Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=prinzeofmoval;473136]Wonderlic or SAT scores huh? How was his 2nd grade math scores more like it, cause he still doesn't know feet or yards..[/quote]

Wow, that was genius.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

Doesn't matter who you put behind center when the offensive line is breaking down up the middle. And it really doesn't matter who lines up, because the savior will always be the guy holding the clipboard, only if he really was the answer he'd be behind center and not holding a clipboard.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

Campbell didn't have a good game but the idea that what went down yesterday would definitively change your opinion of him is aggressively ass-stupid. He made the same mistakes he has always made while also showing the same physical gifts (at times). 4 years in this is who he has always been. I think he can improve but the game didn't change my opinion of him in any way.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

Okay so we can't be mad for him getting jammed up look at Brett, Tony and Tom last year. The had a miserable time and Jason is no where in their league. But he doesn't have the killer instinct that we need in a quarterback. I don't see Ben, Peyton, Brady, Favre or even Mcnabb and Romo in him. We need that fire to put us over the hedge.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=prinzeofmoval;473155]Okay so we can't be mad for him getting jammed up look at [B]Brett, Tony and Tom last year[/B]. The had a miserable time and Jason is no where in their league. But he doesn't have the killer instinct that we need in a quarterback. I don't see [B]Ben, Peyton, Brady, Favre or even Mcnabb and Romo in him[/B]. We need that fire to put us over the hedge.[/quote]

All have better o-lines and WR's other than the Eagles then us there is not comparing them to Jason.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=Redskin Warrior;473163]All have better o-lines and WR's other than the Eagles then us there is not comparing them to Jason.[/quote]

How do you figure they have better recievers? Outside of Peyton who really does everybody has one good one with the rest being role players. O-Line you got me there.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=prinzeofmoval;473171]How do you figure they have better recievers? Outside of Peyton who really does everybody has one good one with the rest being role players. O-Line you got me there.[/quote]

JC often looks lethargic like Eli. You really can't tell what he's thinking and you certainly don't see him getting excited when he misses an open receiver. I don't know where this team will be in two weeks, but Jason has to get it right in 10 days.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

Wait til weeks 5-7 til we truly evaluate how JC is doing. If JC doesn't experience any significant improvement maybe we do have a QB problem, but til then all we can say is that he had a crappy opening game.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=jgalecpa;473106]Anybody have good information on what JC's Wunderlich test score was?

J-Dawg[/quote]

Dawg, I don't think the problem is JC's intellect but from what I remember his score wasn't too great.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

JC did look rough at times: he held onto the ball too long, he wasn't very mobile in the pocket, he stared down his primary receiver, and he threw under the chains too much. But he didn't have a whole lot of help. Poor pass protection threw off the timing on some routes like the deep ball to Santana that could've been a TD. Even when he made good throws, there were drops. Moss started running for some YAC without bringing it in, and Thrash had a beautiful deep ball bounce off his hands and shoulder pads. Penalties deflated drives. All those mistakes and the Giants D kept the offense from getting into a rhythm. Hopefully, New Orleans' D is still just as porous as it was last year, and the O can get it going next week.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=prinzeofmoval;473171]How do you figure they have better recievers? Outside of Peyton who really does everybody has one good one with the rest being role players. O-Line you got me there.[/quote]

GB- Jennings, Driver, Lee
NE- Moss & Welker
IND- Wayne, Harrison, Clark
DAL- Owens, Crayton & Witten

face it there better then our combination of WR's & TE that's why we drafted 2 WR's & a TE.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

I just got done watching the game (I love DVR). While I understand any loss is frustrating, you guys who are bashing JC and going down the "lacks intellect" & "can't read defenses" road are flat out wrong. Football is a team sport and while a QB can definitely lose a game by himself, that was not the case on Thursday.

I would challenge any of you bashing JC to sit down, watch an NFL game, and guess what coverage is being called on each play (BTW you won't have 300 lbers trying to rip your head off while doing it). I'll bet you won't make the correct call more than 40-50% of the time, less against Spags' defense. He's a very good DC who disguises coverages well.

For the most part JC made the right reads and decisions. He missed Cooley early (threw to Betts on the screen as Matty pointed out). He made a bad throw to Moss deep (underthrown). Other than that he looked solid in his decsion making. WRs needed to be smarter in finding the 1st down marker, penalties put us in 2nd-3rd and long several times. On those 3rd & longs don't you think a good DC is going to cover deep (rhetorical). Would you rather JC force the ball deep into coverage and turn it over?

