Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

It would be a great story, why not?

It’s the type of story that rallies a fan base too especially with his type of confident play. His poise in the pocket and willingness to push the football downfield..last person to do that was Cousins.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

Heinike can read and throw on time the slants, crosses, dig/stop routes. Seems his most consistent big play pass over 15 yards is the seam.

We need to get him in rythym. Back foot plants, ball is out.

I really want to see some expert breakdown on the Bills pass D. Were there things Heinike passed on? Didnt see and should have?

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[quote=Chico23231;1291990]It would be a great story, why not?

[B]It’s the type of story that rallies a fan base[/B] too especially with his type of confident play. His poise in the pocket and willingness to push the football downfield..last person to do that was Cousins.[/quote]

After 20+ years of garbage play only winning can rally this fan base.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

TH may be 28 but in terms of playing experience at this level he might as well be a rookie. The loss to Buffalo definitely wasn't all on him but he's got a lot to learn.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[quote=MTK;1292797]TH may be 28 but in terms of playing experience at this level he might as well be a rookie. The loss to Buffalo definitely wasn't all on him but he's got a lot to learn.[/quote]

It was a bad combination of him being green, and the defense getting steamrolled. He tried to do too much to keep the team in it, which resulted in costly mistakes. He just has to play a little more poised, within the game plan, take what the defense gives him...

That D though... it's the story.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[quote=MTK;1292797]TH may be 28 but in terms of playing experience at this level he might as well be a rookie. The loss to Buffalo definitely wasn't all on him but he's got a lot to learn.[/quote]

The pick to White was a rookie mistake.. He literally could have walked to White and handed him that pick

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

Ben Standig Retweeted
ProFootballReference
@pfref
·
40m
Best On Target Percentage:
1. Justin Herbert - 86.8%
2. Kirk Cousins - 86.2%
3. Davis Mills - 85.7%
4. Taylor Heinicke - 85.4%

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[QUOTE=EdmundDorf;1292919]Ben Standig Retweeted
ProFootballReference
@pfref
·
40m
Best On Target Percentage:
1. Justin Herbert - 86.8%
2. Kirk Cousins - 86.2%
3. Davis Mills - 85.7%
4. Taylor Heinicke - 85.4%[/QUOTE]


TH is far from the problem, at least at this point. I actually think Sunday he is going to ball out. Not just because we are playing ATL, but nobody can say he doesn’t have passion, and that Bills game is probably pissing him off. Play with poise, but play pissed off. Make ATL pay, and hope the D brings their nut sacks.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

Imagine Taylor on sidelines watching team go down 21 -0 .. I’m sure he tried to do too much and just flat made mistakes .. but it’s hard to fault a guy that has been thrust into this position because the team has Mis managed the QB position.. is he a legit starter ?? Well he is on this team .. i hope he plays well and I also hope this team realizes they still need A franchise QB .. Taylor could be a hell of a backup for a long long time .. what I want to see is this D start playing as a unit and not look confused… that is on the coaches .

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

Until the defense pulls their heads out of their asses, it doesn't matter what the offense does. That being said, Heiny needs to hit his drop and rollout or takeoff if he isn't ready to throw it. He is too short and doesn't have a strong enough arm to sit back there and pat the ball. You can use your legs and still be smart.

Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[QUOTE=sdskinsfan2001;1292923]Until the defense pulls their heads out of their asses, it doesn't matter what the offense does. That being said, Heiny needs to hit his drop and rollout or takeoff if he isn't ready to throw it. He is too short and doesn't have a strong enough arm to sit back there and pat the ball. You can use your legs and still be smart.[/QUOTE]


Which recent quarterback used to pat the shit outta the ball?
Was RG-3 doin that in 2013? I remember someone in the last ten years it was like they were playing the bongos.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

TH stunk on Sun. It is what it is. On to Atl.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

If I were defending TH I am keeping him in the pocket, clogging the middle of the field and making him throw outside the numbers. I am not sure he can beat NFL defenses throwing outside the numbers.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[quote=punch it in;1292925]Which recent quarterback used to pat the shit outta the ball?
Was RG-3 doin that in 2013? I remember someone in the last ten years it was like they were playing the bongos.[/quote]

Not sure, it's pretty common among bad QBs.

