Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

[quote=Ohioskins;1281111]Monkeydad, you are saying a guy who has played essentially against Division 2 competition,and then sat out this past year is worth the Number 4 pick but the QB who directed the destruction of Clemson in the Nation Championship semi Final (against Trevor Lawrence) is not worth the Number 4 pick? Are you friggin kidding me?[/quote]

You don't mortgage the future. Half the first round QBs will be busts. Some lower rated QBs will be better than the busts, we have to find one of those, if not this year, then next or year after. We have too many holes to trade up. Incredibly stupid move, even if we get Jones or whoever.

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1281125]I don't think you can judge the player by the school he goes to. There is so much more that goes into it than the school, and it's almost all individual-based. Talent, football IQ, work ethic, coachability, leadership, etc...

I do think the competition they play against matters [I]somewhat[/I] in the evaluation process, but it's not a game changer; and if anything having a lot of talent around a QB puts more pressure on them to perform.[/quote]

Having a lot of talent around QB, like fielding an All-Pro team against normal teams, does but pressure on them, but also makes them look WAY better. Good scouts cut out the gravy train plays and look at the film of NFL type plays, usually a smaller sample set. This leads to significant discrepancy between the Homers wowed by the highlight reels, and what the scouts see. Point is, good scouts can project much more accurately, though still not exact science.

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

[quote=Monkeydad;1281103][url]https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/football-team/michael-lombardi-thinks-washington-will-make-major-move-trey-lance?cid=Yahoo&partner=ya4nbcs[/url]

The first three picks in the draft belong to the Jaguars, Jets and 49ers -- in that order. All three teams are expected to take quarterbacks with those picks, with Clemson's Trevor Lawrence expected to go first and BYU's Zach Wilson to follow. Who San Francisco takes at third remains uncertain, but signs are pointing towards Alabama's Mac Jones.

With this being the case, the draft truly begins at the fourth pick, one that currently belongs to the Falcons. However, reports surfaced yesterday that Atlanta is willing to move back from the pick, should a QB-needy team like Washington want to trade up for that selection.

Lombardi doesn't think Washington will strike a deal with Atlanta right away. He believes the asking price is too high for what Washington is willing to pay.
[B]
"They're going to wait for the draft. And, if Trey Lance starts to slide, they're going to go get his ass," Lombardi said. "They're gonna go get his ass. 'We're going to react to what happens in front of us.' He's not lying. Ron [Rivera] is just being totally honest."

[/B]But, if Lance makes it past the fourth pick in the draft - by Atlanta or whatever team trades up into that spot - the analyst thinks Washington could make a move.

"I think they want Trey Lance. I think they're willing to go get him. I think they want to do it in a way to where they can minimize their cost," Lombardi said. "And so the only way you can do that is get on the clock and wait for that draft to start and wait for who goes four, who goes five, who's at six. Maybe I can get to six and they'll be willing to move down [to 19] and I'll give them next year's [first-round pick] and yada yada yah. And move on that way."

If Washington were to select Lance, he would not be put into action right away, especially after adding Fitzpatrick in free agency.[/quote]

The real question is, who is the traitor in the organization leaking this stuff. Remember year Chiefs took Mahomes, traded up, NO ONE knew they were interested. Unless this is disinfo, meant to make another team trade up for QB and help ensure all five QBs gone so we get better player when we pick, you would NOT want stuff like this leaked, as you up the price.

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

It's all smoke & mirrors right now and will be until the draft. The only organizations that have no reason to hide their intent are JAX, NYJ, and SF. Everyone else is in full disinformation mode...

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

Monkeydad, if you think Haskins and Fields are the same type of quarterback just because they both came from OSU, you are not a particularly astute fan. To begin with Haskins was coached by and played in a system designed by Urban Meyer. While Meyer had a great win/loss record his offense was not designed with a pro set. It was more of a Tim Tebow type system.

By contrast, Fields has played under Ryan Day who runs a pro style offense. Day himself was a QB coach in the NFL. Your anti Big Ten bias is also showing.

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1281137]It's all smoke & mirrors right now and will be until the draft. The only organizations that have no reason to hide their intent are JAX, NYJ, and SF. Everyone else is in full disinformation mode...[/quote]

This.

Right now my biggest hope at 19 is someone will fall to us ala John Allen. I still think there is a chance of that with one of the top WR can...

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

The Trey Lance hype train is really picking up.. I just don't see us trading into the top 7 to get him but what do I know?

