Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]and why did Brunell deserve 10 games worth of mistakes, but Ramsey less than a quarter?[/QUOTE]

Easy, Ramsey isn't Gibbs' boy; Brunell unfortunately is.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]quoting myself here



and why did Brunell deserve 10 games worth of mistakes, but Ramsey less than a quarter?[/QUOTE]

Thats all I want to know. I have felt ever since week 2 of last season, that Ramsey was the better QB. I still think that, although Ramsey isnt as good as I thought he was back then. However, I think Gibbs is making a huge mistake turning his back on a guy (which is what he is doing) after 1 quarter. Its not like Brunell went out and threw for 200 yards and 3 tds. He went out and threw for 70 yards and thats it. I think this might cause alot of players in the locker room to really start to question Gibbs.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=SUNRA]The velocity on his ball has been better than Ramsey's since preseason. How many times did Ramsey underthrow Santana Moss and every other WR in preseason? Give me something tangible that would indicate why Ramsey should be a starting QB anywhere in the NFL. More INT than TDs will not get it done.[/QUOTE]

it's official. last season just did not happen and Skins fans are just as only-the-last-play short term memory as Philly fans.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=SUNRA]The velocity on his ball has been better than Ramsey's since preseason. How many times did Ramsey underthrow Santana Moss and every other WR in preseason? Give me something tangible that would indicate why Ramsey should be a starting QB anywhere in the NFL. More INT than TDs will not get it done.[/QUOTE]

Ramsey's Career: 33 TD's, 29 INT's...

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

Gibbs was a lil worried during the preseason and the first drive confirmed his suspicions. And y'all are forgetting Ramsey did get a pretty hard hit.

I don't think Gibbs wants to make last years mistake. As odd as that sounds....he wants to have a stable quarterback.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=jdlea]Ramsey's Career: 33 TD's, 29 INT's...[/QUOTE]

Those figures also don't account for two hail mary's that resulted in INTs that Ramsey threw in relief performances with less than 10 seconds before the half/end of the game.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=Gmanc711]Until Brunell puts together a string of 3 games where he can move the ball down the feild, I'm going to remain very skeptical. If he plays great on Monday night, thats awsome! But he played great on Monday night last year. I wont be convinced until he consistently moves our offense. 70 yards in 3 quarters yesterday isnt exactly making me do flips.[/QUOTE]

Two key things that will make Brunell more successful than last year.

I really think Santana Moss is going to make a difference as far as strecthing the field and Brunell connecting with him and Cooley on a regular basis.

This is about QB efficiency. I think Brunell can reduce the risk of a turnover when throwing the deep pass. That ball was there for Moss when the pass interference call was made against the Chicago CB. Lets hope Jansen, Samuels, Dockery and Thomas can keep Demarcus Ware out of our backfield.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=Redskins88]Gibbs was a lil worried during the preseason and the first drive confirmed his suspicions. And y'all are forgetting Ramsey did get a pretty hard hit.

I don't think Gibbs wants to make last years mistake. As odd as that sounds....he wants to have a stable quarterback.[/QUOTE]

i'm sorry but the *first drive of the regular season* can't tell anyone anything. on the other hand, 10 games last season could, and it told Gibbs Brunell was stable and to try again? you're right, that does sound odd.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=SUNRA] This is about QB efficiency. I think Brunell can reduce the risk of a turnover when throwing the deep pass. That ball was there for Moss when the pass interference call was made against the Chicago CB. Lets hope Jansen, Samuels, Dockery and Thomas can keep Demarcus Ware out of our backfield.[/QUOTE]

when have you ever seen Brunell make deep passes as a Redskin?

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=SUNRA]Two key things that will make Brunell more successful than last year.

I really think Santana Moss is going to make a difference as far as strecthing the field and Brunell connecting with him and Cooley on a regular basis.

