Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=tryfuhl;517489]he gets flustered, you can see it in his face, he just doesn't make it verbal it seems[/quote]

Ah, yes, the old "face" test. I hear Bill Walsh was a big proponent of using this method to break down opponents.

I can't believe this thread has gone to five pages.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=30gut;517533]What makes you say this?

One of the things Zorn and others (Jaws, Aikman) praise Jason for is that he [B][I]does[/I][/B] go through his progressions.

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/11/26/ST2008112604197.html"]Campbell Is Earning Zorn's Trust - washingtonpost.com[/URL]

The tendency was something Zorn knew he would have to address with Campbell, but the former Seahawks quarterback smiled as he analyzed the young signal caller's performance during his news conference later in the day.

[COLOR=Indigo]"Remember, at the beginning of the season I couldn't get him off that receiver and now he is off him, you know, five yards down the field. Boy, he's looking for number two and number three," the first-year head coach said, chuckling. "So we'll get him back on track. I think he's playing well, though." [/COLOR]

I don't know bro, this is like a direct contradiction of what you're saying huh?

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But it doesn't change the [B][U][SIZE=3][COLOR=Red]fact[/COLOR][/SIZE][/U][/B] that Jason was at one point being considered for league MVP.

Here's a question for you and [B]BeastsoftheNFCeast[/B] and [B]BigHairedAristocrat[/B]

If Jason was being considered for MVP can you admit that Jason was at least playing well in the 1st half of the season?

Here are some more quotes you might like:
[URL="http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/redskins/2008-10-23-sw-cover_N.htm"]With tough love from Zorn, Campbell now among elite QBs - USATODAY.com[/URL]

[COLOR=DarkRed]Former Pittsburgh Steelers head coach Bill Cowher considers Campbell a leading candidate for mid-season league MVP.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=DarkRed]"Jason Campbell has played as well as anybody has in the NFL at his position," Cowher, now a CBS analyst, says. "He's thrown for good numbers. He's got no turnovers. He's big, strong and able to move out of the pocket and make throws down the field.

"He's brought his team back when they've been down. I've been very impressed with Jason Campbell's play."[/COLOR]
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[COLOR=Red]Fox Sports lead NFL analyst Troy Aikman says[/COLOR][COLOR=Red]"With all the coaching changes, I didn't know how it would play out with Jim Zorn becoming a first-time head coach and play-caller and losing defensive coordinator Gregg Williams and Jason Campbell having to learn a new system again."
"The reason they're closing people out is the way Jim Zorn is calling games.
"He's going for it on fourth down and throwing on first down in the fourth quarter because Jason understands about taking care of the ball."[/COLOR]

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[COLOR=Orange]"I thought Jason would eventually play well under Jim Zorn," ESPN Monday Night Football analyst Ron Jaworski says. "I didn't think he'd play this well, this early.
"I've seen his game ascending. He can make every throw a quarterback has to have, the tough stick throw, the deep out, the seam route. He has great anticipation. I thought he'd become a rock-solid quarterback.
"That it's happened this quickly really is a tribute to Jim Zorn."[/COLOR][/quote]

Just stop trying 30gut. Reason and expert analysis falls on deaf ears with the Campbell haters around here. You can point out concrete analysis from experts left and right, and not only won't any of the haters acknowledge it, they'll still preach on like they know what they're talking about.

Not to mention the fact that there are probably at least half a dozen threads dedicated to how "bad" of a qb JC is, yet these new threads keep popping up. :doh:

Yours is an honorable effort, but some people just don't really like to listen to reason.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=GMScud;517554]Just stop trying 30gut. Reason and expert analysis falls on deaf ears with the Campbell haters around here. You can point out concrete analysis from experts left and right, and not only won't any of the haters acknowledge it, they'll still preach on like they know what they're talking about.

Not to mention the fact that there are probably at least half a dozen threads dedicated to how "bad" of a qb JC is, yet these new threads keep popping up. :doh:

Yours is an honorable effort, but some people just don't really like to listen to reason.[/quote]Well, hey, reason is directly contradicting what they want to think, so I mean, doesn't it have to be wrong?

I mean, a lot of the criticisms against JC in this thread are being [B]totally 100% made up.[/B] Then there are other criticisms that are there: long release, from the south, not Matt Ryan, that are true, but are being used improperly to support conclusions that they don't actually support.