Let's look at things realistically: JC didn't turn it over, we were in the game throughout, and in a new offense there will be penalties and missed assignments by all players, that needs to be correct by all. We faced one of the better defenses and top DCs in the NFL with a new HC and new offense. Did you guys expect us to put up 40? Things could've been different if we avoided penalties, if Thrash makes the catch at the end of the game, if Moss doesn't drop the ball on the slant late. Don't forget we have undersized WRs, that doesn't help when you want to create a physical mismatch to pressure the outside of the field.

JC has great potential and Zorn will bring it out. His development and the development of Thomas & Kelly will put is in good position gong forward into 2009. Unfortunately early-mid 2008 will be a challenge. If we manage 9-7 this season and show improvement in the offensive execution late in the season to me will it will be a successful one.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;473320]I just got done watching the game (I love DVR). While I understand any loss is frustrating, you guys who are bashing JC and going down the "lacks intellect" & "can't read defenses" road are flat out wrong. Football is a team sport and while a QB can definitely lose a game by himself, that was not the case on Thursday.

I would challenge any of you bashing JC to sit down, watch an NFL game, and guess what coverage is being called on each play (BTW you won't have 300 lbers trying to rip your head off while doing it). I'll bet you won't make the correct call more than 40-50% of the time, less against Spags' defense. He's a very good DC who disguises coverages well.

For the most part JC made the right reads and decisions. He missed Cooley early (threw to Betts on the screen as Matty pointed out). He made a bad throw to Moss deep (underthrown). Other than that he looked solid in his decsion making. WRs needed to be smarter in finding the 1st down marker, penalties put us in 2nd-3rd and long several times. On those 3rd & longs don't you think a good DC is going to cover deep (rhetorical). Would you rather JC force the ball deep into coverage and turn it over?

Let's look at things realistically: JC didn't turn it over, we were in the game throughout, and in a new offense there will be penalties and missed assignments by all players, that needs to be correct by all. We faced one of the better defenses and top DCs in the NFL with a new HC and new offense. Did you guys expect us to put up 40? Things could've been different if we avoided penalties, if Thrash makes the catch at the end of the game, if Moss doesn't drop the ball on the slant late. Don't forget we have undersized WRs, that doesn't help when you want to create a physical mismatch to pressure the outside of the field.

JC has great potential and Zorn will bring it out. His development and the development of Thomas & Kelly will put is in good position gong forward into 2009. Unfortunately early-mid 2008 will be a challenge. If we manage 9-7 this season and show improvement in the offensive execution late in the season to me will it will be a successful one.[/quote]

Thanks for saying this. I can't agree with you anymore. It makes alot of difference when you have a DVR or Tivo. I rewind and watch the game over to see things to better evaluate. The first time you watch it live you might not catch everything. You might not see that the receivers are covered you dont take into account the penalties. You dont take account drop balls and how the defense is playing. JC couldn't get into a rhythm between the offside penalties..the drop balls. No separation from receivers..poor o-line play.. All that needs to be considered. He didn't throw INTs he didn't fumble and he didn't force anything. The team as a whole played bad. Also some bad play calling. So all the blame cannot go on JC.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

Campbell scored a 14 the first time he took the Wonderlic and a 28 the 2nd time. Still, it's a little offensive that some seem to be insinuating he's not smart enough to play.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=prinzeofmoval;473155]Okay so we can't be mad for him getting jammed up look at Brett, Tony and Tom last year. The had a miserable time and Jason is no where in their league. But he doesn't have the killer instinct that we need in a quarterback. I don't see Ben, Peyton, Brady, Favre or even Mcnabb and Romo in him. We need that fire to put us over the hedge.[/quote]How would you quantify killer instinct and/or fire? More to the point, what does Campbell have to do to show that he's got killer instinct and fire similar to Brady or Favre?

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

I hate people that bash JC and call for Colt.....I mean those people need to get hit by a bus.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;473320]I just got done watching the game (I love DVR). While I understand any loss is frustrating, you guys who are bashing JC and going down the "lacks intellect" & "can't read defenses" road are flat out wrong. Football is a team sport and while a QB can definitely lose a game by himself, that was not the case on Thursday.

I would challenge any of you bashing JC to sit down, watch an NFL game, and guess what coverage is being called on each play (BTW you won't have 300 lbers trying to rip your head off while doing it). I'll bet you won't make the correct call more than 40-50% of the time, less against Spags' defense. He's a very good DC who disguises coverages well.

