Re: the new health care?
 

Saden stated "The topic of the selfish nature of man was brought up to highlight that without government mandate some among us would not be interested in paying for UHC. Joe doesn't need to defend himself, and he isn't. He is merely expressing his view on the nature of man."

In my case its not that I don't want to pay for health care I allready pay a good sum each month its the fact that the goverment will make it more expensive then it currently is. Once again look at the model they are basing their plan off in Mass. Prices have jumped higher then private ins. but why look at the perfect example when we have Obama telling us this will not happen. We should just take his numbers as fact because he also said the stimulas would create jobs and unemployment would stay under 8.5%.

Re: the new health care?
 

i would argue with you. but im only allowed 1 post in any political thread:) otherwise i get spanked

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=firstdown;573155]Saden stated "The topic of the selfish nature of man was brought up to highlight that without government mandate some among us would not be interested in paying for UHC. Joe doesn't need to defend himself, and he isn't. He is merely expressing his view on the nature of man."

In my case its not that I don't want to pay for health care I allready pay a good sum each month its the fact that the goverment will make it more expensive then it currently is. Once again look at the model they are basing their plan off in Mass. Prices have jumped higher then private ins. but why look at the perfect example when we have Obama telling us this will not happen. We should just take his numbers as fact because [B]he also[/B] [B]said the stimulas would create jobs and unemployment would stay under 8.5%[/B].[/quote]

[B][URL="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32314827/ns/business-eye_on_the_economy/"][COLOR=#0066cc]Analysis: Recession's job losses
may take years to recover[/COLOR][/URL][/B]


cant build Rome in a day. give the man some time

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=dmek25;573472][B][URL="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32314827/ns/business-eye_on_the_economy/"][COLOR=#0066cc]Analysis: Recession's job losses[/COLOR][/URL][/B][URL="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32314827/ns/business-eye_on_the_economy/"]
[B][COLOR=#0066cc]may take years to recover[/COLOR][/B][/URL]


cant build Rome in a day. give the man some time[/quote]

I'm using Obama's words not mine. He actually said it would not go over 8% so maybe he needs to read your link. If he was so dam smart he should have known that and not said anything at all, but maybe he is not that smart.I'm using Obama's words not mine. He actually said it would not go over 8% so maybe he needs to read your link. If he was so dam smart he should have known that and not said anything at all, but maybe he is not that smart. Now they are calling the people opposing his new Health Insurance Reform thugs. Great thing for a president to call the American people but this is coming from the party that stands for sit down and do as I say.

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=dmek25;573472][B][URL="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32314827/ns/business-eye_on_the_economy/"][COLOR=#0066cc]Analysis: Recession's job losses[/COLOR][/URL][/B][URL="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32314827/ns/business-eye_on_the_economy/"]
[B][COLOR=#0066cc]may take years to recover[/COLOR][/B][/URL]


cant build Rome in a day. give the man some time[/quote]
not sure why it posted twice.

Re: the new health care?
 

Great read here:

[url=http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204908604574334623330098540.html]Peggy Noonan: ‘You Are Terrifying Us’ - WSJ.com[/url]

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=GMScud;573527]Great read here:

[URL="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204908604574334623330098540.html"]Peggy Noonan: ‘You Are Terrifying Us’ - WSJ.com[/URL][/quote]

Thanks that was a good read. I just cannot believe how the Dems have gone so low with all the name calling of these people showing up at town hall meetings. Last time I looked they where US citizens and had the right of free speech. Maybe now free speech is only if your agree with Obama.

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=firstdown;573548]Thanks that was a good read. I just cannot believe how the Dems have gone so low with all the name calling of these people showing up at town hall meetings. Last time I looked they where US citizens and had the right of free speech. Maybe now free speech is only if your agree with Obama.[/quote]

Come on FD, you know that any regular citizen who actually stands up to Lord Obama and the Dems simply cannot be for real. It's got to be "well-dressed" stand-ins mobilized by the RNC. :doh:

That's why the Dems have instructed union heads to descend on these "fake" town hall meetings to straighten people out. Better not preach any "mis-information" on health care or you'll get flagged by the White House.

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=GMScud;573553]Come on FD, you know that any regular citizen who actually stands up to Lord Obama and the Dems simply cannot be for real. It's got to be "well-dressed" stand-ins mobilized by the RNC. :doh:

That's why the Dems have instructed union heads to descend on these "fake" town hall meetings to straighten people out. Better not preach any "mis-information" on health care or you'll get flagged by the White House.[/quote]

It's not called health care reform any more its now called Health Insurance Reform. Now thats change.

Re: the new health care?
 

