Re: Offer made on Chad
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins;441691]

Randall Godfrey is 35
Pierson Prioleau is 30
David Macklin is 30

We are the over the hill gang again.[/QUOTE]

Those three aren't on the team anymore.

Re: Offer made on Chad
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;441694]I think his last post was the only one that had any reasoning behind it. Also Macklin is gone. Prioleau and Godfrey are likely gone.[/QUOTE]

We are still counting on some old, injury prone guys this year. We have to cross our fingers and hope they hold up.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;441693]Hey Smootsmack, check this out. This is possibly one of the worst new threads I've ever seen, and it's available for free over at ES

[URL="http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245025"]EXTREMESKINS.com - Snyder getting laughed at by the league[/URL]

Anyway I'm going to say this until I'm blue in the face. Mike Brown turned down three first rounders, a second rounder, and a third rounder for the #3 pick in 1999. Personally I think our first round pick and our 3rd/1st next year are as safe as they've ever been. It's like riding a roller coaster, sure it's exciting and you could possibly die, but the chances of death are minimal.

So with that said, anyone worried that we're going to trade for CJ, breath easy. Mike Brown is as stubborn as they come.[/quote]

Who exactly is laughing at Snyder or the deal from the Skins side of things??

Everything I've seen so far seems to be saying the Bengals are the dumb ones here for turning this deal down.

But as usual, the bridge jumpers are out in full force over there. :doh:

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;441638]We're sending Ovechkin to the Blue Jackets as part of the deal as well. Also, we're going to become the official website of Chad Johnson. All screen names will now be preceeded with Ocho. And...don't get too comfortable with your first born either.[/quote]

Ovechkin is overrated so that's no big loss. And to be honest, Ocho Mooby doesn't sound half bad either. And I don't mind the whole first born thing because I don't have any kids so overall sounds good. Just to sweeten the deal we should throw in Laron Landry, safeties are overrated as well and at 23 he's past his peak for a safety.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

Are the Skins the only team with guys over 30?

I'd like to see how they compare with other teams before I slit my wrists.

Re: Offer made on Chad
 

[QUOTE=SeanTaylor21;441696]Those three aren't on the team anymore.[/QUOTE]

Those three are the least on my list, thus they are at the bottom.
Pete Kendall is a walking injury. John Jansen has not played a full season in a while. Phillip Daniels has a bad back.
What is your point?

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;441654]The Bengal fans think that they're going to get some super mega-offer on draft day, and a lot of them also think that the Redskins have a crappy passing game so CJ won't reach the incentives required to bump up next years 3rd rounder to a 1st rounder. It's kind of funny reading it because they're pretty confident that they're going to get a better deal on draft day.

Also if some of you guys think Mike Brown is going to budge think again. I heard a lot of references to an Akili Smith trade, so I decided to look into it. Mike Brown is as stubborn as they come.

[B]Cincinnati Bengals[/B]
Prior to his drafting there was a huge effort by the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans_Saints"]New Orleans Saints[/URL] head coach [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Ditka"]Mike Ditka[/URL] and management to get the Bengals' high draft position so the Saints could get [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricky_Williams"]Ricky Williams[/URL]. [B]The final offer, which was refused by the Bengals management, was for 9 draft picks, several extra in this year as well as many in the next year. [/B]Instead of taking the trade, the Bengals stuck with their initial decision to draft Smith, who, while undeniably athletic -- he had also played some professional baseball -- was still largely unproven, having only impressed at the college level for one season.

Smith missed large periods of [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_NFL_season"]1999[/URL] pre-season training with the Bengals due to contract disputes; many pundits later speculated that his absence from this short training period hurt him immensely in the seasons to come. Despite incredible shows of athleticism in his early games, he failed to grasp the Bengals playbook fully, and never established himself with the team. Throughout the four years he was with the Bengals, he would only start in 17 games, eventually leading to his outright release in the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_NFL_season"]2002[/URL] season.

Smith joined other highly drafted Bengals players such as [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Klingler"]David Klingler[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ki-Jana_Carter"]Ki-Jana Carter[/URL], and [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Warrick"]Peter Warrick[/URL] who as a result of injury, bad work ethic, bad management and coaching decisions, or simply poor performance, failed to live up to the high expectations that came with being selected early in the first round. Such picks are considered a major reason for the Bengals' dismal performances during the 1990s and early 2000s.

