Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;557936]Well, we also don't have any touchdown scorers on the offense that would make you think, why are their numbers suffering? Cooley had a 1 TD year last year, so if he doesn't rebound, I might get worried. But Moss was never a big TD guy, neither was ARE. The fact that the big scorer on this team is the RB explains why Campbell probably shouldn't ever be graded by his TD totals.

This is a different point if his INT rate rises to meet his TD rate. At a 1:1 TD/INT rate, Campbell is ineffective. But at 5:2 or 3:1, he's a very effective, borderline pro-bowler. That's what we should look for this year.

The pro bowl voters do tend to get caught up in the big TD numbers, which is why I think if the team can replace those 35+ TD seasons with wins, Campbell will get his dues.[/quote]

Very good points.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;557937]Brees?[/quote]

Exactly. Brees and Campbell have had very similar early careers. Young QB who were regarded as developmental prospects with potentially high ceilings coming out of school. Early struggles with inconsistency and decision making. Both had a great running back and a decent team around them but not elite playmaking receivers.. Lots of questions from their fan bases and front offices as to whether or not they were the guy. Very public pursuits of other QB to replace them. Both made a statement, 'This is my team and I am going to lead them as such.' Brees had a huge breakout season with 27 TD the following season.

I am not comparing Campbell to Brees in saying that he's going to drop 27 TD like Brees did, but pointing out the short sightedness of giving up on young QB who have shown some ability to play at this level with some success.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

I think you could make an argument right now that the two best QBs in football (or two of the three best if you aren't worried about Peyton's age) are Brees and Rivers. So, as crazy as the decision to draft Rivers was, given the lack of help Brees had over the first three years of his career (but he had a pro bowl RB!), I actually agree with their decision to let him walk.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;557947]I think you could make an argument right now that the two best QBs in football (or two of the three best if you aren't worried about Peyton's age) are Brees and Rivers. So, as crazy as the decision to draft Rivers was, given the lack of help Brees had over the first three years of his career (but he had a pro bowl RB!), I actually agree with their decision to let him walk.[/quote]

Agreed, that was a best of both worlds scenario. They got a franchise QB to replace their franchise QB.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=Monksdown;557919]It's not being completely dismissive. And it is a variable in a QB's development. [B] Just not alone a very good excuse for not leaping forward.[/B] Your final analysis is accurate though...should he not perform, goodbye.[/quote]

I guess this is the year we find out. Of course if he does well, the credit will be given to the receivers and/or the o-line for stepping up, which is fine. Because, of course, it's not all on the QB. :)

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;557780]At best he's a 1st round pick who is turning into .... Ben Roethlisberger.

Are you serious?? Big Ben wins games.. Thats the difference.What was the streak Pittsburgh went on? But this isnt a fair deal. Big Ben is in a power run O and its not all on him. The WCO goes as the QB goes and with JC, we wont go far.IMO[/quote]

Except that last year the Steelers had no running game and their O line was nothing to brag about yet the Steelers won it all. A lot of that was because BR knows how to manage games and make plays. At this point JC doesnt look like he can do either well. Like you said, BR wins games and good stats or bad stats dont matter, he just keeps winning games.

Like another poster mentioned, It looks like JC could become Dilfer. I hope the Skins get that lucky with him.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;557933]If Samuels doesn't get injured, Campbell's December looks very very different.

But it wasn't just the OLine. You could see it in Zorn's gameplanning. Campbell and Portis were the only guys you could trust to run any play right. Moss had no big play ability, ARE dropped off the face of the planet, Thomas and Kelly were useless, Yoder played himself off the field, even Sellers made two huge game changing mistakes in that month. Cooley fumbled a game away. And THEN the protection from not only the OL, but the usually dependable Portis was crap.

So yeah, there was a lot of heat on Zorn because it was an entire offensive breakdown. And Campbell showed a lot of poise in altering his game to pick up a lot of the offensive slack. Became a leader, if you want to use those terms. Leaders tend to arise out of adverse situations, not because things are going well.

And he played all 16 games. Which is very underrated, IMO. Because after the Cincinnati loss, there was nothing left to gain from leaving him out there behind that line. But not only did he not break down, he made some week to week improvements, and almost won the SF game singlehandedly.

