Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;818261][B]There's room for just one "greater than thou" asshole on this site[/B]...and it's not you. So tone it down Webster[/quote]

Really?? Only one?? We sure have a helluva lot of runner-ups for the job.

I guess the Ego just wants to ensure competition for every position at the Warpath.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;818267]Really?? Only one?? We sure have a helluva lot of runner-ups for the job.

I guess the Ego just wants to ensure competition for every position at the Warpath.[/quote]

lol...nice post

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;818267]Really?? Only one?? We sure have a helluva lot of runner-ups for the job.

I guess the Ego just wants to ensure competition for every position at the Warpath.[/quote]

Every position except his own....Scud's thinking of starting a coup

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;818257]Oh I'm sorry, did the words with negative connotations but neutal definitions screw with your head?
First word: deliberately.
1. Done with or marked by full consciousness of the nature and effects; intentional: mistook the oversight for a deliberate insult.
2. Arising from or marked by careful consideration: a deliberate decision. See Synonyms at voluntary.
3. Unhurried in action, movement, or manner, as if trying to avoid error: moved at a deliberate pace. See Synonyms at slow.

See? A deliberate decision by the coach IS NOT NECESSARILY A BASELESS decision. Clearly, you think baseless and deliberate are synonyms.

Do I have to bring up the stats from running backs from the ZBS in Denver or the completion percentage of WCO QBs to drill into your head that a larger stat value is not a definitive INDICATOR of "betterness". By your standards, Lendale White was elite in 2008. Well, White has dropped out of the NFL universe now, but I'm sure by your standards, those FIFTEEN TDs are truly a good indicator of a good RB. As a goal-line back, you've got more QUALITY OPPORTUNITIES to punch it in. He SHOULD be having higher stat totals due to having more opportunities.

Even at the higher baseline for TDs required to goal line backs to be deemed "effective" IN THIER ROLE, Hightower's TD production has been going down, with an abysmal 5 TDs last season. This is a part of a continuing trend of decline.


It's doubtful this guy is going to make his dough here as just a redzone TD vulture. It's going to be as a third down back who can block and catch who can hopefully bounce back from a mere down season.[/quote]

LOL. I'll just defer to what SmootSmack said. Know your place. All you can do is stomp your feet and scream the name LenDale White. You're talking loud and saying nothing.

In 2008 when LenDale White scored 15 TD's, he was a good player on his team. Are you saying he wasn't? When they needed a goal line TD, he delivered repeatedly. Are you also saying that Hightower isn't more of a complete player than White? If that's the case, you're nuts.

Hightower has gotten goal-line carries, but he brings a lot more to the table than that. The tape is there. Just watch it. I'm not saying he's going to be a superstar for us, but LenDale White he is not.

For the record, I never said scoring touchdowns makes you "elite," but it certainly doesn't hurt you as a player. If we have Helu and Torain but also added a guy with a proven nose for the endzone, how is that in any way a bad thing? Especially for the low price we paid?

Please enlighten me as to the point of your drivel.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

Consider that the Cardinals placed a 2nd round tender on him back in March and we got him for a conditional late round pick and Holliday? That's not too bad at all

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

GMscud - just make him a parrot avatar and call it a day. You can do that now.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=GMScud;818273]LOL. I'll just defer to what SmootSmack said. Know your place. All you can do is stomp your feet and scream the name LenDale White. You're talking loud and saying nothing.

In 2008 when LenDale White scored 15 TD's, he was a good player on his team. Are you saying he wasn't? When they needed a goal line TD, he delivered repeatedly. Are you also saying that Hightower isn't more of a complete player than White? If that's the case, you're nuts.

Hightower has gotten goal-line carries, but he brings a lot more to the table than that. The tape is there. Just watch it. I'm not saying he's going to be a superstar for us, but LenDale White he is not.

For the record, I never said scoring touchdowns makes you "elite," but it certainly doesn't hurt you as a player. If we have Helu and Torain but also added a guy with a proven nose for the endzone, how is that in any way a bad thing? Especially for the low price we paid?

Please enlighten me as to the point of your drivel.[/quote]

I'm saying none of those things. I am already well aware of his reputed blocking, catching, and goal line skills. You don't need to tell me to watch the tape when I already have accepted such things.

The mention of LenDale White is to show how difficult it is to sift the "truly good" and the "truly bad" this particular class of backs. Also, another factoid is that just because the back has had a good year, does not mean he's a good back in general.

As for Hightower, I already think he'll be better than Betts and there is good chance he'll beat out Keiland Williams, barring poor preseason performances.

And yes, I'm aware I'm the neighborhood idiot here(not that I'm completely blameless), and hence all statements put forth by me will be deemed the viewpoints of a demented mind and full of irrational inneundo, justified or not.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;818281]I'm saying none of those things. I am already well aware of his reputed blocking, catching, and goal line skills. You don't need to tell me to watch the tape when I already have accepted such things.

