittedly), Fowler seems to get pushed around a lot. Maybe I am just watching the wrong film.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1111441]... and, again, from the film I have seen (which isn't a lot admittedly), Fowler seems to get pushed around a lot. Maybe I am just watching the wrong film.[/quote]

He did say himself that La'el Collins manhandled him when they played

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

La'el has got our next RT written all over him. That's only in case of trade back, but if we do, that's who I want.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

Scot McC on Scot McC:

[quote]“Everybody says, ‘Well you need this, this, this and this,’ which I understand,” he said. “You know, a lot of times in pro free agency, you can address those needs a little bit, but I learned from Ron Wolf early on, I learned from Ted Thompson early on, I learned from John Schneider, you can never have enough good football players on your team. If you keep adding that, you’re going to have your couple of two, three superstars that are going come out and become stars.”[/quote]

[url=http://www.csnwashington.com/redskinsblog/mccloughans-mentor-adamant-about-not-drafting-need]McCloughan's mentor 'adamant' about not drafting for need | Comcast SportsNet Washington[/url]

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

My feeling is that if we come up and the BPA is a guy that clearly isn't a need...like WR in my opinion...then we aggressively pursue a trade-back. Get value for our pick equivalent to picking said BPA. If we can't get an acceptable trade-back then roll BPA and know that rolling BPA in the long run should give you a stud team.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=FRPLG;1111462]My feeling is that if we come up and the BPA is a guy that clearly isn't a need...like WR in my opinion...then we aggressively pursue a trade-back. Get value for our pick equivalent to picking said BPA. If we can't get an acceptable trade-back then roll BPA and know that rolling BPA in the long run should give you a stud team.[/quote]

Agree 100%.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1111463]Agree 100%.[/quote]

Now you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. If your boy is truly a Top 5 prospect and probably the BPA at #5, don't you want SM to draft him in accordance with your draft philosophy? If he trades down because WR isn't a position of need then he is essentially drafting for need when he picks the OT. N'est ce pas?

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1111464]Now you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. If your boy is truly a Top 5 prospect and probably the BPA at #5, don't you want SM to draft him in accordance with your draft philosophy? If he trades down because WR isn't a position of need then he is essentially drafting for need when he picks the OT. N'est ce pas?[/quote]

Nope, not even close. If we are stuck at 5 (which, given the thread's title, was my assumption), we pick BPA - which to will likely be Cooper, if it's Williams or Williams/Cooper, pick Williams b/c he is fills the more immediate need.

[I]If[/I] (1) Williams is gone, [B]and[/B] (2) someone gives us "value for our pick equivalent to picking" Cooper, [I]then[/I] a trade is just as good as a BPA pick because we don't have an [I]immediate[/I] need at WR. At the same time, you don't take just any trade out of the spot simply b/c your not sold on the guys at your immediate need position.

It's all very subjective but - very simply - don't trade out of a high value spot just to make a trade [I]and,[/I] if you can't make the trade you want, don't pick a lesser value guy when you think a better player is still on the board.

BPA or what you judge the BPA's value to be. Always. Every day.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

... and to be clear (which I think I already have been), Cooper is not "my boy." I am not pulling for them to draft him. From everything I have read, and for all the reasons I have said in my various posts, however, he seems to me to be the likely, logical BPA choice at 5 under a "no trade down" scenario.

I have only "beaten his drum" b/c so many seem to think that, even if he is the clear BPA at the position we should not pick him simply b/c he doesn't satisfy an immediate need. I think that is a dumb-ass, short-sighted reason for a team passing on a player that they believe to be the most talented guy on the board. [Again, not saying that Scot McC believes that b/c I have no idea who he has rated as what. I am only arguing the underlying principle.]

If you think Fowler or someone else, based on "production and skill set" - or whatever else you want to use to evaluate talent, is the talent level equivalent of Cooper, fine. To me, that's a perfectly good reason for going with someone other than Cooper. I just have yet to hear anyone make a strong case for Fowler over Cooper based on talent only. Schneed's analysis at least made some rational sense but, despite his measurables, Fowler's actual on-field production doesn't seem to match up.

Like I said, the actual tape I saw of Fowler seemed to show him getting pushed around a lot - despite his size and strength. To me, that's a problem. If in actual game situations, he can't [I]consistently[/I] dominate against college players given his advantage in measurables, that does not bode well when he has to take his game to the pro level.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

Why all the talk of Fowler? Beasley is the best edge rusher in this class. His run defense is a big weakness, but we have Murphy to rotate in on rushing downs while Beasley develops. Von Miller is close to the same height and weight, so Beasley's size won't stop him from becoming a good run defender. Does he have talent to develop in that area? I don't know, but even if he doesn't, I would rather have a great pass rusher and poor-to-mediocre run defender in Beasley than a great receiver in Cooper or White.

