Re: Giants postgame
 

I personally like the giants track suit I imagine the ladies love that

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1291422]I personally like the giants track suit I imagine the ladies love that[/quote]

:laughing2

I’m wearing timbs, jeans and no shirt over giants track suits

Re: Giants postgame
 

Haha truth

Studs and duds
[url]https://www.hogshaven.com/2021/9/17/22679186/washington-football-team-vs-ny-giants-studs-and-duds[/url]

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1291424]Haha truth

Studs and duds
[url]https://www.hogshaven.com/2021/9/17/22679186/washington-football-team-vs-ny-giants-studs-and-duds[/url][/quote]

Oline bounce back game

Re: Giants postgame
 

[QUOTE=Giantone;1291387]Gettlemen isn't getting fired. Between his age and his health issues there was talk of his retiring .[/QUOTE]


If he doesn’t retire he will get fired. Unless of course you guys turn it around.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=MTK;1291398]Totally agree, Moreland would be making zero difference right now. I get it, it was a curious move at the time to keep Apke mainly as a special teams guy, but Apke hasn't been out there. So what good would Moreland be doing right now considering he wouldn't even be playing.[/quote]

Moreland's cut didn't have much to do with Apke. It had to do with what they think St Juste, Darryl Roberts, and even McCain can do.

Now, we play quite a lot of nickel and even dime, so yeah, Moreland could be playing quite a lot. And considering rookie St Juste has had his fair share of struggles (as can be expected from a rookie), and Fuller is playing really bad, don't you think we could've used [URL="https://twitter.com/NextGenStats/status/1407058071071997953"]last year's 3rd best slot corner by next gen stat[/URL] in the rotation ?

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=SCRedskinsFan;1291362]If you are waiting for 8 consecutive quarters of solid defensive football you might be trying to watch from 6 feet under at Père Lachaise by the time that happens. (You‘ve become the most famous football expert in France by then…)[/quote]

Haha good one. I literally went "wait why would I be buried in... oh nice one" :lol:

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=mredskins;1291307]Exactly and we don't know how the season will play out.

We always complain we don't get breaks and last night we got all the breaks and folks are bitching. Geez.

We are .500 team this season and really if the defense can be who they are suppose to be that percent could go up.

My Debbie Downer comment:
[B]CY is not doing jack shit; i specifically focused on him at times and he creates very little pressure. Hope he turns it around. Sophomore slump[/B]?[/quote]

Funny, while being incredibly down on this D as a whole, I don't think individually our DLs played that bad. Sure we need them to produce more, but they [I][U]did sack Jones 4 times[/U][/I]. And made a few impactful TFLs.
I actually think CY made some impressive plays, I'll watch defensive snaps on All 22 and extract them.

Main issue is secondary and LBs IMO.

Now, the DL also earned some criticism because of expectations they partly created. They were crowned too early.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1291431]Moreland's cut didn't have much to do with Apke. It had to do with what they think St Juste, Darryl Roberts, and even McCain can do.

Now, we play quite a lot of nickel and even dime, so yeah, Moreland could be playing quite a lot. And considering rookie St Juste has had his fair share of struggles (as can be expected from a rookie), and Fuller is playing really bad, don't you think we could've used [URL="https://twitter.com/NextGenStats/status/1407058071071997953"]last year's 3rd best slot corner by next gen stat[/URL] in the rotation ?[/quote]

Of our three who has played the worst over these first 2 games? To me it seems Jackson has been the biggest liability which is concerning as he was supposed to be the best of the three.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[QUOTE=nonniey;1291434]Of our three who has played the worst over these first 2 games? To me it seems Jackson has been the biggest liability which is concerning as he was supposed to be the best of the three.[/QUOTE]Nah Fuller and St Juste are definitely the most targeted IMO.

WJ3 was exposed on the blown coverage dropped TD, but we don't know whose responsibility it was.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=nonniey;1291434]Of our three who has played the worst over these first 2 games? To me it seems Jackson has been the biggest liability which is concerning as he was supposed to be the best of the three.[/quote]

Agree, William Jackson so far has shown me nothing worth the $$$ he’s getting. People can say Moreland wouldn’t be a factor if he was here, well he made some key plays in different games during the stretch last year. He didn’t play last weekend after he joined the Texans right before their first game.

