Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

[quote=warriorzpath;609370]I don't know if Gruden is the right coach for the Redskins. Even though he won a superbowl with Tampa Bay, in the the last few years with the Bucs, the quarterback position there brought uncertainty to the offense and the team. This is the opposite of what the redskins need right now.

Shanaghan and Cowher are coaches that may be better suited for the redskins especially considering the team's current situation. They are different from one another in their coaching and offensive style of play, but both should bring in a better ground game and more than likely solidify the offensive line.[/quote]

I know some folks don't like Cowher (I do). But one thing about him that I think is positive by any objective measure is that he brought in very good assistant coaches and gave them real roles (Grimm, Tomlin). Having a core group of solid, experienced coaches is important, and Cowher can build that. We've been hit and miss in that department.

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

I think most skins fans would be thrilled with Cohwer. I think he is talked about less because he is the least likely to come here. Most people think he is either not going to coach at all or is waiting out the Carolina job.

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

[quote=warriorzpath;609409]I agree with everything you said here, but I don't want Gruden to continue this issue that the redskins have with the doubt at quarterback which affects the entire offense. I want a head coach to know what a great quarterback is, and then get and/or be able to develop one; not a head coach who will continue to bring uncertainty at the quarterback position. Gruden doesn't seem to have a great eye for talent especially at quarterback; I believe that Rich Gannon was a perfect fit for him, but he fell into Gruden's lap. And to me, Gruden winning the superbowl in his first year at Tampa Bay, but not coming close to that success in following years - is a testament to Gruden's lack of player personnel knowledge/skills.[/quote]

Not sure why people have this concern about Gruden and QBs. Gannon had his best years under him and so did Brad Johnson. I don't blame him much for the musical chairs at QB in Tampa at the end. The front office there simply wouldn't spend money so he ended up picking up scraps. And if it weren't for that spleen injury Simms had who knows, he could have developed.

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

[quote=Mattyk72;609434]Not sure why people have this concern about Gruden and QBs. Gannon had his best years under him and so did Brad Johnson. I don't blame him much for the musical chairs at QB in Tampa at the end. The front office there simply wouldn't spend money so he ended up picking up scraps. And if it weren't for that spleen injury Simms had who knows, he could have developed.[/quote]

I agree but the perception does exist because of the way it ended in Tampa. I think Gruden will be fine if he is given the QB he wants. And Gruden does not get enough credit for the Super Bowl in Tampa. They would never have won that super bowl without the improvements he made to thier offense.

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

[quote=Mattyk72;609434]Not sure why people have this concern about Gruden and QBs. Gannon had his best years under him and so did Brad Johnson. I don't blame him much for the musical chairs at QB in Tampa at the end. The front office there simply wouldn't spend money so he ended up picking up scraps. And if it weren't for that spleen injury Simms had who knows, he could have developed.[/quote]It's also worth being said that the highest quarterback ever drafted by Jon Gruden was Marques Tuiasosopo in 2001, at the back end of the second round. The Raiders took Sebastian Janikowski the year before...in the first round.

The other thing I like about Gruden, is that if he's impressed enough by Jason Campbell, I know he'll keep him around for another year and fix the lines first. He'll probably want his own quarterback eventually...I don't think the Redskins will ever give Jason Campbell a long term deal. But I think Gruden, more than any other coach, will play around with the pieces the team already has before tearing down the whole thing and starting over.

The plan of building through free agency wouldn't change with Jon Gruden in, but that's never, ever been the problem with the Redskins. The problem has been poor decision making in free agency, and trades that never, ever look good even from the start. If this team had not made a single trade in the Snyder era, we probably would have a whole bundle of playoff wins, instead of two.

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

Gruden had a nice O in Oakland - man, doesn't that seem ages ago! And prior to that time, Gannon's career was that of a journeyman backup. Remember him in b&g?

I don't know that he's the best out there, but it sounds like a no. of signs point to him as being one of the most likely.

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

If we draft offensive linemen with our first two draft picks in next year's draft, I guarantee that we'll have an above average offense next year. It's somewhat dependent on who the quarterback is, but as long as you don't go the Tony Banks route, they should be okay.

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

I wouldn't trust my football with a guy that spells his first name wrong.

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

[quote=JLee9718;609445]I wouldn't trust my football with a guy that spells his first name wrong.[/quote]Now I know your first name.