The mention of LenDale White is to show how difficult it is to sift the "truly good" and the "truly bad" this particular class of backs. Also, another factoid is that just because the back has had a good year, does not mean he's a good back in general.

As for Hightower, I already think he'll be better than Betts and there is good chance he'll beat out Keiland Williams, barring poor preseason performances.

And yes, I'm aware I'm the neighborhood idiot here(not that I'm completely blameless), and hence all statements put forth by me will be deemed the viewpoints of a demented mind and full of irrational inneundo, justified or not.[/quote]

You're not the neighborhood idiot. You're something, but not the neighborhood idiot.

But you still have really yet to illustrate a point here. Is it simply that scoring a lot of TD's doesn't necessarily mean you're a good back? If so, then fine, but LenDale White in that case really hurts your argument actually. He was truly one dimensional. A big load that couldn't really catch, wasn't fast, didn't have great vision, and his blocking was ho-hum. You can't really use him as an argument against Tim Hightower as far as predictors for success. LenDale White wishes he had the multiple skill-sets of Hightower.

No one here (except for sportscurmudgeon) is saying the guy is going to be a superstar, but he's done enough to prove he's no LenDale White, and he's arguably better than anyone else on our roster at the position.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

I just want to know what SCP's point is. Do you think he's a dog we shouldn't have traded a low round pick for? Or are you saying he's just an average joe? or are you you just creating a humongous argument while trying to prove some tangential point (if so, that's my job buddy and saden1 is first on the depth chart)?

If the first, possibly but clearly he had some skills and may end up one of those low-risk high reward guys (or even low risk, some reward). If the second, not sure anyone is disagreeing with you all that vociferously.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

Some people are never satisfied

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;818276]Consider that the Cardinals placed a 2nd round tender on him back in March and we got him for a conditional late round pick and Holliday? That's not too bad at all[/quote]

Actually as far as RFA's go thats actually pretty cheap. IIRC the difference in money for an NFL team between the 1st/3rd and 2nd round tender is minimal. Then again maybe thats just the elder Bidwell trying to be cheap.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;818249]Curmudgeon...is that you?[/quote]

Yes, it is I.

And Terry Allen, Stephen Davis and Earnest Byner were good RBs - - albeit Allen and Byner were here for only part of their prime years - - but Hightower had the potential to be better than any of them if he gets any blocking. I had no intention of insinuating that any of those guys were stiffs or stumblebums; they were not. Neither was Clinton Portis until the injuries caught up with him.

I think Hightower has the potential to be better than all of them...

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=GMScud;818283]You're not the neighborhood idiot. You're something, but not the neighborhood idiot.

But you still have really yet to illustrate a point here. Is it simply that scoring a lot of TD's doesn't necessarily mean you're a good back? If so, then fine, but LenDale White in that case really hurts your argument actually. He was truly one dimensional. A big load that couldn't really catch, wasn't fast, didn't have great vision, and his blocking was ho-hum. You can't really use him as an argument against Tim Hightower as far as predictors for success. LenDale White wishes he had the multiple skill-sets of Hightower.

No one here (except for sportscurmudgeon) is saying the guy is going to be a superstar, but he's done enough to prove he's no LenDale White, and he's arguably better than anyone else on our roster at the position.[/quote]

Yep, you got it. A poor man's Chester Taylor(who has not reached his ceiling yet, however high it is) is how I'm seeing Hightower at the moment. He can block and catch, and we need a RB with such skills. I'm not complaining about the cost either; I praised the FO in that regard. But, there's still some reason for me to be a little wary of Hightower.

He runs hard, but I also do not see too much of a "bruiser" in him for short yardage either. I like his ability to break big ones more than his "power running".

Also, looking at his individual game logs(didn't check until this post), Hightower seems to either hot or cold in his performances. 63%(465 yds out of his 736 total yards) of his 2010 rushing yardage total is from three games: Atlanta, Seattle, Denver, Kansas City, and St. Louis. By this, I would infer that he certainly can tear up the trash, but he(or perhaps the Cards O) normally struggles against tougher competition.
I hope he becomes more consistent against better teams as a Skin and that he is in a better situation here, but we'll see.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;818306]Yes, it is I.

And Terry Allen, Stephen Davis and Earnest Byner were good RBs - - albeit Allen and Byner were here for only part of their prime years - - but Hightower had the potential to be better than any of them if he gets any blocking. I had no intention of insinuating that any of those guys were stiffs or stumblebums; they were not. Neither was Clinton Portis until the injuries caught up with him.

