Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=Skins4Eva;542536]I have a few questions?

1. Was our 6-2 start last year a product of Jason Campbell's ability to win games with his arm or our defense shutting opponents down and Clinton Portis running wild?[/quote]

I think it was combination of the following: Defense shutting down teams and in the offense having a strong running game that allowed for a passing game. In the offense, the key was having an offensive line that allowed for Portis to run and kept Campbell upright.

[quote=Skins4Eva;542536]I have a few questions?

2. Teams [U]dared[/U] Campbell to beat them. When teams decided to take Portis away with 8 and 9 man fronts, how many games did Jason put this team on his back and win?[/quote]

I honestly feel that teams were doing this from day 1. The Redskins offensive threat has always been the running game, and we were not known for being a big passing team. The problem during the 2-6 slide was that teams were shutting down Portis and our offensive line couldn't keep Campbell upright. Oh and we faced some nasty defenses too.

[quote=Skins4Eva;542536]I have a few questions?

3. Look at any footage of Campbell and Cutler...tell me who is a better quarterback and who you, as a defensive coordinator, would dread playing against?[/quote]

I know this is going to sound like a cop out, but I would say whoever has the least protection. Cutler had a line that only gave up 12 sacks, while Campbell's line allowed him to get sacked 38 times.

[quote=Skins4Eva;542536]I have a few questions?

4. Do you think teams in our division are happy or sad that we didn't get Cutler?[/quote]

I'm sure they would have been glad to have seen us trade for Cutler, which would have led to...us not addressing other areas of need in the draft, be without a 1st rounder next year, have Zorn on a short leash for the entire season, and cause a locker room problems.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=GridIron26;542538]You may be right, but we don't know who for sure was the one who wanted Cutler.. It may be just our Danny boy, while everybody wants to keep Campbell.. It may be other way, but the only thing we won't know is who tried to pull the trigger.. From what Campbell have said, it appears as if Zorn was on his side..[/quote]

I tend to think Danny is the anti-JC force and everyone inside the franchise knows this to some extent. Players have supported JC in the past and would now if they weren't being mindful of Danny's potential wrath. I think Zorn, a character guy himself, likes Campbell a whole lot [B]and knows he can turn the kid into a Pro-Bowler much as he did the similarly talented Hasselbeck[/B]. Again this is why i think Danny is so f'ing stupid for thinking we need to mortgage the future (at OL, LB, etc) to get the flashiest QB available this year. QB IS NOT OUR ISSUE LOOKING AT JC'S TREND OF IMPROVEMENT AND WHO WE HAVE COACHING HIM UP. Take the best OL or Rey @ 13 and laugh all the way home :)

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=The Goat;542541]I tend to think Danny is the anti-JC force and everyone inside the franchise knows this to some extent. Players have supported JC in the past and would now if they weren't being mindful of Danny's potential wrath. I think Zorn, a character guy himself, likes Campbell a whole lot [B]and knows he can turn the kid into a Pro-Bowler much as he did the similarly talented Hasselbeck[/B]. Again this is why i think Danny is so f'ing stupid for thinking we need to mortgage the future (at OL, LB, etc) to get the flashiest QB available this year. QB IS NOT OUR ISSUE LOOKING AT JC'S TREND OF IMPROVEMENT AND WHO WE HAVE COACHING HIM UP. Take the best OL or Rey @ 13 and laugh all the way home :)[/quote]

Man, what's with all the CAPS today? LOL. By the way, anyone who wants to feel better about themselves as a football, go over to the Denver Post or any other Denver area newspaper/sport website and look at the comments left by people on this situation. People are going f'ing insane. The Denver Post had a whole bunch of fan rants in their website. McDaniels is not a popular guy right now in Denver.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

Wait, if the herb-loving Raji falls we pass on Oher, Rey or anyone else right?

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=The Goat;542543]Wait, if the herb-loving Raji falls we pass on Oher, Rey or anyone else right?[/quote]

Sounds like you're loving some herbs yourself. LOL. :laughing2

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

Not tonight...this a-hole at the office gave me his cold ;)

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

Ugh. Between two threads almost 1000 posts about Jay Friggin Cutler. I'm done.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=GTripp0012;542494]Why don't you worry about someone who actually underachieved last year like Fred Smoot, or Greg Blache?