Re: Giants postgame
 

One thing I thought I had seen live and can confirm with the All 22 is they played a bit of 5-1-5 personnel.
I actually thought JDR tried some different things to bring pressure, Lb and DB blitzes, 5 man front... execution wasn't there.

Re: Giants postgame
 

Compiling good plays from our DL, there are actually quite a lot.
In the meanwhile, here is a random example of how bad LB play can make your DBs look bad.
You watch this live and go "uh Fuller is playing too soft!". But he has the deep, it's a matter of our LBs, here Holcomb, not taking enough depth, and opening the window for the throw. From the endzone view you see it's a matter of a few inches, so a few yards up the field and it's a way more difficult throw to make.

[IMG]https://media4.giphy.com/media/nZQ532NgEnOp1UwTkH/giphy.gif[/IMG]

Re: Giants postgame
 

One thing with WJ3, and it is sonething that drives me mad. Ron has spoken frequently over the offseason about teaching WJ3 to play the position differently. It drives me nuts when a team pays a top free agent and then starts changing their technique, the very technique that got them noticed and paid in the first place. If you are going to sign a big name free agent, let him play in a way that made you give him all that money. If his style doesn't fit your scheme don't sign him. When Ron started saying this it really started to make me worry about WJ3.

One other thing, as Bostic is clearly the main culprit in coverage breakdowns, the other players have to be aware of this too, after all they study the film more than we do (I hope). I wonder whether sometimes Holcomb and co are keeping one eye on Bostics zone vecause they know he needs help and as a result not fully focusing on their assignment. On the busted coverage against the Giants Landon Collins came up to cover the TE when he should have been taking Slayton deep from WJ3, itself a questionable play call given Collins limitations.

Re: Giants postgame
 

Here's a [URL="https://twitter.com/RobinBarde/status/1439154279768465408"]compilation I made of good plays by this DL[/URL]. Too long to upload in gifs. Yes we need them to produce more, but they still made quite a lot of plays.
There's only so much they can do if guys are running wide open behind them...
Included a couple of example of good pressure but pass still completed because of bad coverage and/or really good throw.

Re: Giants postgame
 

Here's the dropped TD, definitely looks like Landon Collins had the deep center... but WJ3 still has the deep right so I don't understand why he slowed down.
[IMG]https://media1.giphy.com/media/DLnF3XxxFW3WIAM0Y2/giphy.gif?cid=790b7611fa507ee076ea3bdf02f7204b2468d42df79ff64a&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g[/IMG]

Re: Giants postgame
 

How does JDR run a a scheme that requires Landon Collins, a classic box safety, have deep coverage responsibilty?

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1291441]Here's the dropped TD, definitely looks like Landon Collins had the deep center... but WJ3 still has the deep right so I don't understand slowdown.
[IMG]https://media1.giphy.com/media/DLnF3XxxFW3WIAM0Y2/giphy.gif?cid=790b7611fa507ee076ea3bdf02f7204b2468d42df79ff64a&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g[/IMG][/quote]

How is this happening? This scheme isn’t new.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=Chico23231;1291443]How is this happening? This scheme isn’t new.[/quote]

It looks to me like poor communication, but if it happens again, that's on JDR. It looks like C2 the way WJ3 reacts, but if so why Collins came short is beyond me. If it's 2 man under, then both Collins and WJ3 screwed up. It's more likely to be Robber, but then WJ3 should be staying with the deep receiver and Collins shouldn't come up. Hence why I think its communication; one (both?) of them got the play wrong or they didn't communicate with each other to confirm the coverage responsibilities.