[B]Also found this:[/B]
[URL="http://bengals.enquirer.com/2000/01/16/ben_brown_calls_akili.html"]Brown calls Akili over Saints' 9 picks 'a wash'[/URL]
[B][I]Yet, Brown is still convinced the decision to draft Smith with the third pick and turn down the New Orleans Saints' offer of nine draft choices (first and third through seventh rounds in '99, first-rounders in 2000 and 2001 and a second in 2002) will hold up under the test of time.[/I][/B][/quote]

wow.... just wow.

Re: Offer made on Chad
 

[quote=Defensewins;441703]Those three are the least on my list, thus they are at the bottom.
Pete Kendall is a walking injury. John Jansen has not played a full season in a while. Phillip Daniels has a bad back.
What is your point?[/quote]

The point is why are we talking about guys who aren't even going to be on the team?

Re: Offer made on Chad
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins;441703]Those three are the least on my list, thus they are at the bottom.
Pete Kendall is a walking injury. John Jansen has not played a full season in a while. Phillip Daniels has a bad back.
What is your point?[/QUOTE]

Well, rightly or wrongly, the team has high hopes/expectations of Wilson on defense and to a lesser extent Heyer on offense.

Nonetheless, as I've said before trading our first for Johnson isn't going to prevent us from using other picks in the draft to address our offensive line needs. We could use both third rounders on OLs.

So what is your point?

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;441702]Are the Skins the only team with guys over 30?

I'd like to see how they compare with other teams before I slit my wrists.[/QUOTE]

I was looking for a link and ran across the following, which supposedly was published a few weeks back by USA Today. I can't vet its accuracy, but I'll look for the link. Note that it is based on the current rosters of each team, which will obviously change between now and September. Further note that a handful of guys on our team throw the curve (e.g., Kendall, Collins, Daniels). Nevertheless, take it for what it is worth.

Buffalo Bills
O - 26.4
D - 26.6
Total 26.5

Miami Dolphins
O - 26.1
D - 28.5
Total - 27.3

New England Patriots
O - 28.4
D - 29.1
Total - 28.7

New York Jets
O - 29
D - 27.1
Total - 28

Baltimore Ravens
O - 27.6
D - 29
Total - 28.3

Cincinnati Bengals
O - 29.2
D - 26
Total - 27.6

Cleveland Browns
O - 26.5
D - 26.8
Total - 26.6

Pittsburgh Steelers
O - 27.2
D - 29.2
Total - 28.2

Houston Texans
O - 27.7
D - 25.6
Total - 26.7

Indianapolis Colts
O - 28.7
D - 26.3
Total - 27.5

Jacksonville Jaguars
O - 28.2
D - 28.3
Total - 28.2

Tennessee Titans
O - 27.7
D - 27.9
Total - 27.8

Denver Broncos
O - 28
D - 27.9
Total 28

Kansas City Chiefs
O - 26.6
D - 27.5
Total - 27.1

Oakland Raiders
O - 26.5
D - 27
Total - 26.8

San Diego Chargers
O - 25.1
D - 27
Total - 26

Dallas Cowboys
O - 28.9
D - 27.9
Total - 28.4

New York Giants
O - 28.5
D - 28.3
Total - 28.4

Philadelphia Eagles
O - 28.8
D - 25.9
Total - 27.4

[B]Washington Redskins
O - 30
D - 28.6
Total - 29.3 [/B]