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

[quote=GTripp0012;609444]If we draft offensive linemen with our first two draft picks in next year's draft, I guarantee that we'll have an above average offense next year. It's somewhat dependent on who the quarterback is, but as long as you don't go the Tony Banks route, they should be okay.[/quote]

You can't guarantee that cause you don't know if those players will be any good. Just cause we take guys high doesn't mean they can play. aka Chad Rinehart. It might take a few years to rebuild the line cause we need 3-4 spots that need to be replaced.

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

[quote=Mattyk72;609434]Not sure why people have this concern about Gruden and QBs. Gannon had his best years under him and so did Brad Johnson. I don't blame him much for the musical chairs at QB in Tampa at the end. The front office there simply wouldn't spend money so he ended up picking up scraps. And if it weren't for that spleen injury Simms had who knows, he could have developed.[/quote]

It's his people/communication skills that are the concern. When

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

[quote=skinsfan69;609450]You can't guarantee that cause you don't know if those players will be any good. Just cause we take guys high doesn't mean they can play. aka Chad Rinehart. It might take a few years to rebuild the line cause we need 3-4 spots that need to be replaced.[/quote]Well, Chad Rinehart was not taken high. He was taken at a spot where you would expect 50% of the offensive lineman taken there to bust, and a historically higher percentage for lineman from non-major college conferences.

Chad's actually worked out okay in limited time as a guard, but that's all he's ever going to be.

When I say taking lineman with the first two picks, I actually mean taking real college talents that teams across the leagues universally see as good players. I'm talking about two guys who would be off the board by the end of their respective rounds whether we drafted them or not. Chad Rinehart was a different animal, though not a bad pick.

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

[quote=GTripp0012;609440]

The other thing I like about Gruden, is that if he's impressed enough by Jason Campbell, I know he'll keep him around for another year and fix the lines first. He'll probably want his own quarterback eventually...I don't think the Redskins will ever give Jason Campbell a long term deal. But I think Gruden, more than any other coach, will play around with the pieces the team already has before tearing down the whole thing and starting over.

[/quote]

i havent given much thought to a possible new skins HC, or what ails this team, after all the warpath discussions this offseason im burnt out, i just want to watch the games and hope for wins but . .

what i qouted is my thoughts too. im not a JC lover but replacing him next season isnt going to solve anything. imo i think spending resources on replacing JC will only set us back. the worst thing the skins can do this offseason (imo) would be to trade draft picks to move up to select one of the top 3-4 college qbs in next years draft. the second worst option is that we have a top 5 pick and use it on one of these top qbs.

its looking like we can sign JC to modest 2-3 year deal (with the way things are going this season), draft/build our O line and depth up, then maybe a year or two from now pull the trigger on drafting some young highly touted college qb who can come in and play behind a solid, deep O line. how nice would it be if Heyer (who we signed as an undrafted FA rookie 2 years ago) was our backup tackle instead of a starter right when the season began? samuels goes down, boom, heyer is right there to plug in at RT with the starting RT sliding over to LT.

the ravens starting LT gaither went down, they moved their 1st round pick otah over to LT and are doing OK. not great but not nearly like us who are now absolutely screwed going forward since we dont have a legit LT or RT left that can play.

im getting long winded, point is Heyer should be our backup tackle for when (and not if) one of our tackles goes down. unfortunately for this squad, heyer started the season as our starting RT = we have no depth when the big boys get hurt.

real point is, 2 years from now I want a guy like heyer on the bench not starting when the season begins. then when our starting guys get hurt, we're ready.

go skins!!

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

[quote=Mattyk72;609434]Not sure why people have this concern about Gruden and QBs. Gannon had his best years under him and so did Brad Johnson. I don't blame him much for the musical chairs at QB in Tampa at the end. The front office there simply wouldn't spend money so he ended up picking up scraps. And if it weren't for that spleen injury Simms had who knows, he could have developed.[/quote]

It's not so much when he has a quarterback that he can work with, it's when he doesn't. But also, his involvement in personnel decision-making is not known. And whether or not he is to blame for the qb carousel, he does not have proven skills in player personnel decisions.

Something that I think both you and I have agreed that the next head coach of the redskins should have to work with Snyder and Cerrato.