I never could have imagined that "right wing extremist" were capable of making me smile. For now this is the closest thing we have to political balance until the next set of elections in 2010. I mean I love Obama and a lot of the things he's doing but a democratic president with a democratic majority in the house and the senate scares the daylight out of me. And for the record the opposite doesn't make me sleep well at night either.

Keep up the protest crazy people :D

In the meantime Obama would probably do well to learn from his predecessor as I think a main reason people really started to turn on Bush was because he just started doing his own thing and as a result tuned out when it came to public opinion.

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;573995]I never could have imagined that "right wing extremist" were capable of making me smile. For now this is the closest thing we have to political balance until the next set of elections in 2010. I mean I love Obama and a lot of the things he's doing but a democratic president with a democratic majority in the house and the senate scares the daylight out of me. And for the record the opposite doesn't make me sleep well at night either.

Keep up the protest crazy people :D

In the meantime Obama would probably do well to learn from his predecessor as I think a main reason people really started to turn on Bush was because he just started doing his own thing and as a result tuned out when it came to public opinion.[/quote]
How come when people protest Rep. they don't get called all these names but when the shoe is on the other foot the left calls them name after name. We even had Nancy P. speaker of the house state that the protester where using a swas stickers and calling them thugs. We saw the same with the Tea Party stuff. Funny how Obama talks about these people but Bush just aways said they have the right to protest.

Re: the new health care?
 

I was wondering if any of you people on the left sent any of this information posted here to the Obama snitch line. This sounds like something that an high school principle might do to crack down on kids breaking the rules.

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=firstdown;574190]I was wondering if any of you people on the left sent any of this information posted here to the Obama snitch line. This sounds like something that an high school principle might do to crack down on kids breaking the rules.[/quote]I ratted myself out with some of the info and links I posted here. I'm sure an IRS audit or some other Chicago-style thuggery is coming my way. Oh well, I'll just move to TX when it seceeds from the union.
I also wrote Glenn Nye and let him know I'd do everything I could to make sure he wouldn't be returning to DC in 2010 if he votes for this.

Re: the new health care?
 

I was wondering about this, where are all the good liberal protectors of free speech and individual privacy (ACLU, etc.) that fought so hard against the "evil" Bush Administration's Patriot Act? I guess it's OK to fight for the rights of terrorists and those who would harm the U.S., but any conservative American citizens who have broken no laws and have legitimate disagreements with the current Administration, well the ACLU certainly won't stand up for them. They won't get in the way of Premier Obama and the Politburo shaping the country into a Worker's Paradise, good news for the anti-American Communist Lawyers Union.

From John Cornyn's letter to the President:[INDENT][I]“I am not aware of any precedent for a president asking American citizens to report their fellow citizens to the White house for pure political speech that is deemed ‘fishy’ or otherwise inimical to the White House’s political interests,”[/I] the Texas senator wrote in a letter to Obama.
[/INDENT][INDENT][I]“By requesting that citizens send ‘fishy’ e-mails to the White House, it is inevitable that the names, e-mail addresses, IP addresses, and private speech of U.S. citizens will be reported … You should not be surprised that these actions taken by your White House staff raise the specter of a data collection system.”[/I]

[/INDENT]

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;574279]I was wondering about this, where are all the good liberal protectors of free speech and individual privacy (ACLU, etc.) that fought so hard against the "evil" Bush Administration's Patriot Act? I guess it's OK to fight for the rights of terrorists and those who would harm the U.S., but any conservative American citizens who have broken no laws and have legitimate disagreements with the current Administration, well the ACLU certainly won't stand up for them. They won't get in the way of Premier Obama and the Politburo shaping the country into a Worker's Paradise, good news for the anti-American Communist Lawyers Union.

From John Cornyn's letter to the President:[INDENT][I]“I am not aware of any precedent for a president asking American citizens to report their fellow citizens to the White house for pure political speech that is deemed ‘fishy’ or otherwise inimical to the White House’s political interests,”[/I] the Texas senator wrote in a letter to Obama.
[/INDENT][INDENT][I]“By requesting that citizens send ‘fishy’ e-mails to the White House, it is inevitable that the names, e-mail addresses, IP addresses, and private speech of U.S. citizens will be reported … You should not be surprised that these actions taken by your White House staff raise the specter of a data collection system.”[/I]

[/INDENT][/quote]

Not to change subject but where is the up roar from the left on Afganistan and the setting of time lines, goals and other things they demanded of Bush in Iraq. With the troop surge and the deaths rising we hear nothing.

