Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote=Ruhskins;658015]
I hope that the success of this Jets team has taught our owner (and a few simple-minded fans) the importance of building up a team in the trenches, before bringing in a young talented QB.[/quote]

I agree that offensive lines are vitally important. However, did the Saints or the Colts build up their offensive lines before they brought in Drew Bree's or Peyton? Did the Pittsburgh Steelers build up their Offensive line prior to drafting Ben? Lastly, the Patriots have only drafted one o-lineman in the first round since year 2000. Granted, they did draft 2 o-lineman in the second rounds, but I'm just having a hard time finding any historical evidence to support your theory of building a line before filling the most important position on the field, QB.

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote=Kalisto2010;658145]I agree that offensive lines are vitally important. However, did the Saints or the Colts build up their offensive lines before they brought in Drew Bree's or Peyton? Did the Pittsburgh Steelers build up their Offensive line prior to drafting Ben? Lastly, the Patriots have only drafted one o-lineman in the first round since year 2000. Granted, they did draft 2 o-lineman in the second rounds, but I'm just having a hard time finding any historical evidence to support your theory of building a line before filling the most important position on the field, QB.[/quote]

Were any of their lines as bad as ours before they got their QB?

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote=dgack;657232]First of all, it's [B]Shaun[/B] Hill.[/quote]

Really, your going to play the grammar card?

[quote][b]dgack[/b]The guy is serviceable and games *and yes, even championships*[/quote]

While your at it, you'll probably want to correct your own errors first before hastily correcting mine. You can start with this sentence. I can play grammar nazi too.

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote=Kalisto2010;658145]I agree that offensive lines are vitally important. However, did the Saints or the Colts build up their offensive lines before they brought in Drew Bree's or Peyton? Did the Pittsburgh Steelers build up their Offensive line prior to drafting Ben? Lastly, the Patriots have only drafted one o-lineman in the first round since year 2000. Granted, they did draft 2 o-lineman in the second rounds, but I'm just having a hard time finding any historical evidence to support your theory of building a line before filling the most important position on the field, QB.[/quote]

I think there is a lot of evidence to support the proposition: A rookie qb behind an ineffective line will lead to the demise of that rookie qb.

I know that is not the argument you made, but lets be honest, if we don't strengthen and deepen our OL ability, that is the proposition we are talking about.

fact 1: QB's that are not P. Manning are not guaranteed to be franchise qb's. And any rookie qb can get shell shocked by the speed of the game, even behind a good oline.

fact 2: We do not have a good oline. Remember we played 5 0fer teams in a row(not counting the Giants who hadn't played a game) and still had a high sack count. JC rushed more than any other qb in our division, and we still had a high sack count.

fact 3: In recent years, teams with Rookie qbs and solid lines have done far better than qbs with rookie qbs and weak lines. Prime example is NYJ/Sanchez, and Balt/Flacco. Neither of those qbs had stellar stats, yet both grew into their position behind very good olines, compared to Det/Stafford.

So the question is do we need to have the Shanahan Hogs in place before we get a franchise qb?

My answer would be no, but you need to have them in place before the qb takes a seasons worth of snaps.

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote=Son Of Man;658007]As a rookie, Sanchez is a better leader/player than jason is after 5 seasons. Period![/quote]
That's just idiotic. Sanchez had little if no effect on the Jets' success this season, they're starting 4 first-round picks on the O-line, had the #1 defense in the NFL and one of the best running games also.

All Sanchez had to do was hand off the ball without dropping it.

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote=Buster;658152]That's just idiotic. Sanchez had little if no effect on the Jets' success this season, they're starting 4 first-round picks on the O-line, had the #1 defense in the NFL and one of the best running games also.

All Sanchez had to do was hand off the ball without dropping it.[/quote]

Come on, you have to give the guy some credit. He played well enough for the Jets to win yesterday. He gave the overrated Jets D an 11 point lead. He made a lot of clutch 3rd down conversions. He also threaded a few beauties on the sideline to Cotchery. A 139, and a 93 passer rating for your first 2 playoff games are far above average.

