Re: The line is quite offensive right now
 

[quote=skinster;617086]I don't remember ever getting a top 5 QB. Especially one we don't have to give up draft picks to get.

Do you not agree that a QB is a necessity to succeed in this league? How do you recommend we go about getting one? Stick with JC? That isn't working. Get a FA QB? Who that is going to be reliable?[/quote]

Top 5 QB draft picks are a total crap shoot. More bust than boom really. On the flip side, we're FAR more likely to get a top tier starting caliber O-lineman (who can immediately contribute) with a top 5-10 pick. I want no part of Sam Bradford or Colt McCoy.

IMO we'd be much better off taking a lineman with the 1st pick, then grabbing a QB in the second or third round. I said it before, I'd like to see Tony Pike or Zac Robinson. Depending on how the draft board looks in April, I wouldn't mind trading down in the first round to accumulate multiple selections. Hopefully we'll have a real GM making decisions by then.

Re: The line is quite offensive right now
 

pike maybe, zac i dont think will translate to the pro game well.

Re: The line is quite offensive right now
 

[quote=skinster;617086]I don't remember ever getting a top 5 QB. Especially one we don't have to give up draft picks to get.

Do you not agree that a QB is a necessity to succeed in this league? How do you recommend we go about getting one? Stick with JC? That isn't working. Get a FA QB? Who that is going to be reliable?[/quote]

You must work for the front office. If I was a MOD I'd ban front office people from posting on this site.

No, I don't agree a QB is a necessity. Eli Manning has WALL EYES!

Here's to you an your bright ideas. :vomit:

Re: The line is quite offensive right now
 

[quote=Big C;617098]pike maybe, zac i dont think will translate to the pro game well.[/quote]

Pike seems a lot like a Joe Flacco to me. I'd take that in a second. I like Zac Robinson's pocket awareness, feet, and quick release.

Re: The line is quite offensive right now
 

I will not argue that the line isn't bad. Stevie Wonder can see that problem, but I do feel that Cerratto can get off his ass and make something happen.

We could pick up a Jon Runyan slide Mike Williams to gaurd and Levi Jones moves to Left tackle. That would stregthen the oline, the running game would become better. Campbell was fragile mentally before from what happened in the off season and this year, it's time to move on. Jeff could come in learn the basics in the bye week and you could go the PC route, let Campbell start the ATL game then bench him after he stinks it up. They have to do all they can to get this turned around, I don't think they are right doing that right now. Why waste a roster spot on Ganther who will never see the playing field?

Re: The line is quite offensive right now
 

What is the deal with Chad Rinehart? How in the hell is he not on the field? Thomas is out for the year and he's STILL not playing. WTF is going on with this guy??? Montgomery is a bum yet our 3rd rounder from last year can't beat out this journeymen? Boy did Vinny and co. miss on this guy.

Re: The line is quite offensive right now
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;617084]You are displaying the thinking that got us into this position. Our problem is not our quarterback. You think Orton, Sanchez or hell Manning or Brady would have been any different last night? I have seen the body language that Campbell displayed before, he looked exactly like Patrick Ramsey. He was a punching bag and was just waiting for the hits to come.

What did Gibbs with with? It wasn't the QB, it was the line. The only constant of our dominating teams was the offensive line.[/quote]

Its a different game today than in Gibbs's day. It is much more Pass oriented. Out of the top 17 QB's with the top passer ratings, none of those teams have a losing record, and SD and Balt are the only teams who are 3-3. Also 10 out of those 17 were first round QB's. I am well aware that a QB does not solve all the problems, but it helps out significantly more than any other position. We just missed on talent when drafting our guys. I don't think JC is the worst, but I also think he is not capable of taking us to a superbowl.

