Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=Angry;740180]I agreed with everything you said except this. Corners have to be able to play zone and man period. That is what a corner does. Either you can play corner or you can't. Hall and Rogers can play corner. The scheme needs to be adjusted because they are getting beat and it isn't their fault most of the time.[/quote]

Just to build off this I think we need to be clear here that the 3-4 change really only involves the front seven. As far as the secondary goes it's still the same. You're either in man or zone or some combo.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

I was at the game, 10 rows up from the field. The Rams outplayed and outcoached the Redskins. From field level, it was very obvious how the Rams were attacking the Skins. Where were the adjustments? They sealed off the inside linebackers and ran right at the outside linebackers with success. Even when Steven Jackson went down, they kept doing the same thing and the Skins could not stop it. I don't know what the Rams third down conversion percentage was, but it had to be high. When Bradford did pass, it was quick three step drops, in front of the cornerbacks and safeties, nullifying the linebacker blitzes. Where were the adjustments? ... Oh, I said that before. Coaching is all about adjustments. I didn't see many.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=12thMan;740176]I'm not sure how you're quantifying "worse" but I'd be interested in knowing. Of course we don't know how good the defense is going to be this year and I don't think people here are really trying to make that point. Adjustments and scheme changes are fine and expected, but no was expecting the defense to fall off the cliff to 32nd in the league, GTripp.

[B]We don't need sixteen games to see that this ain't working and Haslett appears to be in over his head big time. It's not just a personnel issue, it's a coaching issue from what I can see. [/B]Can I prove that it's a coaching issue with stats? Hell no. Seventeen of the thirty two teams run a 3-4 scheme, yet we're making it look like algebra.[/quote]

thats my biggest gripe right there. yes carter and orakpo might not be lb's but they are both damn talented as well as the rest of our d. we don't have the right guys for each position but with the talent level we have we shoudln't look this bad.

can anybody tell me anything haslett has ever really accomplished as a hc or dc other than lead the rams to a victory over the skins twice. i really don't know much about him, but after reading a couple things his success rate doesn't seem to be very good

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;740182]Green Bay got off to a rough start last year while transitioning to the 3-4 and ended up alright by the end of the year. Gotta give things time.[/quote]

I don't disagree, but what concerns me so much today is that they didn't play with any heart at all. I just felt like I witnessed a meltdown without any player shoing a sense of urgency to get things back on track. No one -- not even London Fletcher -- seemed to step up and put pressure on themselves or others to get things going (true on offense as well). How many times did we have the Rams at 3rd and long, and then they'd convert? How many 3 and outs did we have in the second half? The whole second half was just a mess. And our guys looked gassed.

On offense, we now know how important Trent Williams is to our fortunes -- Stephon Heyer was simply terrible. And our D didn't react well at all. I cannot be the only one to notice that when Bradford switched to a two-step drop and getting the ball our really fast (which he did for much of the second half), our DBs remained in soft coverage, and so they were getting 6-7 yards a pop.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

D Hall basically said Bradford owned us, and he continues to make excuse after excuse.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

If Haslet is smart,he will have L.Landry spy Vick the whole game...

Not only is he the fastest guy on defense,but he plays up in the box and used for blitzes...

You would THINK..that Haslet will use him to spy Vick the whole game and roll to whatever side Vick is on and play a Zone type of Spy...to prevent the Vick scrambles and long runs...

Which probably means he'll have Landry one-on-one with D.Jackson in man-to-man coverage..lol

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;740200]Just to build off this I think we need to be clear here that the 3-4 change really only involves the front seven. As far as the secondary goes it's still the same. You're either in man or zone or some combo.[/quote]

True, but how the secondary is designed to play when Haslett sends 5 or 6 at the qb seems to be an issue.

We've been through this before, in 06 we all questioned why Rogers was 10 yards off of every reciever & seemed to give up so many short to mid range routes. I would almost go as far to say that the defensive calls are the problem, because our blitzing isn't very effective.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=calia;740215]I don't disagree, but what concerns me so much today is that they didn't play with any heart at all. I just felt like I witnessed a meltdown without any player shoing a sense of urgency to get things back on track. No one -- not even London Fletcher -- seemed to step up and put pressure on themselves or others to get things going (true on offense as well). How many times did we have the Rams at 3rd and long, and then they'd convert? How many 3 and outs did we have in the second half? The whole second half was just a mess. And our guys looked gassed.