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

There showing M.Schottenheimer with the San Diego Chargers right now on NFL Network. God his team looks good. :(

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

Even funnier...Portis is with Denver in this game. LOL>

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

I'm not sure that gruden is the guy for the job. I don't think he is the type of coach to be able to rebuild a franchise. He doesn't seem to make smart decisions when trying to turn a team around. He seems to like his veterans and high effort guys too much...I'm not so sure he really knows what talent is necessary to win. But he is a great motivator, so when the pieces are in place, he does a good job.

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

[quote=skinster;609816]I'm not sure that gruden is the guy for the job. I don't think he is the type of coach to be able to rebuild a franchise. He doesn't seem to make smart decisions when trying to turn a team around. He seems to like his veterans and high effort guys too much...I'm not so sure he really knows what talent is necessary to win. But he is a great motivator, so when the pieces are in place, he does a good job.[/quote]

Anyone know what role he played in turning the Raiders around? I don't even recall if the Raiders were all that bad before he got there, but my assumption is that they were. Wasn't he the Raiders coach in the infamous tuck rule game against the Pats?

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

[quote=44Deezel;609821]Anyone know what role he played in turning the Raiders around? I don't even recall if the Raiders were all that bad before he got there, but my assumption is that they were. [B]Wasn't he the Raiders coach in the infamous tuck rule game against the Pats?[/quote]
[/B]
Yes he was

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

If Gruden can win with Al Davis, he can win here.

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

aww man....I don't want Gruden or Shanahan. Bring in Cowher or Holmgren, my personal hope is that Holmgren comes in and turns this mess around.

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

[quote=SBXVII;609812]There showing M.Schottenheimer with the San Diego Chargers right now on NFL Network. God his team looks good. :([/quote]

Yeah, except he gets to the red zone and gets really conservative, maybe that's why he never won a SB.

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

[quote=skinster;609816]I'm not sure that gruden is the guy for the job. I don't think he is the type of coach to be able to rebuild a franchise. He doesn't seem to make smart decisions when trying to turn a team around. He seems to like his veterans and high effort guys too much...I'm not so sure he really knows what talent is necessary to win. But he is a great motivator, so when the pieces are in place, he does a good job.[/quote]

Seems to be the story w/ Gruden. If Skins fans think Greg Williams act wore thin too quickly it's hard to see Gruden being a favorite.

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

KJ on Comcast Postgame reports that her sources say Gruden wants to coach somewhere that has a QB already in place and Holmgren/Shanahan would want VC gone if they came in. Nothing new but the Gruden point was interesting. Who knows?

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

Gruden can hope for that, but there really isn't any team out there that will be in that situation that I am aware of.

Maybe:
Schaub in Houston

Possible but Doubtful:
Romo in Dallas - Not WCO.
Rivers in San Diego - Not WCO.
Edwards in Buffalo - Not sure what they run.

Impossible:
Russel in Oakland - Would never go back there.

All the other teams that are possible coach switches either don't have a good QB(Skins, Panthers, Browns, Titans) or have a coach who is only in his first year who appears safe for a year or two(Rams, Seahawks, Buccaneers, Lions, Chiefs).

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

Let me throw in a name of an interesting prospect and with ties to the Redskins.

[url=http://www.neworleanssaints.com/Team/Coaches/People/Pete%20Carmichael%20Jr.aspx]New Orleans Saints - Pete Carmichael Jr[/url]

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;611341]Let me throw in a name of an interesting prospect and with ties to the Redskins.

[url=http://www.neworleanssaints.com/Team/Coaches/People/Pete%20Carmichael%20Jr.aspx]New Orleans Saints - Pete Carmichael Jr[/url][/quote]

One year under Marty here, and I am sure he is aware to stay as far away from Danny as possible.

I am not in favor of hiring a guy who is currently not calling the plays to be the Head Coach. If we end up with a True head coach, say Russ Grimm and bring in someone as OC, like Carmichael that will call plays it could work. Keep the defense the same or promote Gray as DC.

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

[quote=redsk1;611254]KJ on Comcast Postgame reports that her sources say Gruden wants to coach somewhere that has a QB already in place and Holmgren/Shanahan would want VC gone if they came in. Nothing new but the Gruden point was interesting. Who knows?[/quote]

Yep, I was just going to post the same thing. She sounded like her sources were pretty reliable too.