Is it because you don't know what role they have on this team? You're knowledge of the team is only skin deep?[/quote]

Just because you have time to post over 7,000 times doesn't make you more knowlegdeable of the Skins than I am. You don't have a clue to what I know about this team. I just breath, eat and sleep the skins for the past 26 years.
ANYWAY, I like Campbell as a person. he's a stand up guy and I liked how he took this whole Cutler thing. However, I don't think he will have a break out year. Everyone blames the Oline when its actually both. I said a couple of months ago i'll give him one more year to prove himself. GTripp, I really hope you're right. I have nothing against him personally. I want him to be a pro-bowler I just don't think he's that good. Sorry.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

I was absolutely for getting Jay Cutler, but Im glad we didn't with the price the Bears paid. WOW. 2 1sts, a 3rd and Orton? Thats far out of my price range.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

Enough on Cutler, Campbell is our QB. I can't wait to see Snyderato claim that Campbell is their man with a straight face. Snyder has done nothing but undermine Campbell by creating instability with 3 coordinators in Campbell's first 4 seasons, then wonders why Campbell is still a work in progress. At least Zorn is a believer.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

Instead of 18 game seasons we should ban trades for next year, since apparently owners don't have the right to offer players in trade talks without being demonized. To be fair we will have to abolish free agency.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=SouperMeister;542553]Enough on Cutler, Campbell is our QB. I can't wait to see Snyderato claim that Campbell is their man with a straight face. Snyder has done nothing but undermine Campbell by creating instability with 3 coordinators in Campbell's first 4 seasons, then wonders why Campbell is still a work in progress. At least Zorn is a believer.[/quote]

Not to defend Snyderatto, at all, but you can't put the 3 coordinators all on him. Gibbs brought Saunders in and then handcuffed him. If Saunders was able to call his game with JC in '07 I'd bet he wouldn't have been let go in '08 because the results would have been there that Snyder wanted to see.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=Daseal;542552]I was absolutely for getting Jay Cutler, but Im glad we didn't with the price the Bears paid. WOW. 2 1sts, a 3rd and Orton? Thats far out of my price range.[/quote]

Well-said all around.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=Skins4Eva;542536]I have a few questions?

1. Was our 6-2 start last year a product of Jason Campbell's ability to win games with his arm or our defense shutting opponents down and Clinton Portis running wild?

2. Teams [U]dared[/U] Campbell to beat them. When teams decided to take Portis away with 8 and 9 man fronts, how many games did Jason put this team on his back and win?

3. Look at any footage of Campbell and Cutler...tell me who is a better quarterback and who you, as a defensive coordinator, would dread playing against?

4. Do you think teams in our division are happy or sad that we didn't get Cutler?

Now that this Cutler madness is over, let me sya, that Campbell is a man of character and class from the way he has handled this situation. However, unlike many of you on this board, I was hoping like hell that we pulled off this deal. The only thing about the deal that made me uneasy was the amount of picks that we would have given up. However, if you break the bank, you dont break it for a Defensive Tackle, you break it for a QB with unlimited potential, like Cutler. With that said, I hope JC shuts up all of the doubters but we all need to be reminded that he has given doubters reason to doubt his ability to be our franchise QB. I would love to see JC succeed because that means we as fans will have something to cheer for other than free agency signings. But what bothers me about what I am reading on this board is the refusal to acknowledge that Cutler is light years better than Campbell. We couldnt get a second round pick for him if we tried. Im all about optimism and will support the hell out of JC this year, however, I am not blinded by my own optimism that I am a little bummed that we could not get a 25 year old Pro Bowl QB. Cutler is definitely a little girl, but a talented little girl at that. Imagine Cutler with our defense and Portis. Wow. As for now...reality is JC is our starter and we should all support him as Skins fans.[/quote]

Great post...I could not have said it better.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

Great post and well said! Glad that this is over!

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=sancho2613;542537]don't know if this has already been posted? but apparently Redskins have a problem....
[url=http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/04/02/suddenly-redskins-have-a-problem/]ProFootballTalk.com - Suddenly, Redskins Have A Problem[/url][/quote]

I blame only myself for clicking on that and reading that garbage

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=Skins4Eva;542536]I have a few questions?

1. Was our 6-2 start last year a product of Jason Campbell's ability to win games with his arm or our defense shutting opponents down and Clinton Portis running wild?

2. Teams [U]dared[/U] Campbell to beat them. When teams decided to take Portis away with 8 and 9 man fronts, how many games did Jason put this team on his back and win?

3. Look at any footage of Campbell and Cutler...tell me who is a better quarterback and who you, as a defensive coordinator, would dread playing against?