For the most part JC made the right reads and decisions. He missed Cooley early (threw to Betts on the screen as Matty pointed out). He made a bad throw to Moss deep (underthrown). Other than that he looked solid in his decsion making. WRs needed to be smarter in finding the 1st down marker, penalties put us in 2nd-3rd and long several times. On those 3rd & longs don't you think a good DC is going to cover deep (rhetorical). Would you rather JC force the ball deep into coverage and turn it over?

Let's look at things realistically: JC didn't turn it over, we were in the game throughout, and in a new offense there will be penalties and missed assignments by all players, that needs to be correct by all. We faced one of the better defenses and top DCs in the NFL with a new HC and new offense. Did you guys expect us to put up 40? Things could've been different if we avoided penalties, if Thrash makes the catch at the end of the game, if Moss doesn't drop the ball on the slant late. Don't forget we have undersized WRs, that doesn't help when you want to create a physical mismatch to pressure the outside of the field.

JC has great potential and Zorn will bring it out. His development and the development of Thomas & Kelly will put is in good position gong forward into 2009. Unfortunately early-mid 2008 will be a challenge. If we manage 9-7 this season and show improvement in the offensive execution late in the season to me will it will be a successful one.[/quote]

I think we need to cut and paste this response every time someone makes a "oh crap this team sucks", "JC sucks, put in Colt", or "we got blown out by the Giants" comment. Good points and very well thought out response.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;473320]

Let's look at things realistically: JC didn't turn it over, we were in the game throughout, and in a new offense there will be penalties and missed assignments by all players, that needs to be correct by all. We faced one of the better defenses and top DCs in the NFL with a new HC and new offense. Did you guys expect us to put up 40? Things could've been different if we avoided penalties, if Thrash makes the catch at the end of the game, if Moss doesn't drop the ball on the slant late. Don't forget we have undersized WRs, that doesn't help when you want to create a physical mismatch to pressure the outside of the field.

JC has great potential and Zorn will bring it out. His development and the development of Thomas & Kelly will put is in good position gong forward into 2009. Unfortunately early-mid 2008 will be a challenge. If we manage 9-7 this season and show improvement in the offensive execution late in the season to me will it will be a successful one.[/quote]

Very good points. It seems that people are expecting JC to be a finished product since he's entering his 4th season. The expectations were driven by Coach Gibbs saying this was a playoff team when he left. Well, maybe he was right if the continuity that Snyder espoused had really been the case, but bringing in a rookie head coach with a new offense is not continuity. So there was no opportunity on us to build from last year.

I thought JC was nervous early, but he made some solid throws. As for the underneath stuff on third down, I put the blame more on the receivers and the offense, the WCO is designed for short throws and yards after the catch. So its more the blame of the FO for bringing in a coach and system that doesn't play to the strength of the franchise qb we're trying to develop.

Its a rebuilding year, with a rookie head coach learning on the job. I don't think the record matters as much as seeing some progression. 1 game in, I'm not ready to say JC is anything but our quarterback. The obsession with Colt, well backup qbs always get love in DC. Brunell-Ramsey, Brunell-Campbell, heck even Schroeder-Williams and Schroeder-Rypien.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

I don't believe I could have said it any better than what Slingin Sammy 33 did. The expectations with some Redskins fans are way unrealistic. We all have to remember that our passing attack has been changed to the West Coast Offense. The passing attack is very tough to smooth out and perfect. It's just not about dropping back and waiting for a receiver to come open. It's timing, throwing to spots instead of receivers, and precision route running.

I do think Campbell looked lost out there. He's clearly holding onto the ball too long. But, these things are going to take time. Jim Zorn knows this. Jason Campbell knows this. We should know that and understand that as well. Sure, we all want our team to do well and to win every ball game. What real Redskins fan would not want this? What I do expect is for Jason Campbell to improve as the season progresses. This might be a losing season for the Redskins, I hope not! But, it's all about progression for Jason Campbell and his receivers. If Campbell hasn't improved at all, go with someone else. But, I think Jason is much too smart and talented of a QB to not learn this offense and get comfortable. I trust that Jim Zorn is going to bring Campbell along slowly in this offense, and you guys should just be patient.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

Come on now? What are the [I]realistic[/I] expectations? These guys are professional athletes... they get paid MILLIONS to play football and that's it. I know we can't win every game but we really can't even produce?
But someone please explain to me what realistic expectations are? Shouldn't we expect to win? Or at least have some production on offense?

