Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

somehow i get the feeling this thread is never going to die. he's gone people. let it go.

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

pretty sure AH and the pats re-did his contract and are just waiting until after aug 4th to "announce" it so he can participate in workouts right now (as a traded player and not a new contract player ala moss).

wouldnt be surprised if its one of those 1 year deals where, if he proves himself this year, he can be an UFA next offseason and go get another big payday.

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

I don't think they re-did his deal. It was pretty friendly the rest of the way. We already paid him the big bucks.

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

[quote=skinsfan69;817699]somehow i get the feeling this thread is never going to die. he's gone people. let it go.[/quote]

Of course not. Maybe we should have a thread in the Parking Lot for fans that keep obsessing over players that are no longer part of this team, such as AH, McNabb, and Campbell.

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

We're working on creating a separate forum entirely dedicated to Gus Frerotte...but only one person will be allowed to post there

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;817834]We're working on creating a separate forum entirely dedicated to Gus Frerotte...but only one person will be allowed to post there[/quote]

:rofl:

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

[quote=Ruhskins;814883]Who cares, New England is talented enough to beat us with or without AH.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk[/quote]

Absolutely Right !!!!

Would suck if he made the Pro Bowl next year .......

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

I still maintain he would have needed to restore his name if he were still here in DC. He just wouldn't have been a punk with us forever. We'll regret letting him go.

[QUOTE]"It's a great chance to be on a great team; it's a chance, I guess, to restore my name or whatever you want to say," Haynesworth said. "Just a great chance to get back on the field and play football."[/QUOTE]

[url=http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/6827581/albert-haynesworth-looks-restore-name-new-england-patriot]Albert Haynesworth looks to restore name as a New England Patriot - ESPN Boston[/url]

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

Because even terrible people have pride.

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

He talked big when he first got here too. The guy is a fraud. Sooner or later things will go bad in NE. Guaranteed.

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

[quote=Schneed10;818936]I still maintain he would have needed to restore his name if he were still here in DC. He just wouldn't have been a punk with us forever. We'll regret letting him go.



[url=http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/6827581/albert-haynesworth-looks-restore-name-new-england-patriot]Albert Haynesworth looks to restore name as a New England Patriot - ESPN Boston[/url][/quote]


I agree.....I just wish we hadnt switched to the 3-4...Our defense would be extremely BEAST right now. But the 3-4 is the best defense and now that we are getting the personnel for it, Im not as bitter....was a HUGE Haynesworth fan, wish it wouldve worked out....

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

[quote=REDSKINZ-RIDEORDIE;818942]I agree.....I just wish we hadnt switched to the 3-4...Our defense would be extremely BEAST right now. But the 3-4 is the best defense and now that we are getting the personnel for it, Im not as bitter....was a HUGE Haynesworth fan, wish it wouldve worked out....[/quote]

He wasn't happy in the 4-3 either. He's a POS.

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

[Quote=Lard Butt]
“[B]With the contract, it's going to be all on me[/B],” he said. “What they want me to come here and do is play football and be disruptive, do what I do, so that’s what I've come here to do. When you get on the field, you're not thinking about dollar signs or anything like that, you're just going out there to play. [B]It's a lot of money, but honestly, I put more pressure on myself than what the contract will do.[/B]
“[B]I have such high standards for myself[/B] that, you know, [Snyder] can pay me half a billion dollars, and it still would have been the pressure I put on myself. [B]I expect myself to play at a high level and to dominate.[/B] And if I’m not making plays, then people around me are making plays. As far as the number, I mean, yeah, it's great. It’s awesome, don’t get me wrong, but as far as the pressure, no.”
[/quote]
:doh:

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

[quote=REDSKINZ-RIDEORDIE;818942]I agree.....I just wish we hadnt switched to the 3-4...Our defense would be extremely BEAST right now. But the 3-4 is the best defense and now that we are getting the personnel for it, Im not as bitter....was a HUGE Haynesworth fan, wish it wouldve worked out....[/quote]
In an int with Haslett, he basically said he could not get Big to do much of anything. Did not want to play nose, end or any other position.....completely uncooperative

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

[quote=Mattyk;818941]He talked big when he first got here too. The guy is a fraud. Sooner or later things will go bad in NE. Guaranteed.[/quote]

Was he a fraud in Tennessee? Even POS people like Haynesworth have motivations.