Chicago Bears
O - 29.3
D - 24.5
Total - 26.9

Detroit Lions
O - 28.5
D - 27.7
Total - 28.1

Green Bay Packers
O - 27.1
D - 27.5
Total - 27.3

Minnesota Vikings
O - 26.9
D - 27.9
Total - 27.4

Atlanta Falcons
O - 28.7
D - 27.3
Total - 28

Carolina Panthers
O - 27.8
D - 26.3
Total - 27

New Orleans Saints
O - 28.5
D - 28.5
Total - 28.5

Tampa Bay Buccaneers
O - 29
D - 28.4
Total - 28.7

Arizona Cardinals
O - 26.9
D - 27.3
Total - 27.1

San Francisco 49ers
O - 27.2
D - 28
Total - 27.6

Seattle Seahawks
O - 29.1
D - 27
Total - 28

St. Louis Rams
O - 28
D - 28
Total - 28

Youngest O
1. San Diego
2. Miami
3. Buffalo
4t.Oakland
4t. Cleveland
6. Kansas City
7t. Minnesota
7t. Arizona
9. Green Bay
10t. San Francisco
10t. Pittsburgh
12. Baltimore
13t. Houston
13t. Tennessee
15. Carolina
16t. St. Louis
16t. Denver
18. Jacksonville
19. New England
20t. Detroit Lions
20t. New Orleans
20t. Giants
23t. Atlanta
23t. Indianapolis
25. Philadelphia
26. Dallas
27t. Jets
27t. Tampa Bay
29. Seattle
30. Cincinnati
31. Chicago
[B]32. Washington [/B]

Youngest D
1. Chicago
2. Houston
3. Philadelphia
4. Cincinnati
5t. Carolina
5t. Indianapolis
7. Buffalo
8. Cleveland
9t. Oakland
9t. Seattle
9t. San Diego
12. Jets
13t. Atlanta
13t. Arizona
15t. Kansas City
15t. Green Bay
17. Detroit
18t. Denver
18t. Minnesota
18t. Tennessee
18t. Dallas
22t. St. Louis
22t. San Francisco
24t. Jacksonville
24t. Giants
26. Tampa Bay
27t. Miami
27t. New Orleans
[B]29. Washington [/B]
30. Baltimore
31. New England
32. Pittsburgh

Total
1. San Diego
2. Buffalo
3. Cleveland
4. Houston
5. Oakland
6. Chicago
7. Carolina
8t. Kansas City
8t. Arizona
10t. Miami
10t. Green Bay
12t. Minnesota
12t. Philadelphia
14. Indianapolis
15t. Cincinnati
15t. San Francisco
17. Tennessee
18t. St. Louis
18t. Atlanta
18t. Jets
18t. Denver
18t. Seattle
23. Detroit
24t. Jacksonville
24t. Pittsburgh
26. Baltimore
27t. Giants
27t. Dallas
29. New Orleans
30t. Tampa Bay
30t. New England
[B]32. Washington [/B]

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

Cool thanks for the numbers. Always nice to see some facts.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;441714]Cool thanks for the numbers. Always nice to see some facts.[/QUOTE]

Yeah. Again, I think it's important to note that a few players can really throw the curve. I'm not sure how meaningful those numbers are. Some of the youngest teams are some of the worst teams. But, it is what it is.

Again, I'll search for the link.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;441714]Cool thanks for the numbers. Always nice to see some facts.[/quote]
Facts, Smacts......BAH! :laughing-

Re: Offer made on Chad
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;441706]The point is why are we talking about guys who aren't even going to be on the team?[/QUOTE]

What I meant by 'what is your point' is that it is trivial that I included a couple of guys (non-starters) that are no longer on the team.We are still an older team.
Our FO is willing to send two high and potentially valuable draft picks for a 30 year old WR.
We have tried picking up a lot of veterans in the [B]Snyderatto[/B] era, Jeff George, Bruce Smith, Mark Carrier, Dana Stubblefield, Adam Archuleta to name just a few. How about trying something different and hanging on to all our picks and maybe drafting a DL in the first round for the first time in 11 years. No hard feelings.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

Stubby was signed on John Kent Cooke's watch. Trivial I know but let's keep the facts straight.

Re: Offer made on Chad
 

[quote=Defensewins;441691]I like your reasoning and posts on this thread.
I feel the same way, DL, OL, CB, S and LB are all much more pressing than WR.
We are getting old quickly at some of these positions and some we have very little quality depth.

Pete Kendall is 34 and injury prone
Phillip Daniels is 35 and injury prone
Randy Thomas is 32 and injury prone
Shawn Springs is 33 and injury prone
John Jansen is 32 and injury prone
Randall Godfrey is 35
Jason Fabini is 33
Casey Rabach is 30
Chris Samuels is 30
London Fletcher is 32
Mike Sellers is 32
Marcus Washington is 30
Pierson Prioleau is 30
David Macklin is 30


We are the over the hill gang again.[/quote]

i dont think macklin is on the team anymore and how is kendall injury prone, priloeau is a backup that hasnt signed back with us. Fabini and Godfrey dont start so I dont see where you are going with this.