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;473348]Campbell scored a 14 the first time he took the Wonderlic and a 28 the 2nd time. Still, it's a little offensive that some seem to be insinuating he's not smart enough to play.[/quote]
I believe it was a 14, 27 & 28. I'm also glad to see I'm not the only one who finds it offensive that people keep insulting his intellect.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;473421]I believe it was a 14, 27 & 28. I'm also glad to see I'm not the only one who finds it offensive that people keep insulting his intellect.[/quote]

It takes 2-3 years to learn an offense. You see how Brett Favre had trouble when he went to the Jets ( I guess he's not intelligent either). Imagine JC having to go through that every year. People need to cut the crap and stop being so critical of JC without knowing all the facts or atleast trying to be students of the games and drop their biases and be realistic. Its the first freaking game!!

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;473463]It takes 2-3 years to learn an offense. You see how Brett Favre had trouble when he went to the Jets ( I guess he's not intelligent either). Imagine JC having to go through that every year. People need to cut the crap and stop being so critical of JC without knowing all the facts or atleast trying to be students of the games and drop their biases and be realistic. Its the first freaking game!![/quote]


Farve won today.

The question about intellect goes to Campbell's ability to learn new systems.

I base my criticism primarily on his inability to increase on steady basis his QB rating.


If this were one game, people would not be upset, I believe. Going back to last year, he's lost five out of six games he finished, NOT counting the preseason this year.

Seems to be a pattern.

That's our concern, not the last game, the last 8-10 games, overall.

J-Dawg.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=jgalecpa;473531]Farve won today.

The question about intellect goes to Campbell's ability to learn new systems.

I base my criticism primarily on his inability to increase on steady basis his QB rating.


If this were one game, people would not be upset, I believe. Going back to last year, he's lost five out of six games he finished, NOT counting the preseason this year.

Seems to be a pattern.

That's our concern, not the last game, the last 8-10 games, overall.

J-Dawg.[/quote]

How is it a pattern when he won 5 of 8 games to start last year?

[url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CampJa00_games.htm]Jason Campbell Gamelogs and Game Logs - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]

Give it time people.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=jsarno;473536]
Give it time people.[/quote]


I think that is key.


Everyone should step back, let the season progress, see where we are at the end of the season not the beginning.

Time will tell.


J-Dawg

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=jgalecpa;473543]I think that is key.


Everyone should step back, [B]let the season progress[/B], see where we are at the end of the season not the beginning.

Time will tell.


J-Dawg[/quote]

You mean regress?

I'm not optimistic if you can't tell. The egg we laid on THU was too huge to think it's going up from here.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;473548]You mean regress?

I'm not optimistic if you can't tell. The egg we laid on THU was too huge to think it's going up from here.[/quote]

Look at the Giants last yr. They lost their first 2 games and were down 14 at the half on the road against us to be 0-3 and look how that turned out. It was the play calling that hurt us. Campbell did a terrible job with his reads.. staring down his receiver.. BUT our offense could have been played in a phone booth.. no passes over ten yards.. hopefully we pick up the pace next week. Im not ready to throw in the towel.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=jgalecpa;473531][B]Farve won today.

The question about intellect goes to Campbell's ability to learn new systems.[/B]

I base my criticism primarily on his inability to increase on steady basis his QB rating.


If this were one game, people would not be upset, I believe. Going back to last year, he's lost five out of six games he finished, NOT counting the preseason this year.

Seems to be a pattern.

That's our concern, not the last game, the last 8-10 games, overall.

J-Dawg.[/quote]

Favre has also been a pro QB for how many years now? At least 11 or 12?

If he can't pick up new systems by now then he should've given up years ago.

I'm still not ready to throw in the towel on JC. I've got to give him at least till week 4. If he's still performing this poorly, then I'd start re-evaluating whether or not he's cut out to be a number 1.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

I f'ing hate losing while all other division foes win. The only saving grace of the week is the ass wupping the Seahawks got. JC better show up next week or I'm writing his ass off and joining the Collins crowd.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=saden1;473565]I f'ing hate losing while all other division foes win. The only saving grace of the week is the ass wupping the Seahawks got. JC better show up next week or I'm writing his ass off and[B] joining the Collins crowd.[/B][/quote]

Pfft. Brennan is money, baby!

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=scafuri27;473557]Look at the Giants last yr. They lost their first 2 games and were down 14 at the half on the road against us to be 0-3 and look how that turned out. It was the play calling that hurt us. Campbell did a terrible job with his reads.. staring down his receiver.. BUT our offense could have been played in a phone booth.. no passes over ten yards.. hopefully we pick up the pace next week. Im not ready to throw in the towel.[/quote]


I jsut don't think that Campbell can overcome all of those inefficiencies this year or next....We'll see how it goes.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;473572]Pfft. Brennan is money, baby![/quote]

I'm not ready to join the Brennan Band just yet.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;473559]Favre has also been a pro QB for how many years now? At least 11 or 12?

