Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=12thMan;717734]Well see you're making this a moral argument, and thus stating marriage between a man and a woman is superior to gay and lesbian marriage. Now while that's your prerogative, and the church's for that matter, the government should not be coming to such conclusions regarding the institution of marriage. So it's nearly impossible for the government to "stay out of marriage" in order to protect the rights --the constitutional rights -- awarded to American citizens.

Just to reiterate, I don't think it's the government's role to determine what's morally acceptable and what isn't, particularly regarding marriage. If the Constitution doesn't protect that right, then who will enforce it? That's why we go to court, to determine the test of a rulings constitutionality. And in this case the judge determined that it was unconstitutional. [B]This isn't a moral argument, it's a civil rights issue.[/B][/quote]

Bingo dingo. Leave the moral stuff to society...dump legal marriage since it is only a sanctification of a moral decision.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=12thMan;717743]With all due respect, it might worthless to some here on a football forum, but it's definitely a worthy discussion and a lifelong battle for millions of gays and lesbians that want to enter marriage and be awarded the same basic rights as heterosexual couples; to live their lives free of discrimination, hate, and be treated equally.

I'm not on some liberal high horse, but the conversation is in keeping with the thread.[/quote]

I probably didn't express myself very well there. I agree with you in the sense that if the gov't is going to sanction marriage then this is a very important discussion. I just don't think the gov't should so therefore I think the conversation is pointless. Just from my perspective though. I do realize that the government giving up on marriage sanctification is a pipe-dream though. It is too entrenched in our scoiety as a legal element to ever go away.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=FRPLG;717746]Bingo dingo. Leave the moral stuff to society...dump legal marriage since it is only a sanctification of a moral decision.[/quote]


Easier said than done. And for the record, I agree with and like your definition of marriage. It's spot on.

But one way or another the government will be involved.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=FRPLG;717748]I probably didn't express myself very well there. I agree with you in the sense that if the gov't is going to sanction marriage then this is a very important discussion. I just don't think the gov't should so therefore I think the conversation is pointless. Just from my perspective though. I do realize that the government giving up on marriage sanctification is a pipe-dream though. It is too entrenched in our scoiety as a legal element to ever go away.[/quote]

Funny because right after I posted this, I read your follow-up post.

Anyway, points well stated and noted.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=12thMan;717734]Well see you're making this a moral argument, and thus stating marriage between a man and a woman is superior to gay and lesbian marriage. Now while that's your prerogative, and the church's for that matter, the government should not be coming to such conclusions regarding the institution of marriage. So it's nearly impossible for the government to "stay out of marriage" in order to protect the rights --the constitutional rights -- awarded to American citizens.

Just to reiterate, I don't think it's the government's role to determine what's morally acceptable and what isn't, [B]particularly regarding marriage.[/B] If the Constitution doesn't protect that right, then who will enforce it? That's why we go to court, to test the rulings constitutionality. And in this case the judge determined that it was unconstitutional. This isn't a moral argument, it's a civil rights issue.[/quote]

Just because we have sticklers for quotes lurking here, I want to clarify that I'm speaking about marriage between two consulting adults of a legal age; not between a man and pig, or a woman and horse, or her teenage daughter. But two adults considered of age by society's norms.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Mechanix544;717733]Here Here. This whole PC wave sweeping the nation is getting out of control. So, because two gay guys want cheaper auto insurance and tax breaks, we should legally recognize them as a married couple? Sorry, No way. [B]Marriage is and should be between a man and a woman. Nature says it works that way, and almost every religion says it is blasphemy.[/B] So we should cater to them because they are different? Sorry, No way. Lead your life the way you want, but when it comes to the general public recognizing your homo love and okaying it essencially, that is where the buck should stop. Its almost as sick as letting gays in the military............[/quote]

A few questions then, by "nature says it works that way" does that mean that you believe that the purpose of marriage is to produce children? What about heterosexual couples that can't conceive? Should their marriage be annulled? Or would you let it stand just because it doesn't seem threatening to you?

