Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;801915]Kind of like Brian Orakpo huh?[/quote]


Thing that worries me though Quake is Kerrigan is a Big Ten hog from Indiana. Those hogs tend to be hogs. Orakpo is a warm weather guy, which means a whole different way of playing. Not saying kerrigan can't make the adjustment like Brian, just saying it might no go as smoothly or as quick. Big Ten is power football, not known for speed. Kerrigan was a great pick, but if we wanted a 3-4 OLB, we should have drafted one and picked Kerrigan to shore up the DL.

Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

Kerrigan would struggle more as a 3-4 DE than he will as a 3-4 OLB. He's the perfect size for OLB.

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[quote=Chico23231;802289]and Matt Leinart. I think those 3 would be the best combo going into the new season. I kinda wouldnt like to see Grossman with the team, he would be takin playing time away from the development of a possible starter.[/quote]


I rather get Palmer. He has a cannon arm, desires new digs, and never had to be pulled because of some mental/ attitude issues. Besides, if he was so great Tenn wouldn't be willing to just plain release him. Cincy doesn't want to get rid of Palmer, he just wants out of a losing organization on the downward spiral.

Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

Don't ever say Matt leinart and redskins in the same sentence again

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[url=http://redskins.espn980.com/bloggers/chris-russell/item/62-mr-young-please-dont-come-to-washington]"Mr. Young -- Please don't come to Washington"[/url]
[QUOTE]Shanahan talked after the draft -- about consulting and trusting Urban Meyer from Florida and Bo Pelini from Nebraska -- for their respective opinions on the recently drafted Maurice Hurt and Niles Paul.[/QUOTE]

Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;802290]Thing that worries me though Quake is Kerrigan is a Big Ten hog from Indiana. Those hogs tend to be hogs. Orakpo is a warm weather guy, which means a whole different way of playing. Not saying kerrigan can't make the adjustment like Brian, just saying it might no go as smoothly or as quick. Big Ten is power football, not known for speed. Kerrigan was a great pick, but if we wanted a 3-4 OLB, we should have drafted one and picked Kerrigan to shore up the DL.[/quote]

Kerrigan's measurables are quite similar to Rak's. In fact, he had a better 20 yard shuttle and 3-cone drill than Rak.

[url=http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=70476&draftyear=2011&genpos=DE]Ryan Kerrigan*|*Purdue,*DE*:*2011 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile[/url]
[url=http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=33734&draftyear=2009&genpos=de]Brian Orakpo*|*Texas,*DE*:*2009 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile[/url]

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[quote=SmootSmack;802288]Maybe not an endorsement, but certainly seems like Fisher believes Young can be successful

[url=http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/05/10/fisher-vince-young-can-win-in-the-nfl/]NFL.com Blogs » Blog Archive Fisher: Vince Young can win in the NFL «[/url][/quote]

That seals it. Welcome to Washington Mr. Young.

Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;802310]Kerrigan's measurables are quite similar to Rak's. In fact, he had a better 20 yard shuttle and 3-cone drill than Rak.

[URL="http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=70476&draftyear=2011&genpos=DE"]Ryan Kerrigan*|*Purdue,*DE*:*2011 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile[/URL]
[URL="http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=33734&draftyear=2009&genpos=de"]Brian Orakpo*|*Texas,*DE*:*2009 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile[/URL][/quote]

I was more concerned about Rak making the switch than I am Kerrigan. RK is going to be fine.

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[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/11/elway-it-is-hard-to-tell-if-orton-and-tebow-will-be-on-week-one-roster/]Elway: “It is hard to tell” if Orton and Tebow will be on Week One roster | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

For what it's worth, Peter King thinks Rex will start the season:

[url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/05/08/mmqb/3.html]Tennessee Titans like what they have in rookie quarterback Jake Locker - Peter King - SI.com[/url]

[QUOTE]8. I think Rex Grossman will take the first snap of the 2011 season for the Redskins.
[/QUOTE]

HOWEVER, rumors from Cincy include Rex looking sexy in stripes:
[url=http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110507/SPT02/305070038/Will-Bengals-sign-veteran-QB-?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Bengals]Will Bengals sign veteran QB? | Cincinnati.com | cincinnati.com[/url]

[QUOTE]Among the names that are real possibilities are Rex Grossman, Jim Sorgi and Charlie Frye.

Grossman, who is entering his ninth season, is 20-14 as a starter and led Chicago to Super Bowl XLI. More importantly, he’s also been a backup and would know the role.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]But since we’re in the midst of a lockout and the draft is over, we might as well start looking ahead. Also, we’re talking a free agent signing and not a trade, which means Kevin Kolb, Vince Young and Donovan McNabb will not be factored in here. Plus, we’re also trying to be realistic.[/QUOTE]

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Rexy the Cat!