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1281146]The Trey Lance hype train is really picking up.. I just don't see us trading into the top 7 to get him but what do I know?[/quote]

I agree. I’d be more into it if it was a more seasoned QB that wasn’t so raw we were talking about.

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

[quote=SkinzWin;1281147]I agree. I’d be more into it if it was a more seasoned QB that wasn’t so raw we were talking about.[/quote]

I think he has great upside but we've already seen the 1 year QB that had "all the tools" I think Lance is better than DH but still.. It's a huge gamble

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

[url]https://washingtonfootballwire.usatoday.com/2021/04/09/washingtons-potential-interest-in-trey-lance-makes-perfect-sense-2021-nfl-draft/[/url]

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

[quote=Scalper;1281134]The real question is, who is the traitor in the organization leaking this stuff. Remember year Chiefs took Mahomes, traded up, NO ONE knew they were interested. Unless this is disinfo, meant to make another team trade up for QB and help ensure all five QBs gone so we get better player when we pick, you would NOT want stuff like this leaked, as you up the price.[/quote]

Probably Ryan Fitzpatrick. :D

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

[QUOTE=skinsfaninok;1281149][url]https://washingtonfootballwire.usatoday.com/2021/04/09/washingtons-potential-interest-in-trey-lance-makes-perfect-sense-2021-nfl-draft/[/url][/QUOTE]

Given what I've read about Lance maybe he's worth trading up for, but I can't see that trade coming before draft day at least, simply because he could easily be the 49ers target all along, and given it's almost nailed on that would only leave Fields and Jones available, at #4 you wouldn't risk trading up to top 10 if you had no chance of getting the guy you want. I'm betting we don't want Fields after one OSU QB burnt us already and I don't see us giving up a lot for a chance at Jones. So I wouldn't trade up unless we had a guarantee of getting Lance.

I'd still strongly consider Jones if he fell to #19 but I wouldn't trade into the top 10 for him.

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

The Trey Lance comparisons to Cam Newton are laughable.

Since when did ND State play an SEC schedule? With only one year of play under his belt, Lance is the riskiest pick of QB's going.

Kellen Mond has a much higher floor with over 45 starts on his resume, and is as arguably as athletic, as Lance. And could be had in the 3rd or maybe 4th round. If he busts out, you only missed with a 3rd or 4th round pick.

I'd also throw the Stanford QB out there as a better option.

Praying that this is a huge smoke screen ....

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

[quote=Pervis_Griffith;1281164]The Trey Lance comparisons to Cam Newton are laughable.

Since when did ND State play an SEC schedule? With only one year of play under his belt, Lance is the riskiest pick of QB's going.

Kellen Mond has a much higher floor with over 45 starts on his resume, and is as arguably as athletic, as Lance. And could be had in the 3rd or maybe 4th round. If he busts out, you only missed with a 3rd or 4th round pick.

I'd also throw the Stanford QB out there as a better option.

Praying that this is a huge smoke screen ....[/quote]

I'm fine with trading up to like 13 to get Lance but into the top 6? No way

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

Now the media is just getting stupid. I highly doubt Rivera would do this after the smart approaches he's taken to free agency signings over the last 2 years. He's about high value moves.

[url]https://www.nbcsports.com/edge/football/nfl/player/63310/trey-lance[/url]

[QUOTE]TREY LANCE
QB, COLLEGE PLAYER

[B]The Athletic's Michael Lombardi reports the Washington Football Team could "unload all their picks" to move up in the NFL Draft and select North Dakota State's Trey Lance.
[/B]"I think they love Lance. I don't think, I know Washington loves Lance," Lombardi said on a recent GM Shuffle Pod. "I think they're willing to go get him." The Football Team trading away a bunch of picks to move into Atlanta's No. 4 draft spot would upend the entire draft, changing plans for most teams outside the top five or six selections. Lance in Washington would hardly be ideal for Terry McLaurin, as the Football Team would most likely operate a run-heavy offense centered on Lance and Antonio Gibson. Even if he gets the Week 1 gig, Ryan Fitzpatrick could once again be usurped by a rookie if Washington lands Lance.

RELATED: Ryan Fitzpatrick, Taylor Heinicke
SOURCE: Burgundy Blog on Twitter
Apr 9, 2021, 12:22 PM ET[/QUOTE]

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

[quote=Monkeydad;1281167]Now the media is just getting stupid. I highly doubt Rivera would do this after the smart approaches he's taken to free agency signings over the last 2 years. He's about high value moves.