This is about QB efficiency. I think Brunell can reduce the risk of a turnover when throwing the deep pass. That ball was there for Moss when the pass interference call was made against the Chicago CB. Lets hope Jansen, Samuels, Dockery and Thomas can keep Demarcus Ware out of our backfield.[/QUOTE]

Do you actually think Brunell stretches the field? Moss might stretch the field with other quarterbacks, but not with Brunell.

Is the talk about the o-line an insurance policy you're taking out in case Brunell stinks? I don't see you blaming the o-line for letting Ramsey get drilled a couple times as soon as he took the ball. Double-standard perhaps?

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=jdlea]Ramsey's Career: 33 TD's, 29 INT's...[/QUOTE]

33 TD'S, 29 INTS... That's tangible to be in the NFL? Not even NFL Europe.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

One thing no one is talking about in here is how the rest of the team will take this. I thought that I read that Ramsey was very well liked by his teamates. If they think that he got a bum rap and not a full chance, they'll lose repsect for Gibbs. Heck I've lost a bit of repect fo him. Its a damn bad sign if you've got a QB controversy before week 2. As soon as they drafted Campbell I knew this would happen. Remember those Wayne Fronts' Lions where no one would know who of their 3 QBs would start week to week.

Thing is I don't know if we have seen Ramsey's best football, but we have seen the most that Brunell is capable of and it does NOT impress me. I'd say with Brunell the Skins are no better then a 7-9 team.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

You said more INT's than TD's, that's wrong. That's all I pointed out.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=SUNRA]33 TD'S, 29 INTS... That's tangible to be in the NFL? Not even NFL Europe.[/QUOTE]

SUNRA,

I'm just curious why you are so hard on Ramsey, but back Brunell at every turn. I defended Brunell last night when people were arguing that Brunell's INT (that was called back) was not his fault. I have yet to see you defend Ramsey in any situation. I know everyone likes to use hyperbole to simplifications to make a point (as I sometimes do), but do you really think the QB debate is as cut and dry as it is being made out to be? If you have that much confidence in Brunell, I just don't understand where it was coming from last season or this season.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

7-6 last year for Brunell. That was 9 damn games. Look forward to more of the same.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=SUNRA]33 TD'S, 29 INTS... That's tangible to be in the NFL? Not even NFL Europe.[/QUOTE]

again, what's tangible about Brunell completing deep?

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=SUNRA]33 TD'S, 29 INTS... That's tangible to be in the NFL? Not even NFL Europe.[/QUOTE]

Those are also better numbers than Harrington's, Boller's or Carr's. I guess you think the Texans should cut Carr? I guess patience is not one of our team's greatest attributes.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

Brunell's first 2 years as a starter...he actually started, he didn't get yanked in and out, change recievers every year or switch systems. Brunell went: 34 and 27, that's 1 TD and 2 picks better than Ramsey...light him up.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=GoSkins!]Ramsey may still be the man, but he needs to cut out the mistakes or he may never start for the skins again. I would also be surprised to see Brown back on kickoffs at first on Monday.

The first warning was verbal.
The second warning is a benching.
The third warning... may not be a warning.[/QUOTE]

That's classic Coach Gibbs right there.

I love Ramsey so I hope he gets to be happy. But he was making WAY too many mistakes for us to win Football games. And winning is the only thing that really matters in Football. Ramsey isn't the guy that will get us to the Superbowl... not after Spurrier left him out to dry to let him get his brains/nervous system beat sensless. He's just not the same QB after that.

I hope he gets what he wants to be happy, but I can't see any other NFL team (MAYBE Cleveland or Miami) wanting to start him. Wich is really what he wants... to start. So basically a trade would be pointless anyway.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[quote]This thread is crackin' me up! Whoever said Redskins fans are fickled...LOL!!!![/quote]
Whose fickle? I believe the consensus on this site was to see Ramsey this season. Has he been a little shakey? A little bit, but he has the arm to back off defenders. The one fumble he had shouldnt have been one. It should have been a 15 yard penelty against them and I cant blame him for dropping it on that. The INT was a bad play, but you're going to get that with Ramsey. With our defense and our division, I'd rather move the ball, rest our defense, and put some points up rather than just bumble around with 2 yard completions and wear our defense out.