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[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/11/bernard-hopkins-rips-mcnabb-says-hes-not-black-but-got-a-suntan/]Bernard Hopkins rips McNabb, says he’s not black but “got a suntan” | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

1:44 mark

[url=http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d81fca48e/Vikings-good-fit-for-Young]NFL Videos: Vikings good fit for Young?[/url]

And

[url=http://chat.nfl.com/front/index/1526]NFL Live Chat[/url]

cameron, WV
1:53 PM ET
Ive been hearing rumors of vince young landing in DC do you think it will be a good fit for vince?

Pat Kirwan, NFL.com
Cameron, Young is the most intriguing potential free-agent quarterback out there. A year or two with Mike Shanahan would really help. The more I think about where I'd like to see Vince land for Vince's sake, the more I think about Washington.

It really is kind of interesting how suddenly there's so much talk about this

Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;802406][url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/11/bernard-hopkins-rips-mcnabb-says-hes-not-black-but-got-a-suntan/]Bernard Hopkins rips McNabb, says he’s not black but “got a suntan” | ProFootballTalk[/url][/quote]

Questions about where he should rank as an NFL quarterback.

[url=http://b.bm324.com/public/?q=ulink&fn=Link&ssid=10573&id=jl48c5x8mubdhnons4k8efju3rqul&id2=6xwbwguqq0dnxwna63n636o605kj0&subscriber_id=azdaegihsdgxmylnyxendogzfedjbkh&delivery_id=adfcrmoefclcmdrtntfutynhrgibbcm&tid=3.KU0.BqJbjw.CMEG.L44Z..TSCc.b..l.ApvX.a.TcsT3g.TcsT3g.YTrsdw]NFL Expert Says Redskins Would Be Wise to Dump McNabb[/url]

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[quote=SmootSmack;802445]1:44 mark

[url=http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d81fca48e/Vikings-good-fit-for-Young]NFL Videos: Vikings good fit for Young?[/url]

And

[url=http://chat.nfl.com/front/index/1526]NFL Live Chat[/url]

cameron, WV
1:53 PM ET
Ive been hearing rumors of vince young landing in DC do you think it will be a good fit for vince?

Pat Kirwan, NFL.com
Cameron, Young is the most intriguing potential free-agent quarterback out there. A year or two with Mike Shanahan would really help. The more I think about where I'd like to see Vince land for Vince's sake, the more I think about Washington.

It really is kind of interesting how suddenly there's so much talk about this[/quote]

Lockout be-damned rumors continue to swirl, they're like a River with no end.

[url=http://b.bm324.com/public/?q=ulink&fn=Link&ssid=10573&id=jl48c5x8mubdhnons4k8efju3rqul&id2=hpun5vd89wafosna6z0kl2p1c9r2o&subscriber_id=azdaegihsdgxmylnyxendogzfedjbkh&delivery_id=adfcrmoefclcmdrtntfutynhrgibbcm&tid=3.KU0.BqJbjw.CMEG.L44Z..TSCc.b..l.ApvX.a.TcsT3g.TcsT3g.YTrsdw]Washington Redskins: Kyle Orton, Vince Young Rumors Spread in Spite of Lockout | Bleacher Report[/url]

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[quote=Longtimefan;802450]Lockout be-damned rumors continue to swirl, they're like a River with no end.

[url=http://b.bm324.com/public/?q=ulink&fn=Link&ssid=10573&id=jl48c5x8mubdhnons4k8efju3rqul&id2=hpun5vd89wafosna6z0kl2p1c9r2o&subscriber_id=azdaegihsdgxmylnyxendogzfedjbkh&delivery_id=adfcrmoefclcmdrtntfutynhrgibbcm&tid=3.KU0.BqJbjw.CMEG.L44Z..TSCc.b..l.ApvX.a.TcsT3g.TcsT3g.YTrsdw]Washington Redskins: Kyle Orton, Vince Young Rumors Spread in Spite of Lockout | Bleacher Report[/url][/quote]

Love these two paragraphs from your link:

[quote]
Honestly I think the people reporting these rumors still think this franchise is being run like it has been for the past decade and a half—signing big named stars to large contracts and trading away draft picks for over the hill players.

Basically it breaks down to reporters throwing crap at the wall and seeing what sticks. After all, in a lock-out NFL off-season, that's all they can really do since teams can't talk to free agents and can't talk to other teams about trades.[/quote]

question though:
can't the teams talk about trades, I thought they could, they just can't finalize any deals right?