Re: Giants postgame
 

It is still early and I trust THIS coaching staff to fix/coach the shit out it.
After giving it some thought two things stand out:
1) Rookies and new players in key positions. They need time to adjust. However I know this staff will bench but not give up anyone that takes too long to develop. That is good.
2) #26. I do not like him. Expensive and one dimensional. If his cap cut number wasn’t so high he would be gone. Why would we want a safety that is not very good in coverage? We need to develop his replacement now or move Curl to SS and bring in another FS. #26 will be gone next year unless he take a big pay cut. He is a liability.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=Defensewins;1291445]It is still early and I trust THIS coaching staff to fix/coach the shit out it.
After giving it some thought two things stand out:
1) Rookies and new players in key positions. They need time to adjust. However I know this staff will bench but not give up anyone that takes too long to develop. That is good.
2) #26. I do not like him. Expensive and one dimensional. If his cap cut number wasn’t so high he would be gone. Why would we want a safety that is not very good in coverage? We need to develop his replacement now or move Curl to SS and bring in another FS. #26 will be gone next year unless he take a big pay cut. He is a liability.[/quote]

Agree, Collins need to go after the season. He seems like a peg in a square hole defense. Ron has constantly said we need position flexibility especially in the secondary. Collins seems to be the most expensive, least flexible position on the team.

He is not a fit here

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;1291444]It looks to me like poor communication, but if it happens again, that's on JDR. It looks like C2 the way WJ3 reacts, but if so why Collins came short is beyond me. If it's 2 man under, then both Collins and WJ3 screwed up. It's more likely to be Robber, but then WJ3 should be staying with the deep receiver and Collins shouldn't come up. Hence why I think its communication; one (both?) of them got the play wrong or they didn't communicate with each other to confirm the coverage responsibilities.[/quote]

Good take. I thought it could simply be cover 3, with Landon effin up by wanting to make a play on the in route. Still would see no reason for WJ3 to slow down... Has anything been asked to/said by Ron and/or JDR on this one ?

Re: Giants postgame
 

I just don't understand why they keep putting Collins out there. Enough is enough. Start Curl in his place. He's a vet and makes free agent rookie mistakes. It is just inexcusable. That play where he went for the fullback and then got outran by Jones was it for me. No more. He sucked before he got hurt and nothing has changed. The guy isn't an NFL safety and is a liability.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1291447]Agree, Collins need to go after the season. He seems like a peg in a square hole defense. Ron has constantly said we need position flexibility especially in the secondary. Collins seems to be the most expensive, least flexible position on the team.

[B]He is not a fit here[/QUOT[/B]E]

He isn't a fit anywhere if you ask me....lol.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1291449]Good take. I thought it could simply be cover 3, with Landon effin up by wanting to make a play on the in route. Still would see no reason for WJ3 to slow down... Has anything been asked to/said by Ron and/or JDR on this one ?[/quote]

Nothing I've seen. I don't think it was C3, WJ3 would have kept dropping while the S's rotated (Fuller? on the right of the D stayed short with his man and the slot/LB coverage was definitely man). The more I look at it the more I think this is on both Collins and WJ3. Everyone else seemed to stick to their assignments.

Re: Giants postgame
 

What frustrates me are the big plays we gave up. Jones and Barkley had 2 runs totaling 87 yards. All of the Giants other rushing plays netted only 73 yards combined - less than 3 Yards per carry.

Likewise the deep ball to Slayton for a 33 yard td (and almost another) we’re badly blown coverages.

They have to clean this up - heck, take away those 3 plays, and the Giants offense would have looked pretty pathetic - it would have been only 270 yards of total offense - less than 200 yards passing and less than 75 yards rushing. And they were just bad breakdowns, not 1 on 1 matchup wins that one schemes for.

A better team than the Giants (say, the Bills) will do a better job exploiting these breakdowns and kill us if they don’t clean them up and fast.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=calia;1291456]What frustrates me are the big plays we gave up. Jones and Barkley had 2 runs totaling 87 yards. All of the Giants other rushing plays netted only 73 yards combined - less than 3 Yards per carry.

Likewise the deep ball to Slayton for a 33 yard td (and almost another) we’re badly blown coverages.

They have to clean this up - heck, take away those 3 plays, and the Giants offense would have looked pretty pathetic - it would have been only 270 yards of total offense - less than 200 yards passing and less than 75 yards rushing. And they were just bad breakdowns, not 1 on 1 matchup wins that one schemes for.