[url]https://www.nbcsports.com/edge/football/nfl/player/63310/trey-lance[/url][/quote]

LOL I wish the draft was tonight

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

Must be an echo in here with these Lance rumors.

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

It's so dumb. NO WAY WFT is trading into the top 10 for Lance. I hope Atlanta takes him at 4.

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

I don't think it's realistic that we'd trade up to 4, but what if he starts to slide down towards the 10-12 range? That's probably when teams will start calling.

In the end if he's the next Mahomes there's no price that's too much.

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

Trading all of our picks for an unproven, 1 year starter is the most Redskinsey thing I’ve ever heard.
It must be true.. 😢
Hopefully some other poor fool of a team will save us from ourselves. 😁

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1281146]The Trey Lance hype train is really picking up.. I just don't see us trading into the top 7 to get him but what do I know?[/quote]

I watched a little of Lance. Jimminy F-ing X-mas does that guy have a strong arm. Takes more than that to be a QB in NFL of course, but I was blown away. Not like all-time strong, but this is really a deep class for QBs. A lot of years he would be 2nd overall QB. Not saying you should trade farm for him, but man does he have arm strength. He also seems to have only average accuracy at best, which mental aside, is probably primary determinant of NFL success. So who knows. I'm not a pro scout, but you watch the guy throw and I think some team before us takes him for sure, possibly in top 10. Watching him throw, top 5 doesn't sound ridiculous, for some team desperate for QB help.

I would guess that FO has very quietly determined approximate price of moving up to different spots in draft--before draft day desperation ups the price, which is why SF probably made deal early.

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

I think if the FO trades up, and I don't like the idea, the thinking might go something like this. In any other year, you'd have to trade up top-10 to get a player like (QB X), but if one falls, you can get him trading up less high, because class is so deep. So the cost less punitive this year than will be future year. I again don't buy the argument, but it is not preposterous either, especially if you think we'll be 5 spots lower in draft next year.

It is not like there is ever going to be a year where top-10 teams all have QBs, but Rodgers others drafted later in draft.

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

[quote=MTK;1281196]I don't think it's realistic that we'd trade up to 4, but what if he starts to slide down towards the 10-12 range? That's probably when teams will start calling.

In the end if he's the next Mahomes there's no price that's too much.[/quote]


Same can be said about Mac Jones being the next Tom Brady.

Who I'd obviously draft now, knowing what we know.


But chances are [U][B]very[/B][/U] good that Lance and Jones are neither Mahomes or Brady.

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

If Atlanta doesn't select a quarterback at #4, I can see a scenario where Washington moves up to #8, trading with the Carolina Panthers, and drafting a quarterback. NOT Trey Lance though - Justin Fields. Assuming neither NY or SF doesn't draft him.

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

[quote=Redskin Jim;1281202]Trading all of our picks for an unproven, 1 year starter is the most Redskinsey thing I’ve ever heard.
It must be true.. 😢
Hopefully some other poor fool of a team will save us from ourselves. 😁[/quote]

Is the shadow of Dan Snyder lengthening as the sun goes down on our draft?

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

Why Washington's priority in 2021 NFL draft could be finding a left tackle

[url]https://www.espn.com/blog/washington/post/_/id/41273/why-washingtons-priority-in-the-2021-nfl-draft-could-be-finding-a-left-tackle[/url]

Good article here. My advice don’t reach for Tackle in the first as the draft is deep with talent

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

[quote=Chico23231;1281210]Why Washington's priority in 2021 NFL draft could be finding a left tackle

[url]https://www.espn.com/blog/washington/post/_/id/41273/why-washingtons-priority-in-the-2021-nfl-draft-could-be-finding-a-left-tackle[/url]

Good article here. My advice don’t reach for Tackle in the first as the draft is deep with talent[/quote]

This is why I don't want to see us trade up in the 1st. There's no point selling out to get someone like Lance or Jones (or even Fields) and not being able to protect them. Just look what happened to Burrow. And if the guy proves a bust then you've not only wasted the picks you've traded, you have to do it all over again next year or the year after, AND still have to build a line around them (as you threw away the picks on your failed QB). Too much potential downside for the unknown upside if you ask me.

But likewise, I wouldn't trade back. Right now I can see Darrisaw and Jenkins being gone by 19, but if not I'd take one of them, and if they are gone, I'd take an LB and then draft LT in round 2 (or maybe package a trade for that rd 2 pick that allows us to still get an LT plus an extra pick. Can't help thinking trading away that 1st round pick means we will miss out on a stud player.

