Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

The Poll question was [B]"Do you think that Belichick and the Patriots ran up the score?"[/B]

I've yet to read one single post that clearly justified what the Patriots did. There was a lot of bullshit about the Skins should have stopped them if they didn't like the fact that the Patriots were running up the score or that Gibbs and company should have had the team better prepared, but this doesn't address the basic fact that Belichick deliberately ran up the score. Whereas when the game is decided, most professional coaches pull their starters and run out the clock. So this means that Belichick is a classless and bullshit coach. I'm rooting for anyone to beat this team and pound their players to submission.

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

[quote=mheisig;370693]Couldn't have said it better myself. Anyone who doesn't get this point probably won't ever get it. It's like arguing with a brick wall.

It's no surprise that these two are the ones sticking up for Belichick.[/quote]

I'm not sticking up for BB at all. I agree that he is somewhat of a jackass. But I'm just not going to come on here and blame him for our problems, like everyone else is. I'm just pointing out that we don't need to worry about BB and his personal issues. What the hell does that have to do with went down on the field yesterday? What does that have to do with why we can't get 1st downs? What does that have to do with why we keep calling stupid 2 yard screen passes that don't work?

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;370708]So at what point do we call off the dogs and lock down this thread? Seems like it is the same people going back and forth and I don't think we're going to get much further here. Hell, it's even devolved into some guy defending cheating on your wife in Vegas and then others pointing out why he is wrong. It's just gotten ridiculous. Like Matty said, either you get it or you don't. I'm shocked that some people don't understand the premise, but apparently that isn't going to change no matter how many times we knock our heads against the wall trying to explain.[/quote]

No, it's not like there's a clear cut rule here. These guys are compensated quite well to play. And is Godfrey has such a big deal with it all, do something! Don't go bitchin to Belichick after the damn game! Do something!

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

Skinsfan:

Just a question - do you're buddies wives know they cheated? Has any of them come clean? How would they feel if their wives cheated on them? If you're married how would you feel if you're wife cheated on you?

How does any of this relate to Belicheck? He is a whiny loser, always has been always will be. If he were treated with the disrespect he shows others, he would institute his own little vendatta and never forget the "wrong" (Eric Mangini anyone?). He sure as hell wouldn't treat the opposing party as someone "just playing football". Part of his whininess is his inability/refusal to admit that his interpretation of "Do unto others" only applies to others. To me this is unmanly and cowardly.

Sure, we have our defense should stop him. The Patriots proved it couldn't. Run the ball and run the clock out.

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

[QUOTE=irish;370721]I'm not sticking up for BB. I'm sticking up for playing hard and playing to win until the game is over.

I think a big reason for a lot of people having problems with NE winning how they did is that they either grew up (or are raising kids) in this era of trophies for all and everyone is on the all star team. They think that winning is fine but really dropping the hammer on an opponent is just not right. I guess I'm just old school and think everyone should play as hard as they can all game long. I'd rather get crushed than think the other team eased up on me because they feel sorry for me. That was how me and my friends thought and played. I guess I'm in the minority now.[/QUOTE]

I think you care more about winning than enjoying the game. Originally, the game was created to have fun. It's tough to have fun when your opponent scores 8 times as many points as you. That has changed, and now the focus is not enjoyment, but rather winning at all costs. Maybe it's okay. Maybe it's not.

If you were playing basketball with a bunch of ten year olds, would you just dominate them? I know it's not the same thing, but that is pretty much what you said in your post -- play every game to win, and win as big as you can. I guess you left out the word "professional", when referring to sports.

Also, letting up is not an issue of "feeling sorry" for the other team. It's an issue of respecting the idea that the game is meant to be enjoyable. I guess that doesn't make sense in professional sports. Sigh.

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

I was wicked angry yesterday, and my posts reflected that. Apologies to all offended.

Was Belicheck running it up? A little. However, when the backup QB is in, we're supposed to do something to make his life difficult. He's playing for his life, since Matt Cassell isn't so important he can't be replaced. So if Cassell's lighting us up, that's on our head. I expect every backup QB, especially a young one (who has more to prove), to play with everything he's got.