If he can't pick up new systems by now then he should've given up years ago.

I'm still not ready to throw in the towel on JC. I've got to give him at least till week 4. If he's still performing this poorly, then I'd start re-evaluating whether or not he's cut out to be a number 1.[/quote]

I'm not optimistic, but I've seen new coaches go 0-5 in their first year do well later.

I am very pessimisitic, but I do believe we need to allow a while to see if JC can be a true NFL qb, and how Zorn does.

I've had my opinions been proven wrong by history before, so I am prepared to have that happen again.

I'd love to be proven wrong.

(I've invested about $14,000 in season tix so far under Dan Snyder, and seen exactly zero playoff games.)

J-Dawg

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=jgalecpa;473611]I'm not optimistic, but I've seen new coaches go 0-5 in their first year do well later.

I am very pessimisitic, but I do believe we need to allow a while to see if JC can be a true NFL qb, and how Zorn does.

I've had my opinions been proven wrong by history before, so I am prepared to have that happen again.

I'd love to be proven wrong.

[B](I've invested about $14,000 in season tix so far under Dan Snyder, and seen exactly zero playoff games.)[/B]

J-Dawg[/quote]

:doh:

If I was you and was paying that much money, I'd demand a refund. lol

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;473617]:doh:

If I was you and was paying that much money, I'd demand a refund. lol[/quote]


He'd charge a fee for the privledge of asking for a refund, and then he'd say no.

Appreciate the sympathy, though.

J-Dawg.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

Just an FYI to all you Campbell haters (or the ones ready to pull the plug on him), his QB rating was 81.2 which ranks 9th out of 19 before the sunday night game. He has a better rating than Carson Palmer, Matt Hasslebeck, Eli Manning, David Garrard, Vince Young (ok, that's a joke, everyone is better than Young, LOL), Jeff Garcia and Marc Bulger!
I'm not saying this means all is well...all of us see the need for improvement, but no one is ready to kick those other guys to the curb, so let's relax.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=jsarno;473639]Just an FYI to all you Campbell haters (or the ones ready to pull the plug on him), his QB rating was 81.2 which ranks 9th out of 19 before the sunday night game. He has a better rating than Carson Palmer, Matt Hasslebeck, Eli Manning, David Garrard, [B]Vince Young (ok, that's a joke, everyone is better than Young, LOL)[/B], Jeff Garcia and Marc Bulger!
I'm not saying this means all is well...all of us see the need for improvement, but no one is ready to kick those other guys to the curb, so let's relax.[/quote]

I think every year, you need to start a VY overrated thread. :silly:

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;473652]I think every year, you need to start a VY overrated thread. :silly:[/quote]

LOL...nah, I think I have successfully shown that he is overrated. BTW, 1 td and 3 turnovers for him today. He clearly has not learned anything yet...then again the season is young. I ran those threads because people thought he was a stud, people no longer think that.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=jsarno;473656]LOL...nah, I think I have successfully shown that he is overrated. [B]BTW, 1 td and 3 turnovers for him today[/B]. He clearly has not learned anything yet...then again the season is young. I ran those threads because people thought he was a stud, people no longer think that.[/quote]

I don't know who all thought he was a stud, overrated and all that bullshit, but who cares.

BTW, we are talking about the same VY that plays for the titans and they did happen to beat the jags today 17-10, right.....thats all that matters in this business is W's and L's!

Although I didn't catch the game the bottom line is they got a WIN! He had a bad game and the defense stepped up and compensated for his mistakes or mistakes on the offensive side of the football.

And thats all that matters at the end of the day. I wish we where sitting at 1-0 instead of visa versa.

Re: JC is not what I thought.
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;473680]I don't know who all thought he was a stud, overrated and all that bullshit, but who cares.

BTW, we are talking about the same VY that plays for the titans and they did happen to beat the jags today 17-10, right.....thats all that matters in this business is W's and L's!

[B] Although I didn't catch the game the bottom line is they got a WIN![/B] He had a bad game and the defense stepped up and compensated for his mistakes or mistakes on the offensive side of the football.

And thats all that matters at the end of the day. I wish we where sitting at 1-0 instead of visa versa.[/quote]You see, in this case, that not catching the game part is critical, because had you done so, you would have known that the game clinching TD came on a Kerry Collins drive -- after Young injury.

So if W and L are all that matters, count Vince Young in as a real winner -- but also a [B]horrible[/B] quarterback.