Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

So Palin's 17 year old daughter is pregnant. Personally, I don't consider this to be a story at all but people are talking about it so there you go. [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02PALINDAY.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin[/url]

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=djnemo65;470193]So Palin's 17 year old daughter is pregnant. Personally, I don't consider this to be a story at all but people are talking about it so there you go. [URL]http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02PALINDAY.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin[/URL][/quote]


Not a story? .... I'm sure it's quite a story for that 17 year old girl who just had her news spread all over the country/world...

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=hesscl34;470195]Not a story? .... I'm sure it's quite a story for that 17 year old girl who just had her news spread all over the country/world...[/quote]

Huh? Are you saying that you don't think this should have received the media attention it has? Because if you are we agree. And if you aren't then I really have no idea what you are talking about.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

the only reason it became a story, is because there were reports that her 5 month old son was conceived by her daughter

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

i wish g.w.bush could remain pres. for another 8 years. he's done a fine job.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Believe me, this is far from a non-story. Through the prism of our every day ordinary lives, yes, it's a non-story and should be none of our business. But this will impact the race, no doubt. Obama, Biden, and McCain have been dragged through the media since they started running for office over a year ago, and now it's Palin turn. I really hate it.

Unfortuntately this is where we are with our politics these days. Nothing and no one is off limits. I was glad to see Obama put the media in check and told them to back off the Palin story and leave it alone.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=12thMan;470109]Okay, I can dig that. But that definition is a little too abstract for me. What about those who don't or can't serve in the military. How are they to prove their love or defend our country? Surely that would leave out hundreds of millions of Americans, wouldn't it? Another thing, since you cite the Declaration of Independence, The Constitution, The Bill of Rights, how does the institution of slavery factor into this and more recently, the Jim Crow era, as it relates to our founding fathers and their ideals of sacracfice and service?

I'm not trying to stir the pot, just trying to see exactly when did America start loving and defending other Americans - all Americans.[/quote]
12th, let me for one say that I am glad that we are having this discussion about impotant things that we feel very passionate about. Discussions like this will only educate people. And that is how we can learn more about each other.

Now to comment about your above post. As far as those who do not or can't serve our military. I don't have a problem with those people. And I didn't say that was a prerequisite to becoming commander-in-chief. But, my beef is with those people who are disrespectful to the flag and our country with their words and deeds.

Also, my parents would say that you know alot about a person by the type of people that they hang around. And all that I said earlier is that I think Obama hangs out with some suspect people who I think are influential to his thinking.

You referenced the institution of slavery. Let me be one of the many people to say that that was a terrible thing that happened in our nations past. And unfortunately that was going on before our nation really had a solvent government. Still this does not excuse it at all. It is however too bad that it has taken us hundreds of years to really get the We The People thing right.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=12thMan;470144]So I take it you think I'm an okay guy?

But seriously, I've heard O answer and address these concernes at least 10 or 15 times, and I must say, I'm honestly satisfied. Especially his affiliation with William Ayers. But to your point, it is/was a reason to be concerned.[/quote]
Obviously, I do not know you, and have little to make a decision with.
I would expect O' to provide as good an answer to these questions as he can muster! and tout them at EVERY oppurtunity. You would not expect less. I am sure.
Unfortunately, I think many do not take such a responsible approach as yourself

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=4mrusmc;470233]12th, let me for one say that I am glad that we are having this discussion about impotant things that we feel very passionate about. Discussions like this will only educate people. And that is how we can learn more about each other.

Now to comment about your above post. As far as those who do not or can't serve our military. I don't have a problem with those people. And I didn't say that was a prerequisite to becoming commander-in-chief. But, my beef is with those people who are disrespectful to the flag and our country with their words and deeds.

Also, my parents would say that you know alot about a person by the type of people that they hang around. And all that I said earlier is that I think Obama hangs out with some suspect people who I think are influential to his thinking.

You referenced the institution of slavery. Let me be one of the many people to say that that was a terrible thing that happened in our nations past. And unfortunately that was going on before our nation really had a solvent government. Still this does not excuse it at all. It is however too bad that it has taken us hundreds of years to really get the We The People thing right.[/quote]

I didn't bring up slavery to make anyway feel sorry, but that it's just a chapter, a big chapter, of our nation's history. And as great as our Constitution is, we as a nation have, at times, struggled to reconcile our history of injustice and the what the Constitution stands for.

