Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=SOUL-SKINS;617177]This thread should be called Campbells numbers DO LIE!!
He's not nearly as good as his "just OK" stats. He fucking blows[/quote]

Thanks for the insightful commentary. You've added greatly to the discussion.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Buster your doing a great job with updates. Keep it up

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Buster;616916]Hey, if we had brought in Sanchez, we'd have a rookie that the stats and film show is less mobile than Campbell to get killed behind this line, while trying to learn the system from Zorn, who apparently may not be the best teacher.

If we brought in Cutler, same story, a cannon arm like Campbell but no protection and he's not a runner either. The INT totals would probably be even greater with the Skins rather than the Bears, with no upgrade over Campbell.


I am keeping this thread running because it shows that we're not only better off with Campbell than the other two rumored Redskin QBs, he's actually performing better with much less to work with, as the stats show. He's leading them all in nearly every category. As the title says, Campbell's numbers don't lie.[/quote]


I agree with you Buster, but I still don't think he is the "one" to get us to the promised land. The line sucks, but the line wasn't so bad when I saw the Skins play the Lions and he held the ball waayyyyyyy too long and looked like he couldn't make up his mind what to do. He still misses wide open WRs like poor Kelly, etc. Also, he isn't the guy because by the time we do get a nice line in place he might be on the downside of his career(if it is like 5 years). Last but not least, unless Snyder breaks down and gets a GM, I think JC is gone. What Snyder and Cerrato did with JC this offseason was horrendous, and it shows me Snyder doesn't have much faith in the guy.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Paintrain;617185]Thanks for the insightful commentary. You've added greatly to the discussion.[/quote]

Thanks. I thought I made a great point as well.
I'm thinking about cutting and pasting that into every thread discussion.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Buster;616950]I believe the best course of action is:

*Draft another QB. Maybe McCoy, anyone but Tebow. I'd prefer that we pick up a top O-lineman with the high pick we're going to have, but as long as we cover the O-line throughout the draft, I'll be happy.

*Start Campbell with the new coach, hopefully Gruden. With a good line and new coach, I truly believe Campbell will be GREAT...not just good enough, but great. IF he can't cut it with an offensive line and new coach, the rookie or Colt Brennan steps in and it's officially the end of his era.

Campbell is playing very well this year in this Titanic-like offense. With a complete team and competent staff around him, I believe he'll do great things. We can't continue a QB carousel, we've been doing it since Rypien and it is clearly not working. Let's truly develop a QB into our leader.[/quote]

I still don't understand how you can say that Campbell is playing very well. There was a number of plays that were completely his fault this year, including many last night.

He has developed the physical tools to play qb in the nfl, but not a lot of mental skills. As a quarterback, decision-making is THE most important skill to have.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=warriorzpath;617276]I still don't understand how you can say that Campbell is playing very well. There was a number of plays that were completely his fault this year, including many last night.

He has developed the physical tools to play qb in the nfl, but not a lot of mental skills. As a quarterback, decision-making is THE most important skill to have.[/quote]

Exactly

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Sanchez' passing numbers won Offensive Rookie of the Year for Vince Young. And he didn't even have the assistance of a hot dog.

If Campbell ate a hot dog, he'd instantly be the best QB in the division.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Cutler and Campbell remain roughly the same degree of player which should be a cautionary tale to anyone who is convinced that quarterback is the only issue. You can plug in anyone as a space holder, but the Bears and Redskins both have to fix their leaky lines and offensive schemes before you can get any production out of your offense. It's not like either team can run the ball.

The only difference is that we can choose to cut bait at the end of the year, and they are still in another first round draft pick. Basically, they have to spend whatever resources they have to salvage their investment on Cutler. We can either try to salvage what we have with Campbell, or we can just move on without cost.

Neither situation is ideal, but it makes the coaching position a lot more desirable if they have a blank slate. Even if the Bears finish 6-10, they pretty much have to keep Lovie there.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=warriorzpath;617276]I still don't understand how you can say that Campbell is playing very well. There was a number of plays that were completely his fault this year, including many last night.

He has developed the physical tools to play qb in the nfl, but not a lot of mental skills. As a quarterback, decision-making is THE most important skill to have.[/quote]

You can't agree that many of Campbell's mistakes are directly tied to the lack of protection and time to make decisions?

Gruden mentioned about JC's "happy feet", but can you blame him with as many hits, mostly immediate hits that he's taking with this joke of a line TRYING to block for him?

Last season, he had a weak line in the second half, but it wasn't this bad. He threw the fewest INTs of any full-time starting QB last year, even with a broken-down line in the second half. He's clearly capable of playing mistake-free football if he has even a little talent around him...which he doesn't this season.



Thanks for all of the incredibly-stimulating commentary, SOUL-SKINS.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Green1;617219]Buster your doing a great job with updates. Keep it up[/quote]


Thank you.


I will.


Before the season, I strongly supported keeping Campbell. I thought he'd have a big year, which is now clearly impossible without a competent offensive line. However, I stand by my views on Campbell, Cutler and Sanchez and intend to keep compiling the stats that support my stance on it.

Sure, if Campbell's stats proved it, I COULD admit I was wrong and move on, but I don't see that as necessary because he is actually proving to be just as good, or better than the other two QBs even with the distinct disadvantage of playing behind Vinny Cerrato's idea of an offensive line. I still say we made the right decision and wouldn't be any better of a team with another QB this season, but we COULD be worse. Let Collins play a few games and when he's admitted to the hospital, we'll see that.

I also believe that unlike Zorn, Jason Campbell has done enough to earn another year with the team and if he's given a line and has a coach capable of understanding playcalling...can excel.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=Buster;617736]You can't agree that many of Campbell's mistakes are directly tied to the lack of protection and time to make decisions?

Gruden mentioned about JC's "happy feet", but can you blame him with as many hits, mostly immediate hits that he's taking with this joke of a line TRYING to block for him?

Last season, he had a weak line in the second half, but it wasn't this bad. He threw the fewest INTs of any full-time starting QB last year, even with a broken-down line in the second half. He's clearly capable of playing mistake-free football if he has even a little talent around him...which he doesn't this season.



Thanks for all of the incredibly-stimulating commentary, SOUL-SKINS.[/quote]

You can back up your opinion of Campbell with your presentation of the stats.

I'll back up my opinion of Campbell with analysis expressed by respected former quarterbacks, coaches, and general managers. And I'll add that my opinion of Campbell was made before them (respected former...).

Now what is your opinion of who is more credible.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Good point.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

[quote=warriorzpath;617854]You can back up your opinion of Campbell with your presentation of the stats.

I'll back up my opinion of Campbell with analysis expressed by respected former quarterbacks, coaches, and general managers. And I'll add that my opinion of Campbell was made before them (respected former...).

Now what is your opinion of who is more credible.[/quote]Isn't this like saying, "what's more credible, the interpretation of these results, or the opinion of others who are interpreting the same results."

The correct answer is: the evidence is exactly the same. The results are only obvious if you take the big picture approach, which neither side here is doing. You and Buster are taking parts of the picture, and presenting it so that it looks like each of you is right.

For what it's worth, he's doing a much better job, simply because he's not deferring to second or third sources. His arguments are quite disputable, but certainly not by saying, "television tells me otherwise".

Your admission that your mind was already made up, while necessary for full disclosure, more or less kills your objectivity.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

Campbell's numbers dont lie. Neither does the turf in his helmet.

Re: Campbell's numbers dont lie
 

He sucks and should be cut now. Yes the Oline is horrible the worst in the league, but Campbell sucks. Cut him now and move on. Let Collins start and go from there.