Let me ask this to emphasize the value of pass rushers versus receivers: how many receivers in the league would you be willing to trade Kerrigan for?

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=SirLK26;1111468]Why all the talk of Fowler? Beasley is the best edge rusher in this class. His run defense is a big weakness, but we have Murphy to rotate in on rushing downs while Beasley develops. Von Miller is close to the same height and weight, so Beasley's size won't stop him from becoming a good run defender. Does he have talent to develop in that area? I don't know, but even if he doesn't, I would rather have a great pass rusher and poor-to-mediocre run defender in Beasley than a great receiver in Cooper or White.

Let me ask this to emphasize the value of pass rushers versus receivers: how many receivers in the league would you be willing to trade Kerrigan for?[/quote]

To answer your question, 10 at least.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=SirLK26;1111468]Why all the talk of Fowler? Beasley is the best edge rusher in this class. His run defense is a big weakness, but we have Murphy to rotate in on rushing downs while Beasley develops. Von Miller is close to the same height and weight, so Beasley's size won't stop him from becoming a good run defender. Does he have talent to develop in that area? I don't know, but even if he doesn't, I would rather have a great pass rusher and poor-to-mediocre run defender in Beasley than a great receiver in Cooper or White.

Let me ask this to emphasize the value of pass rushers versus receivers: how many receivers in the league would you be willing to trade Kerrigan for?[/quote]

Also, I would rather have a great WR than a LB who can be run on at will

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1111465]Nope, not even close. If we are stuck at 5 (which, given the thread's title, was my assumption), we pick BPA - which to will likely be Cooper, if it's Williams or Williams/Cooper, pick Williams b/c he is fills the more immediate need.

[I]If[/I] (1) Williams is gone, [B]and[/B] (2) someone gives us "value for our pick equivalent to picking" Cooper, [I]then[/I] a trade is just as good as a BPA pick because we don't have an [I]immediate[/I] need at WR. At the same time, you don't take just any trade out of the spot simply b/c your not sold on the guys at your immediate need position.

It's all very subjective but - very simply - don't trade out of a high value spot just to make a trade [I]and,[/I] if you can't make the trade you want, don't pick a lesser value guy when you think a better player is still on the board.

BPA or what you judge the BPA's value to be. Always. Every day.[/quote]


Agree 100%

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

He's your boy.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

I would trade Kerrigan for AJ Green (again, the current player to whom most talent evaluators compare Cooper) straight up. Tomorrow. Love Kerrigan, but AJ Green is a game changer in a way Kerrigan just is not.

... and to be clear, if Cinci called and said "Kerrigan for Green", you would turn them down cold?

I only used Fowler as he seems to be the most highly rated OLB. As to Beasley, if you believe he is the talent equivalent of Cooper - fine. Again, there has been much concern expressed about Beasley strength, if you believe it is not to a concern, okay.

If the choice is Beasley v. Cooper, which do you think has the greater chance at being a successful pro? Don't give me the "it's anybody's guess" "I'm not a talent evaluator" "I can't tell the future" "you can't compare the two" blah blah blah. It's a simple question, and I am not even asking your rationale. I just want your armchair, Monday morning, fan boy GM call: In 10 years, who do you think people are more likely to say was the better player?

As a follow-up, same "No BS" caveats, and out of the likely top 5 or 6 players: In 10 years, who do you think people are likely to say was a better player than Cooper?

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1111473]He's your boy.[/quote]

No. He really is not. I am full-on "In Scotty McC" we trust mode. Whoever he picks is my guy.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1111470]To answer your question, 10 at least.[/quote]

Not surprised, coming from you.

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1111471]Also, I would rather have a great WR than a LB who can be run on at will[/quote]

Well yeah, when you frame it like that it sounds bad. But he wouldn't be expected to play rushing downs as a rookie, and he has the ability to make a huge impact as a pass rusher right away.

Re: With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...
 

[quote=SirLK26;1111477]Not surprised, coming from you.



Well yeah, when you frame it like that it sounds bad. But he wouldn't be expected to play rushing downs as a rookie, and he has the ability to make a huge impact as a pass rusher right away.[/quote]

Coming from me? What does that mean?

Calvin Johnson
Antonio Brown
Dez Bryant
Jordy Nelson
Julio Jones
Demaryius Thomas
DeSean Jackon (If he didn't already play for us)
Odell Beckham Jr. (A rookie, yes but all signs point to game changing elite WR in the making)
Alshon Jeffery
T.Y. Hilton (A push, but based of his first 2 seasons I could see the argument made)


And Randall Cobb and Emmanuel Sanders are pushes
Brandon Marshall, Andre Johnson, and Steve Smith if they were younger