re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=30gut;873210]I think you should care about their system and their talent because its the context in which Flynn is being evaluated.
If you're saying you like Flynn because of his physical skillset then by all means dismiss the context.
But, if you like Flynn because of his production you'd better play close attention to the system and the talent where he amassed that production.
Because rest assured you're signing/trading Flynn's physical skillset not his production.
And imo Flynn skillset suggest that he's more of the quintessential 'system' QB then he is a scheme diverse physically gifted QB.
And if you're signing a system QB you'd better be able to replicate the the pieces of that system ([B]caoching/gameplanning/playcalling/talent (receiving corps/OL etc[/B]) if you want similar results.[/quote]

I love all those things and value them higher then just one guy who happens to be an awesome qb. System QB's mean a lot more flexibility.

I think something overlooked is what changes are the coaches willing to make for whatever QB we get. If we get Bradford should we try and force him in a scheme that doesnt fit for him like McDainels did? If RGIII isnt ideal for our offense should we adjust it for him? If were stuck with Rex for another year should we continue doing what we did?

re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;873193]This thread keeps making me think about the Cowboys punter.

Speaking of which, why can no one hit that scoreboard anymore? [B] If the Cowboys are going to consistently fail to qualify for the playoffs, I don't want them to go quietly. I want a blooper reel[/B].[/quote]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBHiYUFKQoM]Cowgirl Don't Cry Official Video - YouTube[/ame]

*there is some original artwork in that video, fyi

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;873182]In what way is he similar to Matt Cassel? These guys are not similar.[/quote]

I'll basically type what I said in my post but more explanation and maybe since it's an answer to your question it will land this time... College backup drafted late, becomes a pro backup on a team with a ton of talent and a highly productive offense. In limited time they show flashes of ability and production while surrounded by said talent in said system. Similar.

Again, it's very hard to project how they will respond as a starter and with heightened responsibility and scrutiny.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

By the way, thanks to whoever fixed Matt Flynn's name in the thread title. That was starting to bug me a bit.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=Ruhskins;873218]By the way, thanks to whoever fixed Matt Flynn's name in the thread title. That was starting to bug me a bit.[/quote]

I'll 2nd that.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

I have to admit. This pic has me worried.
[IMG]http://drunkathlete.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/matt_flynn21.jpg[/IMG]
I knew between RG3 and Flynn that RG3 would have the uncontested edge in intangibles but it's hard to take an athlete seriously when they smoke cigarettes. Especially when they're unproven. Maybe he's quit since then but still. Not a good sign.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=30gut;873210]I think you should care about their system and their talent because its the context in which Flynn is being evaluated.
If you're saying you like Flynn because of his physical skillset then by all means dismiss the context.
But, if you like Flynn because of his production you'd better play close attention to the system and the talent where he amassed that production.
Because rest assured you're signing/trading Flynn's physical skillset not his production.
And imo Flynn skillset suggest that he's more of the quintessential 'system' QB then he is a scheme diverse physically gifted QB.
And if you're signing a system QB you'd better be able to replicate the the pieces of that system (caoching/gameplanning/playcalling/talent (receiving corps/OL etc) if you want similar results.[/quote]

I better? Or else what? By the way, I said deal's off if GB franchises him, and we have to trade to get him. Other than WR I don't think they have better talent and there are plenty of options to upgrade at WR. Our TEs and running backs are just as good, and I'd even put our O-line up against theirs. System is very similar to Kyle's. People still call Brady a system QB. Well, he systemed his way to 3 Super Bowls.

And I don't get carried away with physical talents or "gifts". Brady looked like a dufus at the combine, Brees is short, Rivers throws like a girl and there's a long list of dudes with "physical gifts" who sucked ass in the NFL (see Ryan Leaf and Heath Schuler). Who knows, he could suck somewhere else, but if we don't have to give up picks to get him I think he's worth a shot. Hell, if they can get Flynn and RGIII drops to 6, I'd be OK with taking them both.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=Paintrain;873217]I'll basically type what I said in my post but more explanation and maybe since it's an answer to your question it will land this time... College backup drafted late, becomes a pro backup on a team with a ton of talent and a highly productive offense. In limited time they show flashes of ability and production while surrounded by said talent in said system. Similar.

Again, it's very hard to project how they will respond as a starter and with heightened responsibility and scrutiny.[/quote]

Cassel hasn't been terrible in KC, and even though NE won 11 games with Cassel, he wasn't putting up the same numbers as Brady. He is what he is. I think the year before Brady threw for over 50 TDs. I would have taken Cassel here over the train wreck we've had over the last 2 years.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

flynn does have the all time packers single game TD touchdown record in only 2 attempts. funny.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=44Deezel;873224]I better? Or else what?[/quote]Or risk a serious case of buyers remorse when the QBs production with your team doesn't match his production with his old team.