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=firstdown;574354]Not to change subject but where is the up roar from the left on Afganistan and the setting of time lines, goals and other things they demanded of Bush in Iraq. With the troop surge and the deaths rising we hear nothing.[/quote]

Actually I think many on the left are upset with Obama about this, but they probably don't want to take shots at him when he's trying to destroy the health insurance industry. To them, government health care might even be more important than the war right now.

Bill Maher often talks about this and he hasn't been kind to Obama with the war issue.

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;574478]Actually I think many on the left are upset with Obama about this, but they probably don't want to take shots at him when he's trying to destroy the health insurance industry. To them, government health care might even be more important than the war right now.

Bill Maher often talks about this and he hasn't been kind to Obama with the war issue.[/quote]

If when you say the left your talking about congress I would have to disagree. I think they look at this as a way to make a hugh power grab and would love the chance to control more of peoples lives. This would be the biggest power grab of all.

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=firstdown;574724]If when you say the left your talking about congress I would have to disagree. I think they look at this as a way to make a hugh power grab and would love the chance to control more of peoples lives. This would be the biggest power grab of all.[/quote]

No, no. When I say the "left" I'm not talking about Congress -- I'm talking about the anti-war leftists, leftists in the blogosphere, that sort of thing. Believe me, they aren't happy at all with Obama because they thought he was going to high-tail it out of Iraq and Afganistan. You probably won't here much criticism from them right now because the left also wants a government takeover of the health care system.

Obama is taking enough shots as it is and the left won't pile on with the war issue -- I think they're willing to move Iraq and Afganistan to the back burner for now because making every American a servant of the state for their medical care is just as important to them.

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;574762]No, no. When I say the "left" I'm not talking about Congress -- I'm talking about the anti-war leftists, leftists in the blogosphere, that sort of thing. Believe me, they aren't happy at all with Obama because they thought he was going to high-tail it out of Iraq and Afganistan. You probably won't here much criticism from them right now because the left also wants a government takeover of the health care system.

Obama is taking enough shots as it is and the left won't pile on with the war issue --[B] I think they're willing to move Iraq and Afganistan to the back burner for now [/B]because making every American a servant of the state for their medical care is just as important to them.[/quote]

And isn't it amazing that the media allows that to happen.

This is not a comment about how liberal the media is or isn't, just a vent cuz I dislike the media so d*** much.

Re: the new health care?
 

Obama makes my point about how goverment screws things up. He is trying to sell the people on goverment run health care by pointing out how other goverment programs don't run very well. Wow, great way to make my point.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqUmuZnmf7A]YouTube - OBAMA gaffe: 'UPS and FedEx are doing just fine. It's the Post Office having problems"[/ame]

Re: the new health care?
 

its like any thing else. i would be willing to bet 6 months from now no one is talking about health care. its kind of like at the start of the election the main focus was Iraq. by the time election night rolled around, it was the economy

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=dmek25;574809]its like any thing else. i would be willing to bet 6 months from now no one is talking about health care. its kind of like at the start of the election the main focus was Iraq. by the time election night rolled around, it was the economy[/quote]

Iraq was still pretty big come election day. So are you saying that in 6 months health Insurance reform (remember Obama changed the name) will have either failed or succeeded and everyone just moves on. My hope is that the plan fails but we end up with some good reform to the current system.

Re: the new health care?
 

i kind of think that's the goal. if his plan fails, at least the right peoples eyes are focusing on the issue. finding a way to manage costs. isn't that what its really all about?

Re: the new health care?
 

Beware, imbeciles are afoot:

[yt]AYUmCj4yud4[/yt]

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;574279]I was wondering about this, where are all the good liberal protectors of free speech and individual privacy (ACLU, etc.) that fought so hard against the "evil" Bush Administration's Patriot Act? I guess it's OK to fight for the rights of terrorists and those who would harm the U.S., but any conservative American citizens who have broken no laws and have legitimate disagreements with the current Administration, well the ACLU certainly won't stand up for them. They won't get in the way of Premier Obama and the Politburo shaping the country into a Worker's Paradise, good news for the anti-American Communist Lawyers Union.

