Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1118694]I believe those dolts on "The Man Cave" brought up race during hour 2 this morning.

[url=http://www.espn980.com/the-man-cave/]The Man Cave | ESPN 980[/url]

The podcast is there. I had to skip around that segment because most of it hurts my head. I think I may have listened to about 3 mins of that entire thing. I'm pissed you guys actually made my curiosity research that shit.. :laughing-[/quote]

What I heard there was "is race a factor?" And 3 of 4 fans called in to say basically no. Then Mike Jones also added "no"

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1118695]What I heard there was "is race a factor?" And 3 of 4 fans called in to say basically no. Then Mike Jones also added "no"[/quote]

I thought you were going back to your cave???

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

I just listened to ten minutes of the man cave and now I want to jump out my window.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=RobH4413;1118698]I just listened to ten minutes of the man cave and now I want to jump out my window.[/quote]

Good thing caves have no windows.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;1118696]I thought you were going back to your cave???[/quote]

I'm in my mancave

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=SirLK26;1118684]Griffin ran read option plays last year. Please stop saying he won't run them, that is false.[/quote]

He hardly ever kept the ball even when there seemed to be nothing but green in front of him. He didn't seem into it.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1118685][url=http://www.sbnation.com/2015/9/1/9232961/robert-griffin-iii-washington-jay-gruden-dan-snyder-mike-shanahan-injury-concussion]A comprehensive history of how Washington ruined Robert Griffin III's body, mind and spirit - SBNation.com[/url]

This is a good read, but long. This might be the best article I have ever read on RG3's career with the Redskins, which now appears to be in retrospect. There are cool embedded GIF's of RG3's various injuries, and honestly, upon watching them again, were quite gruesome.

His future seemed so immense in 2012, but it was obvious that the knee injury, and concussions are most likely career-ending in the sense that he most likely will never, ever, be anything close to what he once was. Not even a shadow. I think his best bet is to get a fresh start somewhere else, as a backup where he can learn the fine points of the game, and perhaps some team will give him a shot again to start. I just think while only 25, his body has suffered terrible injuries and is no longer up to NFL duty...[/quote]

Got hurt on scrambles, which every QB has to do from time to time. Couldn't get out of bounds or slide, and thought it would be safer in the pocket. Boy was he wrong.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[QUOTE=SolidSnake84;1118689]You know a buddy and I were talking the other night about all of the coaches that have came and went in Washington, so let me ask you....

What is the benefit of being HC with all that is known about ownership, etc.. Is it solely the money? I mean i have a hard time believing that the job is attractive with all the dysfunction, etc, knowing that he doesn't have final say on who plays, etc...[/QUOTE]
Its been said many times. There are only 32 NFL head coaching jobs. 5-7 of those aren't opening up any time soon, ie Bellicheck, Carroll, Fox etc. So maybe 4-6 jobs open up a year, and they are fiercely competitive.

Sent from my S6 Edge

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1118704]Its been said many times. There are only 32 NFL head coaching jobs. 5-7 of those aren't opening up any time soon, ie Bellicheck, Carroll, Fox etc. So maybe 4-6 jobs open up a year, and they are fiercely competitive.

Sent from my S6 Edge[/quote]

Sorry i should have specified what is the advantage of being REDSKINS HC - with all that is known about ownership, etc.... How is it attractive to the candidate other than the money....

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[QUOTE=SolidSnake84;1118714]Sorry i should have specified what is the advantage of being REDSKINS HC - with all that is known about ownership, etc.... How is it attractive to the candidate other than the money....[/QUOTE]
It really doesn't change the answer. There are only a few HC spots ever open and if one is presented to you its not easy to turn it down. I also imagine Dans pretty good making the sale.

Sent from my S6 Edge

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Yeah there's 32 of these jobs in the world, kind of a high demand there.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Can we put to bed the nonsense of Snyder calling all the shots? If that were true Griffin wouldn't have been benched.

Like most owners he has his say and rightfully so. But he's not an out of control tyrant who controls everything or fires anyone who disagrees with him.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Mattyk;1118718]Can we put to bed the nonsense of Snyder calling all the shots? If that were true Griffin wouldn't have been benched.