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

How about homosexuality in the animal world? Nature seems to say it's ok.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=jdlea;717763]A few questions then, by "nature says it works that way" does that mean that you believe that the purpose of marriage is to produce children? What about heterosexual couples that can't conceive? Should their marriage be annulled? Or would you let it stand just because it doesn't seem threatening to you?[/quote]

Now you are picking fly shit out of pepper. And no, Im not threatened by it. But I am also not going to sit by, paying my tax dollars and having the government say that Frank and Bill have the same rights as a heterosexual couple, because we don't want to step on their toes.

You know exactly what it means, and you also know that I am right, in the sense that we were made for it to work that way. And yes, producing children is one of the most important things couples do. Procreation is a very important part of human society and marriage. And quit with the liberal spin absurd bullshit, "if a man has a vasectomy or a woman has ovarian cancer, she shouldnt be afforded the same rights as other married couples because she cannot procreate."

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Mattyk;717768]How about homosexuality in the animal world? Nature seems to say it's ok.[/quote]

How about cannibalism in the natural world? So you're saying we should emulate animals?

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=FRPLG;717741]Actually I love this issue...it highlights the hypocrisy of both libs and conservatives.

Conservatives: the bastion of the limited gov't powers now wants the gov't to strictly define something. That's funny

[B]Liberals: the bastion of a powerful central gov't with the will to exert power "for the benefit of all society" now wants the gov't to basically not regulate this. Funny[/B].[/quote]

I don't understand how it's hypocritical...is your expectation that we lend support to government sanctioned discrimination?

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Mattyk;717768]How about homosexuality in the animal world? Nature seems to say it's ok.[/quote]

Gays are unnatural human beings :doh:

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Mechanix544;717774]Now you are picking fly shit out of pepper. And no, Im not threatened by it. But I am also not going to sit by, paying my tax dollars and having the government say that Frank and Bill have the same rights as a heterosexual couple, because we don't want to step on their toes.

You know exactly what it means, and you also know that I am right, in the sense that we were made for it to work that way. And yes, producing children is one of the most important things couples do. Procreation is a very important part of human society and marriage. And quit with the liberal spin absurd bullshit, "if a man has a vasectomy or a woman has ovarian cancer, she shouldnt be afforded the same rights as other married couples because she cannot procreate."[/quote]

First of all, I don't "know" you're right, I think you're dead wrong. Not wanting to step on homosexuals toes? That's the best you can do? That's absurd, I'm of the opinion that everyone should have equal rights and that 100% means extending marriage rights to homosexuals.

I don't believe that you're right because non-humans engage in homosexual acts all the time. Also, I don't believe that humans were "made," so we can skip that convo. Finally, there are tons of reasons that couples may not be able to procreate, it doesn't have to be something devastating like cancer.

I'd love for you to explain to me how that's "liberal spin absurd bullshit." Really, enlighten me. It seemed that you were heading down the path of, "marriage is for procreation" so I wanted to cut you off instead of trying to trap you in that one. Also, I like how your quote seems to project my removal of marital rights, when you're the one who's guilty of that.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=saden1;717782]I don't understand how it's hypocritical...is your expectation that we lend support to government sanctioned discrimination?[/quote]

No it was more a play on stereotypes.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;717778]How about cannibalism in the natural world? So you're saying we should emulate animals?[/quote]

We eat meat don't we?

We might not eat each other, but we do kill each other with no problem.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=jdlea;717784]First of all, I don't "know" you're right, I think you're dead wrong. Not wanting to step on homosexuals toes? That's the best you can do? That's absurd, I'm of the opinion that everyone should have equal rights and that 100% means extending marriage rights to homosexuals.

I don't believe that you're right because non-humans engage in homosexual acts all the time. Also, I don't believe that humans were "made," so we can skip that convo. Finally, there are tons of reasons that couples may not be able to procreate, it doesn't have to be something devastating like cancer.