Re: Offer made on Chad
 

[QUOTE=EARTHQUAKE2689;441732]i dont think macklin is on the team anymore and how is kendall injury prone, priloeau is a backup that hasnt signed back with us. Fabini and Godfrey dont start so I dont see where you are going with this.[/QUOTE]

Kendall has arthritic knees while Fabini and Godfrey are in their '30s. We have an aging team in desperate need of youth. Thus, we need to keep our draft picks to address that lack of youth at key spots.

Re: Offer made on Chad
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins;441691]I like your reasoning and posts on this thread.
I feel the same way, DL, OL, CB, S and LB are all much more pressing than WR.
We are getting old quickly at some of these positions and some we have very little quality depth.

Pete Kendall is 34 and injury prone
Phillip Daniels is 35 and injury prone
Randy Thomas is 32 and injury prone
Shawn Springs is 33 and injury prone
John Jansen is 32 and injury prone
Randall Godfrey is 35
Jason Fabini is 33
Casey Rabach is 30
Chris Samuels is 30
London Fletcher is 32
Mike Sellers is 32
Marcus Washington is 30
Pierson Prioleau is 30
David Macklin is 30

We are the over the hill gang again.[/QUOTE]

Wow. Those figures scream out for an infusion of youth especially at O-line. Sooner or later the front five will start dropping like flies. Well ... that actually already happened last season for a stretch. We have to start bolstering a restocking for the future. And we have to start [U]now[/U].

Re: Offer made on Chad
 

[quote=KB24;441741]Kendall has arthritic knees while Fabini and Godfrey are in their '30s. We have an aging team in desperate need of youth. Thus, we need to keep our draft picks to address that lack of youth at key spots.[/quote]


never said we didnt, just saying people need to stop panicing, the trade didnt even happen

ES Hit List
 

One of my favorite things to do on days where theres big news, (as Smootsmack alluded to before) especially news about events in progress, is to watch the number of new threads started by the guys over at ES. Some of my favorites from today are

[URL="http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245035"]EXTREMESKINS.com - Whatever trade Snyder does we overpay[/URL]
[URL="http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244957"]EXTREMESKINS.com - Cincy turns down two 1st rounders for Ocho Cinco (all things #85 trade - merged 4x)[/URL] - Merged 4 times!!!!
[URL="http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244967"]EXTREMESKINS.com - Dan & Vinny Duped Us / Danny please sell the team / #85 Offer Vent Thread (Merged)[/URL] - 3 Different threads!!!
[URL="http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245006"]EXTREMESKINS.com - Imagine what the potential offense will be like with Ocho Cinco[/URL]
[URL="http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245009"]EXTREMESKINS.com - Will Bengals File Tampering Charges?[/URL]
[URL="http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245038"]EXTREMESKINS.com - Did you REALLY think that Synder Could Go the WHOLE Offseason?[/URL]
[URL="http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245001"]EXTREMESKINS.com - how did the dolphins affect the draft (skins related)[/URL]
[URL="http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135884"]EXTREMESKINS.com - Redskins not all that popular among Canadians....[/URL]

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-redskins-draft&prov=ap&type=lgns]Change of tactics: Redskins put draft ahead of free agency - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

News article on Skins draft plans.

This article echoes a lot that has been said on this forum today in regard to drafting and free agency.

There are also some interesting facts on the Redskins past couple of drafts at the end.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;441702]Are the Skins the only team with guys over 30?

I'd like to see how they compare with other teams before I slit my wrists.[/quote]

What gets me is that when we are discussing players like Jason Campbell, whom we love, the main point is, "he is still young" and "we should give him a chance to grow", when he will be 27 at the end of the year but when we discuss players who's only a few year older who we may not want, like Chad Johnson, the age suddenly becomes a problem .

It is like a NFL player only have three years between growing and becoming too old to play at certain level.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=riggoraider;441816]What gets me is that when we are discussing players like Jason Campbell, whom we love, the main point is, "he is still young" and "we should give him a chance to grow", when he will be 27 at the end of the year but when we discuss players who's only a few year older who we may not want, like Chad Johnson, the age suddenly becomes a problem .

It is like a NFL player only have three years between growing and becoming too old to play at certain level.[/quote]Campbell plays Quarterback. They take the longest to develop, and are also useful into their late thirties.

Chad Johnson does not play Quarterback.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;441825]Campbell plays Quarterback. They take the longest to develop, and are also useful into their late thirties.