He played huge in Tennessee because he was proud and wanted money. He came here and got his money and sat back like a POS.

But now he knows, if I don't get my ass in gear for Belichick nobody in the league will take me again and I'll be done. Shanahan could have sat on him until he came around to that same conclusion here.

The only way it goes bad in New England is if they extend him and give him a huge payday. Otherwise, just keep giving him the TO non-guaranteed type deal, and he'll shred offensive lines.

We blew this big time. Shanahan's my way or the highway won out over a basic understanding of human nature.

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

[quote=Schneed10;819056]Was he a fraud in Tennessee? Even POS people like Haynesworth have motivations.

He played huge in Tennessee because he was proud and wanted money. He came here and got his money and sat back like a POS.

But now he knows, if I don't get my ass in gear for Belichick nobody in the league will take me again and I'll be done. Shanahan could have sat on him until he came around to that same conclusion here.

The only way it goes bad in New England is if they extend him and give him a huge payday. Otherwise, just keep giving him the TO non-guaranteed type deal, and he'll shred offensive lines.

[B]We blew this big time. Shanahan's my way or the highway won out over a basic understanding of human nature[/B].[/quote]


For about 15 years, the nickname that Mike Shanahan has had around NFL circles is "My Way Mike". He has NEVER been a student of human nature or a man willing to meet someone even close to "halfway" when there is a difference of opinion. If you do not like "The Shanahan Solution" to a problem, then you need to go and find some other place to live/work/play where other folks will give a horse's ass about what you think or feel.

That is who he has been; that is who he is; that is who he is going to continue to be...

If that does not work for you as a fan, suck it up because that is what you will have to deal with for the next several years - - - unless Danny Boy reverts to his previously demonstrated meddling behaviors. Now that is an option Redskins' fans do not even need to contemplate...

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

Haynesworth responds only well under the Laissez-Faire leadership style.
Shanahan almost solely employs the autocratic leadership style.
It's quite clear that the incompatibility will not be fixed.

And Schneed really thinks he understands human nature, but trashes psychologists.

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;819068]Haynesworth responds only well under the Laissez-Faire leadership style.
Shanahan almost solely employs the autocratic leadership style.
It's quite clear that the incompatibility will not be fixed.

And Schneed really thinks he understands human nature, but trashes psychologists.[/quote]

I think he responds to attention. His line coach in Tennessee was tough on him but in exchange they essentially designed the whole defense around him. In Washington he had two coaches that were basically saying "this is how we run our defense, sure we might design a play or two for you but we'll be damned if we design the whole thing to make you happy."

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;819071]I think he responds to attention. His line coach in Tennessee was tough on him but in exchange they essentially designed the whole defense around him. In Washington he had two coaches that were basically saying "this is how we run our defense, sure we might design a play or two for you but we'll be damned if we design the whole thing to make you happy."[/quote]

I'm sure that Belichick will design his entire defense around Fat Al. :silly:

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;819071]I think he responds to attention. His line coach in Tennessee was tough on him but in exchange they essentially designed the whole defense around him.[/quote]

Haynesworth is like a Final Fantasy character afflicted with the "Berserk" status when the game is on. He cannot be controlled or reasoned with in-game, hence the need to "let him improvise". ON THE FIELD, his play is dictated by his [B]emotional state[/B], which is irrational in nature. Hence, trying to get him to follow directions like a computer program is going to FAIL every time. He's effective when he goes RAAAAGE!!!, and he doesn't feel that way, his play drops off big time or he embellishes an injury.
I can't name them specifically, but I'm certain of reading some media reports saying something to this effect.

That Schwartz was able to manage Haynesworth that well and push his buttons so skillfully is an amazing accomplishment in my book. He employed the proper psychological "manipulations" on Haynesworth to extract good seasons out of him. To me, it's a testament to his skill as a leader

But even so, Detroit didn't bother to bid for AH at that such a low price, which is telling sign that SOMETHING(S) spooked them away even though his addition would have created a rediculous D-lie.

Belichick is going to be fuming when he meets the "Berserk" Haynesworth.

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

I think it's a stretch to say we blew it with Haynesworth because we traded him to New England. It's pretty simple, either you want to play ****ing football or you don't. You got your money, now suit up and shut the **** up.