I'd love for you to explain to me how that's "liberal spin absurd bullshit." Really, enlighten me. It seemed that you were heading down the path of, "marriage is for procreation" so I wanted to cut you off instead of trying to trap you in that one. Also, I like how your quote seems to project my removal of marital rights, when you're the one who's guilty of that.[/quote]

Just a question. Do you think its just a coincidence that homosexuals have 5 times the chance of contracting an STD than a heterosexual? Or do you think that its just a coincidence that the life expectancy of a homosexual individual is almost 20 years SHORTER than that of a heterosexual person? How about, it must be a coincidence that homosexuals have 4 times the chance of being medically diagnosed with a mental disorder than heterosexuals? It must all be Rush Limbaughs fault, right? We conservatives just put too much pressure and spew too much hate for the homosexual to take, right?

I dont know about you, but with those statistics, homosexuality is definitely not a lifestyle that the stats say would enable you to live a long and healthy life, and its not one that I would choose for the ones I love, like my children. And I definitely wouldn't want the government condoning such a self destructive lifestyle like homosexuality by okaying it in the court systems because gays like to twist around our constitution to say it protects them, but in the same breath, say that government should have no say on what constitutes a marriage. I also find it interesting that the suicide rate among homosexuals is staggering when compared to the suicide rate of heterosexuals. Again, its all Fox News' fault, right? Not a lifestyle I would want for anyone............

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

This isn't about rights. It's about perverts trying to force their twisted way of life down everyone's throat. You think that they'll stop there. HA!

[url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-417582/Vicars-sued-refusing-bless-gay-weddings-fears-Church.html]Vicars could be sued for refusing to bless gay weddings, fears Church | Mail Online[/url]

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Mechanix544;717792]Just a question. Do you think its just a coincidence that homosexuals have 5 times the chance of contracting an STD than a heterosexual? Or do you think that its just a coincidence that the life expectancy of a homosexual individual is almost 20 years SHORTER than that of a heterosexual person? How about, it must be a coincidence that homosexuals have 4 times the chance of being medically diagnosed with a mental disorder than heterosexuals? It must all be Rush Limbaughs fault, right? We conservatives just put too much pressure and spew too much hate for the homosexual to take, right?

I dont know about you, but with those statistics, homosexuality is definitely not a lifestyle that the stats say would enable you to live a long and healthy life, and its not one that I would choose for the ones I love, like my children. And I definitely wouldn't want the government condoning such a self destructive lifestyle like homosexuality by okaying it in the court systems because gays like to twist around our constitution to say it protects them, but in the same breath, say that government should have no say on what constitutes a marriage. I also find it interesting that the suicide rate among homosexuals is staggering when compared to the suicide rate of heterosexuals. Again, its all Fox News' fault, right? Not a lifestyle I would want for anyone............[/quote]

WOW...you make some impressive leaps in logic. Really, that seems like some sort of talent.

Okay, first off, I'd love to see some type of statistics which validate everything you just said. Particularly when I've heard some evidence to the contrary, particularly regarding lesbians.

I don't care what lifestyle people choose to live, that's where we differ, my friend. Like I said before, I believe in equal rights, not only rights for the people I support.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

It's always amazing how fired up some get over what goes on in someone else's bedroom.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

A sick society is just like a sick animal. It doesn't matter if it is a big strong animal like an elephant. The stronger, more aggressive, beasts smell weakness and feed off the dying. I just wish it wasn't my country that was being eaten.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

I think we all just want to shape the world in which we live to some extent. Some of us have feelings/beliefs that compel us to say this or that should not be allowed, others extol an "anything but violence goes" philosophy. It's pretty clearly a prejudice, which I'm using in the sense of [URL="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prejudice"]"a preconceived judgment or opinion,"[/URL] to say that homosexuality is wrong. That said, all prejudices aren't necessarily incorrect or built upon ignorance. I believe people hold this prejudice because our society has largely taught since it's inception that these alternative lifestyles are wrong. That view point has helped shape our culture to this point in time. Revoking that view likewise changes the culture of our society going forward and not in a way in which [URL="http://www.gallup.com/poll/118378/majority-americans-continue-oppose-gay-marriage.aspx"]the current majority[/URL] seems to desire. I don't think it's as simple as "what two people do in their bedroom is their business" because there are collateral effects which impede on the wishes of most Americans, i.e. the inclusion of [URL="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,521209,00.html"]homosexuality in elementary education[/URL].