Chad Johnson does not play Quarterback.[/quote]

see my point?

Re: ES Hit List
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;441791]One of my favorite things to do on days where theres big news, (as Smootsmack alluded to before) especially news about events in progress, is to watch the number of new threads started by the guys over at ES. Some of my favorites from today are

[URL="http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245035"]EXTREMESKINS.com - Whatever trade Snyder does we overpay[/URL]
[URL="http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244957"]EXTREMESKINS.com - Cincy turns down two 1st rounders for Ocho Cinco (all things #85 trade - merged 4x)[/URL] - Merged 4 times!!!!
[URL="http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244967"]EXTREMESKINS.com - Dan & Vinny Duped Us / Danny please sell the team / #85 Offer Vent Thread (Merged)[/URL] - 3 Different threads!!!
[URL="http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245006"]EXTREMESKINS.com - Imagine what the potential offense will be like with Ocho Cinco[/URL]
[URL="http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245009"]EXTREMESKINS.com - Will Bengals File Tampering Charges?[/URL]
[URL="http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245038"]EXTREMESKINS.com - Did you REALLY think that Synder Could Go the WHOLE Offseason?[/URL]
[URL="http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245001"]EXTREMESKINS.com - how did the dolphins affect the draft (skins related)[/URL]
[URL="http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135884"]EXTREMESKINS.com - Redskins not all that popular among Canadians....[/URL][/quote]

LOL yeah I always find them to be amusing as well

Re: Offer made on Chad
 

[quote=Beemnseven;441748]Wow. Those figures scream out for an infusion of youth especially at O-line. Sooner or later the front five will start dropping like flies. Well ... that actually already happened last season for a stretch. We have to start bolstering a restocking for the future. And we have to start [U]now[/U].[/quote]

I agree. I'd really like to see us use at least 2 picks along the OL in this draft.

Hell I wouldn't even hate the idea of using a 2nd rounder. And then maybe a later round project type of pick.

Re: Offer made on Chad
 

[quote=Mattyk72;441845]I agree. I'd really like to see us use at least 2 picks along the OL in this draft.

Hell I wouldn't even hate the idea of using a 2nd rounder. And then maybe a later round project type of pick.[/quote]

I predict an 80% chance that the team takes two O-lineman if they wait till the 3rd-comp pick to take an Offensive Lineman. I say this because the team has a history of taking two guys at the same position late when they have a need that wasn't addressed earlier in the draft. (Montgomery and Kedric Golston/ Dallas Startz and HB Blades/ [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Molinaro"]Jim Molinaro[/URL] and Mark Wilson). Of course most of these were 5th round/6th round combinations where as this year I would expect to see a 3rd/5th combo

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;441692]He was too busy smoking crack or something. :)[/QUOTE]

Ocho Cinco and his agent be the ones busy smokin crack!

Sorry, but my fundamental aversion to Chad Johnson is that he is not a "Redskin" and we have other needs to address with our draft picks. We have plenty of vets at WR, I'd like to have a young, hungry one in there that we can think long long term with. If he was on the Skins and he was acting like he is now, disrespecting his team and coach, it would be embarrassing, and Snyder would send him off to Laveranues Lavar Land. Also, ....the huge contract, ...we need to look to the future. Just my opinion.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[QUOTE=riggoraider;441816]What gets me is that when we are discussing players like Jason Campbell, whom we love, the main point is, "he is still young" and "we should give him a chance to grow", when he will be 27 at the end of the year but when we discuss players who's only a few year older who we may not want, like Chad Johnson, the age suddenly becomes a problem .

It is like a NFL player only have three years between growing and becoming too old to play at certain level.[/QUOTE]

IMO, there is a world of a difference between a 26 year old and a 30 year old. Four years is an awful long time in terms of a football career. Four years ago: Spurrier had just left the building, Trung Canidate was on the roster, Patrick Ramsey was competing for the starting QB role, Bruce Smith had just broken the sack record, Sean Taylor wasn't on the roster, Laron Landry was a freshman in college and Jon Jansen was one of the most dominant right tackles in football. The following players were coming off of Pro Bowl berths: Steve McNair, Stephen Davis, Priest Holmes, Fred Beasley, Keenan McCardell, Dexter Coakley, Peter Boulware, Troy Vincent, Jerry Azumah, Brock Marion, Aeneas Williams, Jerome Woods. A lot happens in 4 years.

