Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=MTK;1252427]You really want to die on this hill that the President threatening military force against our own people is ok? Tear gassing citizens on his way to an asinine photo op is ok?[/quote]

Yes he will , chico will try to spin it off topic on to something else becuase what trump did is undefendable.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[QUOTE=Buffalo Bob;1252458]This is just as disgusting as George Floyd and then some as there were more participants.

[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Kelly_Thomas[/URL]

There were only a handful of local protests. That is the town I went to High School in. I don't remember this getting much coverage as the victim was a small white homeless man. Most bad cops are equal opportunity victimizers but if it happens to a minority every Democrat immediately screams racism.

I always wonder what the root cause of bad cops is. Is it the type of person attracted to the job or does the job turn good people bad?[/QUOTE]


Probably some of both. Cops generally don’t make a ton of money, but it’s something you can get without higher education and you get to carry a gun and boss people around. That’s going to attract a lot of stupid, ignorant people who want power.

I can also see many good well meaning people being worn down by being surrounded by so many officers who fit into the previous category.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Giantone;1252467]Yes he will , chico will try to spin it off topic on to something else becuase what trump did is undefendable.[/quote]

So it seems you either are condoning looting and burning down the city or have a secret way of stopping it. Please tell, or do you just live to bad mouth everything Trump does, down to what he eats for breakfast.

Let us know what you would do with the wide spread looting and violence if you were in charge.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1252469]Probably some of both. Cops generally don’t make a ton of money, but it’s something you can get without higher education and you get to carry a gun and boss people around. That’s going to attract a lot of stupid, ignorant people who want power.
[/quote]

It depends where you work, small town police don't make squat, but with overtime cops in large cities can easily make $100k+ a year with great benefits, and pensions that can pay them up to 75% of average pay of their last 3 years of service, for life, for being on the job 25 years or more.

They make a lot more than skilled tradesman.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1252469]Probably some of both. Cops generally don’t make a ton of money, but it’s something you can get without higher education and you get to carry a gun and boss people around. That’s going to attract a lot of stupid, ignorant people who want power.

I can also see many good well meaning people being worn down by being surrounded by so many officers who fit into the previous category.
[/quote]

Your post is borderline ignorant! Many ,many Police are former Military and go to the job becuase it's been what they trained for and for many it's what they are good at skill wise , they can't determine the difference in the enemy.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1252471]So it seems you either are condoning looting and burning down the city or have a secret way of stopping it. Please tell, or do you just live to bad mouth everything Trump does, down to what he eats for breakfast.

Let us know what you would do with the wide spread looting and violence if you were in charge.[/quote]

Seriously stop being a troll. chico is just a sad trumpett but you I thought were smarter ,I was wrong. He had city Police tear gas [B]PEACEFUL PROTESTERS at a CHURCH for a PHOTO OP[/B] ........so where in the fuck do I condone looting ?

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

This might be the ultimate bullshit media narrative... that rioting now is somehow acceptable? Burning down buildings, attacking people, violence is now ok?



These are the same people that shamed folks protesting, people on a fucking beach, people not wearing mask? Get the fuck out of here.

I’m just gonna remember for the future

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

Nightline pretty much made out George Foster to be quite the outstanding human being.

From the NY Post:

Floyd had landed five years behind bars in 2009 for an assault and robbery two years earlier, and before that, had been convicted of charges ranging from theft with a firearm to drugs, the Daily Mail reported.

Yet the media makes him out to be a choir boy.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Giantone;1252474]Seriously stop being a troll. chico is just a sad trumpett but you I thought were smarter ,I was wrong. He had city Police tear gas [B]PEACEFUL PROTESTERS at a CHURCH for a PHOTO OP[/B] ........so where in the fuck do I condone looting ?[/quote]

I am troll but your obsessive Trump bashing is a perfectly normal interaction with people.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1252476]Nightline pretty much made out George Foster to be quite the outstanding human being.