4. Do you think teams in our division are happy or sad that we didn't get Cutler?

Now that this Cutler madness is over, let me sya, that Campbell is a man of character and class from the way he has handled this situation. However, unlike many of you on this board, I was hoping like hell that we pulled off this deal. The only thing about the deal that made me uneasy was the amount of picks that we would have given up. However, if you break the bank, you dont break it for a Defensive Tackle, you break it for a [B]QB with unlimited potential, like Cutler. [/B] With that said, I hope JC shuts up all of the doubters but we all need to be reminded that he has given doubters reason to doubt his ability to be our franchise QB. I would love to see JC succeed because that means we as fans will have something to cheer for other than free agency signings. But what bothers me about what I am reading on this board is the refusal to acknowledge that Cutler is light years better than Campbell. We couldnt get a second round pick for him if we tried. Im all about optimism and will support the hell out of JC this year, however, I am not blinded by my own optimism that I am a little bummed that we could not get a 25 year old Pro Bowl QB. Cutler is definitely a little girl, but a talented little girl at that. Imagine Cutler with our defense and Portis. Wow. As for now...reality is JC is our starter and we should all support him as Skins fans.[/quote]

When you say "unlimited potential" do you mean his schizophrenic behavior? i.e. putting his house on the market for sale and demanding a trade, and then saying "I didn't expect to be traded so soon". Or are you referring to the fact that he is diabetic, but drinks his ass off? Cutler has proven that he is only a spoiled brat. You judge him by "pro bowl" which tells me that you know nothing. Pro Bowl is a load of crap. Youre clearly not all about optimism if you were hoping this deal goes down.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

It's remarkable how no one can ever think to give credit to the Redskins. No one can ever say the Redskins tested the market, decided they weren't going to get what they wanted and backed out. No, it's always "so and so saved the Redskins from themselves"

We complain that the team values other players more than its own, but it seems like we fans value other teams more than our own as well..

By the way, I believe Orton's career record is 19-11 so based on many people's criteria, he's clearly a better QB than either Cutler or Campbell.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=SmootSmack;542579]It's remarkable how no one can ever think to give credit to the Redskins. No one can ever say the Redskins tested the market, decided they weren't going to get what they wanted and backed out. No, it's always "so and so saved the Redskins from themselves"

We complain that the team values other players more than its own, but it seems like we fans value other teams more than our own as well..

By the way, I believe Orton's career record is 19-11 so based on many people's criteria, he's clearly a better QB than either Cutler or Campbell.[/quote]

Well said.

Football is cliche and so are the "expert" posters.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=SmootSmack;542579]It's remarkable how no one can ever think to give credit to the Redskins. No one can ever say the Redskins tested the market, decided they weren't going to get what they wanted and backed out. No, it's always "so and so saved the Redskins from themselves"

We complain that the team values other players more than its own, but it seems like we fans value other teams more than our own as well..

By the way, I believe Orton's career record is 19-11 so based on many people's criteria, he's clearly a better QB than either Cutler or Campbell.[/quote]

It's not testing the market that bothers me. It's the way we handle it. Apparently there were about a dozen other teams "testing the market" for Cutler's services. Did any of them have a "GM" or HC come out and say their current starter was the guy, there was no interest in Cutler, and then backtrack a week later?

Danny and Co. have set their own precedent. That's why despite the fact that other teams were bigger players for Cutler, we were the team leading every ESPN broadcast mentioning the whole thing. We look silly and confused. We say one thing and do another. Our owner is pulling all the personnel strings, which this (and Haynesworth) has made profoundly clear. We reassured JC he wasn't going anywhere, then turned around and actively shopped him while trying to acquire Cutler. We look like we have no idea what we're doing, and it's not the first time. That's my issue.

So yeah, the Bears saved us from ourselves. Wouldn't you say the Bengals did the same thing last offseason?

Do you really think we decided we weren't going to get what we wanted and backed out? Granted you have way more resources than I do on the matter, but I'd say we got outbid. And because of past FA moves we didn't have the picks to match.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=SmootSmack;542579]It's remarkable how no one can ever think to give credit to the Redskins. No one can ever say the Redskins tested the market, decided they weren't going to get what they wanted and backed out. No, it's always "so and so saved the Redskins from themselves"

We complain that the team values other players more than its own, but it seems like we fans value other teams more than our own as well..

By the way, I believe Orton's career record is 19-11 so based on many people's criteria, he's clearly a better QB than either Cutler or Campbell.[/quote]

Mr. Smack.
If it was a classy as that, I'd be fine...but the skins did not just test the market here...they caused a potential PR firestorm and undermined trust with the most important player on the team.

I agree that Orton aint crap and fans are fickle...but you can't honestly believe that this was handled well.