Also, Jrocx - Who the fuck are you to deny people of their opinions. You know what, no one has the qualifications here of Gibbs, but there are people with the qualifications questioning him the same way we are. What do you say to them? Let's all just agree and blindly follow Gibbs because hey, he's won superbowls. That's absolutely crazy and if that's the way you live your life -- following people who were previously successfull -- I'm sorry for you. Why don't you offer MC Hammer a recording contract, he won a Grammy back in the day. Doesn't he deserve respect for that?

To all those saying Ramsey is hurt -- bullshit. he was cleared by a doctor before halftime saying he was fine. He's fine now.

If you think Brunell should be starting, then fine, make that point and defend it, which I have yet to see you do in a realistic manor.

If Ramsey wants to be traded I can't blame him. I'd be so absolutely pissed right now it's not even funny. Ramsey hasnt gotten a chance in the NFL really yet.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

Here's one you guys can add to the stock pile:

I [B]guarantee[/B] Mark Brunell never wins or plays in a Super Bowl for the Redskins. I'll be surprised if he plays in a playoff game for this team.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=Hijinx]One thing no one is talking about in here is how the rest of the team will take this. I thought that I read that Ramsey was very well liked by his teamates. If they think that he got a bum rap and not a full chance, they'll lose repsect for Gibbs. [/QUOTE]

That's the only thing that really worries me about the situation. Especially since I know Jon Jansen is best friends with him.

My thought is they'll get over it though.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

Jon Jansen should be apologizing because it's all his fault. If he had picked up Briggs or even picked up a penalty by tripping Briggs, Ramsey never goes down and Gibbs doesn't get a look at Brunell....J/K

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

I think they are going to interview ramsey and brunell after the MNF game on ABC if anyone wants to watch. I know I do.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=VishsSkins]I think they are going to interview ramsey and brunell after the MNF game on ABC if anyone wants to watch. I know I do.[/QUOTE]

oh snap, heck yeah I want to see that. I wonder if Ramsey will gaive the standard, "best for the team" quote.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

I'm not going to lie, I've been a Brunell fan for years. Since back in his Jaguars days. So I'm probably a bit biased here.

That doesn't mean I can't like Ramsey as well. And I'll admit that one reason I really started rooting for Ramsey last year wasn't so much of him but Skinz_Domin8. Sigh, you guys remember him, right? Former Warpath user who was such an ass to everyone here and was so idiotic in his anti-Ramsey bashing that I rooted for Ramsey just to spite Domin8. Petty, I know.

But what I don't get is what does Gibbs really owe Ramsey? I mean, why should he have given him a chance in the first place? Gibbs was brought back to restore the team to the glory it last enjoyed under Gibbs' first tenure, with or without Ramsey. I know, I know-if we don't question Gibbs then why have this board-but as cruel as it may sound, Gibbs really doesn't owe Ramsey anything.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]SUNRA,

I'm just curious why you are so hard on Ramsey, but back Brunell at every turn. I defended Brunell last night when people were arguing that Brunell's INT (that was called back) was not his fault. I have yet to see you defend Ramsey in any situation. I know everyone likes to use hyperbole to simplifications to make a point (as I sometimes do), but do you really think the QB debate is as cut and dry as it is being made out to be? If you have that much confidence in Brunell, I just don't understand where it was coming from last season or this season.[/QUOTE