From the NY Post:

Floyd had landed five years behind bars in 2009 for an assault and robbery two years earlier, and before that, had been convicted of charges ranging from theft with a firearm to drugs, the Daily Mail reported.

Yet the media makes him out to be a choir boy.[/quote]

Seems you decided to go full moron in this thread. So it seems you decided this man should die is that it,you find the actions of the Police acceptable?

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1252477]I am troll but your obsessive Trump bashing is a perfectly normal interaction with people.[/quote]

LOL, wow you've been drinking the chico water . You can not even answer to what trump did with logic or reason just attack me . I feel sad for you.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1252475]This might be the ultimate bullshit media narrative... that rioting now is somehow acceptable? Burning down buildings, attacking people, violence is now ok?



These are the same people that shamed folks protesting, people on a fucking beach, people not wearing mask? Get the fuck out of here.

I’m just gonna remember for the future[/quote]

Your media hate agenda has gone beyond reason.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1252476]Nightline pretty much made out George Foster to be quite the outstanding human being.

From the NY Post:

Floyd had landed five years behind bars in 2009 for an assault and robbery two years earlier, and before that, had been convicted of charges ranging from theft with a firearm to drugs, the Daily Mail reported.

Yet the media makes him out to be a choir boy.[/quote]

Nightline and the NY Post are part of the media last I checked.

Regardless of his past, did he deserve to die?

If your answer is no why bring this up?

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[url]https://www.dailywire.com/news/mac-donald-statistics-do-not-support-the-claim-of-systemic-police-racism[/url]

A solid body of evidence finds no structural bias in the criminal-justice system with regard to arrests, prosecution or sentencing, Mac Donald writes; rather, crime and suspect behavior, not race, determine most police actions. Mac Donald writes:

In 2019 police officers fatally shot 1,004 people, most of whom were armed or otherwise dangerous. African-Americans were about a quarter of those killed by cops last year (235), a ratio that has remained stable since 2015. That share of black victims is less than what the black crime rate would predict, since police shootings are a function of how often officers encounter armed and violent suspects. In 2018, the latest year for which such data have been published, African-Americans made up 53% of known homicide offenders in the U.S. and commit about 60% of robberies, though they are 13% of the population.

The police fatally shot nine unarmed blacks and 19 unarmed whites in 2019, according to a Washington Post database, down from 38 and 32, respectively, in 2015. The Post defines “unarmed” broadly to include such cases as a suspect in Newark, N.J., who had a loaded handgun in his car during a police chase. In 2018 there were 7,407 black homicide victims. Assuming a comparable number of victims last year, those nine unarmed black victims of police shootings represent 0.1% of all African-Americans killed in 2019. By contrast, a police officer is 18½ times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be killed by a police officer.

Mac Donald also highlights studies by both the Justice Department under President Obama and the finding of an African-American Harvard economist:

A 2015 Justice Department analysis of the Philadelphia Police Department found that white police officers were less likely than black or Hispanic officers to shoot unarmed black suspects. Research by Harvard economist Roland G. Fryer Jr. also found no evidence of racial discrimination in shootings. Any evidence to the contrary fails to take into account crime rates and civilian behavior before and during interactions with police.

Researchers in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences found similar results. “We find no evidence of anti-Black or anti-Hispanic disparities across shootings, and White officers are not more likely to shoot minority civilians than non-White officers,” the report found. “Instead, race-specific crime strongly predicts civilian race. This suggests that increasing diversity among officers by itself is unlikely to reduce racial disparity in police shootings.”

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[URL="https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/06/03/us/minneapolis-police-use-of-force.html"]Minneapolis Police Use Force Against Black People at 7 Times the Rate of Whites[/URL]

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

For someone that is anti media and you use the "dailywire" as a link ?:banghead:


Where in your link did it say Mr Floyd deserved to die?

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Giantone;1252486]For someone that is anti media and you use the "dailywire" as a link ?:banghead:


Where in your link did it say Mr Floyd deserved to die?[/quote]

What’s wrong with dailywire? They are a conservative opinion media and opinion website...they explicitly state it.