So I like Campbell for that, and I like Campbell for his composure this offseason. I don't know if he will turn into a great quarterback, but I would suggest if he doesn't, we find out why he didn't, and fix it fast.[/quote]

Good stuff GTripp...

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=Paintrain;557940]Exactly. Brees and Campbell have had very similar early careers. Young QB who were regarded as developmental prospects with potentially high ceilings coming out of school. Early struggles with inconsistency and decision making. Both had a great running back and a decent team around them but not elite playmaking receivers.. Lots of questions from their fan bases and front offices as to whether or not they were the guy. Very public pursuits of other QB to replace them. Both made a statement, 'This is my team and I am going to lead them as such.' Brees had a huge breakout season with 27 TD the following season.

I am not comparing Campbell to Brees in saying that he's going to drop 27 TD like Brees did, but pointing out the short sightedness of giving up on young QB who have shown some ability to play at this level with some success.[/quote]

IMO Brees is the best QB in the game today...I really hope JC rises to his level of play.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

Here's my message to all Campbell haters...[B][U]let the guy play this year[/U][/B]. Yes, you've argued your point to death (with good and bad points) that he is not a good QB. And those of us who support him have countered these arguments to death as well. So let the guy play and hope that he does well. I would hope that you are still enough of a fan to hope that he will work out this season enough to get us to the playoffs. In this league, anything can happen, so no one should be 100% sure that he is going to fail (and if you are, then why bother following the Redskins for the next season?).

If Campbell works out, then great, you have to endure our "I told you so" and you get to enjoy your team in the playoffs. We can worry about how to keep Campbell at the end of the season.

If Campbell doesn't work out, well then you get to gloat in your "I told you so" but I guaranteed it'll be short lived, since it means that the team has had a mediocre to losing season. We can then move on from Jason Campbell, and try to draft our QB of the future.

Until this happen, I don't see the point of re-hashing this topic, at least until the season starts and we actually see him play (or the preseason).

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

Well said Ruhskins

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

Preseason doesnt mean much, if it did Colt Brennan would be starting. he made more plays than JC and he was throwing to WR's who didnt even make the team.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;557988]Here's my message to all Campbell haters...[B][U]let the guy play this year[/U][/B]. Yes, you've argued your point to death (with good and bad points) that he is not a good QB. And those of us who support him have countered these arguments to death as well. So let the guy play and hope that he does well. I would hope that you are still enough of a fan to hope that he will work out this season enough to get us to the playoffs. In this league, anything can happen, so no one should be 100% sure that he is going to fail (and if you are, then why bother following the Redskins for the next season?).

If Campbell works out, then great, you have to endure our "I told you so" and you get to enjoy your team in the playoffs. We can worry about how to keep Campbell at the end of the season.

If Campbell doesn't work out, well then you get to gloat in your "I told you so" but I guaranteed it'll be short lived, since it means that the team has had a mediocre to losing season. We can then move on from Jason Campbell, and try to draft our QB of the future.

Until this happen, I don't see the point of re-hashing this topic, at least until the season starts and we actually see him play (or the preseason).[/quote]
Best post of the spring. I am done discussing the reasons I support JC and look forward to him proving me right in the fall! Hail.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

IMO, it doesnt matter how this season goes. JC is gone. he doesnt trust the FO and will not resign with us even if we want to keep him. and if he falters he is released at seasons end.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;558007]IMO, it doesnt matter how this season goes. JC is gone. he doesnt trust the FO and will not resign with us even if we want to keep him. and if he falters he is released at seasons end.[/quote]

I'll cite the cases of Briggs vs. Chicago Bears and Ochocinco vs. Cincinnati Bengals as two examples to refute your argument.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

Tim Tebow 2010?

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;557988]Here's my message to all Campbell haters...[B][U]let the guy play this year[/U][/B]. Yes, you've argued your point to death (with good and bad points) that he is not a good QB. And those of us who support him have countered these arguments to death as well. So let the guy play and hope that he does well. I would hope that you are still enough of a fan to hope that he will work out this season enough to get us to the playoffs. In this league, anything can happen, so no one should be 100% sure that he is going to fail (and if you are, then why bother following the Redskins for the next season?).

If Campbell works out, then great, you have to endure our "I told you so" and you get to enjoy your team in the playoffs. We can worry about how to keep Campbell at the end of the season.