Like most owners he has his say and rightfully so. But he's not an out of control tyrant who controls everything or fires anyone who disagrees with him.[/quote]


Who's to say he wasn't calling the QB shot up until McCloughan convinced him otherwise? I imagine he did have to get Dan on board, and probably will so to cut him.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

:doh:

Think I need to join Smoot in the cave for a while

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Shawn Springs on ESPN 980. Interesting prospective. Skins paid a.......dear price for Robert.
IF.......Robert and Kirk had been drafted in the 32nd and 33rd slot respectively, this change would have been made a long time ago without the blink of an eye.....
Damn! need Shawn to come back....

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Michael Wise and Brian Mitchell collectively leaked to Scott McC that RG3 was breeding and betting on Siamese fighting fish.
Thats why Griffin will be benched and released.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Mattyk;1118720]:doh:

Think I need to join Smoot in the cave for a while[/quote]


It was smoot that said Dan was making the QB call up until the past events this week, and made that same call last year as well. I mean, who else forced Jay to start Robert at the start of last season? It sure wasn't Jay's doing. Why is this some conspiracy theory? I agree with you for the most part though that Dan isn't some tyrant that fires everybody that disagrees with him. This QB issue up until this week isn't out of the realm of possibility though.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;1118728]It was smoot that said Dan was making the QB call up until the past events this week, and made that same call last year as well. I mean, who else forced Jay to start Robert at the start of last season? It sure wasn't Jay's doing. Why is this some conspiracy theory? I agree with you for the most part though that Dan isn't some tyrant that fires everybody that disagrees with him. This QB issue up until this week isn't out of the realm of possibility though.[/QUOTE]


I guess we have different thoughts on what calling all the shots means. Sure he has his say on things, but obviously his mind can be changed so he's really not controlling everything like some think. This isn't the first time Griffin had been benched, or any QB here.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1118714]Sorry i should have specified what is the advantage of being REDSKINS HC - with all that is known about ownership, etc.... How is it attractive to the candidate [B]other than the money[/B]....[/quote]

Money isn't everything but it's way ahead of whatever's in second place.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

I can only imagine if some of you owned the team. Coaches would be fired at halftime.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

A likely scenario was that when both Gruden and McLoughan were hired in each consecutive season, the message from the owner was to make it work with RG3 because of the investment made. At the end of last season there was no reason to anoint Cousins, no reason to anoint McCoy, so it made sense for Gruden and McLoughan to get on board. In fact they probably agreed that his raw talent made him the best of 3 not-so-great options.

They probably figured let's put our resources into Robert. So McLoughan tried to develop talent around him, and Jay committed to him by giving him starter's reps and positively supported him in the media.

But through the offseason Griffin didn't develop, despite the roster investments, and despite getting starter's reps.

At this point Gruden and McLoughan saw it wasn't working, went back to Snyder, and said listen man we have tried and tried. I drafted a lineman 5th overall, we hired a new offensive line coach who coached up Morgan Moses into a capable RT, Jay gave him all the learning opportunity in the offseason. I even gave him the $16M option guaranteed for injury. But you saw the Browns and Lions games, Robert still doesn't get it. Kirk does. And oh by the way, you saw how Robert still gets himself killed against Detroit, if he gets hurt for us we'll owe him $16M next season.

We have to switch.

What's Dan going to say to that? He probably was in favor of anointing Griffin as the starter. After last year there was no reason not to. But things change. No rational person thinks Griffin deserves to be starting after this offseason, preseason, and Kirk's supposed improvement in camp.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

It doesn't have to be some crazy conspiracy. Things just change, and people come around to changing their minds.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Schneed10;1118733]A likely scenario was that when both Gruden and McLoughan were hired in each consecutive season, the message from the owner was to make it work with RG3 because of the investment made. At the end of last season there was no reason to anoint Cousins, no reason to anoint McCoy, so it made sense for Gruden and McLoughan to get on board. In fact they probably agreed that his raw talent made him the best of 3 not-so-great options.

