Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1280099]There absolutely should be a competition. Yes Heinecke was a one off, but Fitz is on a 1 year deal and is 38. They should bring in a late round rookie, and let them compete mainly so we know what we have in 2022.

Also, of course you go for Stafford over Heinicke that is a no brainer. But Fitz isnt Stafford, he is on his 9th team for a reason. If he wins the starting job that is fine and in 2022 we are back to the whole qb drawing board.

I think some of this discussion assumes I or others are arguing for Heinicke. I am not. I am saying the goal of the coaching staff should be to find a long term solution at the qb, and you do that through competition. Until we have a qb we can seriously count on for 3-4 years minimum there should be competition every year.

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WFT signing Fitz doesn't end the search for a QB of the future. Every team is looking for a QB of the future even teams like KC, and Balt. WFT needed a QB for the present, because it didn't have one, and Fitz is now that guy.

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

For those fans of having a "competition", why is Allen not getting any mention? Seems odd to leave out the likely #2.

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1280141]For those fans of having a "competition", why is Allen not getting any mention? Seems odd to leave out the likely #2.[/QUOTE]For me it's because Fitz and TH are similar styles so i would prefer those two take the reps and the rest of the offense stay focused on that style. Kyle would better have followed AS in my opinion. But i am also open to taking a qb in the 3rd and let that qb compete with RF. Basically the point is whichever qb in camp not named Fitz that the coaches see a potential long term solution should have the opportunity to compete.

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Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1280099]There absolutely should be a competition. Yes Heinecke was a one off, but Fitz is on a 1 year deal and is 38. They should bring in a late round rookie, and let them compete mainly so we know what we have in 2022.

Also, of course you go for Stafford over Heinicke that is a no brainer. But Fitz isnt Stafford, he is on his 9th team for a reason. If he wins the starting job that is fine and in 2022 we are back to the whole qb drawing board.

I think some of this discussion assumes I or others are arguing for Heinicke. I am not. I am saying the goal of the coaching staff should be to find a long term solution at the qb, and you do that through competition. Until we have a qb we can seriously count on for 3-4 years minimum there should be competition every year.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk[/quote]

Why bring in another late-round rookie? Lets see what Montez can do. He's 6'5", mobile and a good athlete at QB. He's basically a plus-sized version of Heinicke.

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1280141]For those fans of having a "competition", why is Allen not getting any mention? Seems odd to leave out the likely #2.[/quote]

Agree. Allen is RR's version of Colt McCoy and will be the #2. Unless TH does something spectacular he will likely be the odd man out.

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1280144]For me it's because Fitz and TH are similar styles so i would prefer those two take the reps and the rest of the offense stay focused on that style. Kyle would better have followed AS in my opinion. But i am also open to taking a qb in the 3rd and let that qb compete with RF. [B]Basically the point is whichever qb in camp not named Fitz that the coaches see a potential long term solution should have the opportunity to compete.[/B]

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk[/quote]

WFT currently has no QBs, not named Fitz, who are long term solutions at QB.

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

[quote=irish;1280147]Agree. Allen is RR's version of Colt McCoy and will be the #2. Unless TH does something spectacular he will likely be the odd man out.[/quote]

I'm not so sure. Heinicke and Allen were both backups brought over from Carolina, I'm not sure Coach Ron favors Allen as much as we may think he does. Heinicke is the one that just got paid decent backup money too, 2 years just under $5 mil. Allen's only signed for 1 year, $850K, plus we've seen him for an extended time with this team and didn't win games.

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

[quote=irish;1280147]Agree. Allen is RR's version of Colt McCoy and will be the #2. Unless TH does something spectacular he will likely be the odd man out.[/quote]

I say Heinicke makes the team but he will likely be inactive on game days as the #3. Fitz will start and Allen will be the #2. I don't think there will be any true competition going on.

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1280151]I say Heinicke makes the team but he will likely be inactive on game days as the #3. Fitz will start and Allen will be the #2. I don't think there will be any true competition going on.[/quote]

And if Fitz goes, down, Heinicke jumps to starter with Allen remaining the "gameday backup?"

I could see it happening.

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

I was looking at Fitzpatrick's situational stats on nfl.com in terms of interceptions over the last couple of seasons. Pretty interesting. It looks like his biggest struggle is between his own 20 and the 50. I wish they had it broken up by down and or distance to know more. He also tends to throw way more when behind which is not a surprise but he doesn't do to bad when behind by less than one score.
2018 playing behind by 9-16 points 4 TDs 6 INT
2018 playing behind by 8-1 points 2 TDs 2 INT
2019 9-16 points 2 TD 1 INT
2019 8-1 points 5 TD 2 INT
2020 9-16 points 1 TD 2 INT
2020 8-1 points 2 TD 3 INT

Not great but not bad. Last two years he was better passer first half of game than second by a fair margin but 2018 was awesome in 2nd half got better as game went on. Hopefully last two years not a trend.