[quote]Other than WR I don't think they have better talent and there are plenty of options to upgrade at WR. Our TEs and running backs are just as good, and I'd even put our O-line up against theirs.[/quote]So we agree that there talent level at WR is better.
Where we disagree is by what margin.
Greg Jennings, [B][COLOR="YellowGreen"]Jordy Nelson[/COLOR][/B], James Jones, Donald Driver are significantly better then our WRs to the extent that counting on a 1 FA WR to stem the gap won't be enough.
[YT]2sDYZYmn7tE[/YT]
For the sake of not quibbling I agree that ours TEs and RBs are a push.

But.
Apart from talent there's a continuity gap that is as much a factor in scheme success as talent.

What if Flynn's productivity is derived only from being in the Green Bay's superior offensive system/weapons and developing chemistry and comfort in the system over time?

Ala Kevin Kolb and Donovan McNabb with the Eagles?

[quote]System is very similar to Kyle's.[/quote]In what way?
In a sense all NFL systems are similar.
For me a similar scheme is one where the core concepts and verbiage are the same to the point where the name of the play in one system is either the same or very close to the name of the same play in the other system.
For example David Anderson came from Houston and was able to play right away because he spoke the language of our offense.
I don't think Green Bay and our offense share the same language.
Conceptually I see Green Bay's offense as 5-7 step drop vertical rhythm passing game heavy shotgun w/a focus that attacks sideline to sideline with downflied instride especially with crossers and posts that gain RAC yardage for the WRs; with a sprinkle under center offense with 3 TEs and muliple RBs.

I see our offense as a mix of boot-swap playaction passing and 3-5-7 step rhythm passing with a focus on zone beating in-breaking or stop routes that attacks down the center of the field.

[quote]And I don't get carried away with physical talents or "gifts". [/quote]Um okay? No one is asking you to get carried away.
But throughout your advocacy for Flynn you haven't mentioned anything about his skillset.
My point is that when you sign a QB you get their skillset not their production.

[quote]there's a long list of dudes with "physical gifts" who sucked ass in the NFL[/quote]Okay.
There's an even longer list of QBs that didn't have the physical skillset to have more then a cup of coffee in the NFL.
[quote]Who knows, he could suck somewhere else, but if we don't have to give up picks to get him I think he's worth a shot.[/quote]I'm not predicting whether Flynn will be good/not good.
My point is that Flynn is no different then any other journeyman/second chance QB available (Jimmy Clausen, Chad Henne, Josh Johnson, Matt Moore, etc) and they all should be judged on their skillset not their production.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=mlmpetert;873214]I love all those things and value them higher then just one guy who happens to be an awesome qb. System QB's mean a lot more flexibility.[/quote]Well you can trade/sign for 1 guy.
You cannot trade/sign an entire offense that creates a 'system' QB.

I think you have it backwards.
A system QB forces the team to re-create that system to have success.
A scheme diverse i.e. physically talented QB means more flexibility.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=30gut;873234]Well you can trade/sign for 1 guy.
You cannot trade/sign an entire offense that creates a 'system' QB.

I think you have it backwards.
A system QB forces the team to re-create that system to have success.
A scheme diverse i.e. physically talented QB means more flexibility.[/quote]


[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I guess my comment is more of a digg at Kyle Shanahan.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]
And I don’t think we should design a system around a guy that pundits have deemed a “system qb”, its more that we should design a system where not just once in a generation talent can operate it. [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]My thought is that to call Flynn a system quarterback is to imply Rodgers is one too. Weve all heard people call Tom Brady a system QB, particularly when Cassel stepped in and threw for almost 4k yards. And we hear it at the college level all day long. It just seems to me if Aaron Rodgers can have arguably the best season ever for a QB and his back up can step in and set multiple all time GB records then whats so bad about having a system that allows guys like Rodgers, Brady or Flynn to be successful? [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Really great QB’s that can do it all are so rare. So sure a guy like Luck may be able to step into any offense and have great success but the odds of landing someone as highly touted as him are seldom to none. Drafting a guys like Rodgers or Flynn that arnt as highly touted but still have the necessary abilities to be very successful when constrained to a particular system, to me, make teams much more flexible. If your schemes are designed for only the very best, then the team’s overall success has a ceiling that’s directly determined by team’s personal, just look at the Colts. [/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Calibri][/FONT]

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=44Deezel;873225]Cassel hasn't been terrible in KC, and even though NE won 11 games with Cassel, he wasn't putting up the same numbers as Brady. He is what he is. I think the year before Brady threw for over 50 TDs. I would have taken Cassel here over the train wreck we've had over the last 2 years.[/quote]

