Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[QUOTE=#56fanatic;405158]Danny asks for this stuff by spending money, sometimes unwisely, and never getting a front office structure that in condusive to winning consistantly. all the execs around the league and experts have been harping on this since he bought the team. And until he wins a superbowl with the current structure, that will be part of the unrelenting bashing we receive every year.[/QUOTE]

Owners of several other teams (e.g., Dallas' Jerry Jones) "interfere" with personnel decisions and they seem to be doing well. IMO, the idea that all our woes are attributable to front office mismanagement is erroneous. IMO, there are many, many reasons why this franchise has struggled in recent years. First and foremost, we have not had an experienced, franchise QB since ........ hmmm. This is a QB-driven league, we haven't had a franchise QB in quite some time. Second, we've had some awful coaching. If you don't like Gibbs, how do you feel about Norv and Spurrier? Third, injuries and death derailed what was likely a deep playoff run in 2007. The list goes on.

It's nice and all to attribute our struggles to one single source, or, better yet, one single person. While it's convenient to lay the blame for our woes at the feet of a single goat, I'm not buying.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[quote=SouperMeister;405029]Looking at the onfield performance, I can't disagree with that. Getting to the playoffs is fun, but let's be honest, four years ago we had visions of Super Bowls, and the Skins haven't been close to that level.

Looking at the bigger picture, Gibbs solidified the QB position for the next 8-10 years if Campbell's progression continues. Improve play on both lines and I see the Skins taking that next step.[/quote]
Well as to date JC has not shown me enough to say he has solidified the QB position. In fact his progression was going the other way with some of the way we lost ball games. I have not thrown the towel in on JC but he had not shown me enough to say he is our answer at QB for another 8 to 10 years. If he has shown you enough to say that your standards for QB's may be a bit low.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;405169]Well as to date JC has not shown me enough to say he has solidified the QB position. In fact his progression was going the other way with some of the way we lost ball games. I have not thrown the towel in on JC but he had not shown me enough to say he is our answer at QB for another 8 to 10 years. If he has shown you enough to say that your standards for QB's may be a bit low.[/QUOTE]

No, he hasn't yet solidified his position. However, he has shown more promise in his 20 starts (which amounts to just 1.25 seasons) than any QB in the Snyder era has shown. There's certainly cause to be optimistic.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;405166]Owners of several other teams (e.g., Dallas' Jerry Jones) "interfere" with personnel decisions and they seem to be doing well. IMO, the idea that all our woes are attributable to front office mismanagement is erroneous. IMO, there are many, many reasons why this franchise has struggled in recent years. First and foremost, we have not had an experienced, franchise QB since ........ hmmm. This is a QB-driven league, we haven't had a franchise QB in quite some time. Second, we've had some awful coaching. If you don't like Gibbs, how do you feel about Norv and Spurrier? Third, injuries and death derailed what was likely a deep playoff run in 2007. The list goes on.

It's nice and all to attribute our struggles to one single source, or, better yet, one single person. While it's convenient to lay the blame for our woes at the feet of a single goat, I'm not buying.[/quote]


In no way am I saying Snyder is the reason for all of our struggles. I was responding to the article and the bashing we receive through the media year in and year out. My point was we will continue to get bashed by our front office structure and tendencies for spending. I really dont know what has been the issue for this franchise not winning consistantly. to me, its all of the above. Front office moves, with coaches and personel. the swing of coaches in and out of the door (until Gibbs) The constant roster turnover, the differnce in philosophies in terms of the players we have with the philosophies of coaches, never really getting on the same page. And lastly, the players that were brought in on a whim. some of them were bad moves, some good.I think we are going in the right direction with the guys here, most importantly the attitudes of the current roster. They are a family, the work hard and care for everyone on this team. Character as joe says is #1, and we have that now. But when it comes to the critisism, it comes from the top, that is where everyone in the media starts, especially during the offseason after a disappointing finish.
I have defended snyder a ton when it comes to his passion for this franchise. I know of no other owner who puts everything he has into a team, and lives and dies when we win or lose. Snyder to me is a FAN first, then an owner and in some cases that hurts him, some it helps. You could see the hurt yesterday during that press conference, how sad and disappointed he was that Joe was leaving. That is the FAN side of Dan more than the owner. He genuinly loved Gibbs as a person, and a coach and as Pastabelly put it, his boyhood idol.
I hope this front office makes the right choice in finding a head coach, and he is currently in the building, getting support from Gibbs, and more importantly, the players. GW!!