I'm not a Shanahan fan but we didn't bring him here to be a shrink or to "motivate" Albert Haynesworth. He's a football coach and if Haynesworth doesn't respect the Burgundy and Gold then don't let the door hit ya on the way out big guy. I maintain he'll be pretty good in N.E., but I'm not expecting him to return to Tennessee form anytime soon, if ever.

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

Im tellin yall, he and his agent came here to collect that 38 or so million over the first 18 months with the specific plan to force his way out of DC after the first year and to a new team and get a new contract. No way he intended on playing the remaining years of his team friendly contract when he was 29, 30, 31.

He left more total money with tampa to sign with the skins? No way. Vinny offered an insane, never before seen front loaded contract to try and take advantage of the once in a life time no-cap year. He and his agent took vinny and the skins for a ton of loot.

What they didnt anticipate was that vinny would be fired and mike shannahan and bruce allen would be brought in. They didnt anticipate that he would be stuck in DC for 2010, they didnt anticipate that his value would take such a hit. The plan to force their way out of town took an extra year, and subsequently the tactic cost him some leverage now.

i still think he will sign a new contract with NE announced aug 4. Something small, 1 yr or more than 1 yr but incentive heavy.

38 million over the first 18 months seems so obvious to me. Take the 38 mil then move on. I would have advised the same thing.

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;819071]I think he responds to attention. His line coach in Tennessee was tough on him but in exchange they essentially designed the whole defense around him. In Washington he had two coaches that were basically saying "this is how we run our defense, sure we might design a play or two for you but we'll be damned if we design the whole thing to make you happy."[/quote]

I am sure that a lot of people knew this before he came to Washington, yet f'ing Vinny went ahead and gave him a ton of money. It baffles me why someone would spend so much money on a player with questionable character on a team that had a coach who probably didn't have the best job security (and was fired at the end of the season).

Belichick will make him work or will cut him (or trick the Raiders into giving them a high draft pick for him). He won't be worried AH going to a division rival or be concerned with "punishing" him, etc., etc. In the end this was a low risk high reward situation for NE, whether we like it or not.

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

[quote=over the mountain;819096]

He left more total money with tampa to sign with the skins? No way. Vinny offered an insane, never before seen front loaded contract to try and[B] take advantage of the once in a life time no-cap year.[/B] He and his agent took vinny and the skins for a ton of loot.
[/quote]

Thats a heck of a gamble in 2009 to bet that the 2010 season would be uncapped. Sure it was possible at the time and even realistic but still not smart to make such a bold move.

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;819098]Thats a heck of a gamble in 2009 to bet that the 2010 season would be uncapped. Sure it was possible at the time and even realistic but still not smart to make such a bold move.[/quote]

Man, can you imagine if there had not been an uncapped year? We would have been up the sh*t creek without a paddle.

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;819098]Thats a heck of a gamble in 2009 to bet that the 2010 season would be uncapped. Sure it was possible at the time and even realistic but still not smart to make such a bold move.[/quote]

most of that 38 million was guaranteed, so whether 2010 was uncapped nor not, AH got paid. How much was that guaranteed bonus he got paid ;ast summer? 21 million in 1 check? didnt AH prmise to do whatever shanny asked right up to and when the check cleared, then he reniged on his handshake promise to shanny that he would do whatever they say if he accepted the check?

Like ruhskins pointed out, the skins, vinny and danny were the ones banking on 2010 being an uncapped year by giving AH all that money allocated to that year. Ah's money was mostly guaranteed, that was the problem with the contract vinny offereed. practically 38 million over 18 months guaranteed with the hope AH would be honorable and not bitch n moan the remaining 5 1/2 years of his team friendly contract ... during his prime years.

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

[quote=REDSKINZ-RIDEORDIE;818942]I agree.....I just wish we hadnt switched to the 3-4...Our defense would be extremely BEAST right now. But the 3-4 is the best defense and now that we are getting the personnel for it, Im not as bitter....was a HUGE Haynesworth fan, wish it wouldve worked out....[/quote]

Well in 2009, the 10th ranked defense got us 4 wins and the 31st defense in 2010 got us 6 wins. Probably better to take our lumps in 2009. It always seemed that when the redskins were 4-3, they had a good statistical defense, Id rather have a defense that translates to wins.