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1280151]I say Heinicke makes the team but he will likely be inactive on game days as the #3. Fitz will start and Allen will be the #2. I don't think there will be any true competition going on.[/quote]

Yes, When I say odd man out I don't mean cut I mean not dressing on game day.

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

I will reverse this question, why the disdain for Heinicke. There were breakdowns of his two games that showed he had some qualities. For those that knock the multiple teams - he failed to replace the following qbs
brady,
Watson,
And Newton (when he was more in his prime)

Not many were going to beat those 3.

There is precedence in Kurt Warner and others coming back.

I get the limited play but his game against TB was exceptional especially given the limited practice.

Someone mentioned Montez and there was an article about using him in the Taysom Hill role. More splitting of snaps but that is a way to get other qbs chances to shine.

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Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

[quote=Monkeydad;1280150]I'm not so sure. [B]Heinicke and Allen were both backups brought over from Carolina[/B], I'm not sure Coach Ron favors Allen as much as we may think he does. Heinicke is the one that just got paid decent backup money too, 2 years just under $5 mil. Allen's only signed for 1 year, $850K, plus we've seen him for an extended time with this team and didn't win games.[/quote]

Heinicke was brought in from the St. Louis BattleHawks.

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1280155]I will reverse this question, why the disdain for Heinicke. There were breakdowns of his two games that showed he had some qualities. For those that knock the multiple teams - he failed to replace the following qbs
brady,
Watson,
And Newton (when he was more in his prime)

Not many were going to beat those 3.

There is precedence in Kurt Warner and others coming back.

I get the limited play but his game against TB was exceptional especially given the limited practice.

Someone mentioned Montez and there was an article about using him in the Taysom Hill role. More splitting of snaps but that is a way to get other qbs chances to shine.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk[/quote]

I don't have disdain for TH but there's a reason he was out of the NFL and with the BattleHawks (not ever playing). The idea he is a viable NFL starting QB is ridiculous. He could very well become a solid backup but that's his ceiling.

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1280155]I will reverse this question, why the disdain for Heinicke. There were breakdowns of his two games that showed he had some qualities. For those that knock the multiple teams - he failed to replace the following qbs
brady,
Watson,
And Newton (when he was more in his prime)

Not many were going to beat those 3.

There is precedence in Kurt Warner and others coming back.

I get the limited play but his game against TB was exceptional especially given the limited practice.

Someone mentioned Montez and there was an article about using him in the Taysom Hill role. More splitting of snaps but that is a way to get other qbs chances to shine.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk[/quote]

No disdain at all, just reality. He played well in one game and one quarter of another. Basically every time he's stepped on the field in the NFL he's been hurt. He's 27 and until last year was almost out of the league entirely.

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1280155]I will reverse this question, why the disdain for Heinicke. There were breakdowns of his two games that showed he had some qualities. For those that knock the multiple teams - he failed to replace the following qbs
brady,
Watson,
And Newton (when he was more in his prime)

Not many were going to beat those 3.

There is precedence in Kurt Warner and others coming back.

I get the limited play but his game against TB was exceptional especially given the limited practice.

Someone mentioned Montez and there was an article about using him in the Taysom Hill role. More splitting of snaps but that is a way to get other qbs chances to shine.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk[/quote]

My feelings for TH are I think he will get a shot at the field but I just doubt he has the ability to compete with RF. If he can that is a win for us but at his age he is still a short term option. In terms of Montez watching him warm up when TH came out of the TB game for a second he had no desire to be on the field maybe he has growth this offseason.

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

[QUOTE=MTK;1280158]No disdain at all, just reality. He played well in one game and one quarter of another. Basically every time he's stepped on the field in the NFL he's been hurt. He's 27 and until last year was almost out of the league entirely.[/QUOTE]

Very similar to Kurt Warner who was out of the league until he was 27. In his previous stint at Carolina with RR he was Newton's backup over Kyle Allen even getting the start ahead of KA when Newton was sidelined.

The injury issue I get, but it seems that is where having Fitz ready to step in makes a ton of sense. If Heinicke shows he is durable enough, and can not be a turnover machine, he has a shot. If not Fitz is there to start.

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Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

TH is no Kurt Warner.

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1280165]TH is no Kurt Warner.[/quote]

Plus Kurt Warner was a complete anomaly, there's a reason why his story is so unique. It never happens.