Not labeling him as bad, because we need more of a sample size to make a decision one way or another. But it's not a good tendency to have. Hopefully with more starts he gets more comfortable.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1292934]If I were defending TH I am keeping him in the pocket, clogging the middle of the field and making him throw outside the numbers. I am not sure he can beat NFL defenses throwing outside the numbers.[/quote]

And you don't have to worry about short passes or screens, because those don't exist much in Scott Turner's playbook.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

That's just not true. That's definitely part of the Turner playbook.

That sweet 73 yard TD to Gibson was a -2 yard pass with Flowers/Roullier leading the charge and receivers blocking downfield.

Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[QUOTE=Ruhskins;1292965]And you don't have to worry about short passes or screens, because those don't exist much in Scott Turner's playbook.[/QUOTE]


They definitely do not exist much. Use Mckissic more with those.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1292965]And you don't have to worry about short passes or screens, because those don't exist much in Scott Turner's playbook.[/quote]

That is Turner's playbook.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1292970]That is Turner's playbook.[/quote]

Then maybe TH is always looking for the deep pass.

On a serious note, listening to Keim and Logan Paulsen talk about TH, on the latest Keim podcast, they talked about how TH needs to do more check downs and go to his 2nd or 3rd options.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

Turner's playbook is to look for the deep pass first, and then work through progressions.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[QUOTE=Chief X_Phackter;1292979]Turner's playbook is to look for the deep pass first, and then work through progressions.[/QUOTE]


Maybe if hamstring ever takes the field that will work. It will certainly help take the top off the defense and open up the middle of the field. Logan Thomas will be a big beneficiary and every quarterback loves that safety valve.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

To me as of now TH is like an upgrade on Colt McCoy; reliable back up you usually trust to come in and have a chance to win if your starter goes down, and/or serve as a good starter if your main man is down for more than 1 game. But not a franchise QB. He could be a very good starter if he shows improvement (low sample size) but I don't see him having the tools to be a franchise QB in the making.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;1292987]To me as of now TH is like an upgrade on Colt McCoy; reliable back up you usually trust to come in and have a chance to win if your starter goes down, and/or serve as a good starter if your main man is down for more than 1 game. But not a franchise QB. He could be a very good starter if he shows improvement (low sample size) but I don't see him having the tools to be a franchise QB in the making.[/quote]

Only difference is Colt McCoy was in the league and played a hell of a lot more games lol. No comparison

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[url]https://youtu.be/2TzXEOV9sU0[/url]

^ finally found a film breakdown of TH vs Bills

I heard Cooley say we have to run a simple "triangle" offense for Heinike nd he said thats fine, you can win with that if its done right. Im not familiar with that in NFL but everyone knows Phils triangle offense in the NBA or basic soccer teachings.

Bills played a ton of single high safety challenging us to beat them deep .. and Heinike just isnt seeing good deep routes, isnt getting the ball out on time. Like he doesnt trust his arm.

Bills had 10 guys within 7 yards of the LOS a lot.

This is what we saw last year with our weak armed QBs. Teams could pack in the D and only worry about defending the first 20 yards from the LOS.

RR said pre season we need to stretch the field and make teams have to defend the entire field. Even if its an incompletion.

Nicki Jhabvala
@NickiJhabvala
Ron Rivera on creating more explosive plays this year: "Now we have the potential to put 3 or 4 guys on the field that have the potential to go the distance every time. ... The things we did, we did with that express intent," to play faster and to stretch the field vertically.
1:45 PM · Sep 6, 2021·Twitter Web App

---

Signing Fitz and Samuel, drafting Brown = done with express intent to make this offense more vertical ...

so far its the same offense with weak armed QBs and our "explosive" plays are screens going to the house.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[quote=SunnySide;1292998][url]https://youtu.be/2TzXEOV9sU0[/url]

^ finally found a film breakdown of TH vs Bills

I heard Cooley say we have to run a simple "triangle" offense for Heinike nd he said thats fine, you can win with that if its done right. Im not familiar with that in NFL but everyone knows Phils triangle offense in the NBA or basic soccer teachings.

