Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

What would you call GTripp with a billion dollars?





A Dan Snyder clone.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=freddyg12;859681]The major mistake that Shanny & Allen made was the McNabb trade. I can't help but think that move was made in part to show the owner that they were trying to win asap (not saying Snyder was "meddling" by any means).

Aside from that move, I give high marks to the personel moves of this regime. We can all point out the many names that came to camp, e.g. W. Parker, L. Johnson, D. Stallworth, but before you criticize those moves, realize they were low cost, low risk. I wanted a QB in last year's draft, but this year's class is looking good & I respect that Shanny didn't like any of the prospects from last draft.

That 3-1 start at the least showed that the team could win when healthy, albeit v. lesser teams for the most part. It raised expectations, but injuries reveal depth or lack thereof. This team is so far away from having quality depth. I don't think you can criticize them too much for that. It will take time, but we've already seen a commitment to the draft, something lacking for years here.[/quote]

The mistake, in my opinion, was not the McNabb trade. It was deciding that Rex and Beck were the alternatives should it not work out. Even if McNabb did work out, how long did they realistically expect to have him for? Only team in the NFL last year without at least one QB under 28 years old, if I recall correctly.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=freddyg12;859681]The major mistake that Shanny & Allen made was the McNabb trade. I can't help but think that move was made in part to show the owner that they were trying to win asap (not saying Snyder was "meddling" by any means).

Aside from that move, I give high marks to the personel moves of this regime. We can all point out the many names that came to camp, e.g. W. Parker, L. Johnson, D. Stallworth, but before you criticize those moves, realize they were low cost, low risk. I wanted a QB in last year's draft, but this year's class is looking good & I respect that Shanny didn't like any of the prospects from last draft.

That 3-1 start at the least showed that the team could win when healthy, albeit v. lesser teams for the most part. It raised expectations, but injuries reveal depth or lack thereof. This team is so far away from having quality depth. I don't think you can criticize them too much for that. It will take time, but we've already seen a commitment to the draft, something lacking for years here.[/quote]

Agreed. The McNabb trade was a mistake. It's hindsight though. At the time, alot of "experts" thought it was a good trade.

I don't understand all of the criticizing though. It's been a year and a half. I think we had a good draft but unfortunately we've had some big injuries and our depth sucks. That's not MS's fault. He only has so many draft picks.

The Skins were a crappy run franchise for 10+ years that never focused on the future. It's caught up to us. Time to build this right and have some patience.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=freddyg12;859681]The major mistake that Shanny & Allen made was the McNabb trade. I can't help but think that move was made in part to show the owner that they were trying to win asap (not saying Snyder was "meddling" by any means).

Aside from that move, I give high marks to the personel moves of this regime. We can all point out the many names that came to camp, e.g. W. Parker, L. Johnson, D. Stallworth, but before you criticize those moves, realize they were low cost, low risk. I wanted a QB in last year's draft, but this year's class is looking good & I respect that Shanny didn't like any of the prospects from last draft.

That 3-1 start at the least showed that the team could win when healthy, albeit v. lesser teams for the most part. It raised expectations, but injuries reveal depth or lack thereof. This team is so far away from having quality depth. I don't think you can criticize them too much for that. It will take time, but we've already seen a commitment to the draft, something lacking for years here.[/quote]I think Shanahan has a big enough ego that he doesn't suck up to anybody. But the same big ego deluded him into thinking he's some miracle worker. I believe he sincerely thought he could make things happen with Haynesworth and Mcnabb. It was just a gross miscalculation on his part. No more, no less. I think coaches in general just want to win as much as possible as soon as possible, and Shanahan is no different. That's why he went for McNabb.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;859688]The mistake, in my opinion, was not the McNabb trade. It was deciding that Rex and Beck were the alternatives should it not work out. Even if McNabb did work out, how long did they realistically expect to have him for? Only team in the NFL last year without at least one QB under 28 years old, if I recall correctly.[/quote]


He had to have one QB on the roster that had prior experience on the system. I think his biggest mistake so far was the McNabb trade, but it is what it is.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;859691]He had to have one QB on the roster that had prior experience on the system. I think his biggest mistake so far was the McNabb trade, but it is what it is.[/quote]

So that would be Rex...so it goes back to Beck. the biggest mistake is still Beck...with apologies to Slingin Sammy :)

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;859693]So that would be Rex...so it goes back to Beck. the biggest mistake is still Beck...with apologies to Slingin Sammy :)[/quote]

Considering he got Beck for free, wasn't really a big gamble. Now if he doesn't draft a QB this year......pitchforks and torches!!