Adding context and data to the issue.

I haven’t read any opinions backing the police actions in the case of George Floyd...most, like the daily wire, have stated it was murder and the officers involved should be charged.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

I find it impossible that race is not a factor in arrests, prosectution, or sentencing.

In order to believe that the criminal justice system would have to be the only known institution in the world to have successfully removed all racial bias from every cop, judge, prosecutor, etc.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=MTK;1252483]Nightline and the NY Post are part of the media last I checked.

Regardless of his past, did he deserve to die?

If your answer is no why bring this up?[/quote]

He did not deserve to die, all of the cops involved deserve to be punished. Chauvin deserves 2nd degree murder charges as far as I am concerned, the others need the highest charges they can legally be hit with.

My problem with not bringing up Floyd's criminal past and painting him as a saint provides a false narrative that his life style did not contribute to negative interactions with the police. The media only telling one side of the story does more harm, it puts a fear of police, that doesn't need to be there, into law abiding citizens that could cause them to panic when interacting with law enforcement.

I have had many interactions with police. I would call most of it harassment.
It first started with driving what boiled down to a street legal Nascar in college. They would think I didn't see them riding in my blind spot waiting for me to go on a speed run. I once had a cop follow me for 9 straight right hand turns and I did nothing wrong. Fast forward a couple years I lived in the So Cal mountains. My street was mostly vacation homes, I was the only full time resident. Ever hear of Les Richter? I used to have poker parties, even though he was way down the street from me and no one came near his house on weekends he would call the cops on me making up lies. I stayed away from cops for decades till I took multiple trips cross country. Out of state plates on Suvs attract cops like flies in drug corridors. I got pulled over almost a dozen times for bs excuses and never written a ticket. I was being PROFILED and I am white.

I would estimate I have interacted with cops 3 dozen times or so at least, probably a lot more as those mountain cops hated me. After the first visit I became as uncooperative as I could without going to jail. Richter was wealthy and they probably were catering to him. The first time he called saying people were in the front yard breaking bottles in the street, yet there was no glass to be found.

The morale of the story, pretty much every interaction I had with police went as I dictated, cooperative with hands on the steering wheel had the drug corridor ones last 90 seconds. In college I would just pull over and stop when they started tailing me. I still keep my hands in sight but called them every name in the book. That would get them to go over my car with a fine tooth comb looking for anything they could ticket me on. Sometimes I would be detained for 15 minutes and let go, again no ticket.

Why doesn't the media constantly educate people on how to interact with police to insure the best chances of avoiding a negative outcome? Even the worst cops aren't going around killing people for signing too loud in church. The media is escalating people's fear of police, that does nothing but harm.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

I don't think his actions in the past dictated his interactions in what happened recently. All accounts already say he was in custody when the incident happened. I also have not seen anything painting him as a saint. The incidents you have mentioned have been documented in stories in WaPo, NY Times, Fox News etc.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

This blame the media stuff is so tired. Sorry, not buying that people fear police only because of the media.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1252492]

The morale of the story, pretty much every interaction I had with police went as I dictated, cooperative with hands on the steering wheel had the drug corridor ones last 90 seconds. In college I would just pull over and stop when they started tailing me. I still keep my hands in sight but called them every name in the book. That would get them to go over my car with a fine tooth comb looking for anything they could ticket me on. Sometimes I would be detained for 15 minutes and let go, again no ticket.

[/quote]

Bob -- your whole post is a shining example of white privilege. For the most part, being white helps tremendously. Or being good looking etc. its not 100% of the time, or even 50% of the time .. but being white in this country has huge advantages. So does being good looking. or dressing professional.