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote=Kalisto2010;658182]Come on, you have to give the guy some credit. He played well enough for the Jets to win yesterday. He gave the overrated Jets D an 11 point lead. He made a lot of clutch 3rd down conversions. He also threaded a few beauties on the sideline to Cotchery. A 139, and a 93 passer rating for your first 2 playoff games are far above average.[/quote]

I don't think anyone is saying he's not good, but let's really look at the game of football as what it is: a TEAM game. This year they played great defense, great run attack, and Sanchez picked his spots to do well. He did very well yesterday, but he isn't ready to put a team on his back and carry him, which he shouldn't have to do all the time with a great team.

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote=Bushead;658186]I don't think anyone is saying he's not good, but let's really look at the game of football as what it is: a TEAM game. This year they played great defense, great run attack, and Sanchez picked his spots to do well. He did very well yesterday, but he isn't ready to put a team on his back and carry him, which he shouldn't have to do all the time with a great team.[/quote]

I agree he's no where near to being able to carry his team. But in a few short years he will be. Providing the Jets compliment him with some consistent playmakers.

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote=Buster;658152]That's just idiotic. Sanchez had little if no effect on the Jets' success this season, they're starting 4 first-round picks on the O-line, had the #1 defense in the NFL and one of the best running games also.

All Sanchez had to do was hand off the ball without dropping it.[/quote]

early on in the season, yes. but as the season went on, sanchez got better and better. sanchez also made several GREAT plays against the colts sunday and really impressed me. he's nowhere near being an elite QB yet, but he has all the makings of becoming one. I fully expect him to be one of the top 3 QBs in the league within 3-5 years. He certainly looked better than any of the other QBs in last years draft and this upcoming one. Not really relevant to the Redskins though.

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

Sanchez really played pretty damn well yesterday. He didn't look like a rookie. For a guy that's only played one year of college and pro he's well on his way....granted the coaches don't mess with him and change offenses every year.

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote=Kalisto2010;658149]Really,[B] your[/B] going to play the grammar card?



While your at it, you'll probably want to correct your own errors first before hastily correcting mine. You can start with this sentence. I can play grammar nazi too.[/quote]


Sorry, just being a smarta$$ here; doing nothing more than pointing out irony.

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote=dgack;657232]First of all, it's [B]Shaun[/B] Hill. Secondly, I haven't heard a single person on this site who realistically thinks that Campbell is the future of the franchise or a Manning-esque player who is going to lead the team to greatness. How many times does it need to be said? The guy is serviceable and games *and yes, even championships* can be won with a guy like that in there [B]if you get your priorities straight[/B] in all the other areas.

I love when guys come out of the woodwork to create these straw man JC boosters who don't exist. Most of us who aren't calling for the guy's head on a pike merely think he's tough, mobile, has good character, and is accurate [B]enough[/B] to get the job done playing Redskins football. That is, if we get back to what that means and get a decent O-Line and running game going again.

But hey, don't let that get in the way of an opportunity to drop an advance "told you so" in here.[/quote]

Shawn Hill blows and so does Alex Smith. I'll take JC over those guys any day of the week.

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote=skinsfan69;658199]Sanchez really played pretty damn well yesterday. He didn't look like a rookie. For a guy that's only played one year of college and pro he's well on his way....granted the coaches don't mess with him and change offenses every year.[/quote]Sanchez was really efficient throughout the playoffs. I think the biggest change was that he became soooo marginalized in the offense at the end of the season that by the time the playoffs came around, he wasn't even a factor in the opponents gameplan. And Schottenheimer only went with a few passing plays where Sanchez was able to deliver the ball with timing and accuracy. He could have had some really head-turning playoff numbers if Braylon would have helped him out more than just once.

