Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

[quote=offiss;273345]The guy is nothing, and I mean NOTHING special, 6mil, and 9mil? I would tell him don't let the door hit you in the A**![/quote]


But here's a scenerio, Offiss. Suppose you let D.Dock go. Okay, fine. Then you replace him with, first of all, who? And then at what price?

Let's say you get a guy comparable to Dockery in size, age, and perhaps ability. How do you determine this guys worth? Even if you bring in this guy at a cheaper price, is he really going to be that much cheaper? And was that dollar amount, maybe $1 or $2 million worth disrupting a line that is on the cusp of being dominate?

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

We could have had two thousand yard backs if Portis stayed healthy. We were tops in the league in sacks allowed, why is everyone so great with letting a piece of this great line walk out the door?

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;273351]We could have had two thousand yard backs if Portis stayed healthy. We were tops in the league in sacks allowed, why is everyone so great with letting a piece of this great line walk out the door?[/quote]

I'm not cool with it. I wouldn't be cool with letting Raubach go. In fact, alone, he's probably an average center, but within the context of the unit, his value is much more. And this is the hard lesson we're learning at Redskins Park. A player isn't just a player. Yes, all by himself anyone is tradeable, but the real question how much value does this guy hold on Sunday?

I'm with you TMC, D.Dock has to stay.

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;273351]We could have had two thousand yard backs if Portis stayed healthy. We were tops in the league in sacks allowed, why is everyone so great with letting a piece of this great line walk out the door?[/quote]Good as it is, it could be bettered.

I think bringing Dockery back is the most logical way to go, but Steinbach's a better guard, and in many cases Dockery's inability to pull effectively has indicated that maybe he isn't built for our running style.

What I don't want to see happen is for us to give Steinbach a deal like we gave Archuleta or Carter this offseason. Don't inflate the signing bonus. If you are going to overpay, you might as well keep Dockery and not overpay. We have a month with Dock staying in house to get a reasonable deal done, if it can't get done in that time, better start looking to replace him.

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

[quote=GTripp0012;273354]Good as it is, it could be bettered.

I think bringing Dockery back is the most logical way to go, but Steinbach's a better guard, and in many cases Dockery's inability to pull effectively has indicated that maybe he isn't built for our running style.

What I don't want to see happen is for us to give Steinbach a deal like we gave Archuleta or Carter this offseason. Don't inflate the signing bonus. If you are going to overpay, you might as well keep Dockery and not overpay. We have a month with Dock staying in house to get a reasonable deal done, if it can't get done in that time, better start looking to replace him.[/quote]

Why do you say Steinbach is better? And does that mean he's better here within our system?

I just don't buy the whole "this player or that player is better" theory anymore. Unless we're talking bona-fide superstar, without exception. I think any potential upgrade is a 50/50 proposition. I think first and foremost, it takes a year or more to adjust to a new system, locker room and so forth. Then the player can find his groove, so to speak.

If anyone should know this by now, it's the Redskins.

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

[quote=GTripp0012;273354]Good as it is, it could be bettered.

I think bringing Dockery back is the most logical way to go, but Steinbach's a better guard, and in many cases Dockery's inability to pull effectively has indicated that maybe he isn't built for our running style.

What I don't want to see happen is for us to give Steinbach a deal like we gave Archuleta or Carter this offseason. Don't inflate the signing bonus. If you are going to overpay, you might as well keep Dockery and not overpay. We have a month with Dock staying in house to get a reasonable deal done, if it can't get done in that time, better start looking to replace him.[/quote]

Sure it could be, but I don't want that at the cost of maintaining our already established precedent of overpaying as you mentioned. If Dock leaves and we bring in someone at a decent contract, then fine. I just don't see how that's going to happen. It is going to take four to five years of fiscal responsibility to right this ship as far as people coming here to get paid go.

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

Steinbach will come at a higher price than Dockery.

I'd rather see us keep Dock mainly for the issue of continuity... plus he had a pretty damn good season last year.

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

I personally would rather keep Doc, but not at an outrageous price. It makes sense from a continuity standpoint that we need him to stay.