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;859693]So that would be Rex...so it goes back to Beck. the biggest mistake is still Beck...with apologies to Slingin Sammy :)[/quote]

how can beck be the biggest mistake? i would say biggest dissapointment or let down, since i think everyone on this board was hoping he would be who shanny sold us on, but we really gave up nothing for him if i remember correctly. i think dmac was way worse because of what we gave up to have him for 12.5 games. either way shanny's track record has taken some serious hits since becoming a redskin

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;859693]So that would be Rex...so it goes back to Beck. the biggest mistake is still Beck...with apologies to Slingin Sammy :)[/quote]

It's tough to scout a player's brain; it's easy to scout their physical tools. Shanahan certainly liked Beck's physical skillset. But when Shanahan was evaluating his mental game, maybe Beck's tape at BYU didn't have him doing all of these panic checkdowns and double clutching. Shanahan might have thought all Beck needed was just needed time to settle into the scheme.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=SBXVII;859497]I know "both" QB's suck, it's hard to believe Rex is better then Beck. But as bad as Rex is I have to mention that again I don't think the INT's were all Rex's fault. The first one Hankerson fell down on his route, the second one I watched #10 WR run a slant route right into the LB. Why? I don't know. But instead of taking his route to the inside of the LB he stopped and started running behind the LB/post route looking for an open section of field.

I totally agree Rex should have seen the LB atleast from my perspective but perhaps not from Rex's. Again I don't want it to sound like I'm dismissing Rex's short comings but I couldn't help but think the WR failed to run the right route.[/quote]

You're far too kind with Rex. He totally stared down Gaffney and as usual, didn't see the coverage underneath.

It's ok to say it, Rex blows.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=mlmdub130;859695]how can beck be the biggest mistake? i would say biggest dissapointment or let down, since i think everyone on this board was hoping he would be who shanny sold us on, but we really gave up nothing for him if i remember correctly. i think dmac was way worse because of what we gave up to have him for 12.5 games. either way shanny's track record has taken some serious hits since becoming a redskin[/quote]

I feel like writing some sort of SCP type response...but I was kinda joking about Beck being the biggest mistake. But I would reiterate that I don't think adding McNabb was as big a problem as adding McNabb [I]AND[/I] thinking Beck was the potential heir apparent.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=Mattyk;859700]You're far too kind with Rex. He totally stared down Gaffney and as usual, didn't see the coverage underneath.

It's ok to say it, Rex blows.[/quote]

I watched that INT over and over and over again yesterday and all I could keep thinking was if Rex had some legs he's got an open space on the right side to run for a few yards instead of forcing the throw

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;859703]I watched that INT over and over and over again yesterday and all I could keep thinking was if Rex had some legs he's got an open space on the right side to run for a few yards instead of forcing the throw[/quote]

Yeah... I think he made up his mind in the huddle where he was going with that throw.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

REx still thinks he can muscle throws into the middle of the field. His worst INTs are always to LBs or safeties sitting in a crowded zone.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

Matty,

I don't think he blows. He was moving the ball up and down the field. He made some really good throws under pressure. There was one out route in particular where he delivered a perfect timing pass before the WR broke and he took a huge hit afterwards.

I think the inconsistency is the killer with him. But we have known that from day 1. down 9-13 on their 10 yard line you just can't throw that INT. It hurt a lot too, because we were just developing some momentum.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

Will there be this much hate for Shanny and Co with a new 1WR, 2 new Olinemen, and a New starting QB?

Folks, we are still lacking in talent from the offense side. Last year defense was the proirity, this year with a full offseason there will be renewed focus on the offense. Im willing to wait and see, patient is a b*tch though.

But continue on...

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=Mattyk;859706]Yeah... I think he made up his mind in the huddle where he was going with that throw.[/quote]

Well he basically said after the game he felt an obligation to make something happen. Which is what always happens. He's out to prove that he can be the reason we win games, and it just backfires

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;859719]Well he basically said after the game he felt an obligation to make something happen. Which is what always happens. He's out to prove that he can be the reason we win games, and it just backfires[/quote]

Which is his ultimate downfall.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

Still better than Beck, since he can move the ball. Rex will lose more games than win them, but Beck will lose all of them.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

Wrecks is like the guy that runs around in COD and ends up with a 15-25 k/d. Beck camps in the corner and ends up 1-5.