They probably figured let's put our resources into Robert. So McLoughan tried to develop talent around him, and Jay committed to him by giving him starter's reps and positively supported him in the media.

But through the offseason Griffin didn't develop, despite the roster investments, and despite getting starter's reps.

At this point Gruden and McLoughan saw it wasn't working, went back to Snyder, and said listen man we have tried and tried. I drafted a lineman 5th overall, we hired a new offensive line coach who coached up Morgan Moses into a capable RT, Jay gave him all the learning opportunity in the offseason. I even gave him the $16M option guaranteed for injury. But you saw the Browns and Lions games, Robert still doesn't get it. Kirk does. And oh by the way, you saw how Robert still gets himself killed against Detroit, if he gets hurt for us we'll owe him $16M next season.

We have to switch.

What's Dan going to say to that? He probably was in favor of anointing Griffin as the starter. After last year there was no reason not to. But things change. No rational person thinks Griffin deserves to be starting after this offseason, preseason, [B]and Kirk's supposed improvement in camp.[/B][/quote]

That is the real mystery here. Has he really jumped the learning curve or are they just so sick of Robert that anyone will do at this point who has not been in a Subway commercial.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Mattyk;1118730]I guess we have different thoughts on what calling all the shots means. Sure he has his say on things, but obviously his mind can be changed so he's really not controlling everything like some think. This isn't the first time Griffin had been benched, or any QB here.[/quote]


I agree with that totally.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Let's face it guys, the Redskins have been a desparate team for 2 decades. Desparate teams have to take gambles to get better. Functional teams like the Patriots do not. So they gambled in 2012, and we all thought it was worth it after the season, EVEN with RGiii's injury I would say, because they made it to the playoffs. But now that we have found out RGiii is made of glass, and can't make quick decisions to protect himself, the honeymoon is over. "He can't be a moble QB or he will get hurt" that's what everyone said. Then in the Detroit game he gets hurt FROM INSIDE the POCKET. So basically he just gets hurt. Heck, in the Jacksonville game last year he got hurt just running. Kirk is probably not the answer, but you have 52 other guys on this team that want to win now, and Kirk gives them a better chance to do that than RGiii. I'm and RGiii fan, but I guess I'm really and RGiii 2012 fan. IF they are not going to run read-option, then he is not the QB for them.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1118732]I can only imagine if some of you owned the team. Coaches would be fired at halftime.[/quote]

You know how many players would be cut during games?....rofl

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1118733]A likely scenario was that when both Gruden and McLoughan were hired in each consecutive season, the message from the owner was to make it work with RG3 because of the investment made. At the end of last season there was no reason to anoint Cousins, no reason to anoint McCoy, so it made sense for Gruden and McLoughan to get on board. In fact they probably agreed that his raw talent made him the best of 3 not-so-great options.



They probably figured let's put our resources into Robert. So McLoughan tried to develop talent around him, and Jay committed to him by giving him starter's reps and positively supported him in the media.



But through the offseason Griffin didn't develop, despite the roster investments, and despite getting starter's reps.



At this point Gruden and McLoughan saw it wasn't working, went back to Snyder, and said listen man we have tried and tried. I drafted a lineman 5th overall, we hired a new offensive line coach who coached up Morgan Moses into a capable RT, Jay gave him all the learning opportunity in the offseason. I even gave him the $16M option guaranteed for injury. But you saw the Browns and Lions games, Robert still doesn't get it. Kirk does. And oh by the way, you saw how Robert still gets himself killed against Detroit, if he gets hurt for us we'll owe him $16M next season.



We have to switch.



What's Dan going to say to that? He probably was in favor of anointing Griffin as the starter. After last year there was no reason not to. But things change. No rational person thinks Griffin deserves to be starting after this offseason, preseason, and Kirk's supposed improvement in camp.[/QUOTE]


Yeah I think this nails it.