Bills played a ton of single high safety challenging us to beat them deep .. and Heinike just isnt seeing good deep routes, isnt getting the ball out on time. Like he doesnt trust his arm.

Bills had 10 guys within 7 yards of the LOS a lot.

This is what we saw last year with our weak armed QBs. Teams could pack in the D and only worry about defending the first 20 yards from the LOS.

RR said pre season we need to stretch the field and make teams have to defend the entire field. Even if its an incompletion.

Nicki Jhabvala
@NickiJhabvala
Ron Rivera on creating more explosive plays this year: "Now we have the potential to put 3 or 4 guys on the field that have the potential to go the distance every time. ... The things we did, we did with that express intent," to play faster and to stretch the field vertically.
1:45 PM · Sep 6, 2021·Twitter Web App

---

Signing Fitz and Samuel, drafting Brown = done with express intent to make this offense more vertical ...

so far its the same offense with weak armed QBs and our "explosive" plays are screens going to the house.[/quote]

I know there are many advantages of having the potential for a more vertical offense, but yet I see our defense get beaten more often than not with short to intermediate passes.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

10:45 mark .. feel kinda bad for Heinike on that int.

Hes ultimately responsible but Terry was standing in the flat open waving his hands at him and the DB sees it and has time to break off his man and step in front of Terry.

---

this guy highlighted maybe 15 passing plays .. I think all 15 Bills were playing single high safety with 10 guys near the LOS.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[quote=Meks;1292989]Only difference is Colt McCoy was in the league and played a hell of a lot more games lol. No comparison[/quote]

I did say as of now and its a small sample size. There is definitely potential there, but I just don't see him growing into a franchise QB.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

So what does the anti Scott Turner crowd have to say after watching that film breakdown? He is obviously calling plays that are getting guys open. Is he supposed to go out and play QB himself? It is a different story once you see things from the eye in the sky.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[quote=SunnySide;1292998][url]https://youtu.be/2TzXEOV9sU0[/url]

^ finally found a film breakdown of TH vs Bills

I heard Cooley say we have to run a simple "triangle" offense for Heinike nd he said thats fine, you can win with that if its done right. Im not familiar with that in NFL but everyone knows Phils triangle offense in the NBA or basic soccer teachings.

Bills played a ton of single high safety challenging us to beat them deep .. and Heinike just isnt seeing good deep routes, isnt getting the ball out on time. Like he doesnt trust his arm.

Bills had 10 guys within 7 yards of the LOS a lot.

This is what we saw last year with our weak armed QBs. Teams could pack in the D and only worry about defending the first 20 yards from the LOS.

RR said pre season we need to stretch the field and make teams have to defend the entire field. Even if its an incompletion.

Nicki Jhabvala
@NickiJhabvala
Ron Rivera on creating more explosive plays this year: "Now we have the potential to put 3 or 4 guys on the field that have the potential to go the distance every time. ... The things we did, we did with that express intent," to play faster and to stretch the field vertically.
1:45 PM · Sep 6, 2021·Twitter Web App

---

Signing Fitz and Samuel, drafting Brown = done with express intent to make this offense more vertical ...

so far its the same offense with weak armed QBs and our "explosive" plays are screens going to the house.[/quote]

This is a good observation…def agree on Brown and Samuel strategy of bringing the vertical game. Heinicke def doesn’t have he arm talent to push it down field.