As far as Obama's friends or buddies. It's well documented that when Ayer's committed whatever it is he's accused of, Obama was eight years old. Had Obama been a friend of Ayer's at that time and espoused those same beliefs and actions, then I'd have a major problem with it. But he doesn't. This man, while still a little off his rocker, just isn't one of his close friends or colleagues. And if we are going to judge one relationship, then let's judge them in the context of all of his relationships.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=dmek25;470036]this pick was strictly politics as usual. reaching out for the Hilliary supporters. the first thing i thought was, is this the best they could do? with her lack of experience, she makes Obama look worldly. there is no way in hell i want her one step away from running my country. almost laughable[/quote]
I guess that Obama's pick was one of politics and just more of the same as we have gotten from Biden and his spending for years. It seems that the dems are scared of McCains pick and the lack of Obamas movment in the polls behind thier convention. Even Kerry had a 7% jump in the polls after his convention and Obama's didn't move at all. We still hear his call for change but see the same old Biden as his VP.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=12thMan;469784]You know, this is going to be very interesting. I wouldn't say Dems are on edge though. We just had a great convention and perhaps swayed a good chunk of Hillary supporters our way. So that was a plus. But I think Palin will go through an intense public vetting for the next 60 days.

I think the country is captivated with this pick though. If anyone, the GOP are on edge and hoping she can deliver. But the thing Dems, especially Obama and Biden, have to be careful about is the issue of gender and not coming accross as disrespectful or talking down to her.[/quote]
Well if you look at the current polls after your convention Kerry did better in his run than Obama.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Getting back on topic, I see that abstinence only education has [URL="http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13050.html"]worked very well for the Palins[/URL]. Go family values! Yay!

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;470316]Getting back on topic, I see that abstinence only education has [URL="http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13050.html"]worked very well for the Palins[/URL]. Go family values! Yay![/quote]

Another gem from that article:

[B]"But Palin also is revered by the conservative base for her fierce opposition to abortion..."[/B]

What for? Don't conservatives realize that the vice-president has absolutely no power to do anything about abortion whatsoever?

Abortion isn't going anywhere in this country. Yet all a republican has to do is say the right things on that topic and all is right with the world for evangelicals. The thumpers had eight years of a pro-life president, and six of those years with a republican majority in Congress. What were they able to do about abortion? NOTHING.

Nevermind actual results -- just regurgitate the talking points.

Boy, talk about having a voting bloc in your back pocket no matter what.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=djnemo65;470205]Huh? Are you saying that you don't think this should have received the media attention it has? Because if you are we agree. And if you aren't then I really have no idea what you are talking about.[/quote]

Yes, we agree.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Beemnseven;470332]Another gem from that article:

[B]"But Palin also is revered by the conservative base for her fierce opposition to abortion..."[/B]

What for? Don't conservatives realize that the vice-president has absolutely no power to do anything about abortion whatsoever?

Abortion isn't going anywhere in this country. Yet all a republican has to do is say the right things on that topic and all is right with the world for evangelicals. The thumpers had eight years of a pro-life president, and six of those years with a republican majority in Congress. What were they able to do about abortion? NOTHING.

Nevermind actual results -- just regurgitate the talking points.

Boy, talk about having a voting bloc in your back pocket no matter what.[/quote]
Yea, and the Dems don't have any voters in their pack pocket.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Beemnseven;470332]Another gem from that article:

[B]"But Palin also is revered by the conservative base for her fierce opposition to abortion..."[/B]

What for? Don't conservatives realize that the vice-president has absolutely no power to do anything about abortion whatsoever?

Abortion isn't going anywhere in this country. Yet all a republican has to do is say the right things on that topic and all is right with the world for evangelicals. The thumpers had eight years of a pro-life president, and six of those years with a republican majority in Congress. What were they able to do about abortion? NOTHING.

Nevermind actual results -- just regurgitate the talking points.