Of course, the credit to schotty comes with an asterix: there's no reason the Jets couldn't have been this sort of offensive team the entire year. After the fast start, they let Sanchez out there on his own and he cost them a bunch of games and developed some really awful habits that he still struggled with in the postseason. Even the bomb to Edwards yesterday for the 80 yard TD was thrown falling away from pressure, not looking and off his back foot. I mean, the throw was perfect, but he's not going to be able to get away with that the rest of his career.

Still, Jets fans have to be encouraged. It was Ryan's defense that let them down yesterday.

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote=GTripp0012;658204]Sanchez was really efficient throughout the playoffs. I think the biggest change was that he became soooo marginalized in the offense at the end of the season that by the time the playoffs came around, he wasn't even a factor in the opponents gameplan. And Schottenheimer only went with a few passing plays where Sanchez was able to deliver the ball with timing and accuracy. He could have had some really head-turning playoff numbers if Braylon would have helped him out more than just once.

Of course, the credit to schotty comes with an asterix: there's no reason the Jets couldn't have been this sort of offensive team the entire year. After the fast start, they let Sanchez out there on his own and he cost them a bunch of games and developed some really awful habits that he still struggled with in the postseason.[B] Even the bomb to Edwards yesterday for the 80 yard TD was thrown falling away from pressure, not looking and off his back foot.[/B] I mean, the throw was perfect, but he's not going to be able to get away with that the rest of his career.

Still, Jets fans have to be encouraged. It was Ryan's defense that let them down yesterday.[/quote]

He's a rookie who only played one year of college. He was going to make mistakes and the Jets coaches knew that. But the long TD to Edwards was sweet. He had Dwight Freeney bearing down on him. Sometimes guys don't have time to set their feet and throw. That was all Sanzhez there....real nice play.

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote=skinsfan69;658212]He's a rookie who only played one year of college. He was going to make mistakes and the Jets coaches knew that. But the long TD to Edwards was sweet. He had Dwight Freeney bearing down on him. Sometimes guys don't have time to set their feet and throw. That was all Sanzhez there....real nice play.[/quote]Definitely not suggesting he should have eaten the ball because the protection broke down. Sanchez has a problem though throwing to his left where he hardly ever steps into the throw. There, it may have just been self-preservation, but overall, it seems like a symptom of a greater issue.

Edwards has always been a fantastic route runner, but he has the hands of a left tackle.

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote=Buster;658152]That's just idiotic. Sanchez had little if no effect on the Jets' success this season, they're starting 4 first-round picks on the O-line, had the #1 defense in the NFL and one of the best running games also.

All Sanchez had to do was hand off the ball without dropping it.[/quote]

Sanchez is doing what Big Ben was asked to do his first year in the league. What Matty Ice and Flacco did last year. However, in the post-season he showed fantastic leadership skills and a passion for the game. He stood tall and gave the Jets fan base legitimate reason to look forward to him as future of their franchise. JC has been here for 3 and a half seasons as a starter (Brunell started the first 24 games of JC's career) and has never made us feel as secure as Jets fans must feel about Sanchez.

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

Too early to give Sanchez a grade or make any predictions on him in terms of his career. Guy started off nicely, then came back down to earth and looked like a rookie then had a streak good enough to get them into the playoffs. Thing is when Indy put the pedal to the metal and shut down the run, they forced Sanchez to win it with his arm and he didn't get the job done. Sanchez might develop into a franchise QB, but it is way too early to make that kind of prediction.