Joe Gibbs has more experience in developing a QB into his system and winning as you know with three different QBS. This was what he is best known for. 2 out of the 3 QB's were MVP's of the Superbowl. Now if I understand and respect Gibbs's success in this area, why should I waste time defending a QB who hasn't played an entire season. It's not his fault, but that's the baggage he carries and he seems to have not learned anything from his past mistakes. Holding on the ball too long, taking the sack instead of throwing the ball away. No understanding of reading defenses which led to him audiblizing so much that it became a hindrance to the offense and his ability to lead the team with confidence. Some QBs have it and more than enough don't. The way Gibbs sees it, Ramsey just doesn't have it. I have been a Redskins fan for over 30 years, I think I know a mentally sound and physically gifted QB when I see won. I watched one last night, dismantle a Ravens defense.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]But what I don't get is what does Gibbs really owe Ramsey? I mean, why should he have given him a chance in the first place? Gibbs was brought back to restore the team to the glory it last enjoyed under Gibbs' first tenure, with or without Ramsey. I know, I know-if we don't question Gibbs then why have this board-but as cruel as it may sound, Gibbs really doesn't owe Ramsey anything.[/QUOTE]

i feel the franchise owes Ramsey but all the franchise BS he's been through aside, the team itself deserves to have the guy they trained with all offseason behind center. not the old guy with no reps this season and had his chances already and gave us 6-10.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=jdlea]Here's one you guys can add to the stock pile:

I [B]guarantee[/B] Mark Brunell never wins or plays in a Super Bowl for the Redskins. I'll be surprised if he plays in a playoff game for this team.[/QUOTE]

I guarantee you Mark Brunell delivers to the fans of the Washington Redskins a victory over Dallas Cowboys and solidifies his place in the Warpath Hall of Fame. Throw Brunell throw and Run Clinton Run. Redskins win this one guys.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

Okay...that's your opinion. When does he deliver a win against Dallas? This Monday? You know who the last Skins QB was to beat Dallas? Patrick Ramsey.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]
If you think Brunell should be starting, then fine, make that point and defend it, which I have yet to see you do in a realistic manor.
[/QUOTE]

First let me say that I have been a Ramsey fan since i met him at Dickenson College Coartyard at training camp his first day with the team.

But since he got his brains beat out by Spurriers lack of protection, he's not been the same. He's been figity and forcing the ball with bad decisions, not to mention he throws way off targert. Even that one big play by Santana Moss was all bye Santana. Ramsey threw it a little behind Moss, but Moss still made the play.

Now Brunell on the other hand seems to be a totaly different QB this year from what he was last year. He actually has some zip on the ball and he makes better decisions than Ramsey. He doesn't try to force things, plus his mobility keeps the defenses honest. They don't go blitz crazy like they do with Ramsey who basically always stays in one spot.

Brunell seems much improved this year. He looks more like his old Pro Bowl self from Jacksonville when he took them to the 2 Championship games. And I think he'll do the same for us this year after seeing his improvement. He seems like he's in much better shape this year. He can run better and he seems to have a much stronger arm then he did last year.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]

But what I don't get is what does Gibbs really owe Ramsey? I mean, why should he have given him a chance in the first place? Gibbs was brought back to restore the team to the glory it last enjoyed under Gibbs' first tenure, with or without Ramsey. I know, I know-if we don't question Gibbs then why have this board-but as cruel as it may sound, Gibbs really doesn't owe Ramsey anything.[/QUOTE]

He owes him exactly what he provided Brunell with. He didnt have to make him the starter, right. He did though. So why did he owe Brunell 9 weeks to f*ck things up, and he only gave Ramsey a quarter in which he didnt even play bad?

Bottom line, I think Gibbs is just looking for reasons to let Brunell play so that he can hopefully turn things around, and make Gibbs look good for picking him up in the first place.

The only things Joe Gibbs needs to worry about is winning football games. I dont care if he puts Osama Bin Laden behind center, he should be winning football games. I just dont understand why everyone thinks Mark Brunell was so good, or is going to be any better. He dosent look THAT good. He only threw for 70 yards yesterday. He looks NOTHING, ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING like he was in Jacksonville. When he was with the Jags, he could take games over and win them by himself, he was a manic. Lets not kid ourselves, he looks nothing like he used too. At this point, neither of these guys is the long term awnser, but for the love of god, the kid should have had more than 20 mintues before he got pulled.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]i feel the franchise owes Ramsey but all the franchise BS he's been through aside, the team itself deserves to have the guy they trained with all offseason behind center. not the old guy with no reps this season and had his chances already and gave us 6-10.[/QUOTE]

So Ramsey gets one, two, three, (and so on) chances but Brunell gets just one?