I think Hightower has the potential to be better than all of them...[/quote]

Wow, Terry Allen. That brings me back a bit. It's always funny to think about all the guys we've all but forgotten. Some of them are relatively recent guys from the Gibbs era like Marcus Washington, Lamar Marshall, Joe Salvae, and Ryan Boschetti. Then theres random guys from the Spurrier/Turner/Marty era like David Schotz, Sam Shade, Marco Coleman, Corey Raymer, Chris Doering, Kevin Locket, Walter Rasby, Ifeanyi Ohalete.

Funny how easily some guys just slip our minds.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

Not sure about this one. Hightower want see carries until Torain and the Rookies fall flat on there face or get injured. Hopefully that doesnt happen because our oline is as bad as Arizona's was last year !!

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

What exactly makes our O-line so bad?

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=GreekSkin;818404]What exactly makes our O-line so bad?[/quote]

First we have 3 nobody bodies in the interior !!

Secondly we have 2 of the softest tackles in the League !!

Trent Williams is a bust out of the gate and Should not be playing Left tackle.

He will look 200 times worst than last year considering our QB situation.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=MitchelldotM;818406]First we have 3 nobody bodies in the interior !!

Secondly we have 2 of the softest tackles in the League !!

Trent Williams is a bust out of the gate and Should not be playing Left tackle.

He will look 200 times worst than last year considering our QB situation.[/quote]

Huh?! Determined to be negative I see. We'll see how the 3 nobodies do - truly a question mark but by no means a sure thing suckage. Lich, Montgomery and Chester have each shown talent.

The "two softest tackles" and TW being a "bust out of the gate" are just inane rantings of negativity. Nope, TW was not a pro-bowl tackle - He struggled at times but mostly showed just why he was a top pick. He faced some top pass rushers last year and, by all accounts, generally acquitted himself well.

Got some actual analysis to back up your conclusions which, by the way, are contrary to the conclusions of every knowledgeable source (read - people who studied the tape) I have read so far?

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

Where do you get your good news Redskins.com??? hahaha

Trent Williams is horrid at run blocking and also surrendered coutless hurries and pressures not mention more sacks than anyone who started at least 8 games.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=MitchelldotM;818406]First we have 3 nobody bodies in the interior !!

Secondly we have 2 of the softest tackles in the League !!

[COLOR="DarkRed"]Trent Williams is a bust out of the gate and Should not be playing Left tackle.
[/COLOR]
He will look 200 times worst than last year considering our QB situation.[/quote]

That pretty much cements your troll status.
Go back to extremeskins....

And its spelled "worse".
w-o-r-s-e

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

lol an entertaining 10 minutes of my life have passed reading the last few pages.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

So back on topic,

I love SC's optimism, but if Hightower ends up being mentioned in the same breath as some of the great Redskins we've had at RB I will be shocked.

I love his work ethic and versatility, great pickup and I still can't believe we got him for what we did, but I'm not seeing an all time great in the works.

I'd love to be wrong though.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

Matty,

I think that brings up a concern. Why did we get him for so cheap? On paper, it seems like a ridiculous steal. Why weren't there any other bidders?

For the record I think it was a good pickup. We got younger for a late draft pick.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=hooskins;818462]Matty,

I think that brings up a concern. Why did we get him for so cheap? On paper, it seems like a ridiculous steal. Why weren't there any other bidders?

For the record I think it was a good pickup. We got younger for a late draft pick.[/quote]

I'm guessing because they are content with their rookie 2nd rounder, Ryan Williams with Beanie Wells and Stephens-Howling backing him up.

Maybe they figured let's get something for TH now instead of cutting him.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

Perhaps, I should have been clearer. I absolutely understand AZ's perspective. They already have good RBs and Hightower was not a necessity.

My question is, why weren't other teams after him which would in turn drive up the price? Not trying to be negative, but just a thought/concern. Either way, I am happy with the deal.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

RBs are a dime a dozen. Nobody usually gives up much in a trade unless it's for a top guy.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=hooskins;818476]Perhaps, I should have been clearer. I absolutely understand AZ's perspective. They already have good RBs and Hightower was not a necessity.

My question is, why weren't other teams after him which would in turn drive up the price? Not trying to be negative, but just a thought/concern. Either way, I am happy with the deal.[/quote]

I could be wrong, but I think there wasn't much of a demand for RBs this offseason. Some big names were out there Reggie Bush (trade), Bradshaw, and D. Williams. But I just didn't see such a demand for RBs. Which makes me wonder if CP will get any opportunities.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

My guess is that not many teams are in the market for a running back. The days of the premier back are gone. Most teams already have 2 good backs. Hell, Dallas had 3 and let one go.

There are still a few quality running backs that are free agents. There was no need for anyone else to be looking for TH as far as I'm concerned. There is also the possibility that other teams were waiting to see if he would be released instead of trading for him.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=hooskins;818476]Perhaps, I should have been clearer. I absolutely understand AZ's perspective. They already have good RBs and Hightower was not a necessity.