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Yea, Orton would fit in real well.

[img]http://sportscracklepop.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/kyle-orton.bmp[/img]

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[quote=SmootSmack;802445]1:44 mark

[URL="http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d81fca48e/Vikings-good-fit-for-Young"]NFL Videos: Vikings good fit for Young?[/URL]

And

[URL="http://chat.nfl.com/front/index/1526"]NFL Live Chat[/URL]

cameron, WV
1:53 PM ET
Ive been hearing rumors of vince young landing in DC do you think it will be a good fit for vince?

Pat Kirwan, NFL.com
Cameron, Young is the most intriguing potential free-agent quarterback out there. A year or two with Mike Shanahan would really help. The more I think about where I'd like to see Vince land for Vince's sake, the more I think about Washington.

It really is kind of interesting how suddenly there's so much talk about this[/quote]

I heard PK talking about Young to D.C. yesterday. He thinks it would be a good fit as long as VY is serious about reinventing himself. He also said it would likely be a short term deal that would make sense for the team and (hopefully) serve as motivation to VY to get back on track.

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[quote=Alvin Walton;802453]Yea, Orton would fit in real well.

[img]http://sportscracklepop.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/kyle-orton.bmp[/img][/quote]

Dude we already got the real deal
[IMG]http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu282/ClickClack7/rex-grossman-drunk-pictures1.jpg[/IMG]
[url]http://www.littyhoops.com/images/rex_grossman.jpg[/url]

Besides Matt Leinart already knows the system
[IMG]http://coedmagazine.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/22/matt-leinart-drunk.jpg[/IMG]

And Young already knows part of the Shanahan offense after training under Heimridingergerger
[IMG]http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSlaq2k0UeMrr7ycTr9isRZt1xB2Ytnnr4f9eOJiRRoyKBpF_UibQ[/IMG]

Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;802452]Love these two paragraphs from your link:



question though:
can't the teams talk about trades, I thought they could, they just can't finalize any deals right?[/quote]

With all the many different forms of communication available today, I've never understood the rule that players, teams and coaches cannot talk. There's absolutely no way to enforce such a rule.

I think what the writer is saying is: Despite a lockout that prohibits communication, the various rumors leave the appearance that the rule is not being followed to the letter.

Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

[quote=Longtimefan;802467]With all the many different forms of communication available today, I've never understood the rule that players, teams and coaches cannot talk. There's absolutely no way to enforce such a rule.

I think what the writer is saying is: Despite a lockout that prohibits communication, the various rumors leave the appearance that the rule is not being followed to the letter.[/quote]

What Adam Schefter has been hearing throughout this lockout is that if you even try to make under the table deals or gentlemens agreements the league will come after you hard. You'll be treated like the Patriots during Spygate.

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[quote=Dirtbag59;802468]What Adam Schefter has been hearing throughout this lockout is that if you even try to make under the table deals or gentlemens agreements the league will come after you hard. You'll be treated like the Patriots during Spygate.[/quote]

In defense of the teams around the league these rumors would appear to be mostly media driven. It's that time of year and there has to be something delivered to continue captivating our interest.

Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

Well, the Vince Young really happened long before the lockout. You guys here know that. As for Orton, me personally, I haven't heard any thing about moving AH to Denver for Orton.

I don't know how that rumor got started, but one thing that happens a lot, A LOT, is someone will give an opinion and it's taken as a rumor. It's our Imedia) fault as much as it is the consumer. But some reporter may say something like "I think one option for the Broncos may be to move Kyle Orton to the Redskins who are looking for a QB" Then that becomes, the rumor is Orton to Washington for Haynesworth

Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

I'm pulling for VY to be a Skin. It will help me win when playing Madden 2012 online. Priorities man.

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[quote=SmootSmack;802473]Well, the Vince Young really happened long before the lockout. You guys here know that. As for Orton, me personally, I haven't heard any thing about moving AH to Denver for Orton.

I don't know how that rumor got started, but one thing that happens a lot, A LOT, is someone will give an opinion and it's taken as a rumor. It's our Imedia) fault as much as it is the consumer. But some reporter may say something like "I think one option for the Broncos may be to move Kyle Orton to the Redskins who are looking for a QB" Then that becomes, the rumor is Orton to Washington for Haynesworth[/quote]

Still if they are considering bringing in Young it better be to compete as well as an arrangement for him to behave himself if he doesn't win the job in Year 1.

Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

I've said it before I'll say it again if we get VY we will give him certain plays until he picks up the system and Beck/Grossman will start IMO I think that would be GREAT!