I got pulled over by border patrol because apparently me and a buddy had crossed into mexico some how and were crossing back into the US. I didnt even know we left the US, we were driving on some basically dirt roads. It was a little rinky dinky shack of a border stop out in the middle of nowhere. They find a bunch of weed, detain us for a bit ... me and my buddy are in cells but talking polite with the 2 white officers (they were the only ones there), they were about the same age as us, kinda joking around even though i imagine we could be facing some serious federal charges.

after about an hour ... those 2 white mid 20s officers lets us (2 white mid 20s) go saying hurry up before their supervisor gets there and theyd be forced to charge us.

white privilege.

I have countless stories of white cops letting my white ass go and it wasnt for something nominal like speeding. of course, ive been arrested to. got elbowed by an officer while i was handcuffed to a table etc ... but i know i enjoy the benefits of white privilege almost every day, in things so small and big.

----------------------

bottom line - Bob what works for you or me ... doesnt work nearly as often for a black person.

period.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

If you haven’t seen the videos of NYC of the rioting and looting which happens at night...do it now.

Cuomo and de blasio completely mishandled the covid crisis to the point they should be recalled....and now this? FFS, look at the shit happening in NYC the last two nights, it’s utter chaos. Completely out of control.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/03/nyregion/nyc-protests-george-floyd.html"]Earlier N.Y.C. Curfew Sees Peaceful Protests and Less Looting: Live Updates[/URL]

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=MTK;1252497]This blame the media stuff is so tired. Sorry, not buying that people fear police only because of the media.[/quote]

You don't buy a lot of things that make sense. Where do you think people get their opinion of the police from, if they frequently didn't interact with them?
I guess everyone here knew George Floyd or someone who knew him.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1252509]You don't buy a lot of things that make sense. Where do you think people get their opinion of the police from, if they frequently didn't interact with them?
I guess everyone here knew George Floyd or someone who knew him.[/quote]

If someone has a genuine fear of the police I'd guarantee it's from past experience and not from the media

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=MTK;1252508][URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/03/nyregion/nyc-protests-george-floyd.html"]Earlier N.Y.C. Curfew Sees Peaceful Protests and Less Looting: Live Updates[/URL][/quote]

NYT is completely dishonest per usual. Anybody claiming peaceful Is just lying at this point.

[url]https://mobile.twitter.com/stillgray/status/1268176768822685696[/url]

[url]https://www.fox5ny.com/video/690458[/url]

[url]https://newyork.cbslocal.com/video/4573738-widespread-looting-continues-in-nyc-in-advance-of-curfew/[/url]

[url]https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000007171066/nyc-protests-looting-curfew.html[/url]

[url]https://newyork.cbslocal.com/video/4573751-protests-looting-continue-past-11-p-m-curfew-in-nyc/[/url]

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

There were peaceful protests along with (less) looting... how is that dishonest?

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=MTK;1252510]If someone has a genuine fear of the police I'd guarantee it's from past experience and not from the media[/quote]

And you can prove this, how?

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=MTK;1252512]There were peaceful protests along with (less) looting... how is that dishonest?[/quote]

If last night was better than the previous 2, then that’s improvement, but the situation is disgraceful and completely unacceptable. The leadership there has done a terrible again. Check the videos above and the social media accounts from last night

Fact is rioting, looting, and violence remain rampant throughout the city, especially at night. This protest is far from peaceful. Anyone saying otherwise isn’t being honest

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

Here was interesting perception survey of what the other part thinks the other party believes [url]https://heterodoxacademy.org/social-science-partisan-perception-gap/[/url]

In the survey democrats were asked questions such as "How many republicans believe racism is a problem still in the US today?" Democrats perceived about 50% of republicans believed that but when republicans were asked it was actually 79% of republicans believed racism is still a problem. When republicans were asked if democrats believe police are bad people, republicans estimated 50% but democrats answered 15%. The results also showed college educated people on both parties were more likely to be off on their perceptions of the other party than their high school educated or drop out peers. It was particularly bad for post graduate degree democrats they were 3 x more likely to be off on their perceptions of republicans than a democrat that has dropped out of high school.