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[QUOTE=irish;405001]I dont recall saying I was glad to see him go in this thread. I said over his entire career he was a great coach but Gibbs 2.0 was a disappointment. There is no way anyone on this board would have thought that after 4 years Gibbs 2.0 would leave with a losing record. Its disappointing.[/QUOTE]

Disappointment is a personal emotion and is completely dependent on the circumstances and your expectations.

Looking back, I am not the least bit disappointed in Gibbs 2.0. Could it have been better? Sure. Like someone else said though, we have improved substantially.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;405166]Owners of several other teams (e.g., Dallas' Jerry Jones) "interfere" with personnel decisions and they seem to be doing well. I[B]MO, the idea that all our woes are attributable to front office mismanagement is erroneous[/B]. IMO, there are many, many reasons why this franchise has struggled in recent years. First and foremost, we have not had an experienced, franchise QB since ........ hmmm. This is a QB-driven league, we haven't had a franchise QB in quite some time. Second, we've had some awful coaching. If you don't like Gibbs, how do you feel about Norv and Spurrier? Third, injuries and death derailed what was likely a deep playoff run in 2007. The list goes on.

It's nice and all to attribute our struggles to one single source, or, better yet, one single person. While it's convenient to lay the blame for our woes at the feet of a single goat, I'm not buying.[/QUOTE]

This just gets back to the general tendency on here for people to have to point the finger at one person.

There is some apparent need to attribute all our problems to one guy. We lost the game because of Suisham. It's all Snyder's fault. Gibbs is old and that's why we lose.

Why are people incapable of looking at the totality of the circumstances?

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;405166]Owners of several other teams (e.g., Dallas' Jerry Jones) "interfere" with personnel decisions and they seem to be doing well. IMO, the idea that all our woes are attributable to front office mismanagement is erroneous. IMO, there are many, many reasons why this franchise has struggled in recent years. [B]First and foremost, we have not had an experienced, franchise QB since ........ hmmm. This is a QB-driven league, we haven't had a franchise QB in quite some time.[/B] Second, we've had some awful coaching. If you don't like Gibbs, how do you feel about Norv and Spurrier? Third, injuries and death derailed what was likely a deep playoff run in 2007. The list goes on.

It's nice and all to attribute our struggles to one single source, or, better yet, one single person. While it's convenient to lay the blame for our woes at the feet of a single goat, I'm not buying.[/quote]

I think that's a great point.

Look at how well things were going with some stellar play from Collins.

And if you look around the league at teams that constantly shuffle in new QBs every year, most likely those are perennial losers.

I'm confident that Campbell can be our guy for a long time. And if he does, we may look back upon Gibbs 2.0 with a slightly different opinion that we have now.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[quote=mheisig;405196]This just gets back to the general tendency on here for people to have to point the finger at one person.

There is some apparent need to attribute all our problems to one guy. We lost the game because of Suisham. It's all Snyder's fault. Gibbs is old and that's why we lose.

Why are people incapable of looking at the totality of the circumstances?[/quote]

Good point. People want the easy scapegoat.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

About the QB play, since it has been brought up:

I seem to recall JC playing pretty stellar in the opening quarter or two of games, and making mistakes when he's asked to turn it back on after we blow a slim lead. I can think of 3 interceptions at the very end of ballgames (2 at dallas and 1 at TB) trying to come back from a blown lead because of conservative play.

I wondered then and now, how he would have fared if his offense didn't change with a lead. Even the players said the gameplan changed and they were allowed to do things with a lead that they should have been doing all along...

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[quote=canthetuna;405237]About the QB play, since it has been brought up:

I seem to recall JC playing pretty stellar in the opening quarter or two of games, and making mistakes when he's asked to turn it back on after we blow a slim lead. I can think of 3 interceptions at the very end of ballgames (2 at dallas and 1 at TB) trying to come back from a blown lead because of conservative play.