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1280161]Very similar to Kurt Warner who was out of the league until he was 27. In his previous stint at Carolina with RR he was Newton's backup over Kyle Allen even getting the start ahead of KA when Newton was sidelined.

The injury issue I get, but it seems that is where having Fitz ready to step in makes a ton of sense. If Heinicke shows he is durable enough, and can not be a turnover machine, he has a shot. If not Fitz is there to start.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk[/quote]

Its not even close to Warner. Warner was first team all AFL in 96 & 97 and led the Barnstormers to the Arena Bowl in those years. Warner was kicking ass in the AFL. TH couldn't start in the XFL. Again, no disdain for TH just reality.

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

[QUOTE=irish;1280168]Its not even close to Warner. Warner was first team all AFL in 96 & 97 and led the Barnstormers to the Arena Bowl in those years. Warner was kicking ass in the AFL. TH couldn't start in the XFL. Again, no disdain for TH just reality.[/QUOTE]

Don't forget the season he lit it up in the EFL (Amsterdam), that set up his chance to start for the Rams. Can't help thinking if the NFL seriously wants to improve talent levels (particularly at QB) then resurrecting the EFL wouldn't be the worst idea.

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

I'm trying to picture a conversation between Ron and Fitzpatrick where Ron tries to sell him on the idea of coming in to back up Taylor Heinicke.

Or even the idea he has to come in and compete for the job with a guy like Heinicke.

I don't think Fitzpatrick would have bothered signing here if either of those situations were the case and he probably would have laughed Rivera out of the room in the process.

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;1280176]Don't forget the season he lit it up in the EFL (Amsterdam), that set up his chance to start for the Rams. Can't help thinking if the NFL seriously wants to improve talent levels (particularly at QB) then resurrecting the EFL wouldn't be the worst idea.[/quote]

I did forget about that. Thanks for the history lesson.

Good point about the EFL and developing players. I definitely think something like the EFL would be good because college, IMO, doesn't do a good job of developing QBs for the NFL. That said, why would the NFL want to change when it already has a player development system that doesn't cost them a dime?

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1280181]I'm trying to picture a conversation between Ron and Fitzpatrick where Ron tries to sell him on the idea of coming in to back up Taylor Heinicke.

Or even the idea he has to come in and compete for the job with a guy like Heinicke.

I don't think Fitzpatrick would have bothered signing here if either of those situations were the case and he probably would have laughed Rivera out of the room in the process.[/quote]

He said on the Ross Tucker interview that he would have retired if he was asked to be a backup.. He is the QB1 for this season no doubt about it

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

Yeah, Taylor Heinicke is a nice story, and it could have been an even better story if the defense had held up in the playoffs...but he should count his blessings that he is even in the mix at this point. A lot of dominoes had to fall for him to even get the call to be the Wild Card starter.

I hope he shows enough in the offseason to win the #2 job. I think he is the perfect backup for Fitzpatrick. You already know he can come in on short notice and be effective.

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

TH wins the camp battle but is forced to sit anyway

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

[quote=Monkeydad;1280146]Why bring in another late-round rookie? Lets see what Montez can do. He's 6'5", mobile and a good athlete at QB. He's basically a plus-sized version of Heinicke.[/quote]

This. I just posted pretty much this same thing in another thread. I think we often tend to overlook what we have in Montez. There is upside there, IMO.

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

[quote=Number44;1280198]This. I just posted pretty much this same thing in another thread. I think we often tend to overlook what we have in Montez. There is upside there, IMO.[/quote]

Doesn't jive with reality though. We had Montez on the roster / practice squad all last season. When Dwayne got benched and then Allen got hurt and Alex eventually became hobbled, we signed a dude off the street as our quarantine QB. He was here for two weeks and he got the nod over Montez, who had been here all season.

I get what you're saying, maybe he'll get it this coming year. But he clearly didn't get it this year. The coaches picked up Heinicke out of math class at ODU and threw him onto the field over a guy who was on the roster all season long.

There's no sign that Montez is worth jack shit. There's a 92 PFF grade under Heinicke's belt in the playoffs against the Super Bowl champs.

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

Montez probably doesn’t even make the team

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;1280206]Doesn't jive with reality though. We had Montez on the roster / practice squad all last season. When Dwayne got benched and then Allen got hurt and Alex eventually became hobbled, we signed a dude off the street as our quarantine QB. He was here for two weeks and he got the nod over Montez, who had been here all season.

I get what you're saying, maybe he'll get it this coming year. But he clearly didn't get it this year. The coaches picked up Heinicke out of math class at ODU and threw him onto the field over a guy who was on the roster all season long.