Boy, talk about having a voting bloc in your back pocket no matter what.[/quote]

Yeah they should give that battle up. They probably don't care all that much about the issue anyways.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Well if there was ever a time to push for a constitutional amendment to ban abortion it was after the 2004 election, with Republicans controlling essentially everything under the sun. What did we get instead? Privatized social security.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=djnemo65;470361]Well if there was ever a time to push for a constitutional amendment to ban abortion it was after the 2004 election, with Republicans controlling essentially everything under the sun. What did we get instead? Privatized social security.[/quote]
First off even if congress and the president did pass a law making abortion illegal the Supreme Court would have the final say and I don't see them over turning their prior decission. As far as SS is concerned all you have to do is look at Galviston (spelling) Texas private system to see how much better it performs over the current broken system.

Even Congress has their own seperate retirment plain which is not in the current SS plain that they force us into.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=firstdown;470378]First off even if congress and the president did pass a law making abortion illegal the Supreme Court would have the final say and I don't see them over turning their prior decission. As far as SS is concerned all you have to do is look at Galviston (spelling) Texas private system to see how much better it performs over the current broken system.

Even Congress has their own seperate retirment plain which is not in the current SS plain that they force us into.[/quote]

I keep hearing about Galveston health care system, would you be so kind to point me to information about their private health care system?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=firstdown;470260]Well if you look at the current polls after your convention Kerry did better in his run than Obama.[/quote]

True, but this really is a different election. Around this time during the Kerry campaign he was getting swift boated left and right. Not so this time around.I think the polls that really matter right now are the ones in about four battle ground states. The nationwide polls, especially, the Gallop where BHO is up like 7 points, can be a bit misleading on any given day.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=firstdown;470351]Yea, and the Dems don't have any voters in their pack pocket.[/quote]

I didn't say they didn't. Both parties have constituents who will never leave no matter what.

And that's the problem.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=FRPLG;470353]Yeah they should give that battle up. They probably don't care all that much about the issue anyways.[/quote]

Oh I'm sure they care -- most evangelicals care so much about that issue that nothing else matters. A candidate could be a communist and it wouldn't matter to the thumpers as long as that candidate is anti-choice.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

Slightly off-topic for a second,

I thought you'd appreciate this saden.

[url=http://tighroslin.com/]Tigh / Roslin 2008![/url]

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

I personally have not heard anything out of either camp regarding immigration, and attendant problems it is immersing us in. Anybody find that...........quizzical?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;470384]I keep hearing about Galveston health care system, would you be so kind to point me to information about their private health care system?[/quote]
It's actually privatized Social Security

[URL="http://www.ncpa.org/ba/ba215.html"]NCPA - BA #215 - Some Americans Already Have Privatized social Security[/URL]

[URL="http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/2005-03-15-benefits-reform-galveston_x.htm"]USATODAY.com - A model for Social Security reform[/URL]

If you really want some good light reading (LOL):

[URL]http://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v62n1/v62n1p47.pdf[/URL]

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=SmootSmack;470438]Slightly off-topic for a second,

I thought you'd appreciate this saden.

[URL="http://tighroslin.com/"]Tigh / Roslin 2008![/URL][/quote]

That's hilarious :rofl:

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=saden1;470460]That's hilarious :rofl:[/quote]

The similarities are kind of uncanny aren't they? I think McCain should start wearing an eyepatch

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

This story about Palin's daughter is a non-story.

McCain knew before choosing her. It really has no reflection on the mother since she's already proven her values by choosing not to kill her child with Down Syndrome.

It's a family issue and should remain that way.

Besides, Obama doesn't want to open up HIS family matters for debate I'm sure.

Anyone who has had sex before marriage really has no room to criticize her daughter, because if you had sex as a teen, you could easily have found yourself in the same situation.

Obama said himself that at her age, he was "enthusiastically experimenting with drugs" and binge drinking.