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote=Son Of Man;658220]Sanchez is doing what Big Ben was asked to do his first year in the league. What Matty Ice and Flacco did last year. However, in the post-season he showed fantastic leadership skills and a passion for the game. He stood tall and gave the Jets fan base legitimate reason to look forward to him as future of their franchise. JC has been here for 3 and a half seasons as a starter (Brunell started the first 24 games of JC's career) and has never made us feel as secure as Jets fans must feel about Sanchez.[/quote]

You can bring just about any QB to the terrible set up we had here in Washington, and they will all most likely fail. While not taking much away from Sanchez' potential abilities, you fail to acknowledge the good tools that the Jets put around him and the good situation they put him him. By the time Sanchez got there, the Jets had built a Pro Bowl offensive line, a great running game, and an elite defense. The Jets even went out and got him a big WR target in Edwards.

You can continue to lust after QBs that have "fantastic leadership skills and passion for the game" but that won't mean squat if they continue to hit the ground because of a terrible offensive line (among many problems that a terrible offensive line brings). Over the course of these playoffs, you saw two great QBs with a lot of this leadership and passion that you speak of, and they got hit in the mouth and were sent packing home the minute their line was not able to protect them. A line that that does that constantly during the regular season will result in a 4-12 record.

Jets fans should feel secure as Sanchez as their starter and should look forward to him as the future of their franchise. And that's because Sanchez feels secure about his offensive line, his running game, and his team's ownership commitment to him as the starting QB.

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote=Kalisto2010;658149]Really, your going to play the grammar card?[/quote]

I'm assuming the misuse of "your" was intentional. If not, /facepalm.

Pointing out that you misspelled Shaun Hill's name isn't playing the grammar card, it's correcting a dude's name.

If you're going to start off an argument by telling us that you're extremely familiar with the team that you're local to, which you believe has a very similar QB situation to our own, you *might* want to get the players' names right. Just saying.

[quote=Kalisto2010;658149]While your at it, you'll probably want to correct your own errors first before hastily correcting mine. You can start with this sentence.[/quote]

I don't need to start with that sentence. It reads as intended. If you're not capable of comprehending it, that's not really my concern.

[quote=Kalisto2010;658149]I can play grammar nazi too.[/quote]

You can play middle linebacker, for all I care. That doesn't mean you're any good at it.

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote=Ruhskins;658272]You can bring just about any QB to the terrible set up we had here in Washington, and they will all most likely fail. While not taking much away from Sanchez' potential abilities, you fail to acknowledge the good tools that the Jets put around him and the good situation they put him him. By the time Sanchez got there, the Jets had built a Pro Bowl offensive line, a great running game, and an elite defense. The Jets even went out and got him a big WR target in Edwards.

You can continue to lust after QBs that have "fantastic leadership skills and passion for the game" but that won't mean squat if they continue to hit the ground because of a terrible offensive line (among many problems that a terrible offensive line brings). Over the course of these playoffs, you saw two great QBs with a lot of this leadership and passion that you speak of, and they got hit in the mouth and were sent packing home the minute their line was not able to protect them. A line that that does that constantly during the regular season will result in a 4-12 record.

Jets fans should feel secure as Sanchez as their starter and should look forward to him as the future of their franchise. And that's because Sanchez feels secure about his offensive line, his running game, and his team's ownership commitment to him as the starting QB.[/quote]

Exactly. Sanchez was the beneficiary of the #1 defense (in several categories actually), #1 rushing attack, and was also playing behind the best O-line in football. I can't think of any better way to protect a rookie QB.

Even when they were winning, an average Sanchez stat line was something like 10-19, 143 yards, 1TD, 2INTs. I mean, his QB rating for the season was 63. That's lower than Brady Quinn. Plus he turned it over 23 times. Sure, he's shown a flash here and there. Oh, and he's a rah rah guy. So what. At this point whether or not he'll be a good NFL QB is still very much up in the air. He looks every bit like a QB who only started about a dozen college games before going pro.

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

Ruhskins and GMScud got it right. Sanchez came into a good situation for a rookie quarterback. The Jets had a great defense, a great running game and a good offensive line. Not to mention that the Jets went further and got him a big play receiver, mid year. Shanahan needs to build this team from the foundation up. This offense will continue to be dysfunctional until the the foundation, the offensive line is built. The draft will tell us where Shanahan is headed. A good majority of his picks should be to beef up the offensive line. If not, it doesn't matter who is quarterback or running back, this team is destined for failure.