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

19: R1 P19 OT Christian Darrisaw - Virginia Tech
51: R2 P19 G Wyatt Davis - Ohio State
74: R3 P10 LB Nick Bolton - Missouri
82: R3 P18 S Andre Cisco - Syracuse
124: R4 P19 LB Cameron McGrone - Michigan
163: R5 P19 TE Tre' McKitty - Georgia
244: R7 P16 WR Ihmir Smith-Marsette - Iowa
246: R7 P18 CB Bryce Thompson - Tennessee

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;1281217]This is why I don't want to see us trade up in the 1st. There's no point selling out to get someone like Lance or Jones (or even Fields) and not being able to protect them. Just look what happened to Burrow. And if the guy proves a bust then you've not only wasted the picks you've traded, you have to do it all over again next year or the year after, AND still have to build a line around them (as you threw away the picks on your failed QB). Too much potential downside for the unknown upside if you ask me.

But likewise, I wouldn't trade back. Right now I can see Darrisaw and Jenkins being gone by 19, but if not I'd take one of them, and if they are gone, I'd take an LB and then draft LT in round 2 (or maybe package a trade for that rd 2 pick that allows us to still get an LT plus an extra pick. Can't help thinking trading away that 1st round pick means we will miss out on a stud player.[/quote]

We have too many needs to be trading up for QBs with potential but also massive question marks.

You would hate to see all five QBs and the 3-4 top LTs off board when we pick, but if so, there will be studs at some other position that fall. We are looking pretty good no matter how you slice it. Trading back always depends on the value. I probably don't trade back if I feel a surefire franchise LT is there, but depends on what is being offered. If the deal is good enough, it almost always makes sense to trade back, taking a top-tier franchise QB if you don't have one being an exception.

Look at the cascading effect of Miami trading repeatedly. They have piles of picks. You never get those opportunities if you don't make first trade. You need true studs at 5 high-leverage positions but can get by with very good players everywhere else. We still need LT and QB, so it is interesting to ask how good the trade-back offer has to be to make you pass on a franchise LT. How soon will we be picking top 15 or top 10 again in a draft deep with LTs?

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

Worth pointing out with Miami that a number of their trades started out as moving players that were arguably top level to start with (Landry, Tunsil etc.). I get the idea of trading players that are not as good as you hoped or have passed their peak, but moving good players for future picks isn't always wise. Using Miami as an example with this years haul of picks is a little disingenuous, given their recent history. They've traded multiple times in recent years with middling success to show for it. Having a raft of picks doesn't translate to success half as much as knowing what to do with those picks does.

In other words I'd rather stick with what we've got and pick the BPA than have more picks and ending up with little to show for them. I mean if the brain trust thinks they have 2 or 3 nailed on studs further down the order and trading out of #19 will deliver those guys to our roster then maybe, but I'd want to be pretty damn certain before I pull the trigger on that trade. Especially if we then see the guy we would have picked at #19 become a star.

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

Quarterback: Washington doesn’t need a quarterback. It will enter the draft with four of them. But it needs the right quarterback, someone who has the ability to become the starter and hold that role for years to come. Given Ryan Fitzpatrick’s presence and the team’s other needs, it’s a crapshoot whether Washington decides to draft one. The team has an interest in Stanford’s Davis Mills, as The Athletic’s Ben Standig has reported, but that’s no guarantee it would take him — or any other player at the position — for the sake of having one.

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

We don't need to take a QB. But if the value is there when our pick comes around, regardless of round, we should pull the trigger.

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

If Lance falls out of the top 10 (I know very unlikely) then I pull the trigger

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

I'm not a fan of trading up, and I definitely wouldn't trade up for Lance. If he's there at 19, and they like him, fine...

IF a QB falls and they decide to trade up, I would rather that target be Fields.

Staying at 19 or trading back if it makes sense is what I would rather them do.

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;1281266]I'm not a fan of trading up, and I definitely wouldn't trade up for Lance. If he's there at 19, and they like him, fine...

IF a QB falls and they decide to trade up, I would rather that target be Fields.

Staying at 19 or trading back if it makes sense is what I would rather them do.[/quote]

The biggest, dumbest mistake would be trading up for Lance, Mac or Fields

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

I’m strongly on the not trading up for a QB after this weekend.