And that's inclusive of all the anti-Campbell arguments. Made up evidence. Misused evidence. You'd think if the guy was really not the future of the team, someone could make a stronger argument than "I'm not sold on him", but that was firstdowns argument, and it was the best non-pro-Campbell argument in this entire 6 page thread.

Sadly.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

lol another JC thread, ill just post what i always do i suppose . .

JC has does enough good things to be optimistic about his future, but he hasnt done enough to quiet the doubters.

i just dont get how some of ya'll can act like JC's play doesnt leave something to be desired so far. i dont believe we should bench JC for colt or even having an open comp next year but i am certainly on the fence about JC and i dont think im stupid for thinking so, nor do i think the ardent JC supporters are wrong.

enough good things and bad things for reasonably intelligent minds to respectfully disagree on.

go skins!!

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

Some of you Skins fans hate the whole damn roster it seems... its funny to me..

Heres an Observation. WE NEED OUR O-LINE PROBLEMS SOLVED... if Jason doesnt perform then... well then ill point the finger. I see nothing wrong with our Quarterback.. He makes mistakes at times but so do the best. Yes.. hes a left a little to be desired... but its too early to point the finger at him. Folks say.. he looks confused at times... NO... Eli Mannings a great example of looking confused if thats what you wanna criticize...Jason seems COMPOSED to me. Next Season will be another huge step for Campbell. ahem... Hopefully.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

ok, then can us skins fans agree on one thing. if Campbell doesn't step up to be what we all would like him to be, then its pretty much over for him?

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=dmek25;517624]ok, then can us skins fans agree on one thing. if Campbell doesn't step up to be what we all would like him to be, then its pretty much over for him?[/quote]

I would say if there isn't some improvement next year (His contract year I believe) than the FO would come to the conclusion that he isn't the QB we need. But this offense as a [B]whole[/B] needs to improve to get more wins.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=dmek25;517624]ok, then can us skins fans agree on one thing. if Campbell doesn't step up to be what we all would like him to be, then its pretty much over for him?[/quote]

'09 will definitely be a do or die year for him. If he's successful and the team is successful he'll get extended. If he's not more productive (I argue that he's a good QB now, but the production isn't there yet) then he and Zorn will be gone and Cowher/Shanahan/Holmgren will be starting from scratch with a new signal caller.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=dmek25;517624]ok, then can us skins fans agree on one thing. if Campbell doesn't step up to be what we all would like him to be, then its pretty much over for him?[/quote]

2009 should be a make or break year for Cerrato (along with Scott Campbell and Morocco Brown), Zorn, and Campbell.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=SmootSmack;517653]2009 should be a make or break year for Cerrato (along with Scott Campbell and Morocco Brown), Zorn, and Campbell.[/quote]

I think Campbell is going to have a long career in the NFL. He's proven that he can play mistake-free football and not hurt his team. I think the question is whether he's going to be like Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Charlie Batch, David Carr, Byron Leftwich, Brian Griese - players who had some success as starters (even Super Bowls winners in the case of Dilfer and Johnson), but ended up being solid backups.

or will he be a bonafied starter througout his career? Fair or not, QBs are judged on wins and losses more than stats. 1st round picks like Campbell seem to get their shot for 2-4 years, but if they don't win, regardless of the situation (poor O line, poor receivers, etc.), they end up being elegated to the bench, usually replaced by the next "up and comer". Once there, it's hard to earn another starting gig.

I think we'll find out what kind of career Campbell will have next year.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

Anybody else notice that the people who have criticised Campbell on this thread are quite happy for others to come on and defend him, yet the defenders quickly resort to insults and ridiculous accusations of racism when anybody disagrees with them?

Strange that.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=davy;517704]Anybody else notice that the people who have criticised Campbell on this thread are quite happy for others to come on and defend him, yet the defenders quickly resort to insults and ridiculous accusations of racism when anybody disagrees with them?

Strange that.[/quote]
Don't want any part of where this is going

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=davy;517704]Anybody else notice that the people who have criticised Campbell on this thread are quite happy for others to come on and defend him, yet the defenders quickly resort to insults and ridiculous accusations of racism when anybody disagrees with them?

Strange that.[/quote]

Why dont you shut up, you big dummy, your so stupid. No just joking, I agree.