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;819068]Haynesworth responds only well under the Laissez-Faire leadership style.
Shanahan almost solely employs the autocratic leadership style.
It's quite clear that the incompatibility will not be fixed.

And Schneed really thinks he understands human nature, [B]but trashes psychologists[/B].[/quote]

I trash psychologists?

:confused:

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

[quote=Schneed10;819056]Was he a fraud in Tennessee? Even POS people like Haynesworth have motivations.

He played huge in Tennessee because he was proud and wanted money. He came here and got his money and sat back like a POS.

But now he knows, if I don't get my ass in gear for Belichick nobody in the league will take me again and I'll be done. Shanahan could have sat on him until he came around to that same conclusion here.

The only way it goes bad in New England is if they extend him and give him a huge payday. Otherwise, just keep giving him the TO non-guaranteed type deal, and he'll shred offensive lines.

We blew this big time. Shanahan's my way or the highway won out over a basic understanding of human nature.[/quote]

I'm surprised you're down with letting a player dictate things over the team. AH was the perfect example of what was wrong with the Skins under Vinny and Danny's control. The classic me guy. What this team needed was a little my way or the highway type of attitude. Shanahan stepped into an even bigger mess than I think he even realized before he took the job. And as we can see he's performing a major overhaul of the roster, getting rid of the headcases and me guys, and bringing in guys that have traits such as leadership, work ethic, effort, hustle, team, etc. Everything that AH did not represent.

AH was the one that blew this by not falling in line and playing ball the way a true pro is supposed to do, and paid to do. Again I can't figure out why you're on this bum's side. I know you like to argue for the sake of arguing, but you've lost some cred points on this one with me.

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;819061]For about 15 years, the nickname that Mike Shanahan has had around NFL circles is "My Way Mike". He has NEVER been a student of human nature or a man willing to meet someone even close to "halfway" when there is a difference of opinion. If you do not like "The Shanahan Solution" to a problem, then you need to go and find some other place to live/work/play where other folks will give a horse's ass about what you think or feel.

That is who he has been; that is who he is; that is who he is going to continue to be...

If that does not work for you as a fan, suck it up because that is what you will have to deal with for the next several years - - - unless Danny Boy reverts to his previously demonstrated meddling behaviors. Now that is an option Redskins' fans do not even need to contemplate...[/quote]

Well this isn't really an argument in support of Shanahan's handling of Haynesworth, it's simply a "no duh, what did you expect" post.

What anyone expected Shanahan to do is not the point. The point is what should have been done. Just because everyone knows that Shanahan is always a rigid disciplinarian doesn't mean it's always the right way to handle situations.

Look back at the great Joe Gibbs. When Riggo was showing up hungover and half drunk you didn't hear Gibbs making a stink about it, even though he was regarded as being a tough discipline guy. He made exceptions, he understood human nature, and most of all he designed his system around the talents of his players and put them in position to be successful.

I don't like when a coach has a system and rigidly sticks to it. If you have a player of Albert's caliber, it seems that if you're worth your weight as a defensive mind you could find a way to use him as a havoc-wreaker. I'll bet that's what Belichick does.

Is Albert to blame here? Absolutely. I would have supported Shanahan if he benched him again this season for non-compliance. But to trade him away for a 5th round pick? I think he could have remained a rigid SOB without trading Haynesworth; eventually Albert would have decided he'd rather his legacy be one of dominance on the field rather than pouting off of it.

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

[quote=Schneed10;819183]Well this isn't really an argument in support of Shanahan's handling of Haynesworth, it's simply a "no duh, what did you expect" post.

What anyone expected Shanahan to do is not the point. The point is what should have been done. Just because everyone knows that Shanahan is always a rigid disciplinarian doesn't mean it's always the right way to handle situations.

Look back at the great Joe Gibbs. When Riggo was showing up hungover and half drunk you didn't hear Gibbs making a stink about it, even though he was regarded as being a tough discipline guy. He made exceptions, he understood human nature, and most of all he designed his system around the talents of his players and put them in position to be successful.

I don't like when a coach has a system and rigidly sticks to it. If you have a player of Albert's caliber, it seems that if you're worth your weight as a defensive mind you could find a way to use him as a havoc-wreaker. I'll bet that's what Belichick does.