A better team than the Giants (say, the Bills) will do a better job exploiting these breakdowns and kill us if they don’t clean them up and fast.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

Our weakness in defending running QB's and those pass plays is the LB's (S's helping LB's instead of covering their own responsibility). I'm hoping Davis steps up sooner than later, but he's shown hints of capability (he had one lovely play in coverage vs the Giants). But Bostic is a liability until he does. I agree, KJ Wright may have made a difference to this LB corps, and I'd like to know why we didn't at least try to get him.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=AnonEmouse;1291454]Nothing I've seen. I don't think it was C3, WJ3 would have kept dropping while the S's rotated (Fuller? on the right of the D stayed short with his man and the slot/LB coverage was definitely man). The more I look at it the more I think this is on both Collins and WJ3. Everyone else seemed to stick to their assignments.[/quote]

[URL="https://twitter.com/MarkBullockNFL/status/1439375463256936449"]Mark Bullock says quarter/quarter/half,[/URL] good route combination against this coverage.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1291460][URL="https://twitter.com/MarkBullockNFL/status/1439375463256936449"]Mark Bullock says quarter/quarter/half,[/URL] good route combination against this coverage.[/quote]

Then arguably they both blew it, but more so WJ3, as he should have kept going deep regardless (no underneath threat to his zone). Collins didn't trust the LB to cover, so came up early. Should have read the QB, but likely also trusted WJ3 to stay on his man. Not that WJ3 could have because he'd lost leverage anyway. Lucky not to be a TD, which it would have been had Jones made a better throw.

I do wonder if they are misusing WJ3. Seems to be much more comfortable in true man coverage, as does St Juste. I know you have to mix coverages, but why use coverages that suit neither your CB's or the SS?

Re: Giants postgame
 

[QUOTE=AnonEmouse;1291465]Then arguably they both blew it, but more so WJ3, as he should have kept going deep regardless (no underneath threat to his zone). Collins didn't trust the LB to cover, so came up early. Should have read the QB, but likely also trusted WJ3 to stay on his man. Not that WJ3 could have because he'd lost leverage anyway. Lucky not to be a TD, which it would have been had Jones made a better throw.



I do wonder if they are misusing WJ3. Seems to be much more comfortable in true man coverage, as does St Juste. I know you have to mix coverages, but why use coverages that suit neither your CB's or the SS?[/QUOTE]This is why I think the D will get better. Del Rio will adjust to his personnel whereas training camp and preseason is trying to get them comfortable in his. That said, the Bills are going to eat this Defense alive.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: Giants postgame
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1291526]This is why I think the D will get better. Del Rio will adjust to his personnel whereas training camp and preseason is trying to get them comfortable in his. That said, the Bills are going to eat this Defense alive.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]I actually don't know if Ron and JDR are gonna change anything to their scheme. I heard Ron several times saying how he needs guys to play their responsibilities. That guys were free lancing. And maybe he's right (ie on the CB blitz sack by Fuller, CY almost tripped him because he wanted to make a play instead of going inside on the LT to clean the way). Plus he said from day want he wanted things done his way, that he'll take all the blame if it goes wrong as long as guys do it his way. Coach centric approach.
And Jack seems like a tough mind too, so not sure either of them changes anything before players do exactly as their told.
Maybe it'll work that way, we'll see.

Envoyé de mon SHV48 en utilisant Tapatalk

Re: Giants postgame
 

[QUOTE=FrenchSkin;1291550]I actually don't know if Ron and JDR are gonna change anything to their scheme. I heard Ron several times saying how he needs guys to play their responsibilities. That guys were free lancing. And maybe he's right (ie on the CB blitz sack by Fuller, CY almost tripped him because he wanted to make a play instead of going inside on the LT to clean the way). Plus he said from day want he wanted things done his way, that he'll take all the blame if it goes wrong as long as guys do it his way. Coach centric approach.
And Jack seems like a tough mind too, so not sure either of them changes anything before players do exactly as their told.
Maybe it'll work that way, we'll see.

Envoyé de mon SHV48 en utilisant Tapatalk[/QUOTE]Yeah, you are right. But I do think they will use the game tape to clarify expectations and roles. I also think they have to have some level of adaptability on the coaching side, but like you said, they may not have that.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Re: Giants postgame
 

On either side of the ball, the way to coach is to bring in players that fit/improve your scheme, or build a scheme that caters to the strengths of your players. Seems this coaching staff has been trying the former as I haven't seen a great deal of adapting schemes over the last 2 years. It seems more like they are trying to build sustainable schemes and picking the players accordingly. But then they have gone after or retained the odd player that doesn't seem, to fit the scheme, like Collins. I'm not sure WJ3 is one of those guys yet, or if its teething troubles with new starters on D not yet gelling. But it needs fixing quickly.