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote=skinsfan69;658212]He's a rookie who only played one year of college. He was going to make mistakes and the Jets coaches knew that. [b]But the long TD to Edwards was sweet.[/b] He had Dwight Freeney bearing down on him. Sometimes guys don't have time to set their feet and throw. [b]That was all Sanzhez there[/b]....real nice play.[/quote]

Actually, that was mainly edwards there who totally left the CB holding his jock strap. All Sanchez had to do was get it close to Edwards...and he did with the lob. That TD was all about Edwards, not Sanchez. If you are saying it's all about Sanchez cause of the hit he took, well, he's an NFL qb, if he flinches before he gets hit, he will be on the unemployment line.

Sanchez had (overall) a very poor statistical season. If it wasn't for the Jets amazing defense (who saw that coming?) and the great running game, Sanchez would have been benched at some point. The Jets succeeded despite Sanchez sucking. 53.8% comp is unacceptable. In 15 games, he threw for an average of 162.9 yards (2444 overall). Only 12 tds to 20 ints (second only to cutler), and had 10 fumbles. Those are horrible numbers. He definitely performed better in the postseason, and hopefully for the jets sake, his postseason performances is what they are looking for. But it wasn't like he was spectacular. Here are his stats:
vs bengals, 12-15 80%, 182 yrds, 1-0
vs chargers, 12-23 52.2%, 100 yrds, 1-1
vs colts, 17-30 56.7%, 257 yrds, 2-1
If I had to rank his performances, vs the bengals i'd give him an INC since he wasn't needed at all with only 15 attempts. Vs chargers "F". Vs Colts, "C+/ B-" So it's not like these figures showed he was coming into his own. Not that you can, or should do this, but take away that 80 yard TD to Edwards (that was ALL edwards burning the CB) and he goes 16-29 55.2%, 177 yds, and 1-1. That would put him more around a "D+/C-".
For all of you who think that Sanchez showed good skills, and is a great QB star prospect...think again. Think of how inflated numbers can look when you have an GREAT running game, and the #1 defense in the league. We all know I dislike Campbell, but if Campbell was on the Jets, he would have throw for much better stats. Sanchez was sacked only 26 times, while Campbell was sacked 43 times.
If I had a choice between Campbell or Sanchez, i'd take Campbell. (please know I would want NEITHER of them, just making a point)

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote=Ruhskins;658272]You can bring just about any QB to the terrible set up we had here in Washington, and they will all most likely fail. While not taking much away from Sanchez' potential abilities, you fail to acknowledge the good tools that the Jets put around him and the good situation they put him him. By the time Sanchez got there, the Jets had built a Pro Bowl offensive line, a great running game, and an elite defense. The Jets even went out and got him a big WR target in Edwards.

You can continue to lust after QBs that have "fantastic leadership skills and passion for the game" but that won't mean squat if they continue to hit the ground because of a terrible offensive line (among many problems that a terrible offensive line brings). Over the course of these playoffs, you saw two great QBs with a lot of this leadership and passion that you speak of, and they got hit in the mouth and were sent packing home the minute their line was not able to protect them. A line that that does that constantly during the regular season will result in a 4-12 record.

Jets fans should feel secure as Sanchez as their starter and should look forward to him as the future of their franchise. And that's because Sanchez feels secure about his offensive line, his running game, and his team's ownership commitment to him as the starting QB.[/quote]

What has JC done to ever instill confidence in the B&G fanbase? Even when we had a solid line, running game and defense (2007 season which was his first as a full-time starter), did he exude leadership quality? Sanchez does.