From John Cornyn's letter to the President:[INDENT][I]“I am not aware of any precedent for a president asking American citizens to report their fellow citizens to the White house for pure political speech that is deemed ‘fishy’ or otherwise inimical to the White House’s political interests,”[/I] the Texas senator wrote in a letter to Obama.
[/INDENT][INDENT][I]“By requesting that citizens send ‘fishy’ e-mails to the White House, it is inevitable that the names, e-mail addresses, IP addresses, and private speech of U.S. citizens will be reported … You should not be surprised that these actions taken by your White House staff raise the specter of a data collection system.”[/I]

[/INDENT][/quote]

LOOOL...seriously? This guy is a U.S. Senator? He is either a moron or thinks we're moron. With Cornyn you never know which is true. Any reasonable person knows that all the white house wanted to do is fight bogus chain emails similar to the ones we constatntly saw posted here and everywhere else. Their request was beyond innocent and I really don't know how "forward us fishy chain emails and rumors so we can debunk them" turned into "spy on your fellow citizens on our behalf." Un-f*cking-believable. :doh:

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;574762]No, no. When I say the "left" I'm not talking about Congress -- I'm talking about the anti-war leftists, leftists in the blogosphere, that sort of thing. Believe me, they aren't happy at all with Obama because they thought he was going to high-tail it out of Iraq and Afganistan. You probably won't here much criticism from them right now because the left also wants a government takeover of the health care system.

Obama is taking enough shots as it is and the left won't pile on with the war issue -- I think they're willing to move Iraq and Afganistan to the back burner for now because making every American a servant of the state for their medical care is just as important to them.[/quote]

2008 is only last year and if my memory serves me right Obama said he'll gradually discontinue the Iraq fight and continue the Afghan fight during the campaign yet he still got himself elected by the leftist. It's kinda pointless to protest a guy you voted for knowing full well what he was going to do don't you think? If I were you I would wait 16 months on Iraq than open my mouth and give it to the leftist and keep quite on Afghanistan because that fight is the fight they've mostly been willing to get behind.

If you're really intrested in something ironic I would like to point out that the same people who had no problem with The Patriot Act are now all of a sudden interested in privacy and tyranny of the government. Of course their concerns are unfounded though one sometimes wishes they were.

Re: the new health care?
 

For those bashing the ACLU's you aught to know their mandate and the fact that they'll protect your freedom of speech even if the speech is of the nature bellow. The last time I checked these protesters are still out there and free to spill their guts. With respect to people actually taking them seriously and listening to them the ACLU can't help in that regard. Perhaps there's a confusion between "the right to free speech" and "the right for your speech to be accommodated and be heard" here.


[IMG]http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/swastikas.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/cardinpics.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/dnc.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/scottsign42w3.jpg[/IMG]

Re: the new health care?
 

Three months ago the Republican Party looked dead in the water. It would have taken a miracle to revive their hopes. You ask for a miracle? I give you Rahm Emmanuel, David Axelrod, and Robert Gibbs. The Left spent the better part of five years endeavoring to engineer an American defeat in Iraq from the rear and now they seem perplexed that anyone would dare oppose them. There are no rules here. You get what you gave. Karma's an ugly bitch.

Re: the new health care?
 

If the opposition is going to be delivered by racist xenophobic anti-Semites there's nothing to worry about. Ugly people are rarely attractive to all the people. Let the games begin or should I say resume.

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=saden1;574964]If the opposition is going to be delivered by [B]racist xenophobic anti-Semites[/B] there's nothing to worry about. Ugly people are rarely attractive to all the people. Let the games begin or should I say resume.[/quote]

I think you're reading the intentions incorrectly. Although I am sure some of them are those things just because people like that do exist.

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=saden1;574935]2008 is only last year and if my memory serves me right Obama said he'll gradually discontinue the Iraq fight and continue the Afghan fight during the campaign yet he still got himself elected by the leftist. It's kinda pointless to protest a guy you voted for knowing full well what he was going to do don't you think? If I were you I would wait 16 months on Iraq than open my mouth and give it to the leftist and keep quite on Afghanistan because that fight is the fight they've mostly been willing to get behind.

[B]If you're really intrested in something ironic I would like to point out that the same people who had no problem with The Patriot Act are now all of a sudden interested in privacy and tyranny of the government.[/B] Of course their concerns are unfounded though one sometimes wishes they were.[/quote]

The irony is quite delicious

Re: the new health care?
 

The partisan divide in this country is sickening. What's worse is that many so-called intelligent people in this thread play right into it; supporting their side unconditionally in everything, blaming the other side for inflammatory tactics, harping on personal things that have nothing to do with the issues: like Clinton's blowjob from Monica and Sanford's affair.

Set that absurd bullshit aside, for the love of God. Evaluate everything objectively, no matter which side champions it. Only then are you being open enough to make decisions/cast your vote for the betterment of society. When you go along with this partisan drivel, all you do is succumb to your ego and pride. Let it go, sometimes the folks you voted for are right, sometimes they're not, who cares.

You don't have to agree with everything your party says; to do so only confirms that you're not using your brain.

