Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

... it's not like Evans has much wear and tear on him either.

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

[quote=SmootSmack;533055]I think just their age and durability issues as they get older make Dockery and Hall improvements over Kendall and Springs. That doesn't even include Washington's issues staying healthy. And Haynesworth is arguably better than all of them combined at this point in their career.

But yeah, the experiment failed with Jason Taylor. But now we got to make some pina colada out of this coconut and take advantage of these $8 million we have.[/quote]

I definitely agree that long term it is better to have Dock and Hall but as far as talent and production at this moment it is probably a wash.

I just think that if you look big picture you can't say that the 2009 Redskins have a significant advantage in talent over the 2008 team. Of course we expect JC and the second year receivers to improve but still...

Danny and Vinny are going to have to win me back over with the Taylor cap space.

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

[quote=The Goat;533051]Yeah Crowell is a huge risk... sort of similar to the DE we had as a backup part of the last year (name?). I think some people aren't facing reality: there's very little LB talent left in FA... the younger/healthier guy June is too small. The rest are pretty questionable SO WHOEVER WE BRING ON IS EITHER FOR DEPTH OR A SPOT STARTER. Sorry for yelling. [B]Meanwhile Evans, surprise, is listed right near the top in DE talent left in FA. Sign Evans tonight. Keep Daniels on at vet min for an insurance policy and because he's an important locker room leader.[/B] Bottom line: we basically have to come away from the draft w/ a legit starter at LB.

This is the way I see the defense... and btw Orakpo ain't falling to us @ 13 and it's for the best. Kid has phenom physique but will be oft injured in the NFL...[/quote]

I would [B]NOT[/B] sign Dainels for my life Goat, even if for the vet min. Evans is tricky give that he's 30 and we don't know what he's asking for at Ashburn, if its a crazy contract let him go to SF. I would offer Evans a 2yr 6 mil deal w/ a 2 mil in incentives and let him be the starter. I'm betting Orakpo will fall to us at 13, but we take Oher instead.

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

I'm saying this now, don't be surprised if we bring in peppers snyderatto is thinking right now " hey we already got the biggest difference making DT that will free up or DLineman, and the giants just beafed up their dlineman so let's one up them and get peppers because with him and haynesworth, how can we be stopped, we'll be getting sacks left and right"

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

that would be such a decision between orakpo and oher, at least it would be for me.

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

[quote=Paintrain;533027]If one of our goals is to get younger and more explosive why would we bring back a 30 year old DE (Evans), a 36 year old DE (Daniels) and a 35 year old G (Kendall) plus a LB coming off a major knee injury?[/quote]

Because there are not better DE's that are available and fit into our system at the price. I'd like to have added Canty instead, but that aint possible now, is it?
Kendall as a back up guard is a good thing. Not a long term deal, but a hell of an insurance policy with Thomas coming off that neck surgery.
I still think we draft a guard with our 3rd pick and hope he and/or Rienhart develop.
Not much of a crop at LB to pick from. Crowell at least is familiar with the coaches and players. Again this could be addressed with our 1st draft pick.
OT (see above)

In short, there are not a lot of young, up and coming, players out there as FA's. We got 2 (or if you count Dock, 3) of the best available. We still get to draft another with our first pick. We need to fill in the remaining gaps in our depth with experienced, affordable, vets that fit our system.

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

[quote=vallin21;533062]I would [B]NOT[/B] sign Dainels for my life Goat, even if for the vet min. Evans is tricky give that he's 30 and we don't know what he's asking for at Ashburn, if its a crazy contract let him go to SF. I would offer Evans a 2yr 6 mil deal w/ a 2 mil in incentives and let him be the starter. I'm betting Orakpo will fall to us at 13, but we take Oher instead.[/quote]

What is wrong with Daniels? You would rather have Chris Wilson and Buzzbee than him? I wouldn't at least not right now.