Yes I do think Manning or Brady would have been better. Manning has played behind a shit offensive line before and still worked wonders. Last year Rothlesberger played behind arguably one of the worst lines in the league.
Just for the record, I am a believer in the offensive line, but I think one out of 5 pieces of an O-line is not as important as the guy getting the ball every play. An offensive line is pretty much only as strong as it's weakest member while a QB can make things happen any given play.

Re: The line is quite offensive right now
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;617088]Every year a few good linemen are available. And don't discount the fact that some agents know that Snyder will be looking for a big name lineman and will do what it takes to get their clients a contract here.[/quote]

That's not the point. I just talked about why there won't be good young linemen available like you suggested we get. It's going to be tough acquire young linemen when they'll be RESTRICTED Free Agents until they're ~28.

Re: The line is quite offensive right now
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;617090]I am absolutely floored that anyone wants a QB with our first pick. How do you watch Stephon Heyer last night and call for a quarterback?[/quote]

While being a 'build through the O-Line' type of guy myself, the fact of the matter is that the guys on MNF were right. Part of the reason we can't compete in this division is we don't have a top 10 QB (Top 10 being a reference to talent not draft position).

The fact of the matter is we can get good tackles in the 2nd round and quality Centers in the 4th. On top of that we need to bring in real top tier Free Agents and I mean the type of guy that's at the same level Randy Thomas was when we brought him in. No more of these Jermey Bridges of the world. No I want a real quality Free Agent that's going to give us a run similar to Thomas.

Personally I would love to have a Dolphins type turnaround, where they choose to bring in Jake Long over Matt Ryan (a mistake in hindsight but still Long is no slouch in the blocking department) and spend the rest of the draft adding big guys. However part of the reason they were able to turn around so quickly was that Chad Pennington became available. Personally I don't see that happening this off season as it's a rare enough occurance as it is.

Of course if we draft a OL with our first pick instead of a QB you definitely won't see me complaing.

Re: The line is quite offensive right now
 

Sheriff Gonna Getcha said:
[INDENT][B]Dockery is the only lineman who would start for about half of the teams in the league. The rest of the guys are backups at best.[/B][/INDENT]

Listen to this man; he has provided great wisdom here.

The rest of the guys are indeed backups at best now - - and the overwhelming probability is that they will continue to be nothing better than backups in the future. Take off the burgandy and gold glasses and realize that "down the road" you are not going to have the other three NFC East teams looking jealously at Chad Rinehart or Mike Williams or Casey Rabach or Stephon Heyer or any of the other guys who can't start ahead of those goofs. There are about 9 OL on the Skins' roster; of those 9 there is 1 [I]bona fide[/I] starter at the NFL level going forward from 2009. That's it; that's the list.


Want to feel even worse? Back in the draft of 2008, the Skins traded a first round pick to Atlanta and got 2 second round picks. Atlanta took Sam Baker with that pick; Baker is a very good young OL and is playing on an OL that gave up a total of TWO sacks in their first FIVE games. [Jason Campbell gets sacked twice coming through the tunnel for player introductions.]

On whom did the Skins use those two picks they got? Did they get lesser OL prospects? Nope. Those picks became two-thirds of the Thomas/Davis/Kelly strategem.


So, how's that working out Vinny?

Re: The line is quite offensive right now
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;617100]You must work for the front office. If I was a MOD I'd ban front office people from posting on this site.

No, I don't agree a QB is a necessity. Eli Manning has WALL EYES!

Here's to you an your bright ideas. :vomit:[/quote]


What is with everyone and not recognizing the importance of a QB? I don't really think it's debatable that the QB is the most important piece of the team. An O-line is FIVE members. You won't fix it by getting one piece of the puzzle.

I also think manning is good, look at the numbers he is putting up with mediocre at best recievers...manningham as I think 8 drops this year. but that's a side convo not entirely on topic.

Re: The line is quite offensive right now
 

[quote=skinster;617114]What is with everyone and not recognizing the importance of a QB? I don't really think it's debatable that the QB is the most important piece of the team. An O-line is FIVE members. You won't fix it by getting one piece of the puzzle.