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=SUNRA]
It's not his fault, but that's the baggage he carries and he seems to have not learned anything from his past mistakes. Holding on the ball too long, taking the sack instead of throwing the ball away. No understanding of reading defenses which led to him audiblizing so much that it became a hindrance to the offense and his ability to lead the team with confidence. Some QBs have it and more than enough don't. The way Gibbs sees it, Ramsey just doesn't have it. I have been a Redskins fan for over 30 years, I think I know a mentally sound and physically gifted QB when I see won. I watched one last night, dismantle a Ravens defense.[/QUOTE]

how can you keep ignoring what Brunell and Ramsey did last year? why does this year's preseason and 3 drives count and determine their abilities but not *all of last season*?

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Those are also better numbers than Harrington's, Boller's or Carr's. I guess you think the Texans should cut Carr? I guess patience is not one of our team's greatest attributes.[/QUOTE]

This is actually a really good point I thought of earlier this evening. Ramsey has actually shown more than either of the guys taken before him.

For some reason, Gibbs' just hasn't been sold on him. I think it is a very instinctive thing and for whatever reason, Gibbs' doesn't think this is his guy.

On the bright side, I think there has to be at least one team out there with a GM who thinks Ramsey can be the man, so hopefully we can deal him after this season for something.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]So Ramsey gets one, two, three, (and so on) chances but Brunell gets just one?[/QUOTE]

three what? drives?? i hope you don't mean seasons, because if Brunell played under Spurrier he would be retired and in the booth next to Aikman right now.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

All I know is as much as I like Ramsey, if we win on Monday, it's all for moot. Just like anyone here, Gibbs and the Skins want to win. If that means Brunell, Ramsey, Rypien, Williams, Thiesman... you get the picture.

I can understand if Ramsey is upset, I probably would be too, but I am sure he see's his stats, his INTs vs TDs, the score at the end of Bears game, his win loss record, and understands.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]So Ramsey gets one, two, three, (and so on) chances but Brunell gets just one?[/QUOTE]

Tafkas, I hope you know me (via online) well enough not to take this personally....but you have to be kididng me. Brunell gets just one chance??? BRUNELL GETS JUST ONE CHANCE???? He had 9 horrific games last season, each one, Redskins fans everywhere wanted to put rail road spikes through their eyes it was so bad. Common, Brunell has has 10x the chances Ramsey has here in DC.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

By the way, we're leading in our division in week one. Philly just lost. 14-10. Lets go Skins its our year.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded
 

[QUOTE=Gmanc711]He owes him exactly what he provided Brunell with. He didnt have to make him the starter, right. He did though. So why did he owe Brunell 9 weeks to f*ck things up, and he only gave Ramsey a quarter in which he didnt even play bad?

Bottom line, I think Gibbs is just looking for reasons to let Brunell play so that he can hopefully turn things around, and make Gibbs look good for picking him up in the first place.

The only things Joe Gibbs needs to worry about is winning football games. I dont care if he puts Osama Bin Laden behind center, he should be winning football games. I just dont understand why everyone thinks Mark Brunell was so good, or is going to be any better. He dosent look THAT good. He only threw for 70 yards yesterday. At this point, neither of these guys is the long term awnser, but for the love of god, the kid should have had more than 20 mintues before he got pulled.[/QUOTE]

But that's the thing. Gibbs was brought in to restore the team to glory. It's not unlike when a new team owner buys a struggling team. And the owner says "I want my staff here" So he brings in the general manager he wants. The GM then brings in the coach he wants. The coach brings in his QB. There has to be a reason that when presented with his roster when he agreed to coach the team again Gibbs decided to go after another QB, and he was never obliged to hold onto Ramsey. Was he?

I don't know. I just don't get why every one thinks Brunell starting is a sign of the apocalypse