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

[quote=tootergray34;533064]that would be such a decision between orakpo and oher, at least it would be for me.[/quote]

Unless something bad happens to Orakpo between now and the draft, he's projected to get picked top 10, and Oher or smith or both are projected to go later than 13 , like 15-20

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

[quote=mrreddman;533053]how about crowell AND burnett? not like we are loaded at LB[/quote]

I wouldn't put anything past Synder, but either one would fill a starter role for 1-2 yrs, and we can sign a FA or draft a LB in the '10 draft.

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

Here's some info on Burnett. It appears the Raiders are looking at him. If this is correct, and i'm not sure it is, he appears a little light, but he played really well in a backup role and is looking to go somewhere where he can start. [url=http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player?statsId=7218]FOX Sports on MSN: Kevin Burnett, Linebacker, NFL[/url]

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;533061]I definitely agree that long term it is better to have Dock and Hall but as far as talent and production at this moment it is probably a wash.

[B]I just think that if you look big picture you can't say that the 2009 Redskins have a significant advantage in talent over the 2008 team.[/B] Of course we expect JC and the second year receivers to improve but still...

Danny and Vinny are going to have to win me back over with the Taylor cap space.[/quote]

I disagree with you on the statement in bold. I think that with the addition of Haynesworth, Dockery, and the retention of Hall, puts the Redskins in a better position. I guess I may look at things differently but the way I see it is like this, yes Springs is better than Hall but it doesn't matter how much better Springs is when he is only going to play 5 or 6 games. We need a corner that can play at least 14 of the 16 games. We know what Hall brings to the table and I really don't see him being a problem in the locker room for the Redskins. And with Hall we have 3 first round picks in the secondary.

I am not looking for Haynesworth to get double digits sacks this year I am anticipating the double teams that he will see which should free up Carter and Fletcher to make the play. I mean I really don't think that Fletcher ever got the benefit of having a monster DT in front of him eating up the blockers and letting him make the plays. IMO, Fletcher is the hardest working MLB in the game. With us being able to get more pressure on the opposing QB we should force the QB in to making errant passes in which Hall will hopefully turn into turnovers for us, if not Hall than hopefully Horton...

Now, Dockery, IMO we should have tried to keep him but he did the same thing that every NFL player will do chase the money, cant blame him for that. But he is much better than Kendall, IMO. I mean Kendall did a good job filling in for us but the chemistry that exist between Samuels and Dockery can't be replaced in that short of time. I think that Samuels and Dockery will get things back in order in no time and our left side of the line will be one of the best in the NFL.

Just my thoughts....

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;533061]I definitely agree that long term it is better to have Dock and Hall but as far as talent and production at this moment it is probably a wash.

I just think that if you look big picture you can't say that the 2009 Redskins have a significant advantage in talent over the 2008 team. Of course we expect JC and the second year receivers to improve but still...

Danny and Vinny are going to have to win me back over with the Taylor cap space.[/quote]

You are right. We fill holes by creating them elsewhere. However, these are the growing pains of the massive youth movement going on. I'm all for the youth movement. It is how you build a dynasty - let 'em grow up together.

Of course, the problem is that you need more than four draft choices to run a youth movement. Ugh.

You are also right that VC had better use that J.Taylor cap space intelligently. Don't squander the cash after squandering the draft picks!

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

[quote=Redskins8588;533074]I disagree with you on the statement in bold. I think that with the addition of Haynesworth, Dockery, and the retention of Hall, puts the Redskins in a better position. I guess I may look at things differently but the way I see it is like this, yes Springs is better than Hall but it doesn't matter how much better Springs is when he is only going to play 5 or 6 games. We need a corner that can play at least 14 of the 16 games. We know what Hall brings to the table and I really don't see him being a problem in the locker room for the Redskins. And with Hall we have 3 first round picks in the secondary.