I also think manning is good, look at the numbers he is putting up with mediocre at best recievers...manningham as I think 8 drops this year. but that's a side convo not entirely on topic.[/quote]

Check out sportscurmudgeon's post before yours.

Re: The line is quite offensive right now
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;617110]While being a 'build through the O-Line' type of guy myself, the fact of the matter is that the guys on MNF were right. Part of the reason we can't compete in this division is we don't have a top 10 QB (Top 10 being a reference to talent not draft position).

The fact of the matter is we can get good tackles in the 2nd round and quality Centers in the 4th. On top of that we need to bring in real top tier Free Agents and[B] I mean the type of guy that's at the same level Randy Thomas was when we brought him in.[/B] No more of these Jermey Bridges of the world. No I want a real quality Free Agent that's going to give us a run similar to Thomas.

Personally I would love to have a Dolphins type turnaround, where they choose to bring in Jake Long over Matt Ryan (a mistake in hindsight but still Long is no slouch in the blocking department) and spend the rest of the draft adding big guys. However part of the reason they were able to turn around so quickly was that Chad Pennington became available. Personally I don't see that happening this off season as it's a rare enough occurance as it is.

Of course if we draft a OL with our first pick instead of a QB you definitely won't see me complaing.[/quote]

Under the new system, Randy Thomas would have been 2 years away from free agency when we got him.

Everyone is discounting the new rules on RFA's, it's going to prevent a ton of guys from becoming free agents. Of the list Matty had:

Jahri Evans, Marcus McNeil, Daryn Colledge, Jared Gaither, Jeremy Trueblood, David Baas, Khalif Barnes, Alex Barron, Jeromey Clary, Ryan Cook, Richie Incognito, Charlie Johnson, Chris Kuper, Deuce Lutui, Rudy Niswanger, Donald Penn, Chris Spencer, Jason Spitz, Adam Terry and Marshal Yanda

will NOT qualify for Unrestricted Free Agency. Are we starting to get the picture yet? That leaves a bunch of 30+ year olds unless you're willing to give up draft picks. The NFL is going to change in a big way. Players are going to be closer to 30 when they hit free agency and it's going to be easier to keep young talent. Free agency will become very lean in the future with no cap.

This will leave the Skins to sift through guys who aren't living up to big contracts (maybe a Robert Gallery) and are cut to avoid cap ramifications. That's essentially taking a flier on a guy to live up to his draft status...that usually doesn't work.

We need to accept that it may take more than one offseason to fix the O LINE and probably more than one to fix the whole offense.

Re: The line is quite offensive right now
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;617117]Check out sportscurmudgeon's post before yours.[/quote]

I get it. I know the O-Line is really important. Im just saying that a qb is more important than ONE O-lineman. What is the better combo, Joe Thomas blocking for Derek Anderson or the guy that replaced Tony Ugoh blocking for Peyton Manning?
O-line needs to be developed over time, we do need to invest in it. But while we have the shot to possibly get a QB of the future, let's take it. We can pick up O-linemen with other picks in the draft and possibly in FA, while that is unlikely to do with a QB. I do not believe our problems (on the O-line and elsewhere) can be fixed in one season. We need to build to the future, and the best single starting piece we can get to do that is a QB.

Re: The line is quite offensive right now
 

[quote=jdlea;616902]Okay...name the QB who should come in here. Where does he come from? How do you acquire him?

I understand the frustration. I'm to my breaking point with JC, but there's not one quarterback in this league who could look great behind this line, so you better address that as well. And if you want to spend a #1 pick on a QB and have him turn into David Carr behind this GD line, then you're going to be saying F Snead, Bradford, McCoy, Tebow, or Kolb in about 5 years too.[/quote]


I know few some QB's ..........rodgers, philip rivers and roetlisberger. who can still pass it even with a bad oline.
too bad JC does not have their ability.