If Campbell doesn't work out, well then you get to gloat in your "I told you so" but I guaranteed it'll be short lived, since it means that the team has had a mediocre to losing season. We can then move on from Jason Campbell, and try to draft our QB of the future.

Until this happen, I don't see the point of re-hashing this topic, at least until the season starts and we actually see him play (or the preseason).[/quote]

Thanks for speaking my mind Ruhskins! :)

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

Since the year 2000 we have had to many starting QB's to name right name. I wonder if this may also be the reason why we have no Super Bowls or only 2 playoff apperances in that time span. Can we keep a young QB and just give him time to learn and stay in the same offense for at least 3 years before we give up on him. Maybe just maybe we can also draft some offensive lineman in next years draft that will help protect Jason. Lets give him every opportunity to fail or succeed. Because we can always look for the next starting QB and hope this is the one.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

I'll cite the cases of Briggs vs. Chicago Bears and Ochocinco vs. Cincinnati Bengals as two examples to refute your argument.

Thats your right to do so but there is a difference. Those guys are PRO BOWL PLAYERS!!!
JC is not.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;558096]I'll cite the cases of Briggs vs. Chicago Bears and Ochocinco vs. Cincinnati Bengals as two examples to refute your argument.

Thats your right to do so but there is a difference. Those guys are PRO BOWL PLAYERS!!!
JC is not.[/quote]

[quote=SC Skins Fan]Can you use the quote command when you quote someone?[/quote]

{quote=insert name here}Quotation{/quote} with [] replacing {}. There is even a button to do it for you at the bottom of the page.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

NFL.com has the leagues QB's ranked. JC is 23rd behind Flacco,Shaub and even Hill from SF. Wow

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;558133]NFL.com has the leagues QB's ranked. JC is 23rd behind Flacco,Shaub and even Hill from SF. Wow[/quote]Are you citing Michael Fabiano's QB fantasy rankings?

[url=http://www.nfl.com/fantasy/rankings/qb]2009 Player rankings: Quarterbacks[/url]

Yeah, we're screwed this year.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

I wouldnt say screwed, just hope the oline and CP can get it done. JC needs to have a breakout yr. id like to see it but at the same time im very doubtful. I just hope no matter how he goes that the FO doesnt attach his fate with Zorn. we need HC stability

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;558168][B]I wouldnt say screwed[/B], just hope the oline and CP can get it done. JC needs to have a breakout yr. id like to see it but at the same time im very doubtful. I just hope no matter how he goes that the FO doesnt attach his fate with Zorn. we need HC stability[/quote]

I think Tripp was being sarcastic there. Besides, this is fantasy football rankings, which mean nothing except for those playing FF.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

As a fantasy player, I actually was going to say that he's got a pretty solid rankings list...except that Campbell was ranked too low.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;557988]
If Campbell doesn't work out, well then you get to gloat in your "I told you so" but I guaranteed it'll be short lived, since it means that the team has had a mediocre to losing season. We can then move on from Jason Campbell, [b][i]and try to draft our QB of the future.[/i][/b]

[/quote]


I agree, Ruhskins. But the highlighted kinda cracks me up when I hear this in an argument with the haters. What happened to Colt Brennan? I thought we already drafted our future! :doh:

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

Why are the ppl who like Colt Brennan considered to be haters? I think it has more to do with them getting tired of waiting on JC to show some kind of promise for the money he is making.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;558175]As a fantasy player, I actually was going to say that he's got a pretty solid rankings list...except that Campbell was ranked too low.[/quote]


For fantasy reasons, Jason's sort of a bust. I'll throw out these statistics one more time. Out of 36 games, 9 he's thrown more int's than td's. And he's only thrown more than 2 td's in a game once, two years ago against the Eagles. (you'll remember that was the year where the Eagles caught flak for releasing/not signing both of their starting cornerbacks)

So unless you're in a 2 Qb starting league, and you're at the bottom of the league, Jason should only start on bye weeks. I don't have a problem with low fantasy value. I think it's accurate. In fact, i wouldn't be surprised if he goes undrafted in many smaller fantasy leagues not based out of Washington.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=Monksdown;558302]For fantasy reasons, Jason's sort of a bust. I'll throw out these statistics one more time. Out of 36 games, 9 he's thrown more int's than td's. And he's only thrown more than 2 td's in a game once, two years ago against the Eagles. [b](you'll remember that was the year where the Eagles caught flak for releasing/not signing both of their starting cornerbacks)[/b][/quote]

No it wasn't, I think you are referring to 2002 when the team had Troy Vincent and Bobby Taylor on the roster but drafted Lito Sheppard and Sheldon Brown in the 1st and 2nd rounds (I think, I mean really I have no idea where you came up with that one). The starting corners in 2007 were Sheppard and Brown. The starting wide receivers in the 2007 Eagles game you keep referencing were Randle El and James Thrash. Thrash caught two TDs and Keenan McCardell caught the other. So if you want to a make a personel argument, well perhaps you see my point.