Is Albert to blame here? Absolutely. I would have supported Shanahan if he benched him again this season for non-compliance. But to trade him away for a 5th round pick? I think he could have remained a rigid SOB without trading Haynesworth; [B]eventually Albert would have decided he'd rather his legacy be one of dominance on the field rather than pouting off of it[/B].[/quote]

doubtful, pretty sure thats why this thread exists. although i do agree with you on the majority of your post

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

kind of rule of thumb in any workplace, don't test the new boss & be on your best behavior until you know how flexible they will be w/you. Who knows what really turned things south, but from all accounts it seems clear that Haynesworth didn't do much if anything to adjust to new leadership.

Shanahan was in a position where he needed to be tough right from the get go. He couldn't start out by letting some players dictate things & then get tough. That just doesn't work. Long-term I hope we look back at this & say this is when the team changed.

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

[quote=Mattyk;819182]I'm surprised you're down with letting a player dictate things over the team. AH was the perfect example of what was wrong with the Skins under Vinny and Danny's control. The classic me guy. What this team needed was a little my way or the highway type of attitude. Shanahan stepped into an even bigger mess than I think he even realized before he took the job. And as we can see he's performing a major overhaul of the roster, getting rid of the headcases and me guys, and bringing in guys that have traits such as leadership, work ethic, effort, hustle, team, etc. Everything that AH did not represent.

AH was the one that blew this by not falling in line and playing ball the way a true pro is supposed to do, and paid to do. Again I can't figure out why you're on this bum's side. I know you like to argue for the sake of arguing, but you've lost some cred points on this one with me.[/quote]

This is not arguing for its own sake, this is just me being right. If I cared about cred points, they'll be restored as soon as Albert gets his 10th sack this season playing next to Wilfork.

I do agree that you want your team buying into a disciplined philosophy and falling in line behind the leadership. But you can get that accomplished by sitting his ass on the bench until he decides to fall in line.

He didn't have leverage in the situation, there were plenty of seasons left on his contract.

Granted, there is a cost. You have to carry $5.4 million in cap space for a player who may continue to pout. And the locker room has to deal with the distraction. But we'd have been better off in the long run incurring that cost until he came around, rather than trading him for a measly 5th round pick two years from now.

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

[quote=freddyg12;819186]kind of rule of thumb in any workplace, don't test the new boss & be on your best behavior until you know how flexible they will be w/you. Who knows what really turned things south, but from all accounts it seems clear that Haynesworth didn't do much if anything to adjust to new leadership.

Shanahan was in a position where he needed to be tough right from the get go. He couldn't start out by letting some players dictate things & then get tough. That just doesn't work. Long-term I hope we look back at this & say this is when the team changed.[/quote]

If the moves we made this season prove to be effective, and our new D Line is holding strong and letting Orakpo and Kerrigan wreak havoc, then we will have effectively replaced Haynesworth's capabilities with the right players in the right system, and I will forgive and forget all about this.

In the end, Shanahan will be judged on the performance of the guys who are here as opposed to the guys who are not. If he puts together a strong defense, then it renders the Albert Haynesworth decision moot.

So I'm with you, I hope that happens.

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

[quote=Schneed10;819187]This is not arguing for its own sake, this is just me being right. If I cared about cred points, they'll be restored as soon as Albert gets his 10th sack this season playing next to Wilfork.

I do agree that you want your team buying into a disciplined philosophy and falling in line behind the leadership. But you can get that accomplished by sitting his ass on the bench until he decides to fall in line.

He didn't have leverage in the situation, there were plenty of seasons left on his contract.

Granted, there is a cost. You have to carry $5.4 million in cap space for a player who may continue to pout. And the locker room has to deal with the distraction. But we'd have been better off in the long run incurring that cost until he came around, rather than trading him for a measly 5th round pick two years from now.[/quote]

I think it's up for debate as to who is right or wrong. I know you like to proclaim yourself right like that ends the debate, but there were a couple of options Shanahan had and his choice was to cut our losses and get him out of our hair.

I don't think it should be underestimated how much the distraction factor plays in here. You could see that guys were clearly worn out talking about this last year and when Rak showed up to camp this year he basically said enough is enough, we can't have this again.