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[quote=Dirtbag59;802477]Still if they are considering bringing in Young it better be to compete as well as an arrangement for him to behave himself if he doesn't win the job in Year 1.[/quote]

It would be a relatively short-term, incentive laden deal

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[quote=SmootSmack;802483]It would be a relatively short-term, incentive laden deal[/quote]

Part of me likes the incentives but the problem with incentives is generally they're linked to playing and if you're looking for more freedom to play the hot hand then they make for a perfect excuse to cause discontent. You can't give someone incentives for not complaining right?

Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

[quote=SmootSmack;802473]Well, the Vince Young really happened long before the lockout. You guys here know that. As for Orton, me personally, I haven't heard any thing about moving AH to Denver for Orton.

I don't know how that rumor got started, but one thing that happens a lot, A LOT, is someone will give an opinion and it's taken as a rumor. It's our Imedia) fault as much as it is the consumer. But some reporter may say something like "I think one option for the Broncos may be to move Kyle Orton to the Redskins who are looking for a QB" Then that becomes, the rumor is Orton to Washington for Haynesworth[/quote]

Happens all the time. Unfortunately for some, the inability to differentiate between the real and imagined becomes a burden.

Generally, opinion articles are written to provoke more opinion and should not be interpreted by the consumer as fact. With so many news starved fans, forever seeking the least tid-bit of news about their favorite team, fact and fiction can easily become misconstrued.

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[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/redskins-quarterback-john-becks-chance-to-start-may-be-nearing/2011/05/10/AFx8RpqG_story.html]Redskins quarterback John Beck’s chance to start may be nearing - The Washington Post[/url]

Good to see that Beck is working his tail off.. If he actually is given a chance to start, I hope it will pay off when the season starts.

Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

[quote=GridIron26;802500][url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/redskins-quarterback-john-becks-chance-to-start-may-be-nearing/2011/05/10/AFx8RpqG_story.html]Redskins quarterback John Beck’s chance to start may be nearing - The Washington Post[/url]

Good to see that Beck is working his tail off.. If he actually is given a chance to start, I hope it will pay off when the season starts.[/quote]

Looking at that picture we need to rename our QB corps the smurfs. I swear QB corps from the 40's are looking at pictures of Beck and Grossman going "man those guys are short." Okay not really but you get the point.

Anyway I keep on thinking about this Vince Young possibility and I just can't help but wonder what the circumstances will be surrounding his signing. How will Young respond to having to compete for the starting job again? How will he feel playing for another coach that won't hesitate to bench him? How quickly will what he learn in Hemiridinger's system translate to learning under Kyle?

I know Beck isn't exactly Peyton Manning but when I look at him I see a guy that was compared frequently to Drew Brees before the draft. I see a guy with a quick release and a good arm that now has a year in the system, with enough mobility to buy a few extra seconds.

I see a guy that played very well in the 09 preseason which is significant because that was the start of his second year in Cam Cameron's system (part of the reason Schuab got traded for two 2's was preseason success). Most importantly I see a guy that won't get complacent. I see a guy that will always work hard and be nothing like the Redskins described by Willie Parker.

Of course the thing is Beck is unproven and Grossman is proven to be turnover prone. Bringing in Young on paper at least gives you a QB that was good enough to be a top 5 pick in the draft on top of the fact that he has NFL experience. He's also still mobile enough to help protect an O-Line that could very easily struggle again and he has an arm that allows him to strech the field.

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^ The concerns about Young are the issues he brings. Shanahan won't have a problem gathering any necessary information on him because of his relationships with Hemiridinger, Dalton and Fisher. They won't hesitate to give him the true scoop on Young and make a reccomendation if requested. Without a doubt Shanahan will not ignore their advice.

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[quote=Longtimefan;802525]^ The concerns about Young are the issues he brings. Shanahan won't have a problem gathering any necessary information on him because of his relationships with Hemiridinger, Dalton and Fisher. They won't hesitate to give him the true scoop on Young and make a reccomendation if requested. Without a doubt Shanahan will not ignore their advice.[/quote]

At least publicly Fisher gave Young a sign of approval. So with that said I think they'll make a run at him.
[url=http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/29224288]Fisher says good things about Vince Young?!? - CBSSports.com[/url]

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[quote=Dirtbag59;802527]At least publicly Fisher gave Young a sign of approval. So with that said I think they'll make a run at him.
[url=http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/29224288]Fisher says good things about Vince Young?!? - CBSSports.com[/url][/quote]

I find the last line of this quote to be very significant and the reason I view it as measured coming from Fisher. [quote] “Vince has won a lot of games; he’s led teams to the playoffs before,” Fisher told the NFL Network (via NFL.com). ”I believe he can (win in the NFL). It’s just a matter of him finding a place that suits him and be in the right place and work hard. But he certainly has that ability.” [unquote] "Right place and work hard....five important words"

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If we sign Young, perhaps he will wear a wristband.