But can this thread just die already?

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;558308]No it wasn't, I think you are referring to 2002 when the team had Troy Vincent and Bobby Taylor on the roster but drafted Lito Sheppard and Sheldon Brown in the 1st and 2nd rounds (I think, I mean really I have no idea where you came up with that one). The starting corners in 2007 were Sheppard and Brown. The starting wide receivers in the 2007 Eagles game you keep referencing were Randle El and James Thrash. Thrash caught two TDs and Keenan McCardell caught the other. So if you want to a make a personel argument, well perhaps you see my point.

But can this thread just die already?[/quote]

Thank you sir. Besides my credibility on the Eagles roster front, it doesnt take away from the fact that fantasy-wise, he's not exactly a heavy hitter. And i'm sure most of us can attest, that any owner that has drafted Jason over the last 3 years, is a rather huge homer.

Yeah, i can let this one die. Just bored.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

Bottomline, JC has not done anything to justify being a 1st round pick. He is in the last yr of his contract and was the topic of trade rumors during the off season. Wake up JC and JC faithful,Its time to put up or shut up. I really feel if JC falters early Zorn will have a tough decision to make.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;558383]Bottomline, JC has not done anything to justify being a 1st round pick. He is in the last yr of his contract and was the topic of trade rumors during the off season. Wake up JC and JC faithful,Its time to put up or shut up. I really feel if JC falters early Zorn will have a tough decision to make.[/quote]

I think Zorn was brought in because we needed a QB oriented coach to bring Jason's level of play up to our expectations. So Zorn's eggs are in Jason's basket so to speak. Zorn's 3rd year will totally depend on Jason's play. That being said, i don't think Jason will be pulled early in the season. He'll bust out another mediocre year, and both will be sent packing.

Or they are successful, and we fire Vinny and pick up Holmgren as VP of Football operations.(wishfull thinking)

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

I think it depends on how Zorns handles the situation. If JC stumbles and Zorn sticks with him no matter how bad he does then yes, he has tied his fate to that of JC's. If JC falters and Zorn goes in a different direction then i think he would have a better chance at keepin his job. If JC does well all is fine, If ot then Zorn has to cut the cord so to speak.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;558383]Bottomline, JC has not done anything to justify being a 1st round pick. He is in the last yr of his contract and was the topic of trade rumors during the off season. [B]Wake up JC and JC faithful[/B],Its time to put up or shut up. I really feel if JC falters early Zorn will have a tough decision to make.[/quote]

I don't think any reasonable "JC faithful" is saying that he is the team's franchise QB and should be kept regardless. We're just telling "JC haters" to let the guy play this year and see what happens. If he does well and lead the team to the playoffs, then he stays (if he and team want). If he doesn't, well you get your wish and he is off the team or he is demoted to being a back up. We argue that this is the first year that JC and the team get to have the same offense and that continuity, and so he should be given a shot this year. What we dislike, is the JC haters is constantly reminding us that they hate him and that he should be gone right now. So as I stated in an earlier post, both JC faithful and haters alike should let the guy play.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;558292]Why are the ppl who like Colt Brennan considered to be haters? I think it has more to do with them getting tired of waiting on JC to show some kind of promise for the money he is making.[/quote]Because the best possible situation for Zorn and the Redskins involves Colt never having to see the field for injury or ineffectiveness or any other reason. Thus, the 'hating' part, would describe people's attitude to the entire situation. I hope 'X' plan fails so that we can give 'Y' plan a shot. That would be hating on personal preference.

Which isn't wrong, at least by logical structure. It's just hating.