And any of Dan's "resistance" was likely more about what to do with him now.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Someone posted that Robert's father contacted Stephen A. Smith to offer his version of RGIII's benching. I wonder if they are off somewhere cooking up a story intended to embarrass the Redskins organization? If so, this mess could get worse before it gets better.

I'm also wondering if RGIII's camp will try to force the Redskins to release him, if necessary.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

I'm glad this happen. I just don't like how the coaches handled it. It should have been an open competition from the beginning. That way would could have avoided the circus we have going on now.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1118687]

Gruden's offense in Cincy put up some great numbers over several seasons but he had a certain player type to work with. He had an outstanding offensive line, huge receivers and two big TE's that could catch and block. Look at the stats he put up with Andy Dalton. That type of offensive success in the same division with the Ravens and Steelers is an accomplishment. [/quote]

Nailed it. It takes time to build that roster but Gruden and Scot are heading in the same direction. Having RG3 out of the spotlight and probably off the roster, only helps get there quicker. Keep the continuity and vision. If KC can be a solid top 15 QB by 2016, I think we can really develop the roster and get things headed into 8-10 win territory pretty quick. The offense isn't as far away as some think. The secondary is the terrible though.

Scot will get us more 2's, 3's and 4's for the draft in 2016. That's where he shines and can really fill the roster out. I'm excited about the next few years. I don't expect deep playoff runs, I just want consistency and progress.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[QUOTE=redskinsfan1980;1118745]I'm glad this happen. I just don't like how the coaches handled it. It should have been an open competition from the beginning. That way would could have avoided the circus we have going on now.[/QUOTE]


An open competition would have created it's own circus and drama.

[url]http://realredskins.com/2015/09/02/need-to-know-why-didnt-the-redskins-have-a-quarterback-competition/[/url]

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Mattyk;1118748]An open competition would have created it's own circus and drama.

[url=http://realredskins.com/2015/09/02/need-to-know-why-didnt-the-redskins-have-a-quarterback-competition/]Need to Know: Why didn’t the Redskins have a quarterback competition? | Rich Tandler's Real Redskins[/url][/quote]

McCloughan has done a lot to stop the drama, unfortunately the fans and the media (specially the local media) are bent on keeping the drama up.

I was listening to the Football Today podcast a few days ago, they were talking the Bills releasing Fred Jackson and saying that the team wanted to release him earlier in the offseason, but ownership stopped that. I laughed when I heard b/c some people here swear we're the only team with problems.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[QUOTE=Ruhskins;1118749]McCloughan has done a lot to stop the drama, unfortunately the fans and the media (specially the local media) are bent on keeping the drama up.



I was listening to the Football Today podcast a few days ago, they were talking the Bills releasing Fred Jackson and saying that the team wanted to release him earlier in the offseason, but ownership stopped that. I laughed when I heard b/c some people here swear we're the only team with problems.[/QUOTE]


Yeah everyone has drama no doubt. Fans live in a fishbowl and think everything only happens to their team.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1118685][url=http://www.sbnation.com/2015/9/1/9232961/robert-griffin-iii-washington-jay-gruden-dan-snyder-mike-shanahan-injury-concussion]A comprehensive history of how Washington ruined Robert Griffin III's body, mind and spirit - SBNation.com[/url]

This is a good read, but long. This might be the best article I have ever read on RG3's career with the Redskins, which now appears to be in retrospect. There are cool embedded GIF's of RG3's various injuries, and honestly, upon watching them again, were quite gruesome.

His future seemed so immense in 2012, but it was obvious that the knee injury, and concussions are most likely career-ending in the sense that he most likely will never, ever, be anything close to what he once was. Not even a shadow. I think his best bet is to get a fresh start somewhere else, as a backup where he can learn the fine points of the game, and perhaps some team will give him a shot again to start. I just think while only 25, his body has suffered terrible injuries and is no longer up to NFL duty...[/quote]

I think there is plenty of blame to go around for the demise of RG3.
Unmentioned by most is other than Russell Wilson the effectiveness of the
dual threat QB has been minimized. An example since 2012 Colin Kaepernick's
numbers have dropped substantially, like Robert his YPC is down over 2 yards
a carry from 2012. Different system, injured or not a repeat of 2012 wasn't
happening in 2015, defenses would not allow it.