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=44ever;517708]Sad but true. The intension seems to be personal insult instead of a [B]friendly debate, disscusion or opinion of football[/B].[/quote]

It's kind of hard to have a debate when all the Campbell haters have baseless arguments like "I just don't see it," or "JC is just not an NFL QB," and then they proceed to ignore all the valid expert analysis and articles to the contrary.

And in response to what Davy said about insults/racism... Umm what? One person brought up the suggestion of racism, and it was pretty much shot down by everyone. I'm not going through and reading every anti-Campbell post around here, but I haven't really heard any insults.

The funny thing is, all the Campbell haters are just getting pwned left and right!! "He holds it too long, he's not accurate, I just don't see it," blah blah blah. JC supporters here are citing multiple credible sources stating the exact opposite over and over. It's funny to me.

What's so lame to me is we finally have a QB with a great chance to be an upper echelon player, something the Skins have lacked at QB since Mark friggin Rypien, yet he's still getting ripped. When did we get so greedy?

Re: Observation on Campbell
 

[quote=30gut;517443]Comparing apples and oranges.
Look i like Matt Ryan but put Campbell on the Falcons and IMO you would get similiar if not better production then Ryan.

Did you stop to compare their situations?

Matt Ryan has a [COLOR="Olive"]veteran OC and playcaller in Mike Mularkey. Mularkey runs a vertical play-action heavy passing attack[/COLOR], as opposed to JC who is in the 1st year of the WCO which takes at 3 years to master JC has a [COLOR="DarkRed"]1st time playcaller[/COLOR] Zorn and a [COLOR="DarkRed"]1st time OC [/COLOR] Sherman Smith (who is new to the WCO himself.)

Matt Ryan has been only been sacked [COLOR="Olive"]17 times he's the 8th least sacked QB in the NFL[/COLOR]. Campbell has been [COLOR="DarkRed"]sacked 38 times tied for 4th most.[/COLOR]

Falcons have the #2 ranked rushing offense in the NFL which [COLOR="Olive"]drives their play-action heavy passing attack[/COLOR]. Redskins have the 8th ranked rushing offense but [COLOR="DarkRed"]the WCO doesn't feature alot of play-action[/COLOR].

Having Mike Mularkey on staff is IMHO the number one reason for Ryan's success.

[COLOR="DarkGreen"]Mike Mularkey comes to the Falcons with a vast amount of coaching and playing experience in the NFL, which includes two years as a Head Coach (Buffalo Bills) and two stints as an Offensive Coordinator — one with the Pittsburgh Steelers (2001–2003), and the other with the Miami Dolphins (2006). He also forged a successfull playing career that spanned nine years in the League as a tight end for the Minnesota Vikings (1983–1988) and Pittsburgh Steelers (1989–1991).[/COLOR]

[url=http://www.atlantafalcons.com/People/Coaches/Mike_Mularkey.aspx]Atlanta Falcons | People | Mike Mularkey[/url]

*Also they have a fulltime QB coach in Bill Musgrave. Zorn is JC's QB coach which is great, but Zorn is also the HC and therefore can't give JC fulltime attention therefore Zorn relies on 1st time NFL assistant Chris Meidt (Div. II HC) to help out with QB coach duties.


Not exactly comparing like with like huh?

Also, JC has had a good season under adverse circumstances.
Look at the numbers:
Jason Campbell WAS QB 315 506 62.3 31.6 3,245 6.4 202.8 13 6 162 32.0 67T 34 3 38 84.3

[COLOR="Magenta"][SIZE="5"]And if you can't see it in the numbers listen to the experts:[/SIZE][/COLOR]

[url=http://search.espn.go.com/jason-campbell/audio/7]Jason Campbell - Audio - ESPN[/url]

ESPN Ron Jaworski was considering JC for league MVP during the 1st half of the season.

Yet, despite all this:

Instead of saying JC isn't good.
Just say the truth.
Despite how good JC is.... [B][I][SIZE="3"]You [/SIZE][/I][/B]don't like him.[/quote]

Last time I checked they dont give MVPs for 8 games. I bet Jaws wouldnt consider him anywhere near MVP now (especially since P. Manning won it and JC isnt anywhere close to him). I dont like JC as QB because he isnt that good.