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

Man, I was hoping not to see a thread like this one. I hate the Pats and the NE area teams altogether (from VT...ouch), but come on people, take the loss and move on. Classless or not, why did the Skins D let them score more? Did they give up just because the Pats are up by a bunch?

I hated it when the Dolphins player said something about NE after their loss and Bellichick trying to score more points. I hate to hear grown up men who are getting paid WAY more than they deserve to play a sport complaining about other teams not giving up. Why? If that is the case, why doesn't the NFL just allow the refs to end the game when the game is out of reach for one opponent.

Take the loss like a man (as it was suggested to me by this board memebers when Dallas lost to the Pats) and remember that your team is above .500.

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

There's a place where it's okay to spit on opponents, spear them, and attempt to paralyze them in an effort to come out the winner. It's called prison.

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

[QUOTE=GhettoDogAllStars;370730]I think you care more about winning than enjoying the game. Originally, the game was created to have fun. It's tough to have fun when your opponent scores 8 times as many points as you. That has changed, and now the focus is not enjoyment, but rather winning at all costs. Maybe it's okay. Maybe it's not.

If you were playing basketball with a bunch of ten year olds, would you just dominate them? I know it's not the same thing, but that is pretty much what you said in your post -- play every game to win, and win as big as you can. I guess you left out the word "professional", when referring to sports.

Also, letting up is not an issue of "feeling sorry" for the other team. It's an issue of respecting the idea that the game is meant to be enjoyable. I guess that doesn't make sense in professional sports. Sigh.[/QUOTE]

Its a professional sport and everyone is evenly matched. These games are not for fun, its about $ and winning. Nothing more, nothing less. NE was not playing a Pop Warner team (no matter how much it looked like they were).

If I was playing basketball against 10 year olds I would not let them win because if I let them win then they did not really win and when they finally did win they would know how great it feels to struggle and finally achieve a goal. Unfortunately trophies for all only helps the loser kids (and their parents) feel less bad about themselves and robbs them of the joy of working toward a goal and accomplishing it.

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;370730]I think you care more about winning than enjoying the game. Originally, the game was created to have fun. It's tough to have fun when your opponent scores 8 times as many points as you. That has changed, and now the focus is not enjoyment, but rather winning at all costs. Maybe it's okay. Maybe it's not.

If you were playing basketball with a bunch of ten year olds, would you just dominate them? I know it's not the same thing, but that is pretty much what you said in your post -- play every game to win, and win as big as you can. I guess you left out the word "professional", when referring to sports.

Also, letting up is not an issue of "feeling sorry" for the other team. It's an issue of respecting the idea that the game is meant to be enjoyable. I guess that doesn't make sense in professional sports. Sigh.[/quote]

I think you are right, the game is there for FUN. You know who was having fun? The NE fans (and their bandwaggon riders) who wanted to see more scores. Alot of people found that to be "enjoyable" (not me because I hate the Pats). Yes, it was not fun for the Skins and their fans, but people (at the game or home) like to see more TDs.

"Professional" sports? Why wouldn't the Skins play like professionals and finish the game right instead of hoping that the Pats would feel sorry for them and stop scoring?

Irish is right I hate the "everyone wins" attitude.

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

[quote=mheisig;370722]I don't think anyone (at least not me) is arguing that we were outcoached and outplayed. They beat us in every last aspect of the game, no doubt about it. And it doesn't excuse our play either - we played like crap and we got beat soundly for it.

It think what people are complaining about is the play calling on the part of the Patriot's offense late in the game. I wouldn't expect the players to take it easy or just kneel down on every possession in the 4th quarter or anything like that. The playcalling from Belichick, however, was extremely aggressive , throwing it deep even when we were down 40+ points to 0.

I think his playcalling was obviously designed to keep racking up points as long as there was time on the clock. When the point differential gets to a certain level it's not about ensuring a win or going for the kill, it's about humiliating an opponent, which is exactly what Belichick was doing.

When the score is 40+ to nothing, throwing the ball deep to get a few more TDs has nothing to do with winning and everything to do with piling on the humiliation and stroking your own ego.

The players can't and shouldn't play less, but they're only going to run what the coach calls, which in Belichicks case is pass, pass, pass, run, run, pass, pass.