I am not looking for Haynesworth to get double digits sacks this year I am anticipating the double teams that he will see which should free up Carter and Fletcher to make the play. I mean I really don't think that Fletcher ever got the benefit of having a monster DT in front of him eating up the blockers and letting him make the plays. IMO, Fletcher is the hardest working MLB in the game. With us being able to get more pressure on the opposing QB we should force the QB in to making errant passes in which Hall will hopefully turn into turnovers for us, if not Hall than hopefully Horton...

Now, Dockery, IMO we should have tried to keep him but he did the same thing that every NFL player will do chase the money, cant blame him for that. But he is much better than Kendall, IMO. I mean Kendall did a good job filling in for us but the chemistry that exist between Samuels and Dockery can't be replaced in that short of time. I think that Samuels and Dockery will get things back in order in no time and our left side of the line will be one of the best in the NFL.

Just my thoughts....[/quote]

I hope you are right but for $200 in new contracts should there even be a question?

I read an article in the Times and as of right now Blades and Chris Wilson are projected starters. We just spent $200 million and Blades and Chris Wilson are going to start?

It looks like the Giant's plan was much better than ours.

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

[quote=Redskins8588;533074]I disagree with you on the statement in bold. I think that with the addition of Haynesworth, Dockery, and the retention of Hall, puts the Redskins in a better position. I guess I may look at things differently but the way I see it is like this, yes Springs is better than Hall but it doesn't matter how much better Springs is when he is only going to play 5 or 6 games. We need a corner that can play at least 14 of the 16 games. We know what Hall brings to the table and I really don't see him being a problem in the locker room for the Redskins. And with Hall we have 3 first round picks in the secondary.

I am not looking for Haynesworth to get double digits sacks this year I am anticipating the double teams that he will see which should free up Carter and Fletcher to make the play. I mean I really don't think that Fletcher ever got the benefit of having a monster DT in front of him eating up the blockers and letting him make the plays. IMO, Fletcher is the hardest working MLB in the game. With us being able to get more pressure on the opposing QB we should force the QB in to making errant passes in which Hall will hopefully turn into turnovers for us, if not Hall than hopefully Horton...

Now, Dockery, IMO we should have tried to keep him but he did the same thing that every NFL player will do chase the money, cant blame him for that. But he is much better than Kendall, IMO. I mean Kendall did a good job filling in for us but the chemistry that exist between Samuels and Dockery can't be replaced in that short of time. I think that Samuels and Dockery will get things back in order in no time and our left side of the line will be one of the best in the NFL.

Just my thoughts....[/quote]

Nice post 8588. Especially good stuff in the last paragraph as i don't get how some people suggest Dock isn't a massive, literally, upgrade over Kendall. We're talking about 35 lbs in mass difference on a far younger body, and Samuels/Dock destroyed opposing defenders up through '06. I wouldn't even keep Kendall for insurance. Dock isn't injury prone and we can rely on Jansen/Rinehart to step up and they're both guaranteed keepers through this season.

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

The link on Burnett I just posted also has a list of the remaining FA's by team.

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

[quote=53Fan;533073]Here's some info on Burnett. It appears the Raiders are looking at him. If this is correct, and i'm not sure it is, he appears a little light, but he played really well in a backup role and is looking to go somewhere where he can start. [url=http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player?statsId=7218]FOX Sports on MSN: Kevin Burnett, Linebacker, NFL[/url][/quote]

That's why either Burnett or Crowell would be a smart sign because both are looking to start full time, and I think they could exceed expectations just like Horton did last year. I think Burnett has more upside given he has no injury history and he's 26.

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;533048]Two draft picks...

I am starting to really get pissed over this.

I think you can make the argument that even after adding Haynesworth, Hall and Dockery that we aren't any better than our opening day roster last year now that we have lost Taylor, Springs and Washington (also assuming that Kendall is gone).

A whole lot of money spent and nothing to show for it...[/quote]

In what universe is an '09 Taylor, Springs and Washington better than Haynesworth, Hall and Dockery? All of the former Redskins missed significant time last season, Washington and Springs many games over the previous couple of seasons too. Dockery is an upgrade in age, athleticism and production from Kendall. I don't see how this offseason is 'a whole lot of money spend and nothing to show for it.'