There's no sign that Montez is worth jack shit. There's a 92 PFF grade under Heinicke's belt in the playoffs against the Super Bowl champs.[/quote]

Exactly. They know what they have in Montez and they know they don't have anything.

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

Why would Allen be the #2? His contract is nothing comparted to TH. That tells you pretty much what they think of both of them. One got a lot of respect financially and the other basically got peanuts.

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1280288]Why would Allen be the #2? His contract is nothing comparted to TH. That tells you pretty much what they think of both of them. One got a lot of respect financially and the other basically got peanuts.[/quote]

I think there is a "competition" for all 3 spots. But the real competition is between Heinicke and Allen for No. 2. May the best man win.

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1280288]Why would Allen be the #2? His contract is nothing comparted to TH. That tells you pretty much what they think of both of them. One got a lot of respect financially and the other basically got peanuts.[/quote]

Allen got less because he was an exclusive rights free agent (ERFA).

ERFA: Any player with fewer than three accrued seasons and an expired contract. If his original team offers him a one-year contract and the league minimum (based on his credited seasons), the player cannot negotiate with other teams.

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

I wonder whether Montez is a candidate to switch to TE, he is clearly not going to make it as a QB in the league, and given his size and athleticism it would make more sense than keeping him on the roster as a QB weapon ala Taysom Hill, if indeed Ben Standig is accurate in his report on the thought process of the coaching staff

Just a thought, but my last word on Montez, I have wasted too many characters on practice squad QBs already

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

[quote=EdmundDorf;1280292]I wonder whether Montez is a candidate to switch to TE, he is clearly not going to make it as a QB in the league, and given his size and athleticism it would make more sense than keeping him on the roster as a QB weapon ala Taysom Hill, if indeed Ben Standig is accurate in his report on the thought process of the coaching staff

Just a thought, but my last word on Montez, I have wasted too many characters on practice squad QBs already[/quote]

Logan Thomas 2.0

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1280288]Why would Allen be the #2? His contract is nothing comparted to TH. That tells you pretty much what they think of both of them. One got a lot of respect financially and the other basically got peanuts.[/quote]

Do you really think TH leapfrogged Allen based on that 1 game?

The contracts are irrelevant in trying to determine who's the QB2 or 3, Allen was paid based on his ERFA status which pays less than the RFA status TH had.

[URL="https://www.hogshaven.com/2021/1/12/22226454/erfa-rfa-and-washingtons-quarterbacks"]ERFA, RFA and Washington’s quarterbacks[/URL]

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1280309]Do you really think TH leapfrogged Allen based on that 1 game?

The contracts are irrelevant in trying to determine who's the QB2 or 3, Allen was paid based on his ERFA status which pays less than the RFA status TH had.

[URL="https://www.hogshaven.com/2021/1/12/22226454/erfa-rfa-and-washingtons-quarterbacks"]ERFA, RFA and Washington’s quarterbacks[/URL][/quote]

True, but you can also take the view that if they thought Allen was the better #2 option, why offer TH a contract at all, let alone the amount he got?

I reckon their thinking went like this; TH showed well in the TB game and everyone really got behind him. If we lose out in FA and the draft we need a guy to at least start the season everyone can buy into as a potential starter. Allen got hurt badly and hadn't shown a lot to that point, but he knows the system, we know what we have in him and we need the depth at this point. We're at low exposure if we tender him as he has to sign, and if he can't come back from the ankle, then it's a minimal hit.

If I'm right the clear thinking right now is Fitz is #1, TH #2, Allen #3 and Montez will either not survive camp or (as suggested) be tried out at another position. If we do draft a QB again, then they'll likely be going up against Allen for a PS spot (assuming Allen is still eligible).

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1280309]Do you really think TH leapfrogged Allen based on that 1 game?

The contracts are irrelevant in trying to determine who's the QB2 or 3, Allen was paid based on his ERFA status which pays less than the RFA status TH had.

[URL="https://www.hogshaven.com/2021/1/12/22226454/erfa-rfa-and-washingtons-quarterbacks"]ERFA, RFA and Washington’s quarterbacks[/URL][/quote]

Yes. Playoff game as well as the one where he came in off the bench.

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

[quote=mtk;1280309]do you really think th leapfrogged allen based on that 1 game?

The contracts are irrelevant in trying to determine who's the qb2 or 3, allen was paid based on his erfa status which pays less than the rfa status th had.

[url="https://www.hogshaven.com/2021/1/12/22226454/erfa-rfa-and-washingtons-quarterbacks"]erfa, rfa and washington’s quarterbacks[/url][/quote]

yes.

Re: Fitzmagic Thread
 

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