At 26, a wideout is on the cusp of entering the prime of his career. At 30, a wideout is about to see his skills erode. Would you buy a stock if you knew it's value would only decrease over the coming years? If not, why would you trade for a player who is at the apex of his career and is only going to decrease in value?

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

I know Matty and others have mentioned this before, but Urlacher is really amping up his demands, promising to boycott minicamp if not given a new contract, in spite of signing a deal only 3 or so years ago making him one of the highest paid LB's in football. And yet there have been no character assaults or derogatory nicknames directed toward him.

Not enough people point out that the Bengals have squandered a Superbowl roster in only 3 short years, and are inarguably one of the worst run teams in football. Why can't Chad's trade requests be related to him wanting to win?

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;441645]Larry Michael is Satan:

I agree we shouldn't make the trade, but I think you're overstating your case. Chad Johnson has put up good numbers with a variety of QBs under center not named Carson Palmer. Chad is no Jerry Rice, but he's certainly among the best and most productive wideouts who are currently playing ball. As for our o-line, barring injury, we're in pretty good shape for 2008.[/quote]

And you just said the magic words. Barring injury!! What are the chances of Kendall playing 16 games on crappy knees? Also we can't expect Jansen to play at the level he did a few years ago. He's missed 2 out of the last 4 seasons. So Heyer or someone else needs to be ready. Also Thomas has missed time 2/4 years and when he's out it really seems to hurt the line. Badly. And I'd hate to even think what would happen if Samuels went down. So IMO we have got to stop chasing expensive FA's and start building quality depth.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

A lot of players hold out for better deals and, provided they are not Redskins, I don't really care. What kills me is how Chad is the consummate "Leon Budweiser" receiver that represents everything that is wrong with football. On several occasions Chad Johnson drew personal fouls for excessive celebration, despite knowing such celebrations would cost his team field position. Chad often planned those celebrations well in advance, knowing full well that he would draw those little yellow flags. To draw a flag is forgiveable. To repeatedly plan celebrations that will undoubtedly hurt the team is inexcusable in my book.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

Just saw on ESPNews that we were denied by the cardinals for a possible Boldin trade. Same picks were offered as in the CJ deal.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;441897]A lot of players hold out for better deals and, provided they are not Redskins, I don't really care. What kills me is how Chad is the consummate "Leon Budweiser" receiver that represents everything that is wrong with football. On several occasions Chad Johnson drew personal fouls for excessive celebration, despite knowing such celebrations would cost his team field position. Chad often planned those celebrations well in advance, knowing full well that he would draw those little yellow flags. To draw a flag is forgiveable. To repeatedly plan celebrations that will undoubtedly hurt the team is inexcusable in my book.[/QUOTE]

But he produces...consistently. And he's often the first one to practice, and the last one out. And, fair or not, he's an effing saint compared to many of his teammates. What he's done to "hurt" his team shouldn't negate all he's done to help his team and it's far less egregious than what many of his own teammates have done.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;441902]But he produces...consistently. And he's often the first one to practice, and the last one out. And, fair or not, he's an effing saint compared to many of his teammates. What he's done to "hurt" his team shouldn't negate all he's done to help his team and it's far less egregious than what many of his own teammates have done.[/QUOTE]

I can't deny that he has immense talent, has a great work ethic, and produces. I remember reading quotes from various Bengals players and coaches a few years back and, to a man, they all said Chad works his ass off.

And Chad is certainly no Pacman. I've never heard of Chad getting into any trouble with the law. But, while Chad is not in the class of Pacman-esque turds, he is in the class of T.O. turds. I simply don't like the guy and, admittedly, I'm probably allowing that bias to color my view of the trade talks.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;441606]Are you more upset that it's a trade for Chad Johnson or a trade of the pick?



What Cerrato had said from the start was that they didn't expect to be big players in free agency this year (which we weren't) but that he is always looking for ways to improve the team and would entertain trade possibilities if he feels it would improve the team.



It ain't braggin' if you can back it up :)



I've said this before but I'll say it again. Why don't we even remotely consider that Zorn is very familiar with Hackett, and that's why we didn't sign him. That maybe, jussssst maybe, Zorn said "Hey, this guy has potential and can contribute but I've been around him every day for the past several years and keep this, this, that, and that in mind. And this is how I see him fitting in and this is what he's worth." (and it's not as much as the fans think)[/quote]

To answer your question- I'm more upset it's a proposed trade of draft picks than I am that it's a trade for Chad. CJ is awesome. But trading our draft picks has not panned out for us in the past.