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

[quote=Chico23231;1281271]I’m strongly on the not trading up for a QB after this weekend.[/quote]


I'm with ya (although not sure what happened this weekend).

I would rather grab an OT or LB at 19 ...
... continue balancing need with BPA in the second round ...
... and then maybe grab Kellen Mond or Davis Mills at QB with one of the 3rd round picks ....

And that's IF you feel the need to draft a QB.

I wouldn't be opposed to NOT drafting a QB at all, and rolling with what we have in the room currently.

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

[quote=Pervis_Griffith;1281273]I'm with ya (although not sure what happened this weekend).

I would rather grab an OT or LB at 19 ...
... continue balancing need with BPA in the second round ...
... and then maybe grab Kellen Mond or Davis Mills at QB with one of the 3rd round picks ....

And that's IF you feel the need to draft a QB.

I wouldn't be opposed to NOT drafting a QB at all, and rolling with what we have in the room currently.[/quote]

I think you can draft a QB round 3 or later that will be better than at least half the QBs drafted higher. Happens every year. I am for not spending a 1st or 2nd round pick on QB, barring some unforeseen plummet, but you absolutely want to get one more young guy in to replace Allen. He has no upside, should be replaced with someone that has some.

I still hate going with stopgap Fitz instead of giving reps to potential long-term answer, horrible decision. There could very well be a QB none of pundits favor that team loves, but I think you have to take one QB somewhere in draft, but not necessarily high, if one you like is available.

Best outcome besides something improbable like Parsons falling to us, is getting a franchise LT in 1st round and locking up QB blindside next decade. None of other holes, LB, S, TE, are as important as protecting your QBs long term.

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;1281236]Worth pointing out with Miami that a number of their trades started out as moving players that were arguably top level to start with (Landry, Tunsil etc.). I get the idea of trading players that are not as good as you hoped or have passed their peak, but moving good players for future picks isn't always wise. Using Miami as an example with this years haul of picks is a little disingenuous, given their recent history. They've traded multiple times in recent years with middling success to show for it. Having a raft of picks doesn't translate to success half as much as knowing what to do with those picks does.

In other words I'd rather stick with what we've got and pick the BPA than have more picks and ending up with little to show for them. I mean if the brain trust thinks they have 2 or 3 nailed on studs further down the order and trading out of #19 will deliver those guys to our roster then maybe, but I'd want to be pretty damn certain before I pull the trigger on that trade. Especially if we then see the guy we would have picked at #19 become a star.[/quote]

Miami turned Tunsil into an OBSCENE bounty. Now granted, they were lucky enough to have Cerrato 2.0 in O'Brien to trade with, deep QB class, etc.

Concur that FO must make good picks, but if they can't, you need a new GM and FO. Can't be afraid of picks just because some crappy FOs suck.

I would not simplistically ever say I'm picking and not trading until I hear offers, unless sitting #1 with surefire franchise QB and don't have one already. Nor would I say I am trading. It is about opportunity cost of player might have taken vs. gains in picks. Best teams maximize number of picks, which are lottery tickets with historical 50% rate of payout for good GMs.

We could realistically use a starting caliber MLB,WLB,SLB,TE,LT,FS,#3CB,#3WR. Plus a QB obviously. Plus a backup RB. Plus. . .

So if you feel like plenty of players available later then trading down can make sense. especially when a roster still has as many holes as ours. We would need this year and another solid offseason next year to have any hope of speaking of our roster as rounded out.

I STRONGLY favor nabbing a franchise LT if there with #19, but this would not preclude from listening to any serious trade down offer. It could be FO sees tons of 2nd-3rd round LTs that grade out similar, and trading down makes sense.

Re: Pre Draft Thread 2.0
 

I'd say we're of similar mind, I'm just saying unless you have your eye on 2-3 players in later rounds that you're pretty sure you can nab with those picks AND you don't see the BPA's available at your pick as franchise level stars you want, then trading down doesn't make sense. If you trade back AND then miss out on the guys you wanted then you're left pretty much high and dry. It all hangs on how good you are at assessing talent, as always, but with a trade like this it's about the benefit from those 2-3 plays being greater than that one guy at 19. Simply filling a hole isn't enough in the NFL, you need to put a body in that hole that elevates the position if you have the opportunity to do so.

If you have a potential pro bowl LT or LB in that slot, I say you take them as the longer term benefits to this roster from that one guy outweigh the benefits of picking up guys that just make you better instead of great.