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/12/report-mcnabb-refused-to-wear-a-wristband-with-plays/]Report: McNabb refused to wear a wristband with plays | ProFootballTalk[/url]

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[quote=GridIron26;802500][url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/redskins-quarterback-john-becks-chance-to-start-may-be-nearing/2011/05/10/AFx8RpqG_story.html]Redskins quarterback John Beck’s chance to start may be nearing - The Washington Post[/url]

Good to see that Beck is working his tail off.. If he actually is given a chance to start, I hope it will pay off when the season starts.[/quote]

Jason Reid in this particular article does not seem to hold out much hope for Beck and [more or less] thinks a failure in Beck could spell doom for the Shanahan's. I don't agree but I'll respect his opinion.

Beck's ultimate demise in Miami is self explanatory....was doomed in Baltimore from the start mainly because Newsome was committed to Flacco and Beck had made it clear he wanted to be in a situation where he could eventually become a starter again.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/if-shanahans-go-all-in-with-beck-theyre-taking-quite-a-gamble/2011/05/12/AF0OSmyG_story.html]If Shanahans go all-in with Beck, they’re taking quite a gamble - The Washington Post[/url]

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[quote=Lotus;802529]If we sign Young, perhaps he will wear a wristband.

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/12/report-mcnabb-refused-to-wear-a-wristband-with-plays/]Report: McNabb refused to wear a wristband with plays | ProFootballTalk[/url][/quote]

[IMG]http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSEVjfeGL9HwlzUKtZ8EFi3VhXN61bCjUiCjl0jAVpDAfjM0iPDrg[/IMG]
I knew it was him. See this guy isn't wearing a wristband so it's gotta be McNabb.

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[quote=Dirtbag59;802531][IMG]http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSEVjfeGL9HwlzUKtZ8EFi3VhXN61bCjUiCjl0jAVpDAfjM0iPDrg[/IMG]
I knew it was him. See this guy isn't wearing a wristband so it's gotta be McNabb.[/quote]

DB....How Fisher will reference Vince Young.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/post/roster-analysis-quarterbacks/2011/05/12/AFlP4izG_blog.html]Roster analysis: Quarterbacks - The Insider - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

[quote=Longtimefan;802530]Jason Reid in this particular article does not seem to hold out much hope for Beck and [more or less] thinks a failure in Beck could spell doom for the Shanahan's. I don't agree but I'll respect his opinion.

Beck's ultimate demise in Miami is self explanatory....was doomed in Baltimore from the start mainly because Newsome was committed to Flacco and Beck had made it clear he wanted to be in a situation where he could eventually become a starter again.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/if-shanahans-go-all-in-with-beck-theyre-taking-quite-a-gamble/2011/05/12/AF0OSmyG_story.html]If Shanahans go all-in with Beck, they’re taking quite a gamble - The Washington Post[/url][/quote]

Does anyone (Smoot) know if Reid and McNabb are close? I ask because Reid is usually pretty reserved guy. His recent articles though concerning the Redskins QB situation seem to have him on fire and they always seem to include a line or two about the treatment of McNabb.

Oh well I guess that's his job now. As a beat writer his job was mainly just to relay facts and rumors. As a columnist however he's probably expected to put a little more emotion into his pieces.

Re: Skinsfaninok's Available NFL QBs Poll
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;802535]Does anyone (Smoot) know if Reid and McNabb are close? I ask because Reid is usually pretty reserved guy. His recent articles though concerning the Redskins QB situation seem to have him on fire and they always seem to include a line or two about the treatment of McNabb.

Oh well I guess that's his job now. As a beat writer his job was mainly just to relay facts and rumors. As a columnist however he's probably expected to put a little more emotion into his pieces.[/quote]

Reid always has favored the "poor" starting QB being "done in" by the "bad guys".

The deal with ego wars is that it is not readily apparent if only one guy is completely in the wrong or if both have some share of the blame. However, it's quite clear that he's playing to the "poor McNabb" crowd and "wtf Shanahan is doing" sentiment.

What undid Shanahan in Denver was probably a shitty D and a lack of willingness to fire Slowik as a response to that. Cutler led a monster attack in 2008 that flamed out due to having to utilize scrub RBs like Tatum Bell.