Strangely enough, it seems like after 2 games its the D that needs more fixing than the O (thought that still needs work).

Re: Giants postgame
 

When it comes to our defense, it does have the ability to get better, but we need to move some pieces around.

Going into the off-season, most here correctly observed we needed a rangy free safety and more talent at LB.

We have the cap space. I don’t the new front office did a good job, hopefully they will prove me wrong by years end.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1291550]I actually don't know if Ron and JDR are gonna change anything to their scheme. I heard Ron several times saying how he needs guys to play their responsibilities. That guys were free lancing. And maybe he's right (ie on the CB blitz sack by Fuller, CY almost tripped him because he wanted to make a play instead of going inside on the LT to clean the way). Plus he said from day want he wanted things done his way, that he'll take all the blame if it goes wrong as long as guys do it his way. Coach centric approach.
And Jack seems like a tough mind too, so not sure either of them changes anything before players do exactly as their told.
Maybe it'll work that way, we'll see.

Envoyé de mon SHV48 en utilisant Tapatalk[/quote]

Do your job. Collins hasn't done his job since he has been here. And then watching him get out ran by Jones is laughable.

As far as Del Rio idk, when it is 3rd and 16 and you haven't been getting pressure all day I feel like you have to send a blitz, get Herbert to throw it quickly and make a tackle. Instead he rushed 4 and let Herbert pat the ball and make an accurate throw, while the db's looked lost in zone.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=Chico23231;1291447]Agree, Collins need to go after the season. He seems like a peg in a square hole defense. Ron has constantly said we need position flexibility especially in the secondary. Collins seems to be the most expensive, least flexible position on the team.

He is not a fit here[/quote]

It is frustrating. Especially after hearing about how the coaching staff wanted to use him in the hybrid format in the offseason. I liked the idea of him replacing a linebacker in pass coverage. We have yet to see it manifest.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;1291572]It is frustrating. Especially after hearing about how the coaching staff wanted to use him in the hybrid format in the offseason. I liked the idea of him replacing a linebacker in pass coverage. We have yet to see it manifest.[/quote]

The obvious question to me no one is asking…is he the guy causing the problems in the secondary right now?

Seems like the secondary wasn’t having these problems last year

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=Chico23231;1291574]The obvious question to me no one is asking…is he the guy causing the problems in the secondary right now?

Seems like the secondary wasn’t having these problems last year[/quote]

Well there are two new CBs in the there this year, one of whom is a rookie and the other being asked to modify the way he plays. But I think it is also not a coincidence that things tightened up last year after he got injured, when Kurl became the full time SS.

Bostic is the obvious sore thumb here, question is how many other guys are not paying full attention to their responsibility to keep pan eye on Bostic. If you look at the blown play the TE blew past Bostic and Collins came down to cover him. It has been a point of emphasis from the coaches about taking care of your job and not always trying to be the guy who makes the play. I think too many guys may be pressing too hard to make plays, Chase Young in particular, and the whole scheme falls apart when that happens

Re: Giants postgame
 

I think the secondary is probably still figuring out how to play together. There's four dudes taking significant snaps who weren't here either all of last year, or most of last year - Collins, WJ3, St-Juste, and McCain. I gotta believe things will improve as they log more time together.

Re: Giants postgame
 

[quote=EdmundDorf;1291575]Well there are two new CBs in the there this year, one of whom is a rookie and the other being asked to modify the way he plays. But I think it is also not a coincidence that things tightened up last year after he got injured, when Kurl became the full time SS.

Bostic is the obvious sore thumb here, question is how many other guys are not paying full attention to their responsibility to keep pan eye on Bostic. If you look at the blown play the TE blew past Bostic and Collins came down to cover him. It has been a point of emphasis from the coaches about taking care of your job and not always trying to be the guy who makes the play. I think too many guys may be pressing too hard to make plays, Chase Young in particular, and the who scheme falls apart when that happens[/quote]

Good points…yeah, i thought last year when Collins left the field the play in the secondary improved.

Ron’s love of Bostic is hurting this team