I think the crux of the debate is does a society have a right to establish social guidelines and thus enforce said guidelines on a dissenting minority? That's a hell of a hard argument to make from a logical standpoint, much easier from an emotional one. In the end, the point is moot, people can object all they want but [URL="http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20007144-503544.html"]evidence shows this fight is just about ove[/URL]r...

just my :twocents:

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;717810]I think we all just want to shape the world in which we live to some extent. Some of us have feelings/beliefs that compel us to say this or that should not be allowed, others extol an "anything but violence goes" philosophy. It's pretty clearly a prejudice, which I'm using in the sense of [URL="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prejudice"]"a preconceived judgment or opinion,"[/URL] to say that homosexuality is wrong. That said, all prejudices aren't necessarily incorrect or built upon ignorance. I believe people hold this prejudice because our society has largely taught since it's inception that these alternative lifestyles are wrong. That view point has helped shape our culture to this point in time. Revoking that view likewise changes the culture of our society going forward and not in a way in which [URL="http://www.gallup.com/poll/118378/majority-americans-continue-oppose-gay-marriage.aspx"]the current majority[/URL] seems to desire. I don't think it's as simple as "what two people do in their bedroom is their business" because there are collateral effects which impede on the wishes of most Americans, i.e. the inclusion of [URL="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,521209,00.html"]homosexuality in elementary education[/URL].

I think the crux of the debate is does a society have a right to establish social guidelines and thus enforce said guidelines on a dissenting minority? That's a hell of a hard argument to make from a logical standpoint, much easier from an emotional one. In the end, the point is moot, people can object all they want but [URL="http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20007144-503544.html"]evidence shows this fight is just about ove[/URL]r...

just my :twocents:[/quote]

I sense a transformation in your take on the whole thing since this thread started. Is that a fair assessment?

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;717803]A sick society is just like a sick animal. It doesn't matter if it is a big strong animal like an elephant. The stronger, more aggressive, beasts smell weakness and feed off the dying. I just wish it wasn't my country that was being eaten.[/quote]

It isn't us that is sick. Change and progress is good. Hope and fear not so much.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=saden1;717817]It isn't us that is sick. Change and progress is good. Hope and fear not so much.[/quote]

I don't agree with TTE at all on this deal but this statement is what kills me about the liberal mindset on this. You don't get that a fair majority of the population doesn't see this change as progress at all. They see it as rotting. Essentially the opposite of progress. That's a major disconnect in the discussion.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=FRPLG;717834]I don't agree with TTE at all on this deal but this statement is what kills me about the liberal mindset on this. You don't get that a fair majority of the population doesn't see this change as progress at all. They see it as rotting. Essentially the opposite of progress. That's a major disconnect in the discussion.[/quote]

It is but a symptom of the rot. Natural law has been supplanted with corruption.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=FRPLG;717834]I don't agree with TTE at all on this deal but this statement is what kills me about the liberal mindset on this. You don't get that a fair majority of the population doesn't see this change as progress at all. They see it as rotting. Essentially the opposite of progress. That's a major disconnect in the discussion.[/quote]

Whether the population as a whole sees it as progress is immaterial to whether it's progress. I get that people are upset but I don't believe it's a majority anymore. Homosexuality use to be punishable by death, now it is not. It use to be something to be feared/rejected and now it isn't as feared/rejected. This is progress whether you and others see it as such or not.