Fact of the matter is there is something of an informal agreement or etiquette in football that has lasted decades and he's breaking it, week in and week out. If you DO get up on an opponent by a ridiculous amount, have some class and play a touch more conservative and run the clock out. It's been understood and accepted for years, and Belichick is on a rampage of essentially mocking the entire system and tradition of class that has gone before him.

Tony Dungy's team is undefeated and they've been consistent contenders at the highest level, yet you don't find him or his people embroiled in this much scandal and hatred as you do Belichick and his gang.

As long as he's got the team to keep pounding people like this then there's nothing anyone can do. His legacy in the NFL, however, will most likely be one of victories tarnished buy cheating scandals, a dishonest personal and professional life, and generally being resented by pretty much everyone (except irish and skinsfan).[/quote]

Okay let's be brutally honest for a minute, part of the issue, and correct me if wrong, is that we have a problem with Belichick as an individual and the perception we have him.

Secondly, if this were to happen at the amateur level, then I would lean on the side of calling character and class into question. But this is professional sports. Why is that important to consider here? Because we invest so much of our time and money looking for the best and the brightest. Drilling it into our kids from the time they can run and compete, "win at all costs" Give one hundred percent...leave it on the field. Well, the Pats have a higher standard for those cliches.

You see in the end, we want it both ways. We love to hear at the end of the big games, "no one deserved it more than so and so". But see, that's not the real world. Sometimes classy people win, and I'm okay with that. And sometimes assholes win and win big, and I'm okay with that too. To me "running up the score" isn't the big deal. As long as he wasn't intentionally cheating or trying to injure someone, then I'm okay with that. His eleven guys pushed our eleven guys back for 60 minutes. What's the problem?

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

This is big boy football.
The only thing that could possibly make us look more........??????????? useless, and powerless, is to now crybaby about the surly treatment we recieved at the hands of the Pat's. They did us a GREAT favor. They showed us huge weakness's on O line, Our D-line, running game, etc, etc.
Even their DAMN backup QB ran for a TD!
It was a great lesson

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

[quote=12thMan;370753]Okay let's be brutally honest for a minute, part of the issue, and correct me if wrong, is that we have a problem with Belichick as an individual and the perception we have him.

Secondly, if this were to happen at the amateur level, then I would lean on the side of calling character and class into question. But this is professional sports. Why is that important to consider here? Because we invest so much of our time and money looking for the best and the brightest. Drilling it into our kids from the time they can run and compete, "win at all costs" Give one hundred percent...leave it on the field. Well, the Pats have a higher standard for those cliches.

You see in the end, we want it both ways. We love to hear at the end of the big games, "no one deserved it more than so and so". But see, that's not the real world. Sometimes classy people win, and I'm okay with that. And sometimes assholes win and win big, and I'm okay with that too. To me "running up the score" isn't the big deal. As long as he wasn't intentionally cheating or trying to injure someone, then I'm okay with that. His eleven guys pushed our eleven guys back for 60 minutes. What's the problem?[/quote]



we can go on and on about what happened yesterday. Nothing anyone can say or do will change that. Hopefully we can put the many pieces together and put some good games together for the rest of the season. Maybe we can use the ass kicking as motivation for the rest of the season.
Regarding the "running up the score". I personally think that was very classless. I have played sports my entire life, and we are tought when we win, we win with class. What they did yesterday was far from it. In baseball you dont steal bases late in the game when you are up 5 or so runs. if you do, then the next guy is getting plunked in head, and the next guy. show up a pitcher by posing at the plate, and the next guy will pay for that, and when you come up again you will pay. Playing football when you are up that big in the 4th, you dont line up in shotgun and 5 wide and throw balls all over and down the field. If you want to go for it on 4th down, fine, but run the ball. make the D stop you, if they dont, then they dont. But they lined up and threw for the 1st downs from shotgun. The blitzed the balls off late in the game. I thought it was zero class by a coach who has zero class. He was being as ass after the game "what do you want me to do, kick a field goal?" I just wish for about 10 minutes, our coaching staff would have lost their class and made them pay for doing that crap. Unfortunately we dont have coaches like that. Had it been Buddy Ryan, Mike Ditka, Jerry Glanville, ect they would have taken Brady or who ever was taking the snaps out. I would have sent Sean Taylor after Brady every play, would not have cared about the 15 yard penalties, then Landry, then Marcus, then London. Everyone would have taken their shots. Their will come a team, or a player that wont act as classy as us and they will take their shot at him.
I dont like Ray Lewis very much, but do you think he would have stood their and watched this crap take place with out letting the other team know it wasn't going to happen? He would have taken his shot at someone.