Honestly guys, I don't see Gruden, Cowher or Shanahan coming here. Definitely not the latter two.

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

dont want gruden, he is not a good fit here, and none of the rest of 'proven' coaches are coming here with snyders puppet as gm, end of story.

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

Gruden won in Oakland, id say he can win here. We definately need a HC with a sack.

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

Honestly, I think Snyder would do good finding the [I]real [/I]Jim Zorn. You know, someone beneath the radar, fairly young, but seasoned enough to actually make the next jump to head coach. Obvi Josh McDaniels would have been an ideal choice.

I'm not so caught up on the names out there because you know what, we've had all the big names come here. And the results have been pretty bad.

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;611341]Let me throw in a name of an interesting prospect and with ties to the Redskins.

[url=http://www.neworleanssaints.com/Team/Coaches/People/Pete%20Carmichael%20Jr.aspx]New Orleans Saints - Pete Carmichael Jr[/url][/quote]

I don't know if he's ready to be a HC yet, but he has impressive creditials.

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

[quote=12thMan;611374]Honestly, I think Snyder would do good finding the [I]real [/I]Jim Zorn. You know, someone beneath the radar, fairly young, but seasoned enough to actually make the next jump to head coach. Obvi Josh McDaniels would have been an ideal choice.

I'm not so caught up on the names out there because you know what, we've had all the big names come here. And the results have been pretty bad.[/quote]

Exactly. That's why I like Cameron, Harbaugh (Stanford coach) and Carmichael OC for Saints. Gibbs was an unknown when he was hired by JKC, why can't we do that again instead of bringing in retreads. Holmgren would be the only coach with experience that I would consider.

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

I think you can forget DS going under the radar. This is a A-1 first class burn job by JZ and there is no way DS takes a chance on another unproven coach. Period.

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;611382]Exactly. That's why I like Cameron, Harbaugh (Stanford coach) and Carmichael OC for Saints. Gibbs was an unknown when he was hired by JKC, why can't we do that again instead of bringing in retreads. Holmgren would be the only coach with experience that I would consider.[/quote]

I think Harbaugh might not be returning to Stanford next season. His services will probably be available.

You have to figure there will be at least three sure vacancies next year:

Tennessee
Washington
Buffalo

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;611373]Gruden won in Oakland, id say he can win here. We definately need a HC with a sack.[/quote]

Kelly Johnson said during the post-game that her best Gruden source says Gruden believes the QB carousel he was handed in his final years in Tampa ultimately led to his firing, and he's really only interested in going to a team that has an established starter. I don't know if that situation will present itself for Gruden, but that's certainly not the case here.

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

[quote=GMScud;611409]Kelly Johnson said during the post-game that her best Gruden source says Gruden believes the QB carousel he was handed in his final years in Tampa ultimately led to his firing, and [B][I]he's really only interested in going to a team that has an established starter.[/I][/B] I don't know if that situation will present itself for Gruden, but that's certainly not the case here.[/quote]

Well that counts us out of the running. ;) Some say JC is not starter quality while others say he is. Either way I would have to imagine JC is tired of the crap that goes on here as well as with the front office wanting to trade him so I presume he'll go elsewhere. Leaving us with no real starter.

but the only thing that would entice Gruden to be here would be the fact that DS spends and spends and spends. DS needs to hire a GM who will be frugal with his money. I just don't get why he does not do that. It would mean more money in his pocket. Especailly if they simply use the draft more vs. throwing buckets of money at FA.

and by the way I'm on the fense with Gruden. I think he's funny and entertaining and will set our primadana's straight, but I still think we need a better GM then what we have now. Some one who knows the system the HC is emplimenting in order to get the right players to fill the team with.

M.Schottenheimer(GM)-B.Schottenheimer(HC)
M.Schottenheimer(GM)-B.Cowher(HC)
Holmgren(GM)-Gruden(HC)
Holmgren(GM)-Shanahan(HC)

My choices in order.

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

IF DS and VC were to tell Gruden they would draft the QB he wanted then im sure he would think about it. Maybe bring in Garcia who knows the WCO to get us by until the rook was ready.

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

If they had kept Marty back in the day, this would have been a natural option by now

M.Schottenheimer(GM)-B.Schottenheimer(HC)

Re: Sources: Gruden the front runner
 

What .... no talk of " the old ball coach " ?? :)