I understand trading for CJ would improve the team on paper. But again, I worry about bringing a mouth like his into an already united locker room with a rookie head coach. Not to mention we're giving up a significant amount in both this and next year's draft to do so. I know he's awesome, but it just worries me.

You bring up a good point about Hackett. Surely Zorn has inside info on him and maybe he's not worth the cash. I just think there are other routes we can take to bring in a big WR without trading high draft picks and signing a 30 year old guy with some baggage. Don't get me wrong, I think Ocho is a hell of a player, I'm just torn about acquiring him for multiple reasons.

Re: Offer made on Chad
 

[QUOTE=Skinny Tee;441386]Thank God that the Bengals can save us from ourselves.

How dopey is it to come this far with all your picks just to hand them out at the last second. So much for draft disicipline.

This annoys me and doesn't bode well for who they think is going to be available with the 21st pick in the draft. One week before the draft they want to heave their draft stratedy out the window, I'm annoyed.[/QUOTE]

Got that right!

The inability of who ever is drafting to identify unproven talent leads to over spending, and over compensating for established players, it seems we really never learn our lesson? Let's bring in a ME player, lets make him happy with a brand new contract, and by the way lets give up what could be 2 #1's in the process to a team that he has already basically pigeon holed into having to deal him! I guess we have to sign a WR every year or we can't sleep at night. To all who thought we may have turned the corner as far as our approach to building a team with the draft? Happy belated April fools.

By the way lets see how much everyone loves him here in DC when he starts running his mouth about how he's not seeing the ball? He has a top flight QB in cinnci, does anyone believe Campbell is going to make this clown happy? I don't see it. I have to say Cinnci is crazy not to make that deal, perhaps we have found a team who's personnel dept is actually dumber than ours?

Re: Offer made on Chad
 

[QUOTE=HOGTIMUS PRIME;441915]Got that right!

The inability of who ever is drafting to identify unproven talent leads to over spending, and over compensating for established players, it seems we really never learn our lesson? Let's bring in a ME player, lets make him happy with a brand new contract, and by the way lets give up what could be 2 #1's in the process to a team that he has already basically pigeon holed into having to deal him! I guess we have to sign a WR every year or we can't sleep at night. To all who thought we may have turned the corner as far as our approach to building a team with the draft? Happy belated April fools.

By the way lets see how much everyone loves him here in DC when he starts running his mouth about how he's not seeing the ball? He has a top flight QB in cinnci, does anyone believe Campbell is going to make this clown happy? I don't see it. I have to say Cinnci is crazy not to make that deal, perhaps we have found a team who's personnel dept is actually dumber than ours?[/QUOTE]

1. We're talking about trading one pick this year for one of the game's most talented WRs

2. We are not throwing all our picks away

3. Why is it not even remotely considered that maybe, just maybe, Chad Johnson will help Jason Campbell get to that next level. That maybe, just maybe, a stud receiver like Chad Johnson would be the best thing to happen to Campbell?

4. Too many people have way too narrow an understanding of how to build a team

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

I'm less and less excited about CJ or any other vet WR coming to town as part of a big trade. There are 5 1st round quality OTs in the draft with another 2 inside o-lineman and another 4 top tier DTs. Last year proved beyond any reasonable doubt we need young talent at these positions and it's very hard to believe all of the top guys will be gone by the 21st pick. CJ carries a huge risk factor because of his personality w/ the loss of picks we desperately need. For instance, when (not if) our current stock of lineman become injured during the season the downside is huge. Meanwhile, the upside to CJ is questionable and we know exactly what we're giving up: young talent where we need it.

Re: Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)
 

The other thing I keep thinking is that w/ quality reinforcement on the line we can let Cooley get out and make plays. It's like killing two birds w/ one stone: a better, younger line and a better passing game. Otherwise, we pass on strengthening the line and put all hope in a WR that may or may not pan out.

I'm also worried about CJ working w/ JC. He's gotten spoiled from Palmer, an elite passer, throwing him perfect bombs. I'd be very concerned that JC's accuracy issues would become a source of contention and drama.