The debate should remain about the candidates.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

how come when its an issue about a republican, it should be off limits? John McCain said more then once how ugly Chelsea Clinton was. that's OK? the issue is Palin preaching abstinence, and her own daughter doesn't believe in it. she cant get her own kids to buy into it, why should anyone else?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=dmek25;470535]how come when its an issue about a republican, it should be off limits? John McCain said more then once how ugly Chelsea Clinton was. that's OK? the issue is Palin preaching abstinence, and her own daughter doesn't believe in it. she cant get her own kids to buy into it, why should anyone else?[/quote]
I don't understand it D, My son's don't think everything I say, and want them to do is correct.
Can you explain that?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

well, the last time i checked, you weren't running for public office. all im saying is, all your ducks better be in a row, if you want to be the vice president/ president. because when push comes to shove, all is fair in love and war

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=dmek25;470535]how come when its an issue about a republican, it should be off limits? John McCain said more then once how ugly Chelsea Clinton was. that's OK? the issue is Palin preaching abstinence, and her own daughter doesn't believe in it. she cant get her own kids to buy into it, why should anyone else?[/quote]

Holy crap, so she wasn't married. I always thought that teaching abstinence alone was bull shit. I'll be the first to admit that I have some weird political views. I agree with the conseratives on defense and the economy. However on the social issues I'm definately more liberal including marajuanna legalization (even though I don't smoke), stem cell research (an issue that McCain supports), gay marriage (even though I'm not gay), and the banning of ID from class rooms. I still don't know what to think about abortion though right now I'm barely pro-life (51-49). However at the same time I am appaled about how conseratives want to restrict distribution of the morning after pill.

I mean a fetus reportedly feeling pain and crying during an abortion is apalling however preventing conception the day after (or minutes after if you're prepared) is a totally different story and just because some religous nutjobs are using the Bible to reconcile their beliefs doesn't mean the rest of us should suffer in a country who's social views presumeably range mainly from moderate Judeo-Christian to secular humanist (a nicer way of saying atheist or agnostic). In fact I get chills everytime I see the John McCain, Judeo-Christian speech. I wondered if he's that desperate votes or if he's really that nieve when it comes to the history of his own country.

Another funny thing I find about the Republicans and McCain is they want to stop Gay Marriage, yet their most feasable alternative to abortion, adoption, isn't helped by the fact that many foster kids (as many as 100,000 in the US) can't find a home.

Anyway back to my main point. If I read right according to a UN report the United States has some of the highest rates of teen pregnacy and abortions among first world countries especially when compared to most of Western Europe. The abstinence thing is not working and restricting access to contreception and proper sex education isn't helping.

I know some people will find issue with my post and I'm more then willing to debate so long as it doesn't lead to you calling me an idiot for no good reason or typing in all caps. And to think I use to be apathetic :( those were the days.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=dmek25;470551]well, the last time i checked, you weren't running for public office. all im saying is, all your ducks better be in a row, if you want to be the vice president/ president. because when push comes to shove, all is fair in love and war[/quote]

Fine, point out that Obama used drugs as a teen and that Palin's kid is preggers and that McCain killed cats for fun when he was 14 and Obama kicked puppies on Christmas morning when he was 12.

Jimmy cracked corn and I don't care.

I vote on the issues, their demonstrated record of service, and my own personal evaluation of their readiness to command the military. If you're not doing the same, I suggest you get your priorities straight.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;470562]Holy crap, so she wasn't married. I always thought that teaching abstinence alone was bull shit. I'll be the first to admit that I have some weird political views. I agree with the conseratives on defense and the economy. However on the social issues I'm definately more liberal including marajuanna legalization (even though I don't smoke), stem cell research (an issue that McCain supports), gay marriage (even though I'm not gay), and the banning of ID from class rooms. I still don't know what to think about abortion though right now I'm barely pro-life (51-49). However at the same time I am appaled about how conseratives want to restrict distribution of the morning after pill.

I mean a fetus reportedly feeling pain and crying during an abortion is apalling however preventing conception the day after (or minutes after if you're prepared) is a totally different story and just because some religous nutjobs are using the Bible to reconcile their beliefs doesn't mean the rest of us should suffer in a country who's social views presumeably range mainly from moderate Judeo-Christian to secular humanist (a nicer way of saying atheist or agnostic). In fact I get chills everytime I see the John McCain, Judeo-Christian speech. I wondered if he's that desperate votes or if he's really that nieve when it comes to the history of his own country.

Another funny thing I find about the Republicans and McCain is they want to stop Gay Marriage, yet their most feasable alternative to abortion, adoption, isn't helped by the fact that many foster kids (as many as 100,000 in the US) can't find a home.