The problem I have and I’ve always had…when you don’t have the QB or have an injury with our QB…too lean on an effective running game. Jay failed at this…I think Turner has been better but not great. I’d like to see a more diverse running game, I’d like to see 12 personnel, Etc. I’ve seen Turner abandon the run game.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

Scott Turner's offense isn't about arm strength, it's based around timing. The QBs need to have quick decisions. Also Arm strength is the most overrated aspect of a QB... Look at a guy like Burrow who can be just as deadly as Josh Allen as a passer. Now I will agree that TH has a below AVG NFL Arm so yes that is a problem and is why he was undrafted

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1293052]Scott Turner's offense isn't about arm strength, it's based around timing. The QBs need to have quick decisions. Also Arm strength is the most overrated aspect of a QB... Look at a guy like Burrow who can be just as deadly as Josh Allen as a passer. Now I will agree that TH has a below AVG NFL Arm so yes that is a problem and is why he was undrafted[/quote]

It really showed last week. He could not throw into the wind at all. He had no confidence to throw downfield into the wind. We he tried his balls looked like Billy Kilmer.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1293052][B]Scott Turner's offense isn't about arm strength, it's based around timing. The QBs need to have quick decisions.[/B] Also Arm strength is the most overrated aspect of a QB... Look at a guy like Burrow who can be just as deadly as Josh Allen as a passer. Now I will agree that TH has a below AVG NFL Arm so yes that is a problem and is why he was undrafted[/quote]

I agree with this bc last year our offense was quick short passes as an extension of the run game ... but I thought maybe that was perhaps him just adjusting and dialing down his playbook bc of personnel (Alex Smith/Allen).

This year I think we made additions to try and get players to fit more of what he wanted .. seemed like going vertical/stretching field/making defense have to defend entire field = what the FO focused on adding this year.

Now w the injury to Fitz we cant do what we want to do (who knows if Fitz wouldve worked out anyway) .. and our figuring out how to harmonize this offense with Taylor Heinike. He doesnt seem to make quick decisions but he does have some scramble ability and ability to hit a seam.

Year 2 and I dont think Scott Turner is getting to run the playbook he wants to.

Thats life in the NFL.

Adapt.

Taylor Heinke isnt Kyle Allen.
Taylor Heinike isnt Fitz.

Hes like something in between ... making his 4th career start.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

Most glaring issue this week was his accuracy, or lack thereof. Missed too many wide open guys. And when he hesitates, he simply doesn't have the arm strength to make up for it.

Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1295330]Most glaring issue this week was his accuracy, or lack thereof. Missed too many wide open guys. And when he hesitates, he simply doesn't have the arm strength to make up for it.[/QUOTE]


Definitely accuracy issues but I think he hesitates like you said and than when he commits it is still hesitation as opposed to arm strength. We have seen him make throws off his back foot and across the field running the other way. I dont feel like arm strength is the issue as much as confidence that he can make the throw in the first place. But at that point either throw it away or slide and live another day. The worst thing u can do is hesitate and than commit late.
Like Okie said - quick decisions. Not stalled ones.
That is confidence / fear of turning it over.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

5 games.

With sometimes shifty play calling.

And some shitty throws.

One healthy main weapon and the right side of his OL injured.

Still 5 games.

Many bigger issues then Heinicke.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

The only upside of Heinicke getting all this playing time is finding out once and for all that he doesn't have what it takes.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

Definitely bigger issues but QB will also be under the microscope fair or not. If we're going to praise him when he plays well it's only fair game to critique him when he doesn't.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[quote=MTK;1295341]Definitely bigger issues but QB will also be under the microscope fair or not. If we're going to praise him when he plays well it's only fair game to critique him when he doesn't.[/quote]

Yeah for the most part he had good protection on Sunday and was just awful.. He's a better option than Allen though, simply because he's a gunslinger and allen is checkdown charlie. Losing Logan Thomas was a big hit

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1295346]Yeah for the most part he had good protection on Sunday and was just awful.. He's a better option than Allen though, simply because he's a gunslinger and allen is checkdown charlie. Losing Logan Thomas was a big hit[/quote]

Checkdown Charlie would be ok with me as long as he's not checking it down to the opponent. This defense isn't good enough to give extra possessions to the other team.

Re: Taylor Effing Heinicke
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1295350]Checkdown Charlie would be ok with me as long as he's not checking it down to the opponent. This defense isn't good enough to give extra possessions to the other team.[/quote]

Its a double edged sword with Heineke or Fitz... Both will throw picks but they will also throw TD's downfield..