A case can be made to let him walk and plug in the next guy. The Patriots live by it. We are not necessarliy the Pat's, but is that the direction we want to go?

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

[quote=Hog1;273395]
A case can be made to let him walk and plug in the next guy. The Patriots live by it. We are not necessarliy the Pat's, but is that the direction we want to go?[/quote]


that only works if you have a good GM or scouting department.

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;273350]But here's a scenerio, Offiss. Suppose you let D.Dock go. Okay, fine. Then you replace him with, first of all, who? And then at what price?

Let's say you get a guy comparable to Dockery in size, age, and perhaps ability. How do you determine this guys worth? Even if you bring in this guy at a cheaper price, is he really going to be that much cheaper? And was that dollar amount, maybe $1 or $2 million worth disrupting a line that is on the cusp of being dominate?[/QUOTE]

Here's the real problem which exists not only on this board but throughout the Skins organization, why is the first response to personel have to be who do we sign, or who is a free agent, or who do we trade for??????? There is a little something called the draft, some teams actually use it to build championship teams. Reason? If you have a clue on how to evaluate talent then you can find pro-bowl caliber players, or at least players who can fill a role on a championship team at very reasonable cap friendly price. Now if you can't evaluate talent then I would still suggest useing the draft because the players that you draft and sign [unless it's a top 5 pick] will not throw your salary cap out of whack, unlike free agents who demand top dollar. Yes I am sure there is absolutly no one in the draft capable of at least playing as well as Dock let alone better, not that we could find them, so we will just continue to overpay for average talent.

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

to be honest is resigning doc the highest priority the skins have? to me they have overlooked the biggest hole in the organization...no gm.

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

[quote=That Guy;273471]that only works if you have a good GM or scouting department.[/quote]

I would agree. Hence, a case "can" be made

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

[QUOTE=offiss;273492]Here's the real problem which exists not only on this board but throughout the Skins organization, why is the first response to personel have to be who do we sign, or who is a free agent, or who do we trade for??????? There is a little something called the draft, some teams actually use it to build championship teams. Reason? If you have a clue on how to evaluate talent then you can find pro-bowl caliber players, or at least players who can fill a role on a championship team at very reasonable cap friendly price. Now if you can't evaluate talent then I would still suggest useing the draft because the players that you draft and sign [unless it's a top 5 pick] will not throw your salary cap out of whack, unlike free agents who demand top dollar. Yes I am sure there is absolutly no one in the draft capable of at least playing as well as Dock let alone better, not that we could find them, so we will just continue to overpay for average talent.[/QUOTE]


And Dockery actually WAS someone who we used through this draft thing you talk about, really I am so forgien to the concept of drafting our own players too. But so why would we want to get rid of one of hte few people we actually DID draft and is one of our own. Wasent that the big problem with Smoot/Perice/Clark...ect? Plus we dont have anyone that we've actually drafted latley that could fill in. I dont know about you, but I dont know how many teams start rookies on the offensive line who werent taken in the first round, and if we have to waste our 6th pick on a freaking offensive linemen, it will speak even more to the total incompetence of this front office.

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

does anyone really know what he wants?

Re: No progress in Derrick Dockery Negotiations....
 

[quote=Gmanc711;273507]And Dockery actually WAS someone who we used through this draft thing you talk about, really I am so forgien to the concept of drafting our own players too. But so why would we want to get rid of one of hte few people we actually DID draft and is one of our own. Wasent that the big problem with Smoot/Perice/Clark...ect? Plus we dont have anyone that we've actually drafted latley that could fill in. I dont know about you, but I dont know how many teams start rookies on the offensive line who werent taken in the first round, and if we have to waste our 6th pick on a freaking offensive linemen, it will speak even more to the total incompetence of this front office.[/quote]

That's it exactly.

Dockery is a guy [B]we drafted[/B] and if this front office is serious about this core Redskin stuff then taking care of one of our own for once would be a nice step in that direction. I'd rather overpay for our own talent than someone else's.