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

[quote=#56fanatic;370762]we can go on and on about what happened yesterday. Nothing anyone can say or do will change that. Hopefully we can put the many pieces together and put some good games together for the rest of the season. Maybe we can use the ass kicking as motivation for the rest of the season.
Regarding the "running up the score". I personally think that was very classless. I have played sports my entire life, and we are tought when we win, we win with class. What they did yesterday was far from it. In baseball you dont steal bases late in the game when you are up 5 or so runs. if you do, then the next guy is getting plunked in head, and the next guy. show up a pitcher by posing at the plate, and the next guy will pay for that, and when you come up again you will pay. Playing football when you are up that big in the 4th, you dont line up in shotgun and 5 wide and throw balls all over and down the field. If you want to go for it on 4th down, fine, but run the ball. make the D stop you, if they dont, then they dont. But they lined up and threw for the 1st downs from shotgun. The blitzed the balls off late in the game. I thought it was zero class by a coach who has zero class. He was being as ass after the game "what do you want me to do, kick a field goal?" I just wish for about 10 minutes, our coaching staff would have lost their class and made them pay for doing that crap. Unfortunately we dont have coaches like that. Had it been Buddy Ryan, Mike Ditka, Jerry Glanville, ect they would have taken Brady or who ever was taking the snaps out. I would have sent Sean Taylor after Brady every play, would not have cared about the 15 yard penalties, then Landry, then Marcus, then London. Everyone would have taken their shots. Their will come a team, or a player that wont act as classy as us and they will take their shot at him.
I dont like Ray Lewis very much, but do you think he would have stood their and watched this crap take place with out letting the other team know it wasn't going to happen? He would have taken his shot at someone.[/quote]
So in baseball a 5 point lead is enough to play safe? I've seen allot of teams score more than 5 points in an inning and would not want my team to sit on a five point lead.

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

What comes around goes around! This will come back to haunt this piece of shit organization, when Brady gets his arm or leg ripped off with a cheap shot!

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

[quote=SmootSmack;370713]Are you married skinsfan69?[/quote]

No, I'm not married. I DO NOT condone cheating. I just don't tend to judge my friends that have done it. I have friends on the male and female side that have done it. It doesn't make them bad people cause they are not. Maybe some are/were in real bad situations and turned to someone else to make them feel better. Say what you will but it happens all the time in life to good and bad people.

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

Do you tell your friends you don't condone what they do, or do you just turn the other way and tell them it's all cool? How good a friend are you to them, and them to you?

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

I'm not really that upset about it. The Skins knew what they were up against, they're both professional teams and the Skins didn't stop them, plain and simple. All they had to do was make plays, like they are paid to do. It's their own fault, the score got run up because they didn't do their jobs. You deserve whatever you get, you have 3 hours to stop them from doing it, if you can't, you have to deal with it.

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;370729]Skinsfan:

Just a question - do you're buddies wives know they cheated? Has any of them come clean? How would they feel if their wives cheated on them? If you're married how would you feel if you're wife cheated on you?

How does any of this relate to Belicheck? He is a whiny loser, always has been always will be. If he were treated with the disrespect he shows others, he would institute his own little vendatta and never forget the "wrong" (Eric Mangini anyone?). He sure as hell wouldn't treat the opposing party as someone "just playing football". Part of his whininess is his inability/refusal to admit that his interpretation of "Do unto others" only applies to others. To me this is unmanly and cowardly.

Sure, we have our defense should stop him. The Patriots proved it couldn't. Run the ball and run the clock out.[/quote]

Of course their wives don't know about it. None of them have come clean and they never will. One guy is a doctor and has two kids and a great wife. But he went to Vegas and got laid by another married women who wanted something different, just like he did. Does that make him a bad human being? No. He felt bad about it but what am I going to do? Not be friends with him?? I've known the guy for 16 years and was in his wedding.