Look at Coach Williams last year...look at Chad Johnson.
If Snyder doesn't have a childhood hero to keep him in check (gibbs)...who knows what he will do next?

That is not good for the psyche and stability of the squad...nor does it do much to attract free agents with price being equal.
Snyder has damaged trust with Campbell...but my old school ways still say...GOOD....let the guy Prove he belongs here long term...if he does...reward the hell outta him!

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

I think, rightly or wrongly, the Redskins put themselves or are put into almost every discussion. More often than not though it's the Redskins Front Office saying no at the end. But, I guess because of past history, people don't want to believe that.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

Anyhow, Campbell has handled very well through all of this. But I wouldn't mind seeing him get a little pissed off and take absolute command of this team on and off the field. It kind of reminds of earlier this season when the Grizzlies benched PG Mike Conley (I think it was Conley) and his reaction was "oh well, whatever the team needs" and the President of the Grizzlies said "No, this is what is pissing us off about you. Get mad! Get upset! Get out there and demand that the job is yours and prove it. Enough of the nice guy act"

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

I wouldn't mind knowing exactly what Snyder said to anybody in the Denver FO regarding the trade. Did he make a cursory inquiry or did he actually engage in super serious negotiations? If anybody has confirmed knowledge, not media speculation, of Snyder's actual actions please speak up.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

Okay after reading this entire thread. SmootSmack stop being so reasonable!

Oh and Tripp...what you said. Anyone here trying to make an argument against Tripp has failed entirely. Epic fail really.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

This sucks.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=SmootSmack;542588]I think, rightly or wrongly, the Redskins put themselves or are put into almost every discussion. More often than not though it's the Redskins Front Office saying no at the end. But, I guess because of past history, people don't want to believe that.[/quote]

Well, even if we are put into a discussion without any credible reason, it's because of the precedent Danny has set.

As far as us saying no at the end, I hope you're right. If I knew that for sure, I'd certainly have a lot more confidence. But I'll take your word on it.

When Danny gets his mind set on someone, he almost always get him, regardless of cost. That's why I have a hard time believing we just push back from the table when the price gets too steep.

Wanna fight about it? :)

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=skinsnut;542586]Mr. Smack.
[b]If it was a classy as that, I'd be fine...but the skins did not just test the market here...they caused a potential PR firestorm and undermined trust with the most important player on the team.

I agree that Orton aint crap and fans are fickle...but you can't honestly believe that this was handled well.[/b]

[b]Look at Coach Williams last year[/b]...look at Chad Johnson.
If Snyder doesn't have a childhood hero to keep him in check (gibbs)...who knows what he will do next?

That is not good for the psyche and stability of the squad...nor does it do much to attract free agents with price being equal.
Snyder has damaged trust with Campbell...but my old school ways still say...GOOD....let the guy Prove he belongs here long term...if he does...reward the hell outta him![/quote]

Not to defend Snyderatto and this isn't my fight, but explain to me exactly what the Redskins FO DID to 'cause a firestorm' and what wasn't handled well? They pursued a player that was made available for trade. They have no control over the Mort, Clayton, Florio speculation and all that's associated with it. Please tell me something TANGIBLE they did wrong.

The Williams thing is 2 camps both hurling BS at each other. Williams ego'd his way out of town (and did a great job in Jacksonville, didn't he?) and then tried to act like poor Coach Williams, I don't know what happened. Sure Snyder and Cerratto could have not said anything but neither side was 'right' in this case.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

Also, we weren't the only team saying we were/are committed to our current starting QB and not interested. It's part of the negotiation.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

Actually I feel pretty good right now. Mr. Snyder found out you don't always get what you want. Hopefully JC will show him this year that that is not always a bad thing. For those who want to bash our QB, :pffff: Get over it. He's who we have and we'll see how well he does in his second season w/Zorn. Somehow I feel we got away from making a big mistake. If JC does'nt cut it this year, whoever the new QB is will be taking over a better team than Cutler would have because we didn't throw away our picks. I feel good, just like I knew I would. :)

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=GMScud;542597]Well, even if we are put into a discussion without any credible reason, it's because of the precedent Danny has set.

As far as us saying no at the end, I hope you're right. If I knew that for sure, I'd certainly have a lot more confidence. But I'll take your word on it.