BTW- Ben Rothelisberger played behind a terrible line, so did Aaron Rogers (who was drafted the same year as JC). Why is their play seen as better by virtually ever expert in the NFL and TV? Why is it Denver and Chicage wanted no parts of him in a proposed trade?

JC is a nice guy and appears to be a good person, however, he has not shown the ability to b a franchise QB after 3 1/2 seasons.....period.

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote=Son Of Man;658379][B]What has JC done to ever instill confidence in the B&G fanbase?[/B] Even when we had a solid line, running game and defense (2007 season which was his first as a full-time starter), did he exude leadership quality? Sanchez does.

BTW- Ben Rothelisberger played behind a terrible line, so did Aaron Rogers (who was drafted the same year as JC). Why is their play seen as better by virtually ever expert in the NFL and TV? Why is it Denver and Chicage wanted no parts of him in a proposed trade?

JC is a nice guy and appears to be a good person, however, he has not shown the ability to b a franchise QB after 3 1/2 seasons.....period.[/quote]Do we disqualify him being our best offensive player in consecutive years? Sure, hasn't meant a whole lot in terms of playoff appearances or victories, but we haven't had much by way of a defense since Grilliams left (except boundless consistency) and the running game has been quite spotty during the last two years. The passing offense has really been the only thing the Redskins have had during the Zorn era, and clearly, it alone was very insufficient to get the Redskins to the playoffs.

Perhaps it's accurate that quarterbacks need to win to be considered franchise QBs, and QBs on teams that don't win are expendable based on the principle that you can lose just as effectively with worse QB play. I wouldn't agree with that, but at the very least, it makes some sense.

On a 4-12 team, all players are expendable. But that doesn't mean they are all worthless.

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote=Son Of Man;658379]What has JC done to ever instill confidence in the B&G fanbase? Even when we had a solid line, running game and defense (2007 season which was his first as a full-time starter), did he exude leadership quality? Sanchez does.

BTW- Ben Rothelisberger played behind a terrible line, so did [B]Aaron Rogers (who was drafted the same year as JC)[/B]. Why is their play seen as better by virtually ever expert in the NFL and TV? [B]Why is it Denver and Chicage wanted no parts of him in a proposed trade?[/B]

JC is a nice guy and appears to be a good person, however, he has not shown the ability to b a franchise QB after 3 1/2 seasons.....period.[/quote]

Aaron also sat for 3 years behind one of the greatest QB's ever plus the biggest issue with JC he changed systems evey year or two. He had stellar WR's, RB's pretty good defense basically the same set up the Jets have without the hall of fame QB & stellar o-line.

Vinny said that Snyder didn't want to give up 2 1st rounders for anyone that eliminated us from the trade not JC alone. They could have used one of the 2 1st rounders to select a QB in Denver a probably wil.

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote=Son Of Man;658379]What has JC done to ever instill confidence in the B&G fanbase? Even when we had a solid line, running game and defense (2007 season which was his first as a full-time starter), did he exude leadership quality? Sanchez does.[/quote]

You're fixated on Sanchez and still missing the point. My arguments are not a defense of Jason Campbell, but rather a criticism of our team's inability to give any QB the necessary tools and environment to succeed. While I don't want to belittle Sanchez performance in the playoffs, you make it sound like he carried the Jets on his back, which he did not.

[quote=Son Of Man;658379]BTW- Ben Rothelisberger played behind a terrible line, so did Aaron Rogers (who was drafted the same year as JC). Why is their play seen as better by virtually ever expert in the NFL and TV? Why is it Denver and Chicage wanted no parts of him in a proposed trade?[/quote]

Big Ben had a solid line that allowed 36 sacks during his rookie season (tied for 14th in the league), the #2 rushing offense, and the #1 defense in the NFL. And he enjoyed having a top ranked rushing offense and defense for the next couple of years. Once again, it's not about Campbell, and more about what type of talent, tools this team has put around its QB.