If I were married and my wife cheated and I found out about it I'd be pissed. Who wouldn't?? I'd probably end it. But I have an old saying. What I don't know isn't going to hurt me. It's human nature to want to sleep with someone else and it happens more than you think. Do you think your wife or girlfriend doesn't think about someone else then your sadly mistaken. Whether they act on it is a different story.

Do you know why he hates Mangini so much? Cause Mangini tried to steal Deion Branch for them while he was holding out. That was a classless act on Mangini's part and from what I have heard he burned bridges with the people who gave him his 1st chance in coaching. You didn't see Clev. doing that crap did you?

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

I wish the Pats would of dropped more on us. We obviously need a wake up call and if we are going to be the contenders we claim to be, then we need to get back to Redskins football. Use this as motivation to destroy all that opposes us.

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

They started running up the score on their first series.

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

I can handle the loss, i expected it. if not this bad. But i didnt expect going for it on 4th and 1 at the 6, up by 40+, with 8 minutes left. I know Joe wouldnt do it.

Bill Belichick is forever on my shit list, up there with any Dallas Cowboy.

He's a cheater, he harbors cheaters(harrison), and he's a poor winner. It's going to come back and bite him in the ass one day. And i'll be watching.

Randall Godfrey is my homey for life. I support his public statements about it. And i attack Mike and Mike in the morning for putting Randal up for their "just shut up" award. Watch the end of that game, and you'll know what we're talking about faggots. We're not just complaining because we lost.

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

[quote=SmootSmack;370774]Do you tell your friends you don't condone what they do, or do you just turn the other way and tell them it's all cool? How good a friend are you to them, and them to you?[/quote]

These guys are some of my best friends that I have known since childhood. Lifetime friends. I know if we plan a golf trip or a Vegas trip then something is going to happen. That is just how it is with some of these guys. They want to get away and get something "new." And to be honest, we meet married women all the time that are willing to have some weekend fun. I use to bartend during my college years and it really opened my eyes up to how some women really are. To this day I trust very few of them.

I just turn the other way and I just choose not to make comments. It's their business if they want to fool around not mine and I don't make it my business. They talk to me about it sometimes. The only thing I say is why did you do it in the first place?? But other than that I just don't say much.

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

[quote=#56fanatic;370762]we can go on and on about what happened yesterday. Nothing anyone can say or do will change that. Hopefully we can put the many pieces together and put some good games together for the rest of the season. Maybe we can use the ass kicking as motivation for the rest of the season.
Regarding the "running up the score". I personally think that was very classless. I have played sports my entire life, and we are tought when we win, we win with class. What they did yesterday was far from it. In baseball you dont steal bases late in the game when you are up 5 or so runs. if you do, then the next guy is getting plunked in head, and the next guy. show up a pitcher by posing at the plate, and the next guy will pay for that, and when you come up again you will pay. Playing football when you are up that big in the 4th, you dont line up in shotgun and 5 wide and throw balls all over and down the field. If you want to go for it on 4th down, fine, but run the ball. make the D stop you, if they dont, then they dont. But they lined up and threw for the 1st downs from shotgun. The blitzed the balls off late in the game. I thought it was zero class by a coach who has zero class. He was being as ass after the game "what do you want me to do, kick a field goal?" I just wish for about 10 minutes, our coaching staff would have lost their class and made them pay for doing that crap. Unfortunately we dont have coaches like that. Had it been Buddy Ryan, Mike Ditka, Jerry Glanville, ect they would have taken Brady or who ever was taking the snaps out. I would have sent Sean Taylor after Brady every play, would not have cared about the 15 yard penalties, then Landry, then Marcus, then London. Everyone would have taken their shots. Their will come a team, or a player that wont act as classy as us and they will take their shot at him.
I dont like Ray Lewis very much, but do you think he would have stood their and watched this crap take place with out letting the other team know it wasn't going to happen? He would have taken his shot at someone.[/quote]

wait a minute, wait a minute...like I told someone a few minutes ago, we had 60 minutes to send these guys after brady and couldn't get it done. no reason to think that because we're pissed at them for running up the score, we would all of a sudden get a good shot on brady.

i guess we have different definitions of "class" though.