[b]When Danny gets his mind set on someone, he almost always get him, regardless of cost. That's why I have a hard time believing we just push back from the table when the price gets too steep.[/b]

Wanna fight about it? :)[/quote]

So do you think that Snyder would have kept upping his offer until Denver said yes and they decided to go with a lesser offer? All he had to do was say (in your logic) 'whatever anyone else offers, we'll do that plus an additional first' and we would have gotten him. Everybody has their limits to what they're willing to do.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=Paintrain;542603]So do you think that Snyder would have kept upping his offer until Denver said yes and they decided to go with a lesser offer? All he had to do was say (in your logic) 'whatever anyone else offers, we'll do that plus an additional first' and we would have gotten him. Everybody has their limits to what they're willing to do.[/quote]

I guess maybe I worded that wrongly. I don't think Snyder is a totally blind fool (close though), but we all know he will overpay, sometimes grossly, when he really wants a guy. He's not scared of a pissing contest. That's all I meant.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

Just watched NFL Videos on nfl.com and Charley Casserly was saying how he thought Snyder would have easilly matched the Bears offer. He thought the difference was Kyle Orton was a better "fit" for the Denver offense. Sad to think that they may have thought that Orton was better than Campbell.

The Broncos got a lot of picks but probably got screwed. They should've just stuck with Cutler - he'd have to come back to camp eventually. Now ppl think they'll have to bundle picks to try to grab Sanchez early.. and then end up just where they started, but with a rookie QB and no first rounder to use on their horrible defense.

Well, either way -- now we have all our picks. I'm hoping for an OT, and if JC still has trouble this year, we can try to give Colt a chance, and then draft one of the 3-5 QB's next year. Guess the mock drafts just changed a little bit.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

Hey I am glad Snyder backed off. We have been doing so well in the past few years of drafting instead of trading away picks for vet's. I would like to say, however, that Orton IMO is a very underrated QB and will quickly become overrated in that high powered offense if he gets to start. One may ask who the winner was in this trade: Denver? Chicago? Cutler? The answer that no one expects is Orton. He will come out of this smelling like roses as long as he doesnt shoot himself in the foot. Cutler, on the other hand, will have to work extra hard in a stagnant offense to prove he is worth all the hype he has caused.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

At least the fans are behind Jason..I'm happy its over, and I hope Jason will be lights out this year.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

I hope all you fairweather, flaky, cowboy loving, Jason Campbell(solid NFL QB) bashing/hating, so called competative football fans feel stupid. Listening to Espn sportcenter jerks and idiots gets you know where! This should be a lesson to you. Watch and love Redskin football and don't jump on every reality show, soap opera you see on TV. There is enough groupies in the world! Redskins aren't drama groupies! We are pro football minds and men like Jason Campbell! I hope all you Jay Cutler groupies jump on the Bears bandwagon and eat a fat one!

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

I was just thinking, we all praise Jason Campbell for being a class act and taking this whole situation as a professional. Well I think we fans need to do the same thing. Football is a business, and the front office aggressively went after a QB a lot of experts deemed as being talented and with a lot of potential. They didn't get him and well it is time to move on.

After hearing some details of the negotiations, I said to myself "wow, Snyder didn't go all out for this trade". I heard on the NFLN that the 3rd rounder made a big difference in the Bears getting Cutler, something other teams, including the Redskins, were not willing to do. So, while the initial impulse of getting Cutler may have seen Snyderesque, having a line they were not willing to cross may be something new.

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=credskinsrule;542514]ya gotta put 1 lowercase in it or the board changes it for you[/quote]
I DON'T LIKE IT!!!lc

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

Can we resign jc if he has a good year this year. Ifthe answer is no then do we have an open competition this year with colt or so we draft sanchez?

Re: It's Over: Cutler Going to Chicago
 

[quote=ethat001;542639]Just watched NFL Videos on nfl.com and Charley Casserly was saying how he thought Snyder would have easilly matched the Bears offer. He thought the difference was Kyle Orton was a better "fit" for the Denver offense. Sad to think that they may have thought that Orton was better than Campbell.

The Broncos got a lot of picks but probably got screwed. They should've just stuck with Cutler - he'd have to come back to camp eventually. Now ppl think they'll have to bundle picks to try to grab Sanchez early.. and then end up just where they started, but with a rookie QB and no first rounder to use on their horrible defense.

Well, either way -- now we have all our picks. I'm hoping for an OT, and if JC still has trouble this year, we can try to give Colt a chance, and then draft one of the 3-5 QB's next year. Guess the mock drafts just changed a little bit.[/quote]

Thats exactly what Denver thought. If Campbell had to be part of the deal that was going to make it a tough sell. I was on the fence about this deal in that I am sure Cutler was going to be an upgrade but not really the franchise QB some think. With Campbell at the helm it will be another year of sputtering offense and less that 20ppg.