I wondered then and now, how he would have fared if his offense didn't change with a lead. Even the players said the gameplan changed and they were allowed to do things with a lead that they should have been doing all along...[/quote]
Thats a fair question to ask but all QB's in the NFL have to perform in the last minutes of a game. The thing that seperates good QB's from great ones is their ability to pull out a game in the final drive. JC has shown the ability to drive us down the field but not the ability to make that final play. Even if we play the same for the entire game he has to show that he can win these types of games. I'm not saying he cannot but can someone point out a game where he has driven us down field and scored to win a game. I'm not bashing JC I'm just not ready to say that he is our franchise QB.

One other thing on JC.
He seems to get into the rush mode a little soon when we are driving the ball downfield. Like in our first Dallas game he threw a very poor pass to give them the win. We had plenty of time and all he needed to do was throw the ball away.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[quote=canthetuna;405237]About the QB play, since it has been brought up:

I seem to recall JC playing pretty stellar in the opening quarter or two of games, and making mistakes when he's asked to turn it back on after we blow a slim lead. I can think of 3 interceptions at the very end of ballgames (2 at dallas and 1 at TB) trying to come back from a blown lead because of conservative play.

[B]I wondered then and now, how he would have fared if his offense didn't change with a lead. Even the players said the gameplan changed and they were allowed to do things with a lead that they should have been doing all along[/B]...[/quote]

The coaches were only trying to protect their young QB and not put him in bad spots. With a good running game and defense at their disposal it was the logical thing to do.

I think next year we'll see less of that as he continues to gain experience.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[quote=sancho2613;405144]you didn't say it in this one but you did say it in a different thread but that's another story.... I just can't understand why anyone would think it's a disapointment? You make it seem like the Skins had winning records the few years before he came back and then he got here and ruined it. You have seen the skins records on the few years before he came back right? They had only one winning record in the previous 7 years before he came back. He had his team playing hard for him and if you would of had your wish i believe you would of had a lot worst of a season. I just can't understand why you would want another coach knowing that the team would play harder and have a lot more respect for the hall of fame coach you already had. It almost seems like wishing you had a crappier team by having a coach that wouldn't of been able to pull through the hard times that Gibbs had to go through. Sorry just can't understand.... 1 playoff berth in 12 years when he's gone or 2 in 4 years? I don't think you have to be a rocket scientist to figure out if you were better off with him or with out him....[/quote]

Give yourself a pat on the back and a cold pint :food-smil

Hope the Packers beat the Seahawks.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[QUOTE=mheisig;405191]Disappointment is a personal emotion and is completely dependent on the circumstances and your expectations.

Looking back, I am not the least bit disappointed in Gibbs 2.0. Could it have been better? Sure. Like someone else said though, we have improved substantially.[/QUOTE]

You are not the least bit disappointed in a losing record overall and 1 playoff win? I find that really hard to believe.

How have we improved substantially? Do the skins have good players? Yes but they have had good players in the past also. The NFL is such a fluid environment that its hard to say that what is here now will be here in the future or be successful.

This team had a losing record prior to Gibbs 2.0 and it had a losing record when he left. The only improvement I saw was barely making the playoffs twice. I guess thats better than nothing.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

[quote=irish;405269]You are not the least bit disappointed in a losing record overall and 1 playoff win? I find that really hard to believe.

How have we improved substantially? Do the skins have good players? Yes but they have had good players in the past also. The NFL is such a fluid environment that its hard to say that what is here now will be here in the future or be successful.

This team had a losing record prior to Gibbs 2.0 and it had a losing record when he left. The only improvement I saw was barely making the playoffs twice. I guess thats better than nothing.[/quote]

Yes, actually its twice as much as we'd been since Gibbs left in 93. Everything is relative, and to not evaluate someone w/respect to the circumstances is almost arbitrary. Gibbs came into a situation that even the Danny conceded yesterday was "unstable." He got us to the playoffs twice & brought in talent to build on, particularly JC. Even if you're not convinced he's the guy, at least Gibbs made the move to get him, which was not that costly either. Gibbs knew that it was in the best interest of the team & that in all likelihood JC's best years would be after Gibbs retires.

If I'm correct, Pastabelly also said similar things about Parcells' tenure w/Dallas, pointing out his avg. record. yet Parcells got that team back in the playoffs & built the roster that is now #1 in the nfc.

Re: Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"
 

LOL there's no barely making the playoffs. You either make it or you don't.