[B]On offense, we now know how important Trent Williams is to our fortunes -- Stephon Heyer was simply terrible. [/B]And our D didn't react well at all. I cannot be the only one to notice that when Bradford switched to a two-step drop and getting the ball our really fast (which he did for much of the second half), our DBs remained in soft coverage, and so they were getting 6-7 yards a pop.[/quote]

It wasn't just Heyer though. Brown was awful. Did they do their homework on this guy? Cause it didn't look like New Orleans was trying very hard to re sign him.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=hail_2_da_skins;740206]I was at the game, 10 rows up from the field. The Rams outplayed and outcoached the Redskins. From field level, it was very obvious how the Rams were attacking the Skins. Where were the adjustments? They sealed off the inside linebackers and ran right at the outside linebackers with success. Even when Steven Jackson went down, they kept doing the same thing and the Skins could not stop it. I don't know what the Rams third down conversion percentage was, but it had to be high. When Bradford did pass, [B]it was quick three step drops, in front of the cornerbacks and safeties, nullifying the linebacker blitzes. Where were the adjustments? [/B]... Oh, I said that before. Coaching is all about adjustments. I didn't see many.[/quote]

That's about what I was thinking. The blitzing really backfired. In Haslett's defense he probably thought that Bradford couldn't make those reads quick enough, but he did.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;740226]It wasn't just Heyer though. Brown was awful. Did they do their homework on this guy? Cause it didn't look like New Orleans was trying very hard to re sign him.[/quote]

I agree; there was blame to go around. One 3rd down conversion?! Heyer did have, if I counted correctly, 3 holding penalties which killed drives. It felt like more.

If this team can bounce back next week, it will show some character -- character that was entirely absent this week -- things could get back on track. Obviously, the offensive struggles leave the D on the field far too long. And yesterday, they looked exhausted. We're dead last in the league in just about every defensive category now, and that's a pretty dramatic fall off.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/3-4-defense/phillip-daniels-believes-the-t.html]Redskins Insider - Phillip Daniels believes the 3-4 can work[/url]

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;740177]So you think Andre Carter is a 3-4 outside backer? Nope. Yet he's one of our best pass rushers. Where has he been? Is Haynesworth a nose tackle? Nope. Is Rocky an inside backer? No. Where is Chris Wilson? Do we even have a true nose tackle? No. Are Hall and Rogers zone corners? No. So yes it's very early but there are just too many indications that this is going to be a crappy defense cause guys seem to be out of position.[/quote]

If Carter, Haynesworth and Rocky can't learn a new position, a few feet from their previous (which is an oversimplification I know), then they can GTFO. I don't want a bunch of dumbasses out there who play like retards if you dare ask them to stand up, or move inside a bit, or play 0-technique.

But I don't think they're a bunch of retards -- they probably can play those positions. Time will tell.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;740241]If Carter, Haynesworth and Rocky can't learn a new position, a few feet from their previous (which is an oversimplification I know), then they can GTFO. I don't want a bunch of dumbasses out there who play like retards if you dare ask them to stand up, or move inside a bit, or play 0-technique.

But I don't think they're a bunch of retards -- they probably can play those positions. Time will tell.[/quote]

Well Landry never truly learned to play FS, and is doing much better as a SS. And one of the reasons Carter came to Washington was because he wasn't successful as a 3-4 LB when SF changed to that scheme. I think versatility is great, but at the same time you need players that are good at their positions in certain schemes. And save for maybe Orakpo, the rest of our front seven are learning their positions.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;740238][url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/3-4-defense/phillip-daniels-believes-the-t.html]Redskins Insider - Phillip Daniels believes the 3-4 can work[/url][/quote]

Good comment from that article:

[quote]
If not for the defense, and Hall in particular, the Skins start the season 0-1 to the hated Cowpies. The defense scored more than the offense against the Pies.

So let's [say] defense won the first game and lost the second.

Yesterday, if EITHER the defense or offense stepped up, it's a winnable game. Again, 1 for 10 on 3rd down ain't gonna win many games. Three times deep in the Red Zone, and coming away with 9 points ain't gonna win many games.

Blame the defense sure, but blame the offense too. 1 for 10 on 3rd down against the Rams? Zorn could have done better.