Advocates for gay rights need to change people's attitude towards gays and the court system is one of many tools to exert social influence. We aren't there yet but we will be in a decade or so and people's attitudes will change...they have to in order to cope with the stress of living in a society where gays are in your face.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=saden1;717846]Whether the population as a whole sees it as progress is immaterial to whether it's progress. I get that people are upset but I don't believe it's a majority anymore. Homosexuality use to be punishable by death, now it is not. It use to be something to be feared/rejected and now it isn't as feared/rejected. [SIZE=4]This is progress whether you and others see it as such or not.[/SIZE]

Advocates for gay rights need to change people's attitude towards gays and the court system is one of many tools to exert social influence. We aren't there yet but we will be in a decade or so and people's attitudes will change...they have to in order to cope with the stress of living in a society where gays are in your face.[/quote]
In this instance, this is soley your opinion and no more definitive of "progress" than any other....opinion. And, I imagine not shared by many others with........opinions.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Hog1;717852]In this instance, this is soley your opinion and no more definitive of "progress" than any other....opinion. And, I imagine not shared by many others with........opinions.[/quote]
This is a terrible post...you should reevaluate it.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=saden1;717868]This is a terrible post...you should reevaluate it.[/quote]
I could restate it to...help you understand??

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=saden1;717814]I sense a transformation in your take on the whole thing since this thread started. Is that a fair assessment?[/quote]

Meh... I still feel the way I feel about it. I don't like it, but at some point you have to recognize the direction things are heading in and move forward. You can't be for personal freedom and support the suppression of the rights of others, without being a colossal hypocrite. Personally, I think acceptance and glorification of the gay lifestyle is something I wouldn't want around my kids (don't have any yet) and that I find extremely distasteful, but you have to adapt. C'est la vie.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

Teaching kids acceptance is so overrated anyway

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;717870]Meh... I still feel the way I feel about it. I don't like it, but at some point you have to recognize the direction things are heading in and move forward. You can't be for personal freedom and support the suppression of the rights of others, without being a colossal hypocrite. Personally, I think acceptance and glorification of the gay lifestyle is something I wouldn't want around my kids (don't have any yet) and that I find extremely distasteful, but you have to adapt. C'est la vie.[/quote]

Define glorification? I mean it's not like the gays are gonna come after your future children and recruit them. I'll put myself out there and say I don't really identify as anything, I love who I love. p.s. I'm female just in case you forgot. But I suppose a perv is a perv. Whatevs.

But I'm going to go there and say that this is basically like civil rights via 1950s. I'm sure white people back in the day didn't want their children catching the Negro bug either. Lawdy Lawdy, if your precious white children was exposed to a black person back in the day, who knew what kinda evil they'd put in their heads.

Oppression is oppression no matter which group is being oppressed. And people can hide behind their bibles and their morals and their laws of nature, but at the end of the day you either hole up out in your cabin out in the wilderness and homeschool your kids to shelter them from the evils of society or hold on tight and get ready for the ride.

If the world is going to hell in a handbasket, there's nothing making you stay. That wasn't directed at you BB. Just a general statement. :)

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Hog1;717869]I could restate it to...help you understand??[/quote]

The problem isn't my understanding but the quality of it. I am confidant you can break your own post down...give it a try before I do.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=saden1;717846]and the court system is one of many tools to exert social influence. [/quote]And I always thought the courts were there to decide legal disputes based on merits of cases, not to legislate "social influence" one way or the other. Silly me.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;717873[B]]Define glorification? I mean it's not like the gays are gonna come after your future children and recruit them.[/B] I'll put myself out there and say I don't really identify as anything, I love who I love. p.s. I'm female just in case you forgot. But I suppose a perv is a perv. Whatevs.

But I'm going to go there and say that this is basically like civil rights via 1950s. I'm sure white people back in the day didn't want their children catching the Negro bug either. Lawdy Lawdy, if your precious white children was exposed to a black person back in the day, who knew what kinda evil they'd put in their heads.

Oppression is oppression no matter which group is being oppressed. And people can hide behind their bibles and their morals and their laws of nature, but at the end of the day you either hole up out in your cabin out in the wilderness and homeschool your kids to shelter them from the evils of society or hold on tight and get ready for the ride.

If the world is going to hell in a handbasket, there's nothing making you stay. That wasn't directed at you BB. Just a general statement. :)[/quote]

Yeah, I know. I expected such a response. When I say glorification, what I mean is you can't turn on the tv without some obviously gay dude prancing around, setting a miserable example of how a man is supposed to act. I know, I know, if you don't like it, turn it off. The point is if you ask me should this be, I would say no, it should not. But... rationally you have to accept the world as it is.