Pick your poison.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=Mattyk;859700]You're far too kind with Rex. He totally stared down Gaffney and as usual, didn't see the coverage underneath.

It's ok to say it, Rex blows.[/quote]

Yes he did stare down Gaffney. How hard is it to teach a QB to not look at the intended WR? maybe go through your progressions backwards, look at him at the beginning to make sure he's gotten off his block then come back to him at the right time.

I remember watching the play develope and immediatly looked to Gaffney myself because I thought oooh slant go to him.... but then it seemed Grossman waited too long to go to the play, Gaffney ran right into the LB and stopped and then instead of getting in front of the LB he shuffles behind him and works his route toward the endzone, and the dreaded pass right into the LB's hands. :doh:

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=hooskins;859711]Matty,

I don't think he blows. He was moving the ball up and down the field. He made some really good throws under pressure. There was one out route in particular where he delivered a perfect timing pass before the WR broke and he took a huge hit afterwards.

I think the inconsistency is the killer with him. But we have known that from day 1. down 9-13 on their 10 yard line you just can't throw that INT. It hurt a lot too, because we were just developing some momentum.[/quote]

Moving the ball up and down the field is useless if you can't score.

He blows, he's thrown almost twice as many INTs as TDs this year, along with losing 2 fumbles. Add in his medicore career numbers and I don't know what else you want to call it.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=hooskins;859729]Wrecks is like the guy that runs around in COD and ends up with a 15-25 k/d. Beck camps in the corner and ends up 1-5.

Pick your poison.[/quote]

lol pretty much

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=hooskins;859726]Still better than Beck, since he can move the ball. Rex will lose more games than win them, but Beck will lose all of them.[/quote]


Wait.... were you a Beck fan prior to the switch? lol.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=hooskins;859729]Wrecks is like the guy that runs around in COD and ends up with a 15-25 k/d. Beck camps in the corner and ends up 1-5.

Pick your poison.[/quote]

LOL nice analogy.... but it's supposed to be reversed..... Beck was supposed to be the more mobile QB. lol. but your 100% correct.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=Mattyk;859733]Moving the ball up and down the field is useless if you can't score.

He blows, he's thrown almost twice as many INTs as TDs this year, along with losing 2 fumbles. [/quote]


Exactly. You don't win games based off the amount of yardage you accumulate. Driving down to the goal line only to give them the ball doesn't do squat for the team.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;859748]Exactly. You don't win games based off the amount of yardage you accumulate. Driving down to the goal line only to give them the ball doesn't do squat for the team.[/quote]

Yup, and I'm tired of the excuses for both Grossman and Beck. Let's just call it like it is, both guys stink. I'm not about to hop on the fire Shanahan wagon yet, but it's a concern that for 2 years now his QB choices have been complete head scratchers.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

This fire shanahan stuff is nonsense. Firing Shanahan would almost certainly involve Snyder bringing Cerrato back in some capacity. I think both Shanahans need to stay here atleast 3 years before firing is even in the discussion.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;859567]It's probably not just you...but it's not me.

Anyway, here's a question for you. Brady Quinn? Yes? No?[/quote]

You have to consider the context here:

Brady Quinn or another year of Rex and Beck? Quinn in a heartbeat.

Brady Quinn because the Skins use their first 3 picks in the draft to get OL and do not get a QB until Round 5? Quinn in a minute.

Brady Quinn added to this roster tomorrow because he became a free agent overnight? No...

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=SBXVII;859586]I don't know what to say....

It's blatently obvious DS won't be able to please all fans at all times. But I was pretty sure most fans after the Zorn failure pretty much wanted a proven HC (and MS is) and wanted "consistancy". Simply throwing everything away yet again after 2yrs (this offseason) or after 3yrs is not, I would guess to be, "consistancy." We need to keep a coaching staff longer then 2-3 yrs, allow them to get the types of players for their system on the team, and keep a QB in the same scheme longer then 2 yrs. Why is P.Manning, E.Manning, Breese, Brady, etc. etc. so succesfull? because they stayed in the same system for more then 2 yrs.[/quote]

I agree completely that a consistent and long-term planned approach is the way to build a successful team.

However, I must depart from your commentary when you say that P. Manning, E. Manning, Brees, Brady etc. are successful because they stayed in the same system for more than 2 years.