Only a blind man would think Robert's first injury was handled well, he was returned to action when the risk of making the knee 100% worse was real
high. Shanahan let him play against Seattle until they almost killed him. I
don't care what Robert wanted to do, he doesn't run the show and the coach
has to look out for the players.

I won't lay any blame on Robert for rumors, just what I see with my own two
eyes. It is real simple, when defenses and injuries took away the skills that made him offensive rookie of the year in 2012, he failed to adapt. He has shown ZERO improvement learning to play from the pocket. Please don't blame
the current schemes or play calling, the explosive first step and world class speed are gone. 2012's playbook wouldn't work even if defenses didn't evolve.


Who knows if he sits and gets with the right coach some new dance moves
can be learned. There have been many a slow footed NFL QB who had great pocket mobility. What mental issues he had with the game are all rumor,
but if he did have trouble with reads the old Robert bought time with his
sprinters burst, the new Robert can't do that. I have found the only easily obvious reading problem (viewing from your couch). Is the one read QB who locks on receivers (see Colin Kaepernick). I didn't notice Robert doing that.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

Very good post Buffalo Bob, all great points. I definitely agree that the days of the dual threat QB are near an end.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=mredskins;1118735]That is the real mystery here. Has he really jumped the learning curve or are they just so sick of Robert that anyone will do at this point who has not been in a Subway commercial.[/quote]

And to some extent you can't really go by what you see in camp, you have to decide more based on game action. Robert was said to be making improvements through OTAs but the bullets started flying in preseason and it looked like same old same old.

Kirk may have made a leap, but we won't really know until the season gets going. I still expect him to throw a lot of picks. I'll be pleasantly surprised if he doesn't. I can see with my eyes that he has great mastery of the offense, he hits the top of the drop and the ball comes out aggressively. If he does cut down the picks that will mean we're playing some winning football, and that will make Gruden look like a genius.

But who knows what Kirk will do. All we do know for sure is that Robert still looks like shit. He hesitates, doesn't know where to go with the ball, can't read things fast enough, and gets himself demolished.

The way I see it, starting Robert means we're guaranteed to suck. Kirk at least gives you half a chance.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=mredskins;1118735]That is the real mystery here. Has he really jumped the learning curve or are they just so sick of Robert that anyone will do at this point who has not been in a Subway commercial.[/quote]

Well you heard Gruden say that he took a big leap going from year one to two. Apparently they were going to let KC play with the first team offense (in Baltimore) whether Griffin was healthy or not. I just think it came down to he just beat out Griffin. And I think McCoy has also beat out Griffin. He is the 3rd best QB on the roster. Tough for people to admit but it's true.

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[quote=Schneed10;1118761]And to some extent you can't really go by what you see in camp, you have to decide more based on game action. Robert was said to be making improvements through OTAs but the bullets started flying in preseason and it looked like same old same old.

Kirk may have made a leap, but we won't really know until the season gets going. I still expect him to throw a lot of picks. I'll be pleasantly surprised if he doesn't. I can see with my eyes that he has great mastery of the offense, he hits the top of the drop and the ball comes out aggressively. If he does cut down the picks that will mean we're playing some winning football, and that will make Gruden look like a genius.

But who knows what Kirk will do. All we do know for sure is that Robert still looks like shit. He hesitates, doesn't know where to go with the ball, can't read things fast enough, and gets himself demolished.

The way I see it, starting Robert means we're guaranteed to suck. Kirk at least gives you half a chance.[/quote]
Agree x1000

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

So who's a third QB we can pick up?

Re: Cousins to start 2015 Season
 

[QUOTE=Alvin Walton;1118727]Michael Wise and Brian Mitchell collectively leaked to Scott McC that RG3 was breeding and betting on Siamese fighting fish.

Thats why Griffin will be benched and released.[/QUOTE]


Mike Wise? He's the white version of Jason Reid. Both clowns should be banned from any type of media