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote=GTripp0012;658381][B]Do we disqualify him being our best offensive player in consecutive years?[/B] Sure, hasn't meant a whole lot in terms of playoff appearances or victories, but we haven't had much by way of a defense since Grilliams left (except boundless consistency) and the running game has been quite spotty during the last two years. The passing offense has really been the only thing the Redskins have had during the Zorn era, and clearly, it alone was very insufficient to get the Redskins to the playoffs.

Perhaps it's accurate that quarterbacks need to win to be considered franchise QBs, and QBs on teams that don't win are expendable based on the principle that you can lose just as effectively with worse QB play. I wouldn't agree with that, but at the very least, it makes some sense.

On a 4-12 team, all players are expendable. But that doesn't mean they are all worthless.[/quote]

When was this? What evidence do you have to support this claim?

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote=Ruhskins;658412]You're fixated on Sanchez and still missing the point. My arguments are not a defense of Jason Campbell, but rather a criticism of our team's inability to give any QB the necessary tools and environment to succeed. While I don't want to belittle Sanchez performance in the playoffs, you make it sound like he carried the Jets on his back, which he did not.



Big Ben had a solid line that allowed 36 sacks during his rookie season (tied for 14th in the league), the #2 rushing offense, and the #1 defense in the NFL. And he enjoyed having a top ranked rushing offense and defense for the next couple of years. Once again, it's not about Campbell, and more about what type of talent, tools this team has put around its QB.[/quote]

The Skins could possibly pull a Falcons 2008 draft (Take franchise QB like Ryan & LT like Sam Baker), focus on the run with a solid back (Turner), play solid defense (Falcons were not a defensive powerhouse) and enjoy some succes next year. The birds had a relatively quick turnaround. The key is having the right guy to build around...period. It's just that JC has never shown to be that guy.

I reference Sanchez alot in this thread because his name was in the title. I could also reference Ryan and Flacco. Young QB's who seem to have theri teams behind them and although not asked to "carry the team on their shoulders" yet, appear poised and capable of doing so when the time comes. Similar to Ben Rothlisberger. I hope we can find that guy.

BTW- This is in no way an advocation for taking a QB with the 4th pick overall.

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote=Son Of Man;658421]When was this? What evidence do you have to support this claim?[/quote][URL="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?page_id=518"]By approximate value[/URL], Campbell's 11 in 2008 isn't overly impressive, but it's tied with Portis' 11 in the same season, and is probably roughly as valuable (in the abstract sense, more valuable in the literal sense) as Chris Samuels' 9 or Chris Cooley's 8 or Mike Sellers' 8.

It's approximate, but if you're being honest with yourself, you'd probably say that's accurate, or close to accurate.

This year, no approx. value has been calculated yet, but it's not like any individual on our offense was even close to Campbell. It was a pretty bad year for individuals, yes, but Campbell took small strides as well.

More on approximate value from the above link:

[quote] If you don't read all that, here is the very short version:


AV is [B]not meant to be a be-all end-all metric[/B]. Football stat lines just do not come close to capturing all the contributions of a player the way they do in baseball and basketball. If one player is a 16 and another is a 14, we can't be very confident that the 16AV player actually had a better season than the 14AV player. But I am pretty confident that the collection of all players with 16AV played better, as an entire group, than the collection of all players with 14AV.


Essentially, AV is a substitute for --- and a significant improvement upon, in my opinion --- metrics like "number of seasons as a starter" or "number of times making the pro bowl" or the like. You should think of it as being essentially like those two metrics, but with interpolation in between. That is, "number of seasons as a starter" is a reasonable starting point if you're trying to measure, say, how good a particular draft class is, or what kind of player you can expect to get with the #13 pick in the draft. But obviously some starters are better than others. Starters on good teams are, as a group, better than starters on bad teams. Starting WRs who had lots of receiving yards are, as a group, better than starting WRs who did not have many receiving yards. Starters who made the pro bowl are, as a group, better than starters who didn't, and so on. And non-starters aren't worthless, so they get some points too.
[/quote]

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote=Son Of Man;658425]The Skins could possibly pull a Falcons 2008 draft (Take franchise QB like Ryan & LT like Sam Baker), focus on the run with a solid back (Turner), play solid defense (Falcons were not a defensive powerhouse) and enjoy some succes next year. The birds had a relatively quick turnaround. The key is having the right guy to build around...period. It's just that JC has never shown to be that guy.