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;370782]These guys are some of my best friends that I have known since childhood. Lifetime friends. I know if we plan a golf trip or a Vegas trip then something is going to happen. That is just how it is with some of these guys. They want to get away and get something "new." And to be honest, we meet married women all the time that are willing to have some weekend fun. I use to bartend during my college years and it really opened my eyes up to how some women really are. To this day I trust very few of them.

I just turn the other way and I just choose not to make comments. It's their business if they want to fool around not mine and I don't make it my business. They talk to me about it sometimes. The only thing I say is why did you do it in the first place?? But other than that I just don't say much.[/QUOTE]

Have you decided not to get married because you know you would do the same as your friends, and you don't want to be like that?

I'm not even sure why this interests me. I'm just curious to know why someone would say it's ok for their married friends (who are also fathers correct?) to cheat? But at the same time you don't condone cheating.

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;370778]Of course their wives don't know about it. None of them have come clean and they never will. One guy is a doctor and has two kids and a great wife. But he went to Vegas and got laid by another married women who wanted something different, just like he did. Does that make him a bad human being? No. He felt bad about it but what am I going to do? Not be friends with him?? I've known the guy for 16 years and was in his wedding.

If I were married and my wife cheated and I found out about it I'd be pissed. Who wouldn't?? I'd probably end it. But I have an old saying. What I don't know isn't going to hurt me. It's human nature to want to sleep with someone else and it happens more than you think. Do you think your wife or girlfriend doesn't think about someone else then your sadly mistaken. Whether they act on it is a different story.

Do you know why he hates Mangini so much? Cause Mangini tried to steal Deion Branch for them while he was holding out. That was a classless act on Mangini's part and from what I have heard he burned bridges with the people who gave him his 1st chance in coaching. You didn't see Clev. doing that crap did you?[/QUOTE]

Dude, this thread shouldn't be about your character. Some folks have cleverly deflected the focus from the Skins a$$ whooping we got and deserved yesterday.

I have no problem with what BB did. Certainly not with Matt Cassel trying to showcase what he's got, either. BB's a cocky mo fo, but were he available, I'd take him over our has been coach anyday. Same goes for Gregg Williams - when Gibbs is finally gone this year (and I hope he is), I hope Grilliams is not the replacement we chose.

Also completely agree with the posters who said that Gibbs didn't believe we could win. No problem with Gibbs crediting other teams before a game (e.g., the Cleveland Browns, Oakland Raiders, 49ers, etc.) since anyone can beat anyone on a Sunday, but when Gibbs makes comments such as "yes, its unfortunate the Pats are on our schedule," he is acknowledging that we're not competent enough to come up a strategy to beat the Pats.

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;370785]Have you decided not to get married because you know you would do the same as your friends, and you don't want to be like that?

I'm not even sure why this interests me. I'm just curious to know why someone would say it's ok for their married friends (who are also fathers correct?) to cheat? But at the same time you don't condone cheating.[/QUOTE]

I dont think he said its ok for them to cheat. I think he just feels its none of his business what grown men do in their private life.

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;370778]Of course their wives don't know about it. None of them have come clean and they never will. One guy is a doctor and has two kids and a great wife. But he went to Vegas and got laid by another married women who wanted something different, just like he did. Does that make him a bad human being? No. He felt bad about it but what am I going to do? Not be friends with him?? I've known the guy for 16 years and was in his wedding.

If I were married and my wife cheated and I found out about it I'd be pissed. Who wouldn't?? I'd probably end it. But I have an old saying. What I don't know isn't going to hurt me. It's human nature to want to sleep with someone else and it happens more than you think. Do you think your wife or girlfriend doesn't think about someone else then your sadly mistaken. Whether they act on it is a different story.

Do you know why he hates Mangini so much? Cause Mangini tried to steal Deion Branch for them while he was holding out. That was a classless act on Mangini's part and from what I have heard he burned bridges with the people who gave him his 1st chance in coaching. You didn't see Clev. doing that crap did you?[/QUOTE]

Dude, this thread shouldn't be about your character. Some folks have cleverly deflected the focus from the Skins a$$ whooping we got yesterday.