In order to truly move forward, I think it was best to get rid of all the distractions and all the things that handcuffed this team in the past. Whether it was poor attitudes, performance, work ethic, etc. One bad apple tends to spoil the bunch and AH was definitely rotten from that perspective.

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

[quote=Mattyk;819194]I think it's up for debate as to who is right or wrong. I know you like to proclaim yourself right like that ends the debate, but there were a couple of options Shanahan had and his choice was to cut our losses and get him out of our hair.

I don't think it should be underestimated how much the distraction factor plays in here. You could see that guys were clearly worn out talking about this last year and when Rak showed up to camp this year he basically said enough is enough, we can't have this again.

In order to truly move forward, I think it was best to get rid of all the distractions and all the things that handcuffed this team in the past. Whether it was poor attitudes, performance, work ethic, etc. One bad apple tends to spoil the bunch and AH was definitely rotten from that perspective.[/quote]

I do agree, that's a significant cost. But did we read anything this whole offseason indicating that Albert was still going to pout for us this year like he did last year? Or did we just assume he would.

I didn't see anything. I read that he was in much better shape (which he appears to be if you see photos of him as a Patriot). I think there's a decent chance he was planning to come this year and at least partially move on.

I think the transition from malcontent to player who's finally falling in line was happening faster that we all think. There's no evidence to suggest that wasn't the case, just a bunch of assumptions.

But hey like I said, in the end if Shanahan puts together a good defense and we improve, then Albert's cap space will have been put to good use, and you can't fault the decision. So you're right, to be fair I can't declare myself right on this. Shanahan can render the argument moot with a successful season, and I definitely hope that happens.

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

[quote=Schneed10;819176]I trash psychologists?

:confused:[/quote]

I knew you were a closet Scientoligist. Come out of the closet Schneed, come ... out ... of ... the ... closet.

While I generally agreed with Schneed's point of view pre-trade (sit his fat ass until he plays for us), my post trade attitude has changed considerably. I am glad that he is gone - that the circus is gone, that the focus being on this lousy time wasting a**hole POS is gone, that every third post in every thread is no longer Haynesworth related (we appear to be containing the AH fallout to a single thread that is slowly dying down - it only gets bumped 2 of 3 days as opposed to hourly).

So what if NE got a deal from us? It's like VC's last kick in the butt to remind how a well run organization works and how far we are from it. VC never picked up garbage and turned into gold, he picked up gold and turned it into garbage (of course, sometimes he just went straight for the garbage to garbage route). Maybe, just maybe, in 3 or 4 years, we can take on a talented malcontent or two on the cheap. Now? It would just be more of the same and more distractions.

It's like a weight hanging around the team is gone, a big fat lazy weight. Cutting ties with AH cut ties with the past and that is a good thing. Even if we didn't get much more than a ham sandwich for him, I will savor that ham sandwich as we look forward to a future without AH and all he represented.

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

[quote=Schneed10;819187]This is not arguing for its own sake, this is just me being right. [B] If I cared about cred points, they'll be restored as soon as Albert gets his 10th sack this [U]season playing next to Wilfork[/U].[/B]

I do agree that you want your team buying into a disciplined philosophy and falling in line behind the leadership. But you can get that accomplished by sitting his ass on the bench until he decides to fall in line.

He didn't have leverage in the situation, there were plenty of seasons left on his contract.

Granted, there is a cost. You have to carry $5.4 million in cap space for a player who may continue to pout. [B][U] And the locker room has to deal with the distraction[/U][/B]. But we'd have been better off in the long run incurring that cost until he came around, rather than trading him for a measly 5th round pick two years from now.[/quote]

he probably will do better in new england stat wise, although while playing here his stats wern't bad either, but as you said he will be playing next to wilfork, not carter and carriker.

and the second part of your statement makes no sense, the locker room has to deal with it? they had to deal with it last year and it was a huge distraction and it effected the team in a negative way. why would you want this to continue, for a half dozen sacks a year? i'd rather have a uniform team with everyone on the same page striving for one goal together.

and yoiur biggest flaw through out your entire arguement is that we would have to wait for hanyesworth to come around, how do you know this happens, because form all acounts of this guy he has no intergrity or heart and would never come around.

you usually have a good argument and a leg to stand on, but in this case i just don't get it, kinda like driving slow in the left lane ;)

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

[quote=Schneed10;819198]I do agree, that's a significant cost. But did we read anything this whole offseason indicating that Albert was still going to pout for us this year like he did last year? Or did we just assume he would.