Anyway back to my main point. If I read right according to a UN report the United States has some of the highest rates of teen pregnacy and abortions among first world countries especially when compared to most of Western Europe. The abstinence thing is not working and restricting access to contreception and proper sex education isn't helping.

I know some people will find issue with my post and I'm more then willing to debate so long as it doesn't lead to you calling me an idiot for no good reason or typing in all caps. And to think I use to be apathetic :( those were the days.[/quote]

Just a side note, it's almost uncanny how aligned you and I are on the issues. I'm very to the right on foreign policy and the economy, and quite left on most social issues, with the exception of abortion. Didn't think I'd find too many people that line up so crooked like I do.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=dmek25;470535]how come when its an issue about a republican, it should be off limits? John McCain said more then once how ugly Chelsea Clinton was. that's OK? the issue is Palin preaching abstinence, and her own daughter doesn't believe in it. she cant get her own kids to buy into it, why should anyone else?[/quote]
That is a down right lie about McCain and you cannot find any quotes from McCain saying that about Chelsea.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;470562]Holy crap, so she wasn't married. I always thought that teaching abstinence alone was bull shit. I'll be the first to admit that I have some weird political views. I agree with the conseratives on defense and the economy. However on the social issues I'm definately more liberal including marajuanna legalization (even though I don't smoke), stem cell research (an issue that McCain supports), gay marriage (even though I'm not gay), and the banning of ID from class rooms. I still don't know what to think about abortion though right now I'm barely pro-life (51-49). However at the same time I am appaled about how conseratives want to restrict distribution of the morning after pill.

I mean a fetus reportedly feeling pain and crying during an abortion is apalling however preventing conception the day after (or minutes after if you're prepared) is a totally different story and just because some religous nutjobs are using the Bible to reconcile their beliefs doesn't mean the rest of us should suffer in a country who's social views presumeably range mainly from moderate Judeo-Christian to secular humanist (a nicer way of saying atheist or agnostic). In fact I get chills everytime I see the John McCain, Judeo-Christian speech. I wondered if he's that desperate votes or if he's really that nieve when it comes to the history of his own country.

Another funny thing I find about the Republicans and McCain is they want to stop Gay Marriage, yet their most feasable alternative to abortion, adoption, isn't helped by the fact that many foster kids (as many as 100,000 in the US) can't find a home.

Anyway back to my main point. If I read right according to a UN report the United States has some of the highest rates of teen pregnacy and abortions among first world countries especially when compared to most of Western Europe. The abstinence thing is not working and restricting access to contreception and proper sex education isn't helping.

I know some people will find issue with my post and I'm more then willing to debate so long as it doesn't lead to you calling me an idiot for no good reason or typing in all caps. And to think I use to be apathetic :( those were the days.[/quote]

What do you mean exactly by McCain wants to stop Gay Marriage?

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=firstdown;470568]That is a down right lie about McCain and you cannot find any quotes from McCain saying that about Chelsea.[/quote]

If he's talking about the "Janet Reno is her father" joke, then I'm fairly certain it's true.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Schneed10;470567]Just a side note, it's almost uncanny how aligned you and I are on the issues. I'm very to the right on foreign policy and the economy, and quite left on most social issues, with the exception of abortion. Didn't think I'd find too many people that line up so crooked like I do.[/quote]

That makes three of us.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=Schneed10;470567]Just a side note, it's almost uncanny how aligned you and I are on the issues. I'm very to the right on foreign policy and the economy, and quite left on most social issues, with the exception of abortion. Didn't think I'd find too many people that line up so crooked like I do.[/quote]

It's actually a more true conservative bent. Gov't = stay out of our lives...no taxes and don't tell me how tolive. I think we roll closely also. I vote mainly on who has the best cahnce not to do something insanely bad. Like raise taxes on anyone.

Re: Update: McCain Selects Gov. Sarah Palin as Running Mate
 

[quote=firstdown;470568]That is a down right lie about McCain and you cannot find any quotes from McCain saying that about Chelsea.[/quote]

[I]Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because her father is Janet Reno.”
[/I]

– [URL="http://www.salon.com/news/1998/06/25newsb.html"]Sen. John McCain[/URL], speaking to a Republican dinner, June 1998.