It's essentally the opposite of wanting to "just win" by any means necessary. It's wanting to go a different direction first, and hope that you can still win second. Or basically what Snyder wants to do. He's the ultimate hater.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

I wouldnt call Dan a hater because he wants a return on his investment. he paid this guy 1st round money and he hasnt seen anything to justify the money he paid him.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;558425]I wouldnt call Dan a hater because he wants a return on his investment. he paid this guy 1st round money and he hasnt seen anything to justify the money he paid him.[/quote]Well, that was a bit tongue in cheek. You'll get no argument from me saying that the guy wants to win and is willing to throw as much money as need be to make it happen. It's a little disturbing that, 10 years and 4 Gibbs years into his ownership of the team, he still really doesn't have a good idea how to make it happen. But he'll keep trying, that's for sure.

Interestingly enough, if he let Vinny have the final word on all personnel matters, I think our long term prospectus would improve drastically. The fact that we can't really hold Vinny accountable for anything because the final word sometimes comes from Snyder and it sometimes comes from Cerrato and sometimes comes from Zorn, well, that's a weird power structure. And so our decision making is never consistently good, even if as other people mention, the good does seem to outweigh the bad.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

Ill say that Dan does try and he has gotten better over the years as an owner. He wants to win, and will come out of his own pocket to bring in the best players/coaches that he belives will get this team to a SB. I just hope Zorn can stick around awhile and get his players that fit what he wants to do as a team around him. I do think we should get a more aggressive DC. I have a respect for Blache but the bend but dont break D doesnt win many championships.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;558429]Ill say that Dan does try and he has gotten better over the years as an owner. He wants to win, and will come out of his own pocket to bring in the best players/coaches that he belives will get this team to a SB. [B]I just hope Zorn can stick around awhile and get his players that fit what he wants to do as a team around him.[/B] I do think we should get a more aggressive DC. I have a respect for Blache but the bend but dont break D doesnt win many championships.[/quote]

Zorn's job security will most likely depend on Jason Campbell's success. If Campbell does well, Zorn's job will be secure. If he doesn't, Zorn may be kept, but there will be a ton of speculation by the media (Mike Florio alone will have an orgy of articles regarding Snyder getting Holmgren, Cowher, Chucky, or Shanahan).

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

Yeah i saw on espn.com that one of the writers said Bill Cowher would look good in the Burgandy and Gold next yr. the media says these thigs to stir the pot a yr early and if DS went out and signed Bill on as a HC they would be saying DS is the worst owner in the NFL. the man just cant get a break.

Re: Will Jason Campbell return?
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;558292]Why are the ppl who like Colt Brennan considered to be haters? I think it has more to do with them getting tired of waiting on JC to show some kind of promise for the money he is making.[/quote]


If you are responding to my post, then allow me to elaborate. I don't consider those who like Colt Brennan to be haters. The people who do nothing BUT bash JC until they are blue in the face, the people who use irrational arguments & don't think about the fact that JC is not the only player on the field, yet any other QB will do...those are the haters. If you do that, then you can consider yourself one.

I like Colt, but he hasn't even proven to be a good QB against anyone EXCEPT 3rd & 4th stringers in Pre-season. Maybe this year, he'll improve like I hope JC does & becomes a great back-up for JC. But my problem is that in all my years as a Redskins fan, who is always the fans' favorite QB? The back-up. Always has been, seemingly always will be. I have no problem with Colt Brennan.

What I do have a problem with is the lack of patience & understanding in this fanbase & the apparent need to destroy everything we've worked for just to see if the next guy will work, because the guy in charge now isn't cutting it. :doh: It's ridiculous. I have said this numerous times & will say it numerous times, even tho I know only the people with rational thought will understand this. No team can win anything when they operate like we have. When you have a revolving door of coaches & QBs & there is no steady ground for anyone to stand on, nothing can get going. We change coaches, we change QBs...when was the last time we had the same starting QB 5 years in a row? When was the last time we had a coach that was here for more than 5 years THAT ACTUALLY WON SOMETHING? That's because we change things up so much.

You do realize that every time we have to start over again, that's another 2-5 years that we have to wait for a championship...at least. And at the rate our revolving door swings, we are NEVER going to win anything. Nor do we deserve to until we settle down & actually allow someone to develop into the starting position. The haters will never allow something like that because the haters want everything RIGHT NOW & it just doesn't work that way.

Name me the last SPORTS franchise that changed things up like we do & actually won something out of it. And how long ago was that, anyway?