I didn't see anything. I read that he was in much better shape (which he appears to be if you see photos of him as a Patriot). I think there's a decent chance he was planning to come this year and at least partially move on.

I think the transition from malcontent to player who's finally falling in line was happening faster that we all think. There's no evidence to suggest that wasn't the case, just a bunch of assumptions.

But hey like I said, in the end if Shanahan puts together a good defense and we improve, then Albert's cap space will have been put to good use, and you can't fault the decision. So you're right, to be fair I can't declare myself right on this. Shanahan can render the argument moot with a successful season, and I definitely hope that happens.[/quote]

There wasn't much of an indication last year he was going to pull the crap he did. He took the $21M bonus on the premise he would show up and play, and all he did was show up and suck his thumb. So I think based on last year it was a safe assumption things weren't going to get better.

Funny, based on that photo in his NE uniform he looks heavier than last year to me, and I thought I read some tweets about reporters saying he was looking bigger. I can't imagine during a lockout he did much to stay in good shape. He's just not that kind of guy.

Re: Haynesworth to the Patriots for a 5th rounder.
 

[quote=Schneed10;819198]I do agree, that's a significant cost. [B] But did we read anything this whole offseason indicating that Albert was still going to pout for us this year like he did last year? Or did we just assume he would.[/B]
I didn't see anything. I read that he was in much better shape (which he appears to be if you see photos of him as a Patriot). I think there's a decent chance he was planning to come this year and at least partially move on.

[B]I think the transition from malcontent to player who's finally falling in line was happening faster that we all think. There's no evidence to suggest that wasn't the case, just a bunch of assumptions[/B].

But hey like I said, in the end if Shanahan puts together a good defense and we improve, then Albert's cap space will have been put to good use, and you can't fault the decision. So you're right, to be fair I can't declare myself right on this. Shanahan can render the argument moot with a successful season, and I definitely hope that happens.[/quote]

Let's talk assumptions here. Was it reasonable to assume that AH would continue to be a big ass distraction?

First, AH hated Shanahan - that is well documented and he has not take one inch of it back. He made absolutely nothing in the way of concillatory gestures to the team, coach, fans. If he had (i.e "I was being a little intransigent last year, I may have been wrong in my approach"), we most certainly would have heard about it. Barring a true, come-to-Jesus moment, the AH/MS relationship was far to gone to be fixed given the personalities involved.

In light of this damaged relationship, I would suggest that unless AH [I]completely[/I] submitted to the Shanny way, he would have been a distraction b/c media, fans, etc. would be looking for friction to blow out of proportion - every play would have been analyzed to determine if AH was truly playing in line. Given how bad things got, it was not going to be a "we kissed, made up and are now bestest pals" turnaround. The circus would have continued even if AH played well ("Now that AH is playing well on 3rd downs, do you see an expanded role for him? Why now? Why not?, etc.").

Even if you don't accept that AH playing well was not a necessary cure to the problem, is it reasonable to assume AH had changed the attitudes that contributed to the problem? I suggest no.

AH reporting to camp is not a concillatory gesture, it is merely minimal compliance and in keeping with his actions last year. He never - to my knowledge - said "I am not going to do that". He just gave half assed attempts when put in situations he didn't like. Unless there is something to suggest he changed his ways, going to camp is nothing more than a continuation of his passive-aggressive compliance.

Last year, AH's attitudes and actions contributed to the circus that was AH. While never refusing a "direct order", Haynesworth made comments, took actions and demonstrated in every possible way that Albert was going to do it Albert's way or no way. To date, AH has done [I]nothing[/I] to disavow his behavior from last year.

In light of his prior year's affirmative actions and his failure to disclaim those actions and attitudes, the reasonable assumption is not that he had been reached and had a professional epiphany. Rather, the more reasonable assumption is that AH intended to continue being Albert and create the same distractions he did last year.

Dear God, did I just write all that on Fatal Bert? Damn you Schneed, you made my ham sandwich taste bad.