My guess is that when we perceive republicans as not caring about racism or view democrats as antipolice we are most likely incorporating our own bias or are more likely to be on the "wing" of the party.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1252513]And you can prove this, how?[/quote]

Common sense

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=SunnySide;1252505]Bob -- your whole post is a shining example of white privilege. For the most part, being white helps tremendously. Or being good looking etc. its not 100% of the time, or even 50% of the time .. but being white in this country has huge advantages. So does being good looking. or dressing professional.

[/quote]

The above isn't always true. I have never in my life pulled over to help an attractive female motorist who was broke down, back in the pre cell phone days.

I would stop for little old ladies. The last stranded motorists I helped were a couple old black guys broke down in front of the bank I was using last summer. Obvious blown head gasket, I gave them a ride 25 miles south and refused gas money.

They said they had been trying to catch a lift for two hours. If they looked like Halle Berry instead of Fred Sanford and Grady they would had dudes fighting over giving them a ride in minutes.

Your above statement is 99% correct unless said attractive person runs across a weirdo like me. I think I actually treat them worse. I was pretty popular in High School as any guy on the football team was and found my self dating the plain Jane types.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1252509]You don't buy a lot of things that make sense. Where do you think people get their opinion of the police from, if they frequently didn't interact with them?
I guess everyone here knew George Floyd or someone who knew him.[/quote]

Bob - you formed your opinion of police through your interactions with them. Your post went through several stories that you have experienced that formed the basis of your opinion.

Why cant that be the same for others?

Why would you think you can have your opinions based on your experience ... but then think everyone else's opinions of police is not from their own experiences but from media news?

The American experience is different for every single person.

Whats good for Bob or what Bob thinks may not be good for Sunny or what Sunny thinks.

We cannot think that all people must think how we think. I dont expect rural middle america to agree 100% with what I (east coast suburban guy) think.

I dont think assume my experience is the same experience that all americans have experienced.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=MTK;1252516]Common sense[/quote]

My old LTC would say “if common sense was common everyone would have it”.

I use to think that is kind of true

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=SunnySide;1252519]Bob - you formed your opinion of police through your interactions with them. Your post went through several stories that you have experienced that formed the basis of your opinion.

Why cant that be the same for others?

Why would you think you can have your opinions based on your experience ... but then think everyone else's opinions of police is not from their own experiences but from media news?

The American experience is different for every single person.

Whats good for Bob or what Bob thinks may not be good for Sunny or what Sunny thinks.

We cannot think that all people must think how we think. I dont expect rural middle america to agree 100% with what I (east coast suburban guy) think.

I dont think assume my experience is the same experience that all americans have experienced.[/quote]

I just think my number of interactions with police was excessively high, even excluding friends and family for someone who doesn't own a rap sheet. I think my girlfriend was in her 40's the first time she interacted with a cop, she got caught in a state police check point, the ones where they check license and registration and look for safety violations. I believe someone opposite of me with number of interactions could be heavily influenced by the media.

All this triggered a bad cop memory, a friend's cop uncle and his two cop buddies. It will have to wait for later.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=Chico23231;1252514] Anyone saying otherwise isn’t being honest[/quote]

You seem to know a bit about that don't you?

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[IMG]https://i.redd.it/7c2o4u6s3q251.jpg[/IMG]

Cops destroying medical supplies and slashing water bottles meant for the protestors.

25% of the "protestors" are assholes

25% of the officers are assholes

=

half of our society are assholes

-----

[url]https://i.imgur.com/1SqWn8C.gifv[/url]

I honestly feel bad for Melania.

Just divorce him already.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

A portion of the protesters are actually looters and rioters and are definitely assholes giving the peaceful protesters a bad name.

Re: When is Enough ,Enough?
 

[quote=SunnySide;1252526][IMG]https://i.redd.it/7c2o4u6s3q251.jpg[/IMG]

I honestly feel bad for Melania.

Just divorce him already.[/quote]

I see no Police destroying Medical anything .