Posted by: Alan4 | September 27, 2010 2:42 PM | Report abuse

[/quote]

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[IMG]http://images.memegenerator.net/Lame-pun-coon/ImageMacro/2799180/Purchased-new-defensive-scheme-Lost-receipt.jpg[/IMG]

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

Hall is a good cover corner
Rogers is a good man corner
Orakpo is a good rush outside linebacker
Fletcher is a good middle linebacker
Landry is a good SS
Carriker appears to be decent at end

thats 5 starting defensive players that IMO fit their positions in the 34.

of course we need a NT, which I think will be a priority this offseason as well as more linebackers.

next year we add a NT and some more pieces.

in 2 years, we should be ready to roll out our true version of the 34.

its not going to happen in 1 season, particularly the first 3 games.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;740200]Just to build off this I think we need to be clear here that the 3-4 change really only involves the front seven. As far as the secondary goes it's still the same. You're either in man or zone or some combo.[/quote]

Very true. However, it is also the scheme that dictates DB depth in different situations. I don't understand why our corners are play 7-10 yards off the ball when the blitz is on. It just doesn't make sense and it is not the corners determining how much cushion they are giving.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;740241]If Carter, Haynesworth and Rocky can't learn a new position, a few feet from their previous (which is an oversimplification I know), then they can GTFO. I don't want a bunch of dumbasses out there who play like retards if you dare ask them to stand up, or move inside a bit, or play 0-technique.

But I don't think they're a bunch of retards -- they probably can play those positions. Time will tell.[/quote]

You know it's just not that simple. If you have guys that play a 4-3 better and fit that scheme better than why change it? It's about doing what you do best. As I mentioned before, you don't see Pittsburgh changing their defense around when they hired a new coach. It has nothing to do with being dumb.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=Buster;740247][IMG]http://images.memegenerator.net/Lame-pun-coon/ImageMacro/2799180/Purchased-new-defensive-scheme-Lost-receipt.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

:lol:

Oh if only this could be an avatar. LOL.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;740251]You know it's just not that simple. If you have guys that play a 4-3 better and fit that scheme better than why change it? It's about doing what you do best. As I mentioned before, you don't see Pittsburgh changing their defense around when they hired a new coach. It has nothing to do with being dumb.[/quote]

Using that logic nobody would ever make any scheme changes. Change is difficult and it's not always going to be a perfect fit initially.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=skinsfan69;740251]As I mentioned before, you don't see Pittsburgh changing their defense around when they hired a new coach. It has nothing to do with being dumb.[/quote]
To be fair, LeBeau has been the defensive coordinator since 2004. Of course they aren't going to change a defense in 2007 that's been superior. And before LeBeau, the Steelers ran a 3-4 with Cowher. That comparsion really doesn't hold water because the situation isn't the same...

The fact that Shanahan wanted to run a 3-4 is the reason he hired Haslett in the first place. That's why the scheme has changed. The Skins have the personnel to run the 3-4 successfully. It's a matter of execution and the coaches making proper adjustments, which they have not done successfully in the 1st 3 games.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

IDK man, all we heard from the media, experts etc is that success of the 34 is dictated by having a true NT.

We dont have one, Ma'akke is not holding up so far, not that he cant later in the season since he didnt play last year and Ill give him a full season before handing out report cards.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

let's see how they do next week. not ready to fire anyone since this isn't a playoff team anyway. but i want to see some adjustments.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;740252]:lol:

Oh if only this could be an avatar. LOL.[/quote]
[IMG]http://images.memegenerator.net/Lame-pun-coon/ImageMacro/2802196/If-only-I-could-be-Warpath-avatar-LOL.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://images.memegenerator.net/Lame-pun-coon/ImageMacro/2802219/I-can-play-3-4-for-Haslett-Who-would-want-to-block-a-racoon-with-rabies.jpg[/IMG]


[IMG]http://images.memegenerator.net/Lame-pun-coon/ImageMacro/2802250/Im-meaner-than-Haynesworth-And-Ill-work-for-leftover-meatloaf.jpg[/IMG]







[IMG]http://images.memegenerator.net/Lame-pun-coon/ImageMacro/2802235/Devin-Thomas-go-catch-play-with-Donovan-Ill-return-kicks-for-the-Skins.jpg[/IMG]

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

Go catch play with Donovan??

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

It's as serious as the thread...Fire Haslett? Great idea!