My question is, why weren't other teams after him which would in turn drive up the price? Not trying to be negative, but just a thought/concern. Either way, I am happy with the deal.[/quote]

Many teams already have a RB that provides at least some of what Hightower provides or are looking for an RB with a different skillset. No reason to start coughing up fourths and thirds for him.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

Hightowers a decent running back, don't get me wrong. But he fumbles a lot. Which then makes me wonder, who fumbles more Torain or Hightower? I think more than likely we will trade Torain to a team in need of a RB, keep hightower, Helu, and Royster.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

What made you to think that he fumbles alot? He fumbled only 12 times with 439 carries & 118 catches. I would say that's low.

[URL="http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/11383/tim-hightower"]Tim Hightower Stats, News, Videos, Highlights, Pictures, Bio - Washington Redskins - ESPN[/URL]

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

He put it on the ground 5 times last year. He needs to clean that up.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=GridIron26;818555]What made you to think that he fumbles alot? He fumbled only 12 times with 439 carries & 118 catches. I would say that's low.

[URL="http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/11383/tim-hightower"]Tim Hightower Stats, News, Videos, Highlights, Pictures, Bio - Washington Redskins - ESPN[/URL][/quote]

[url=http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=1&season=2010&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticPositionCategory=RUNNING_BACK&d-447263-s=RUSHING_FUMBLES]NFL Stats: by Player Position[/url]

Hightower was tied for the fifth most fumbles in the league at 4. Thats bad. Even considering the next Redskins to appear on the list was Torain tied at 19th on the list at 2 fumbles.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=GreekSkin;818404]What exactly makes our O-line so bad?[/quote]

Lack of ability to pass protect and marginal ability to block for running plays.

That about sums it up.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=Mattyk;818452]So back on topic,

I love SC's optimism, but if Hightower ends up being mentioned in the same breath as some of the great Redskins we've had at RB I will be shocked.

I love his work ethic and versatility, great pickup and I still can't believe we got him for what we did, but I'm not seeing an all time great in the works.

I'd love to be wrong though.[/quote]

Matty:

I am not predicting "an all time great" here.

I said he had the potential to be the best Skins' RB since Riggo. That was almost 30 years ago and since then the Skins have only had a handful of good running backs - - and have had exactly ZERO great ones.

Hightower is a young guy who could give the Redskins a string of seasons with 1200 yards rushing and another 750 yards receiving while also providing something more than a blocking dummy in pass protection situations. That will not make him an "all time great" but it would be a nice upgrade...

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

I hear ya, I guess I'm not seeing that potential greatness. I still only see him as a 3rd down type of back. Not that there's anything wrong with that, a guy that can block and catch some passes on 3rd downs is a nice thing to have.

Torain will have a role assuming he can stay healthy and Helu has been flashing, so I'm not seeing Hightower coming in and being the workhorse.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

An underrated part of this trade is that the Redskins seem to have a clear picture of how Hightower fits into what they are trying to do on offense this year. It's everything the Bowen/Atogwe/Cofield signings weren't.

There's a lot of good things about Hightower. He adds value with his blocking, and he's on an upswing in his career. He was not a good player at all in 08 or 09. He was average in 2010, and perhaps impressively so behind a sieve of an OL.

Put another way: Hightower was more valuable in Arizona last year behind a horrible OL and a team that almost never led and trailed by a lot than Torain was here on a team that lead a fair amount and had a merely below average OL.

Again, I would rather have kept the late round pick because we're only getting one year of Tim Hightower with this trade, and it's not a particularly valuable year with the Redskins well behind in the NFC East. But it would appear he's going to play a role in this offense and be a meaningful contributor.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

See, this is what I love about Warpath. SC thinks Hightower has Riggo potential, Matty thinks he'll be more of a third down back. But neither of them called the other stupid or asshole for having varying opinions so far apart.

Just something I noticed and it's worth pointing out from time to time.

Myself, I think Hightower will be more like Eric Dickerson.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

[quote=12thMan;818726]See, this is what I love about Warpath. SC thinks Hightower has Riggo potential, Matty thinks he'll be more of a third down back. But neither of them called the other stupid or asshole for having varying opinions so far apart.

Just something I noticed and it's worth pointing out from time to time.

[B]Myself, I think Hightower will be more like Eric Dickerson[/B].[/quote]

Well I think he's going to be a role player and, also, that your a stupid asshole for having an opinion that varies so far from mine.

I'd facepalm, but I think I used my alotment earlier.

Re: Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.
 

Hightower is Dickerson now?

Dickerson is one of the best RBs ever. I'm not sure there is any RB in the league now that can compare to him, Adrian Peterson (TD or fumble) included.