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

[quote=Redskins8588;533074]I disagree with you on the statement in bold. I think that with the addition of Haynesworth, Dockery, and the retention of Hall, puts the Redskins in a better position. I guess I may look at things differently but the way I see it is like this, yes [B]Springs is better than Hall [/B]but it doesn't matter how much better Springs is when he is only going to play 5 or 6 games. We need a corner that can play at least 14 of the 16 games. We know what Hall brings to the table and I really don't see him being a problem in the locker room for the Redskins. And with Hall we have 3 first round picks in the secondary.

I am not looking for Haynesworth to get double digits sacks this year I am anticipating the double teams that he will see which should free up Carter and Fletcher to make the play. I mean I really don't think that Fletcher ever got the benefit of having a monster DT in front of him eating up the blockers and letting him make the plays. IMO, Fletcher is the hardest working MLB in the game. With us being able to get more pressure on the opposing QB we should force the QB in to making errant passes in which [B]Hall will hopefully [/B]turn into turnovers for us, if not Hall than hopefully Horton...

Now, Dockery, IMO we should have tried to keep him but he did the same thing that every NFL player will do chase the money, cant blame him for that. But he is much better than Kendall, IMO. I mean Kendall did a good job filling in for us but the chemistry that exist between Samuels and Dockery can't be replaced in that short of time. [B]I think that Samuels and Dockery will get things back in order in no time and our left side of the line will be one of the best in the NFL.[/B]

Just my thoughts....[/quote]

Agree with almost all of your post 8588. But Hall is better than Springs in 08' and will be in 09 and beyond. You don't have to hope for Hall to make INT's. He definatly will. [quote]I think that Samuels and Dockery will get things back in order in no time and our left side of the line will be [B]one of the best in the NFL[/B][/quote] You got that right brother!!!

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

What gives w/ all these lightweight LBs on the FA market... oh wait these are basically the guys left over. Seriously, do we really want to depend on a 220 lb frame to bring down the likes of Jacobs, Ward (if he stays in NY), or Barber?

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

ward just got signed by tb

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

[quote=vallin21;533084]That's why either Burnett or Crowell would be a smart sign because both are looking to start full time, and I think they could exceed expectations just like Horton did last year. I think Burnett has more upside given he has no injury history and he's 26.[/quote]

I agree Vallin and I don't think we'd have to break the bank to get 'em.

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

[quote=53Fan;533093]I agree Vallin and I don't think we'd have to break the bank to get 'em.[/quote]

Exactly

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

[quote=Bubba305-ST21-;533092]ward just got signed by tb[/quote]

Really? Glad we don't have to face him twice a year

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

Smart move. I thought some folks in here were crazy for really wanting him back. He was oft injured and only had the one stellar game at the end of the season. I guess they thought he might have caught fire, but you don't keep a guy that is rarely on the field or isn't really performing to expectations.

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

[quote=Paintrain;533085]In what universe is an '09 Taylor, Springs and Washington better than Haynesworth, Hall and Dockery? All of the former Redskins missed significant time last season, Washington and Springs many games over the previous couple of seasons too. Dockery is an upgrade in age, athleticism and production from Kendall. I don't see how this offseason is 'a whole lot of money spend and nothing to show for it.'[/quote]
Totally agree. Springs and Washington were used up for the most part and were off the field almost as much as they were on, if not more with Springs. Giving Haynesworth that huge contract was ridiculous though.

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

wish we had this in time to get canty.

oh well... cromwell and burnett at LB, nugent/smith at K/P, daneils/evans for DE, kendall at OL (insurance), and willis as the big (but not that big) FA move.

that gives you a solid line with 3 depth OL (jansen/heyer/kendall), some LB depth, better special teams (though we still need a PR not named randle-el) and great DL depth.

for the draft, ideally we'd take orakpo (though he seems to have moved into a top 5-10 type position now from a top 10-15).

we can afford to take a risk with smith with that much OL depth, or we can take a young linebacker, though rey is a bit slow compared to fletcher or a standard cover type LB, he'd be good as a standard 4-3 MLB or 3-4 LB.