And to Matty's point... teaching acceptance is exactly what I plan to do, but I'd really prefer it if I didn't have to worry about them seeing it before I felt they were ready. Put it this way, I don't personally care for those that use drugs either, but I feel it's their right to do so. I still don't want anyone smoking a blunt or shooting heroine in front of my kids. Sure, i can explain to them what drugs are and what addiction is, but there are some realities that can wait.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;717880]Yeah, I know. I expected such a response. When I say glorification, what I mean is you can't turn on the tv without some obviously gay dude prancing around, setting a miserable example of how a man is supposed to act. I know, I know, if you don't like it, turn it off. The point is if you ask me should this be, I would say no, it should not. But... rationally you have to accept the world as it is.

And to Matty's point... teaching acceptance is exactly what I plan to do, but I'd really prefer it if I didn't have to worry about them seeing it before I felt they were ready. Put it this way, I don't personally care for those that use drugs either, but I feel it's their right to do so. I still don't want anyone smoking a blunt or shooting heroine in front of my kids. Sure, i can explain to them what drugs are and what addiction is, but there are some realities that can wait.[/quote]Well stated.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;717880]Yeah, I know. I expected such a response. When I say glorification, what I mean is you can't turn on the tv without some obviously gay dude prancing around, setting a miserable example of how a man is supposed to act. I know, I know, if you don't like it, turn it off. The point is if you ask me should this be, I would say no, it should not. But... rationally you have to accept the world as it is.

And to Matty's point... teaching acceptance is exactly what I plan to do, but I'd really prefer it if I didn't have to worry about them seeing it before I felt they were ready. Put it this way, I don't personally care for those that use drugs either, but I feel it's their right to do so. I still don't want anyone smoking a blunt or shooting heroine in front of my kids. Sure, i can explain to them what drugs are and what addiction is, but there are some realities that can wait.[/quote]

I can understand not wanting to expose your kids to the gay lifestyle so early. Honestly, I wouldn't want to either. I would think if you were a heterosexual couple raising a kid, you wouldn't wanna tell them about those kinda differences until they get a bit older. But I think by high school they either know or they figure it out on their own, at which point I think kids should be allowed to either accept it or say "hey this is kinda weird" and turn a blind eye to it / decide to not accept it for themselves. But I don't think parents should instill that nonacceptance into their kids.

Its basically like the sexual education thing.. How young is too young?

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;717882]I can understand not wanting to expose your kids to the gay lifestyle so early. Honestly, I wouldn't want to either. I would think if you were a heterosexual couple raising a kid, you wouldn't wanna tell them about those kinda differences until they get a bit older. But I think by high school they either know or they figure it out on their own, at which point I think kids should be allowed to either accept it or say "hey this is kinda weird" and turn a blind eye to it / decide to not accept it for themselves. But I don't think parents should instill that nonacceptance into their kids.

Its basically like the sexual education thing.. How young is too young?[/quote]

Exactly. Agreed.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;717882]I can understand not wanting to expose your kids to the gay lifestyle so early. Honestly, I wouldn't want to either. I would think if you were a heterosexual couple raising a kid, you wouldn't wanna tell them about those kinda differences until they get a bit older. But I think by high school they either know or they figure it out on their own, at which point I think kids should be allowed to either accept it or say "hey this is kinda weird" and turn a blind eye to it / decide to not accept it for themselves. But I don't think parents should instill that nonacceptance into their kids.

Its basically like the sexual education thing.. How young is too young?[/quote]Also well stated.

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=saden1;717877]The problem isn't my understanding but the quality of it. I am confidant you can break your own post down...give it a try before I do.[/quote]
.....your just being silly.
BUT, you cannot state societal definition of progress as you do not know what "it" is. You know what "yours" it....nothing more.
....nuthin' but quality!

Re: Steve Young's family up against Mormon church on Prop. 8
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;717878]And I always thought the courts were there to decide legal disputes based on merits of cases, not to legislate "social influence" one way or the other. Silly me.[/quote]

The court exist to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority and whether we agree with their decisions or not they do in fact exert social influence.