I truly believe that P. Manning, E. Manning, Brees and Brady - - add Aaron Rodgers to this list too - - are successful first and foremost because of their innate talent level and their commitment to learn the game. They stay in the same system to a large extent because they make "the system they play in" a successful one. [That is a good example of a self-fulfilling prophecy.]

The Washington Redskins have not had a QB with the innate talent level of any one of those 5 QBs mentioned above since Sonny Jurgensen was in his prime. That was about 40 years ago...

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=Mattyk;859754]Yup, and I'm tired of the excuses for both Grossman and Beck. Let's just call it like it is, both guys stink. I'm not about to hop on the fire Shanahan wagon yet, but it's a concern that for 2 years now his QB choices have been complete head scratchers.[/quote]

Here, Here they stink.

but my concern is still I don't think anyone else would have a major difference in game play. Right now they wouldn't because of the OL injuries, then there is all the WR shuffling/injuries, RB injuries, so on and so forth.... don't get me wrong there would be better play but how much is the question.

See some fans stop with questioning the QB, some simply question the coaching staff, some question the injuries, but what I'm saying is I thinks it's all the above. Clearly we need more of an accurate QB that makes better decisions, we need our injured players to be playing again and some decent back ups, and how much of it could be the design of the plays? I think it's easy to sit back and design a play and say "with these routes the defense will give us this" or "with this line up the defense should give us that", but what if whats expected to happen is not happening on the field? No different then a play being sent in to optimize the man-to-man coverage and all of a sudden the defense switches to zone coverage. At that point I think we all can agree that it's on the QB to change the play but how much leeway is KS giving the QB to change the play?

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;859768]You have to consider the context here:

Brady Quinn or another year of Rex and Beck? Quinn in a heartbeat.

Brady Quinn because the Skins use their first 3 picks in the draft to get OL and do not get a QB until Round 5? Quinn in a minute.

Brady Quinn added to this roster tomorrow because he became a free agent overnight? No...[/quote]

Why is it that when I hear Quinn's name Grossman and Cutler come to mind? To me all 3 QB's are the same mold, they throw errant passes for INT's now and then... atleast once a game. Twice for others.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;859771]I agree completely that a consistent and long-term planned approach is the way to build a successful team.

However, I must depart from your commentary when you say that P. Manning, E. Manning, Brees, Brady etc. are successful because they stayed in the same system for more than 2 years.

I truly believe that P. Manning, E. Manning, Brees and Brady - - add Aaron Rodgers to this list too - - are successful first and foremost because of their innate talent level and their commitment to learn the game. They stay in the same system to a large extent because they make "the system they play in" a successful one. [That is a good example of a self-fulfilling prophecy.]

The Washington Redskins have not had a QB with the innate talent level of any one of those 5 QBs mentioned above since Sonny Jurgensen was in his prime. That was about 40 years ago...[/quote]

Look people (and your not the only one) I didn't mean to say those QB's are ONLY successful because they were in the same system for several years, what I was saying is it helped their developement and helps that they know the scheme inside and out vs. being forced to learn a new system every 2 years. They have talent but that talent alone is not what makes them special, no different then them being in the same system does not make them special.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

Unaccustomed as I am to being a voice of sweetness and light, I will say that I think the Redskins are on a much better path today than they were 2 years ago. They have not arrived at the end of the path (playoff contender on a regular basis) and the path is not level and paved every step of the way.

But this one is a better path than existed at the time Allen and Shanahan came to town. They conducted two drafts and two off-seasons. They did not hit home-runs with every draft pick, but they acquired good contributors in addition to two players who might turn out to be excellent (Williams and Kerrigan). Most importantly, they did not succumb to the temptation to spend a ton of money to bring in high-priced free agents whose major motivation in coming here was to get paid and sit on their fat wallets. That was the path this team was on for about 10 years prior to Allen/Shanahan...

Just because that is the way Allen/Shanahan behaved in their two off-seasons, I think the path they are on now is far better than the one the Skins were on 2 years ago.

Yes, the McNabb trade blew up in their face. However, that is not an indictment of the strategic path they have the team on. That is the failure of a tactical move they made. Another tactical failure was the blunderous way that Shanahan handled the "McNabb situation" last year. That could not have helped solidify the idea that "we are all in this together" among players in the locker room and it will take a bit of time to get that stink out of there.

The team has a lot of picks this year in the draft - - and might get more if they compensatory ones for losing free agents to other teams. Let me assume they have 10 picks in the draft as an example. If that is the case, then the real test of the path that the team is on will be to see how well the Redskins' scouting department can come up with good value picks in at least 7 of those 10 selections.

