Commanders Post at The Warpath

Commanders Post at The Warpath (http://www.thewarpath.net/forum.php)

- Debating with the enemy (http://www.thewarpath.net/forumdisplay.php?f=75)

- - Obama Care (http://www.thewarpath.net/showthread.php?t=30288)

[quote=GusFrerotte;677112]Tax increases without massive spending decreases won't help one bit with being fiscally responsible since the spending will of course more than likely still outstrip revenue. Lower taxes and lower spending is the only way to go to get our house in order.[/quote]
Trust me , I'm for lower taxes / flat tax .... and much less Gov't spending . Until Our gov't < R's and D's > stop spending and printing our money to buy thier seats .... we are gonna get screwed , again sadly .

[quote=saden1;677118]Care to qualify by any means necessary?[/quote]Short of sending out Luca Brasi (as far as we know) or direct violation of any laws (pending the legal challenges forthcoming on the Health Care bill) my statement is pretty self-explanatory.

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;677133]Short of sending out Luca Brasi (as far as we know) or direct violation of any laws (pending the legal challenges forthcoming on the Health Care bill) my statement is pretty self-explanatory.[/quote]

I don't understand why people are so afraid of the word socialism. We're not in the 1960s and the Reds aren't coming to get us. Sometimes I feel that the words socialism is thrown around the same as terrorism. People forget that the New Deal was a form of socialism for example, and I don't think anyone was out for FDR's head when it happened...well some people were.

[quote=mredskins;677167]Obviously, you have not seen Rocky IV.[/quote]

Good one.

[quote=mredskins;677167]Obviously, you have not seen Rocky IV.[/quote]

:laughing2

"I must break you"

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;677079]By no means is Pelosi incompetent. She's pushing forward her and the [B]left's agenda to move the U.S. towards Euorpean socialism[/B], by any means necessary.[/quote]

Unfortunately that is not true.

In a way, the Republicans share much of the blame here. Certainly not on this particular vote, as they all voted against it. But think back to when the GOP had control of the House, the Senate and the Presidency. How hard did they fight for Tort Reform? For allowing the purchase of health insurance plans across state lines? For dismantling some of the insane mandates that do nothing but hike the costs?

Nope. The Republicans didn't do any of that -- in fact, they did much worse. They added an unconstitutional, outrageously expensive entitlement of their very own! I'm speaking of the Medicare Prescription Drug Modernization and Improvement Act of 2003.

You have to hand it to the Democrats. When it comes to advancing their agenda, they are much more tenacious than the GOP has ever been. When was the last time the Republicans enacted major legislation that empowers the free market, the individual, that advances capitalism? Apart from some tax cuts here and there, I can't think of any.

As the saying goes, no matter who you vote for, government always gets elected.

[quote=Beemnseven;677202][B]In a way, the Republicans share much of the blame here. Certainly not on this particular vote, as they all voted against it. But think back to when the GOP had control of the House, the Senate and the Presidency. How hard did they fight for Tort Reform? For allowing the purchase of health insurance plans across state lines? For dismantling some of the insane mandates that do nothing but hike the costs?

Nope. The Republicans didn't do any of that[/B] -- in fact, they did much worse. They added an unconstitutional, outrageously expensive entitlement of their very own! I'm speaking of the Medicare Prescription Drug Modernization and Improvement Act of 2003.

You have to hand it to the Democrats. When it comes to advancing their agenda, they are much more tenacious than the GOP has ever been. When was the last time the Republicans enacted major legislation that empowers the free market, the individual, that advances capitalism? Apart from some tax cuts here and there, I can't think of any.

As the saying goes, no matter who you vote for, government always gets elected.[/quote]

Yup. Rather than attack the flawed structure to limit costs, the Republicans just opted for a strategy of obstructionism. With no real alternative presented, and with a feeling of pervasive feeling that "something needed to be done", we got this horrible bill that merely perpetuates and expands the pre-existing flaws.

Maybe the arguement has already been made and I have not seen it but "Socialized Health Care" is crap.

I was informed that medical costs will be different for each class of people meaning that if some one needed an x-ray ... one persons cost might be $50.00 and another persons might be $400.00 depending on what you earn. Some people might not have to pay a dime cause they don't make any money. Basically put those paying $400 are covering for those who can't pay for their x-rays.

Secondly, before anyone goes off taling about how this is awsome and will help people please go and talk to the Canadians about their "Socialized Health Care" before you go and praise this move. Almost everyone in health care now knows this is bad. I've heard of Canadians having to come to the U.S. to get treatment cause they can't get it up in Canada. I've heard that their specialized doctors only work 3-4 months out of the year and take the rest of the year off. If you can't get in to the a heart specialist with in his 3-4 months your screwed. You either wait the rest of the year out or find another doctor.

Third, I've heard from several people in the medical field and if the Gov. is going socialized that means there will be a cap on cost. Yes that's good but if your a student doctor looking at thousands of dollars in student loans and don't make the money to pay off your loans each year due to the cap cost your screwed. As well as the public who will see less and less doctors coming out of college each year because they are not making enough money to pay their college expenses.

Fourth, Supposedly there's a rule packaged into this health package that states you can only visit your doctor so many times a year.

I agree medical costs have gotten out of hand but their has to be another way to fix this mess vs. "Socialized Health Care." I think the only people who see this as a plus are those who's jobs don't provide health care or the jobless people. They should have provided something through the Social Services Department that would suppliment peoples medical insurance costs or outright pay for it. Now people won't have a reason to work.... free food stamps, free health care, free housing. Hell I might quit work.

EDIT: I hope this issue gets canned by the Senate. If you guys want to talk "Flat tax" I'm all for it but Gov. getting involved in our health care is bad.

[quote=Ruhskins;677153]I don't understand why people are so afraid of the word socialism. We're not in the 1960s and the Reds aren't coming to get us. Sometimes I feel that the words socialism is thrown around the same as terrorism. People forget that the New Deal was a form of socialism for example, and I don't think anyone was out for FDR's head when it happened...well some people were.[/quote]

Basically because this country was founded on Freedom. Ever since the civil war when the south was not allowed to leave the Union, which was their right that was written into law, Gov. has been widdling away our rights. Widdling away at our freedoms. Under our last President our Gov. passed a law allowing Gov. agencies to wire tap more easily without having to go through all the safety measures to ensure big government was not tresspassing on our rights.

I for one can't understand why anyone would want the government running every aspect of your life but if you do please move. Stop trying to change my government if it doesn't suit you. Move to Russia or Romania or France or Canada if those things interest you. I'm happy with my government's limited reach into my personal life.

On a side note, Just like if you don't like whats on the radio or tv.... fricken change the channel. No need to police the airwaves for me screwing over my right to listen or watch whatever I want because you can't police your self or your child. Just because something offends one person doesn't mean it offends all.

Instead of socializing medicine how about we socialize law? I'd much rather see a cap on how much lawyer's can earn or that lawyers couldn't refuse to defend a client and if you don't make any money you don't pay. If you make a ton of money then you pay a ton of money to make up for the rest of us. ;)

Let the games begin.