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

as a side note - maybe this money was the oh sh*t cash to rework our current contracts and make 2010 workable in case there is a new cap.

I doubt the cap goes down in CBA talks or with a running TV deal, even with the economy and the "poor" owners like the bills etc.

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

[quote=That Guy;533119]wish we had this in time to get canty.

oh well... cromwell and burnett at LB, nugent/smith at K/P, daneils/evans for DE, kendall at OL (insurance), and [B]willis as the big (but not that big) FA move.[/B]

that gives you a solid line with 3 depth OL (jansen/heyer/kendall), some LB depth, better special teams (though we still need a PR not named randle-el) and great DL depth.

for the draft, ideally we'd take orakpo (though he seems to have moved into a top 5-10 type position now from a top 10-15).

we can afford to take a risk with smith with that much OL depth, or we can take a young linebacker, though rey is a bit slow compared to fletcher or a standard cover type LB, he'd be good as a standard 4-3 MLB or 3-4 LB.[/quote]

Surprised to see Saden thinks Willis is a lousy OL (i figure he's seen Willis more than the rest of us being in Seattle). Willis started 10 games and I believe played in all 16 but only gave up 1.5 sacks... statistically far better than any FA left.

... you have us loading up on a lot of players here.

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

realistically, how many roster spots are available with the cap space that we have?

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

[quote=Paintrain;533085]In what universe is an '09 Taylor, Springs and Washington better than Haynesworth, Hall and Dockery? All of the former Redskins missed significant time last season, Washington and Springs many games over the previous couple of seasons too. Dockery is an upgrade in age, athleticism and production from Kendall. I don't see how this offseason is 'a whole lot of money spend and nothing to show for it.'[/quote]

I didn't say those 3 were better, I said that the '09 roster isn't much better than the '08 roster.

Dockery is bigger but I wouldn't say he is a significant upgrade over Kendall. I don't think the left side of the line lost anything with Kendall the last two years.

When healthy (the big if) Springs is more talented than Hall. He has more skill. He is more physical and can play nickel.

You know why we have nothing to show for it? Because Chris Wilson and Blades are projected starters. That is horrible and unacceptable after $180million + goes out the door. Plus, take a look at Haynesworth's comments on why he chose Washington over Tampa Bay. I would love to know what he is thinking now that Springs and Taylor are gone.

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

JT appears to be drawing interest, but no love from the tuna.....

TWELVE TEAMS INTERESTED IN TAYLOR
Posted by Mike Florio on March 2, 2009, 11:24 p.m.

The best part of a Miami Herald commenter’s decision to pose as Armando Salguero and post a comment indicating that free-agent defensive end Jason Taylor has re-signed with the Dolphins is that the non-story gave us the occasion to explore the situation.

And we learned that a dozen teams already have expressed interest in the 2006 defensive player of the year.

But not the Dolphins.

As we hear it, Taylor is going to take some time before making a decision. And that makes sense — anyone who signs him in March will expect him to participate in the offseason program, and that’s precisely why he was cut by the Redskins.

So if he continues to play, he’ll likely sign a contract in June or July.

Also, don’t rule out the possibility that Taylor will call it quits. The aspiring actor had a movie deal on the table last year, in the wake of his successful stint on Dancing With The Stars.

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

[quote=That Guy;533120]as a side note - maybe this money was the oh sh*t cash to rework our current contracts and make 2010 workable in case there is a new cap.