I have no problem with what BB did. Certainly not with Matt Cassel trying to showcase what he's got, either. BB's a cocky mo fo, but were he available, I'd take him over our has been coach anyday. Same goes for Gregg Williams - his inability to adapt to what the Pats were doing yesterday was disturbing. Atleast send some of our thugs on blitzes to pop Brady in the mouth a few times - never mind the penalties or TDs...geez

Also completely agree with the posters who said that Gibbs didn't believe we could win. No problem with Gibbs crediting other teams before a game (e.g., the Cleveland Browns '04, Oakland Raiders '05, 49ers '05, etc.) since anyone can beat anyone on a Sunday, but when Gibbs makes comments such as "yes, its unfortunate the Pats are on our schedule," he is acknowledging that we're not competent enough to come up a strategy to beat the Pats.

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;370782]These guys are some of my best friends that I have known since childhood. Lifetime friends. I know if we plan a golf trip or a Vegas trip then something is going to happen. That is just how it is with some of these guys. They want to get away and get something "new." And to be honest, we meet married women all the time that are willing to have some weekend fun. I use to bartend during my college years and it really opened my eyes up to how some women really are. To this day I trust very few of them.

I just turn the other way and I just choose not to make comments. It's their business if they want to fool around not mine and I don't make it my business. They talk to me about it sometimes. The only thing I say is why did you do it in the first place?? But other than that I just don't say much.[/QUOTE]

Reminds me of a question posed in an Ethics class I took: if you know something is unethical, and another person is a victim of said unethical conduct, is it your duty to alert the victim? And, if you don't, what is the moral reasoning to justify that action? Just so you can still be friends with the perpetrator?

I don't know the answer -- just thought it was interesting to consider.

On the topic of Belichick:
I think mheisig said it best: Belichick wanted to humiliate us. That's not respectable in ANY forum. At work, if I know somebody is wrong about what they say or think, I will let it be known, but I will try my best to spare that person from embarrassment. That's called being considerate, and it has a lot to do with being human.

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

You gotta' watch that Smoot! He's a highjack SOB

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;370753]Okay let's be brutally honest for a minute, part of the issue, and correct me if wrong, is that we have a problem with Belichick as an individual and the perception we have him.

Secondly, if this were to happen at the amateur level, then I would lean on the side of calling character and class into question. But this is professional sports. Why is that important to consider here? Because we invest so much of our time and money looking for the best and the brightest. Drilling it into our kids from the time they can run and compete, "win at all costs" Give one hundred percent...leave it on the field. Well, the Pats have a higher standard for those cliches.

You see in the end, we want it both ways. We love to hear at the end of the big games, "no one deserved it more than so and so". But see, that's not the real world. Sometimes classy people win, and I'm okay with that. And sometimes assholes win and win big, and I'm okay with that too. To me "running up the score" isn't the big deal. As long as he wasn't intentionally cheating or trying to injure someone, then I'm okay with that. His eleven guys pushed our eleven guys back for 60 minutes. What's the problem?[/QUOTE]

Not that this is the point of the post or thread, but "win at all costs" is not what I'm teaching my kids.

I think your point about Belichick being and asshole and winning is absolutely right. I guess we just take it differently when an asshole wins. I agree, assholes win all the time, they succeed, make money, get famous and so on. That doesn't mean I like it or am ok with it. I like to see "good" guys like Peyton Manning and Tony Dungy or Joe Gibbs win, and who wouldn't?

I think it's an almost universal thing to want to see "good" people thrive and see the "evil" people fail. Doesn't always happen like that, but that doesn't mean I'm not pissed off, and rightly so, when a prick like Belichick not only wins, but makes it a point to humiliate his opponents at every turn.

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

Regarding assholes who win and/or succeed:

It comes down to one thing in my mind: life isn't fair, but that is no reason why it shouldn't be. When a child says, "that's no fair," a typical adult response is, "life's not fair." That is fallacious reasoning, and a totally worthless argument.

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

[quote=SmootSmack;370785]Have you decided not to get married because you know you would do the same as your friends, and you don't want to be like that?