I reference Sanchez alot in this thread because his name was in the title. I could also reference Ryan and Flacco. Young QB's who seem to have theri teams behind them and although not asked to "carry the team on their shoulders" yet, appear poised and capable of doing so when the time comes. Similar to Ben Rothlisberger. I hope we can find that guy.

BTW- This is in no way an advocation for taking a QB with the 4th pick overall.[/quote]

Ok now I get what you are saying, but I would counter that JC didn't have what Flacco, Ryan, and Big Ben had as rookies. Once again, not defending Campbell, but I hope the team has learned that you have to put some talent around your QB if you either want him to a.) live up to their potential or b.) develop into a good QB.

I don't think drafting a QB with the #4 is the answer, unless we are sure that we have given the QB position the right tools for whoever that QB is to be successful. And honestly I don't think a rookie QB can be successful when the following units have question marks:

Offensive Line: We have at best 2 starters from this past season's group. Arguably the Achilles heel of the team.

Running Game: We have an aging (in RB years) star who may or may have not polarized the locker, and a whole bunch of back ups/scrubs.

Receivers: Maybe the unit with that has more potential than the other two I mentioned, given the development of Thomas and Davis.

Defense: Good statistically, but not good enough to carry the team with the offensive deficiencies.

Starting with the offensive line, this team needs to be rebuilt in several areas. Campbell can be a stop gap until we have team that can give either a developing QB (drafted in the later rounds in 2010) or a rookie with a lot of potential (drafted in 2011...*crossing fingers that there's no lockout) an opportunity to pull a Big Ben, Flacco, Ryan or Sanchez.

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

ahh i'm so tired of this sanchez crap, he had below average numbers all year long made a few plays here and there, he had the njumber one run game, an amazing d with probably one of the most impressive seasons worth of stats for a db, honestly how sick is revis' season, the guys he shut down all year is amazing

oh yeah and sanchez has a o line chock full of first round studs i can't remember if it was on the warpath or some where else but i think they have one thrid rounder the rest are second and first round picks, ramsey could be their qb, and probably have better stats too

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote]Pointing out that you misspelled Shaun Hill's name isn't playing the grammar card, it's correcting a dude's name.[/quote]

I don't care, it's still very elementary. Especially when your own sentence structure is replete with errors.

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote=Hogroll;658201]Sorry, just being a smarta$$ here; doing nothing more than pointing out irony.[/quote]

And I'm doing the same with you.

[quote][b]Hogroll[/b]: I don't know, good [b]think[/b] Gilbert from Texas is only a Freshman...[/quote]

Good think Gilbert? just being a smarta$$ here; doing nothing more than pointing out irony since you really meant to say [b]good thing[/b]

One more for the road.

[quote=Hogroll;656989]Now, that is funny stuff![/quote]

Now, [b]that's[/b] funny stuff. Fixed.

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote=Kalisto2010;658746]I don't care, it's still very elementary. Especially when your own sentence structure is replete with errors.[/quote]

Congratulations, you win at the Internet!

Re: Reasons for drafting Sanchez
 

[quote=Kalisto2010;658748]And I'm doing the same with you.



Good think Gilbert? just being a smarta$$ here; doing nothing more than pointing out irony since you really meant to say [b]good thing[/b]

One more for the road.



Now, [b]that's[/b] funny stuff. Fixed.[/quote]

LOL...you do understand that "that's" is a contraction for "that is" right? Meaning no correction was needed.