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=Schneed10;575015]The partisan divide in this country is sickening. What's worse is that many so-called intelligent people in this thread play right into it; supporting their side unconditionally in everything, blaming the other side for inflammatory tactics, harping on personal things that have nothing to do with the issues: like Clinton's blowjob from Monica and Sanford's affair.

Set that absurd bullshit aside, for the love of God. Evaluate everything objectively, no matter which side champions it. Only then are you being open enough to make decisions/cast your vote for the betterment of society. When you go along with this partisan drivel, all you do is succumb to your ego and pride. Let it go, sometimes the folks you voted for are right, sometimes they're not, who cares.

You don't have to agree with everything your party says; to do so only confirms that you're not using your brain.[/quote]

Very well said.

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=Schneed10;575015]The partisan divide in this country is sickening. What's worse is that many so-called intelligent people in this thread play right into it; supporting their side unconditionally in everything, blaming the other side for inflammatory tactics, harping on personal things that have nothing to do with the issues: like Clinton's blowjob from Monica and Sanford's affair.

Set that absurd bullshit aside, for the love of God. Evaluate everything objectively, no matter which side champions it. Only then are you being open enough to make decisions/cast your vote for the betterment of society. When you go along with this partisan drivel, all you do is succumb to your ego and pride. Let it go, sometimes the folks you voted for are right, sometimes they're not, who cares.

You don't have to agree with everything your party says; to do so only confirms that you're not using your brain.[/quote]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Nice post! I agree it would be hard to find someone that all their ideas fit in one political box. [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I am a democrat but try breaking into my house and I will show you where I stand on gun control. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=Schneed10;575015]The partisan divide in this country is sickening. What's worse is that many so-called intelligent people in this thread play right into it; supporting their side unconditionally in everything, blaming the other side for inflammatory tactics, harping on personal things that have nothing to do with the issues: like Clinton's blowjob from Monica and Sanford's affair.

Set that absurd bullshit aside, for the love of God. Evaluate everything objectively, no matter which side champions it. Only then are you being open enough to make decisions/cast your vote for the betterment of society. When you go along with this partisan drivel, all you do is succumb to your ego and pride. Let it go, sometimes the folks you voted for are right, sometimes they're not, who cares.

You don't have to agree with everything your party says; to do so only confirms that you're not using your brain.[/quote]

true dat

These threads are just a reflection of political talk in general these days. Everyone has a line drawn in the sand. It's silly really because both sides are pretty much guilty of the same damn things in one way or another.

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;575020]true dat

These threads are just a reflection of political talk in general these days. Everyone has a line drawn in the sand. It's silly really because both sides are pretty much guilty of the same damn things in one way or another.[/quote]

This is what I keep saying. And it floats right up to the politics. The two-party system is just too restrictive in handling the complexities of a nation like ours. It fosters bad ideas and is largely responsible for the mess we're in now.

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=saden1;574932]Beware, imbeciles are afoot:

[yt]AYUmCj4yud4[/yt][/quote]There were definitely imbecile[B]s[/B] in that clip.

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=saden1;574964]If the opposition is going to be delivered by racist xenophobic anti-Semites there's nothing to worry about. Ugly people are rarely attractive to all the people. Let the games begin or should I say resume.[/quote]

I knew when decided to post on this again you would use those types of terms and throw out the race card.

Re: the new health care?
 

I agree with Schneed's and the other similar sentiments expressed - Clearly, the lines are drawn, the leadership on [I]both[/I] sides drew them.

If either side had someone who would propose real ideas of reform and show the courage to take on the vested interests of the trial lawyers, the insurers, pharmaceutical companies, and doctors in an attempt to cut through the Gordian Knot that is healthcare in America today, THEN, maybe, we could resolve the issues.

As it is, to me, it looks our only options when it comes to actual health care reform are a bad plan or no plan.

Great.

Re: the new health care?
 

[quote=saden1;574933]LOOOL...seriously? This guy is a U.S. Senator? He is either a moron or thinks we're moron. With Cornyn you never know which is true. Any reasonable person knows that all the white house wanted to do is fight bogus chain emails similar to the ones we constatntly saw posted here and everywhere else. Their request was beyond innocent and I really don't know how "forward us fishy chain emails and rumors so we can debunk them" turned into "spy on your fellow citizens on our behalf." Un-f*cking-believable. :doh:[/quote]Truly saden-esque response. I don't remember any "bogus chain E-mails" posted here, maybe I missed something. The Patriot Act was designed to provide surveillance on terrorist suspects, the left went nuts claiming all sorts of "innocent civilians" were prosecuted under the Patriot Act. But yet I don't recall any evidence of any prosecution not terror related.

Nothing in Cornyn's letter is false.