I'm not even sure why this interests me. I'm just curious to know why someone would say it's ok for their married friends (who are also fathers correct?) to cheat? But at the same time you don't condone cheating.[/quote]

Um.. I think that's part of it. I don't want to cheat on my wife and I know I'm a little weak when it comes to women. And I certainly don't want to hurt anybody. I use to date someone for several years and I cheated and she found out about it. I'll never ever forget how I hurt this person. So I just have chosen not to do it yet. Am I a bad guy? No. I'm a nice guy and a good person who has a weakness for women. At least I can admit it

I never said it is ok for my married friends to cheat. It's not OK. I just don't judge their character because they choose to cheat.

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

[quote=mheisig;370793]Not that this is the point of the post or thread, but "win at all costs" is not what I'm teaching my kids.

I think your point about Belichick being and asshole and winning is absolutely right. I guess we just take it differently when an asshole wins. I agree, assholes win all the time, they succeed, make money, get famous and so on. That doesn't mean I like it or am ok with it. I like to see "good" guys like Peyton Manning and Tony Dungy or Joe Gibbs win, and who wouldn't?

I think it's an almost universal thing to want to see "good" people thrive and see the "evil" people fail. Doesn't always happen like that, but that doesn't mean I'm not pissed off, and rightly so, when a prick like Belichick not only wins, but makes it a point to humiliate his opponents at every turn.[/quote]

Agreed.

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;370795]Um.. I think that's part of it. I don't want to cheat on my wife and I know I'm a little weak when it comes to women. And I certainly don't want to hurt anybody. I use to date someone for several years and I cheated and she found out about it. I'll never ever forget how I hurt this person. So I just have chosen not to do it yet. Am I a bad guy? No. I'm a nice guy and a good person who has a weakness for women. At least I can admit it

I never said it is ok for my married friends to cheat. It's not OK. I just don't judge their character because they choose to cheat.[/QUOTE]

If you don't judge a person's character by their actions, particular whether they cheat or not, than what the hell DO you judge their character by? Or do you just arbitrarily determine that someone is a "good person" and stick with that notion regardless of the facts of their actions?

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

[quote=mheisig;370798]If you don't judge a person's character by their actions, particular whether they cheat or not, than what the hell DO you judge their character by? Or do you just arbitrarily determine that someone is a "good person" and stick with that notion regardless of the facts of their actions?[/quote]

Cheat's on his wife and lies to his family... [I]Eh, he's still a good guy in my book[/I].

Cheat's in a poker game or doesn't pay back the $20 he borrowed last week... [I]Eff that sorry Effer![/I]

But to tie it back to Belichick; does a guy being a good football coach outweigh the fact that he's a scumbag?

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

[QUOTE=mheisig;370793]Not that this is the point of the post or thread, but "win at all costs" is not what I'm teaching my kids.

I think your point about Belichick being and asshole and winning is absolutely right. I guess we just take it differently when an asshole wins. I agree, assholes win all the time, they succeed, make money, get famous and so on. That doesn't mean I like it or am ok with it. I like to see "good" guys like Peyton Manning and Tony Dungy or Joe Gibbs win, and who wouldn't?

I think it's an almost universal thing to want to see "good" people thrive and see the "evil" people fail. Doesn't always happen like that, but that doesn't mean I'm not pissed off, and rightly so, when a prick like Belichick not only wins, but makes it a point to humiliate his opponents at every turn.[/QUOTE]

I dont think A-holes win all the time. They win & lose like everyone else. Also, are you saying BB is evil? Thats a stretch if I ever heard one. A-hole and evil are not synonyms.

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;370795]Um.. I think that's part of it. I don't want to cheat on my wife and I know I'm a little weak when it comes to women. And I certainly don't want to hurt anybody. I use to date someone for several years and I cheated and she found out about it. I'll never ever forget how I hurt this person. So I just have chosen not to do it yet. Am I a bad guy? No. I'm a nice guy and a good person who has a weakness for women. At least I can admit it

I never said it is ok for my married friends to cheat. It's not OK. I just don't judge their character because they choose to cheat.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough. Not to get too deep here, but as a real friend do you think you have any obligation to be honest with your friends is wrong? That they're potentially destroying their families?

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

why were they going for it on 4th down? thats my only problem really

Re: Classless Coach Belichick
 

want all yall shut up about moral........i dont give a shit about who sleeping with who, we got our ass kicked......and if it bothers you............deal with it.....do what i do, i went out last night and cheated on my wife and girlfriend. now im have to explain to both when i get home