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

Defense needs work but I think so does special teams -- I don't know how Danny Smith still has a job, the ST was pretty bad last year and it has been a huge liability this year with missed field goals, bad kicking etc.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

The 49ers fired their OC today, so it's not that far out. Shoot, we basically fired our OC last year and brought in Sherm Lewis mid season and kept humming.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=mooby;739603]Just getting a head start on it. No Haslett wasn't responsible for that McNabb pick, but we already knew the game was over. I know the offense has problems, but I've seen enough of the offense to know it's not anything that can't be corrected. The rushing game started to come around today before we abandoned it, and the passing game is good enough and will only get better if McNabb keeps gelling with his receivers.

The real issue at hand in this thread is our defense. I was willing to give a pass for getting gashed by the Texans offense, but letting a rookie quarterback missing a Pro Bowl running back in the backfield look like he did today is unacceptable. I don't believe the players are at fault as much as the scheme is, and the scheme sucks.

The players aren't made for it. The majority of the players on our defense were damn good at being in a 4-3, and while some players have emerged in this scheme, namely Orakpo and Landry, I just don't believe that Haslett's defense will be successful in this league. We're not even 4 games into the season and the secret is out, and everybody knows it. Our offense isn't to the point yet where we can get into shootouts and win, and the more I see of this defense the more I think our offense is going to have to keep putting up more and more points on the board if it expects to win games.

All we heard all offseason was about how the majority of our defensive players would have an easy transition to the 3-4. Well our defense has looked historically bad so far, and honestly I do believe next season we would be better off going back to a 4-3. I understand making the transition to a 3-4 from a 4-3 isn't easy, but we shouldn't be this bad this early in the season. Jim Haslett's defense is trash, and I just don't believe that if he can't make adjustments this early in the season then he won't ever be successful here in Washington. Instead of throwing away the majority of the players this offseason we should just go back to the defense they are comfortable with.

Btw congratulations St. Louis. We just gave you your first September win in 4 seasons, and your second overall win in your last 29 games.[/quote]

It's a 3-4 in practice...sadly we should be 3-0 right now...this is BS losing at home to the HT, then against STL??? Wow, give me a break. Can we just give the division to PHI???

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[IMG]http://images.memegenerator.net/Chill-Out-Lemur/ImageMacro/2808866/A-4-3-D-line-with-AC-Golston-Fat-Al-and-Orakpo-Pleaaaaase-like-that-would-ever-work.jpg[/IMG]

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;740387][IMG]http://images.memegenerator.net/Chill-Out-Lemur/ImageMacro/2808866/A-4-3-D-line-with-AC-Golston-Fat-Al-and-Orakpo-Pleaaaaase-like-that-would-ever-work.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

Can I use your sig? Full credit goes to you.:food-smil

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;740387][IMG]http://images.memegenerator.net/Chill-Out-Lemur/ImageMacro/2808866/A-4-3-D-line-with-AC-Golston-Fat-Al-and-Orakpo-Pleaaaaase-like-that-would-ever-work.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

It's more likely to work than the current forumla. Even with Albert's theatrics, he was still making plays. Now, Albert's been turned into a starving kitten, Carter has his compass going crazy(in a bad way, aka HE'S LOST), and Golston is asked to become a giant super-strong space eater.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;740391]Can I use your sig? Full credit goes to you.:food-smil[/quote]

Sweet! Go for it. :food-smil

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

Sweet... DONE!

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

Really is a shame we never got to see a grouping like that ever! It was all in place, but failed to come through.

Why was Rak ever moved to OLB in the frist place, I seem to have forgotten. Other than a lack of a Strong OLB in 4-3 last year was there a real reason that Blache thought he could do it? He struggles in coverage and it seems like somewhat of a waste of talent to see him not rushing the passer.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

While we're at it why not fire Kyle Shanahan too? I mean the offense is only ranked 18th in points per game. That ain't cutting it if you ask me.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;740428]While we're at it why not fire Kyle Shanahan too? I mean the offense is only ranked 18th in points per game. That ain't cutting it if you ask me.[/quote]

Patience, at least wait for the 34-6 score next week in Philly

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;740428]While we're at it why not fire Kyle Shanahan too? I mean the offense is only ranked 18th in points per game. That ain't cutting it if you ask me.[/quote]

And cut McNabb. LOL.

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;740430]And cut McNabb. LOL.[/quote]

Sure why not, cut everybody

Re: The Official Defense Has Major Issues/Fire Jim Haslett Thread
 

The defense looked a lot worse through the first three weeks under Marty, and then it pulled together. Certainly, this Sunday is going to be very, very ugly, but we have to give it time.