The path of "build through the draft and make judicious use of free agency" is a good path to follow. [B]HOWEVER[/B], it is the scouting department that has to deliver a solid draft board year after year in order for that path to get you to the playoffs.

To be polite, the Skins drafts of the years from about 2002 - 2008 left a whole lot to be desired. Was that the fault of the owner/GM - - or was it the scouting department? Starting two years ago, the owner butted out of the draft and the GM/coach are reputedly good at team building, so the spotlight now is on the scouts.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=SBXVII;859774]Why is it that when I hear Quinn's name Grossman and Cutler come to mind? To me all 3 QB's are the same mold, they throw errant passes for INT's now and then... atleast once a game. Twice for others.[/quote]

Cutler only has 6 INTs on the year. We could only be so lucky to have a QB of his caliber.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=SBXVII;859773]Here, Here they stink.

but my concern is still I don't think anyone else would have a major difference in game play. Right now they wouldn't because of the OL injuries, then there is all the WR shuffling/injuries, RB injuries, so on and so forth.... don't get me wrong there would be better play but how much is the question.

See some fans stop with questioning the QB, some simply question the coaching staff, some question the injuries, but what I'm saying is I thinks it's all the above. Clearly we need more of an accurate QB that makes better decisions, we need our injured players to be playing again and some decent back ups, and how much of it could be the design of the plays? I think it's easy to sit back and design a play and say "with these routes the defense will give us this" or "with this line up the defense should give us that", but what if whats expected to happen is not happening on the field? No different then a play being sent in to optimize the man-to-man coverage and all of a sudden the defense switches to zone coverage. At that point I think we all can agree that it's on the QB to change the play but how much leeway is KS giving the QB to change the play?[/quote]

The injuries have definitely hampered the offense, but I find it hard to believe a decent QB wouldn't be able to make some plays that Grossman and Beck simply aren't capable of making.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;859783]

To be polite, the Skins drafts of the years from about 2002 - 2008 left a whole lot to be desired. Was that the fault of the owner/GM - - or was it the scouting department? Starting two years ago, the owner butted out of the draft and the GM/coach are reputedly good at team building, so the spotlight now is on the scouts.[/quote]Vinny was here in 2009, so we have to count that year too.
Except for 2008 and 2002, our drafts were "small", as in those drafts had fewer than the 7 picks you get by default. It's up to the FO to hold onto picks and not make stupid trades like the ones for Duckett, Lloyd, Jason Taylor, etc or trade up for a Jason Campbell.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=Mattyk;859754]Yup, and I'm tired of the excuses for both Grossman and Beck. Let's just call it like it is, both guys stink. I'm not about to hop on the fire Shanahan wagon yet, but [B]it's a concern that for 2 years now his QB choices have been complete head scratchers.[/B] [/quote]

But what "choices" were there? Do you break the bank for Carson Palmer? Make another McNabb-like move for aging veteran Matt Hasselbeck? Bring in a journeyman like Matt Moore?

And whoever you do bring in, put him behind a sub-par offensive line, take away his top wide receiver, take away his team reception leading tight end, and give him absolutely no running game whatsoever -- would the results be any different?

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=Beemnseven;859909]But what "choices" were there? Do you break the bank for Carson Palmer? Make another McNabb-like move for aging veteran Matt Hasselbeck? Bring in a journeyman like Matt Moore?

And whoever you do bring in, put him behind a sub-par offensive line, take away his top wide receiver, take away his team reception leading tight end, and give him absolutely no running game whatsoever -- would the results be any different?[/quote]

So were Grossman and Beck the absolute best choices available? Really? Beck doesn't even look like he belongs in the league and Grossman is well, Grossman.

What would have been wrong with Hasselbeck for a one or two year stop gap? He's been solid for the Titans.

We're 2 years into this regime and QB is a bigger mess than its ever been.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)
 

[quote=Mattyk;859914]So were Grossman and Beck the absolute best choices available? Really? Beck doesn't even look like he belongs in the league and Grossman is well, Grossman.

What would have been wrong with Hasselbeck for a one or two year stop gap? He's been solid for the Titans.

We're 2 years into this regime and QB is a bigger mess than its ever been.[/quote]

We give him one or two years, he bolts to Tennessee for sure since they gave him three. Not to mention we might have had to pay extra to pry him away from his the OC there, since he's had a relationship with his OC since he was a little kid.