I doubt the cap goes down in CBA talks or with a running TV deal, even with the economy and the "poor" owners like the bills etc.[/quote]

another good possibility, but I feel our FO doesn't have that much foresight. it hasnt in the last 10 yrs

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

Look for Chris Wilson and Rob Jackson to get a huge increase in playing time this year, unless of course we draft Brian Orakpo or my boy Michael Johnson. I also think it's worth nothing that Jackson weighs in at around 269 pounds according to ESPN.com. If thats so then he definately has the size to play LDE though he might be a little on the small size as 275-280 seems ideal.

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

Mad speculation, GTripp style:

[url=http://redskinshogheaven.com/2009/03/redskins-allergy-to-cap-space-means-more-moves-on-horizon.html]Redskins' Allergy to Cap Space Means More Moves on Horizon - Hog Heaven[/url]

(!)

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

[quote=franklinhimself;533133]another good possibility, but I feel our FO doesn't have that much foresight. it hasnt in the last 10 yrs[/quote]

We would of had the same 8.5M off the cap if Jason Taylor just played his last year with us and retired like he was supposed to after this year.

This new money is certainly for pending talent. They need it too because it's imperative that we secure some additional depth with this money.

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

[quote=The Goat;533090]What gives w/ all these lightweight LBs on the FA market... oh wait these are basically the guys left over. Seriously, do we really want to depend on a 220 lb frame to bring down the likes of Jacobs, Ward (if he stays in NY), or Barber?[/quote]

Once again you're in over your head Goat. At this point in free agency the pickings have gotten slim and we need somebody if only for depth. Burnett had 2 sacks, a forced fumble and 3 passes defensed in a very limited role. He was a 2nd round pick by the Cowgirls and is a solid player. A lot of LB's are tweeners because they're to small to play DE but they're still productive players. Unless you're AH you're going to have problems bringing down a 260 pound Jacobs unless you hit him low (ask Landry). Unless we bring MW back we need to do something, and this is a young player who can obviously blitz the QB and cover pretty well.

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Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

[quote=The Goat;533122]Surprised to see Saden thinks Willis is a lousy OL (i figure he's seen Willis more than the rest of us being in Seattle). Willis started 10 games and I believe played in all 16 but only gave up 1.5 sacks... statistically far better than any FA left.

... you have us loading up on a lot of players here.[/quote]

i doubt we get or go after all of them, but none of them are expensive, and we have holes. at WR we could try henderson too i guess, but i think the FO is going to ride that out this year and let the defense try to carry things.

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

[quote=GTripp0012;533138]Mad speculation, GTripp style:

[URL="http://redskinshogheaven.com/2009/03/redskins-allergy-to-cap-space-means-more-moves-on-horizon.html"]Redskins' Allergy to Cap Space Means More Moves on Horizon - Hog Heaven[/URL]

(!)[/quote]

great article. I'm not sure weaver is a very good buy though, but i agree with the rest.

Re: Jason Taylor Released
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;532875]I wish they would have done this before the Giant signed Canty.[/quote]

Why? Last years stats look fairly similar to me, and Evans would come for half the $.

[U]Chris Canty[/U] 6ft7in 304lbs Age:26
YEAR TEAM G TOT SOLO AST PD SACK FF
2005 DAL 16 35 23 12 0 2.5 1
2006 DAL 16 33 24 9 1 1.0 0
2007 DAL 16 43 30 13 2 3.5 0
2008 DAL 16 37 25 12 5 3.0 0

[U]Demetric Evans[/U] 6ft4in 293lbs Age:29
YEAR TEAM G TOT SOLO AST PD SACK FF
2001 DAL 16 23 19 4 2 1.0 0
2002 DAL 4 2 1 1 0 0.0 1
2004 WAS 12 26 17 9 1 2.5 0
2005 WAS 16 22 17 5 2 3.0 0
2006 WAS 16 16 14 2 1 2.0 1
2007 WAS 16 25 18 7 3 1.0 1
2008 WAS 16 33 20 13 2 3.5 0

I really dont see why some people got so excited about Canty. He had a decent year(in a 3-4), but thats alot of money for a guy with 10 career sacks.