I don't think I ever said he was awful. I just said the comparison was valid.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=mlmpetert;873282][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I guess my comment is more of a digg at Kyle Shanahan.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]
And I don’t think we should design a system around a guy that pundits have deemed a “system qb”, its more that we should design a system where not just once in a generation talent can operate it. [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]My thought is that to call Flynn a system quarterback is to imply Rodgers is one too. Weve all heard people call Tom Brady a system QB, particularly when Cassel stepped in and threw for almost 4k yards. And we hear it at the college level all day long. It just seems to me if Aaron Rodgers can have arguably the best season ever for a QB and his back up can step in and set multiple all time GB records then whats so bad about having a system that allows guys like Rodgers, Brady or Flynn to be successful? [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Really great QB’s that can do it all are so rare. So sure a guy like Luck may be able to step into any offense and have great success but the odds of landing someone as highly touted as him are seldom to none. Drafting a guys like Rodgers or Flynn that arnt as highly touted but still have the necessary abilities to be very successful when constrained to a particular system, to me, make teams much more flexible. If your schemes are designed for only the very best, then the team’s overall success has a ceiling that’s directly determined by team’s personal, just look at the Colts. [/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Calibri][/FONT][/quote]

We run a very similar system and if we add a bonafied #1 Receiver, and Hankserson proves to be a competent #2, we'll have plenty of talent around him. Moss #3, our young RB rotation, Davis and Cooley and 9 draft picks and free agency to fill other needs. Top 15 Defense that is young. Flynn wouldn't be walking into a terrible situation.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

You know, the more I think about it, the more I don't mind a "system" quarterback if within the 'skins system, he's successful and plays with the Redskins his entire career. Why would I care about what he could do elsewhere?

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=44Deezel;873289][B]We run a very similar system[/B] and if we add a bonafied #1 Receiver, and Hankserson proves to be a competent #2, we'll have plenty of talent around him. Moss #3, our young RB rotation, Davis and Cooley and 9 draft picks and free agency to fill other needs. Top 15 Defense that is young. Flynn wouldn't be walking into a terrible situation.[/quote]

Please explain to me the similarities to me in a way that refutes 30gut's very cogent and detailed argument that we don't so that I can weigh the credibility of each statement. Right now all you have done is make the general, unsupported statement that GB runs a similar system to us.

As to Flynn, the talent drop-off from GB to us is significant at the WR position. Maybe Flynn can compensate for that, maybe not. As I said earlier, if it's just money at issue, sure, grab him BUT be sure to add a solid rookie in the first or 2nd round. Right now, I believe that, though holes still exist, there is enough in place to draft and develop the "QB of the Future". Not sure if Flynn is that guy so I think we need to draft at least one QB who we think may be the guy.

[QUOTE=Dirtbag59;873223]I have to admit. This pic has me worried.
[IMG]http://drunkathlete.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/matt_flynn21.jpg[/IMG]
I knew between RG3 and Flynn that RG3 would have the uncontested edge in intangibles but it's hard to take an athlete seriously when they smoke cigarettes. Especially when they're unproven. Maybe he's quit since then but still. Not a good sign.[/QUOTE]

I'm not gonna lie, that picture makes him look like he'd be better served hanging with Matt Leinart than playing football, but I guess we should hope those days are over.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;873223]I have to admit. This pic has me worried.
[IMG]http://drunkathlete.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/matt_flynn21.jpg[/IMG]
I knew between RG3 and Flynn that RG3 would have the uncontested edge in intangibles but it's hard to take an athlete seriously when they smoke cigarettes. Especially when they're unproven. Maybe he's quit since then but still. Not a good sign.[/quote]

Cut him some slack they're watching game six.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

Here's how our guy rocks it!!

[IMG]http://http://drunkathlete.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/rex-grossman-drunk-pictures1.jpg[/IMG]

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

omg, a qb in the NFL is out partying with his peeps...shouldnt he be reading the play book, or watching film 24/7? whats wrong with you people?

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=CrustyRedskin;873341]Cut him some slack they're watching game six.[/quote]

well, neither cig is lit, perhaps they're just posers

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=44Deezel;873289]We run a very similar system and if we add a bonafied #1 Receiver, and Hankserson proves to be a competent #2, we'll have plenty of talent around him. Moss #3, our young RB rotation, Davis and Cooley and 9 draft picks and free agency to fill other needs. Top 15 Defense that is young. Flynn wouldn't be walking into a terrible situation.[/quote]

Our passing game is almost nothing like GB's at all.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=FRPLG;873365]Our passing game is almost nothing like GB's at all.[/quote]
Our passing game is very similar to theirs. The biggest difference is QB. They do pretty much what we do. I have heard several NFL analysts say that he would fit our system perfectly. From my amatuer eye, I feel the same way.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;873368][B]Our passing game is very similar to theirs.[/B] The biggest difference is QB. They do pretty much what we do. I have heard several NFL analysts say that he would fit our system perfectly. From my amatuer eye, I feel the same way.[/quote]

In what ways?

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=Lotus;873372]In what ways?[/quote]

When we play Green Bay, both QBs throw the ball to players in Packers jersey....zing!! **and Rex throws another interception**

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=Lotus;871687]Matt Flynn smells of Scott Mitchell.[/quote]


Most unfair. Scott Mitchell was a guy who had trouble staying in shape and who became gun-shy after about two good hits in a game. Matt Flynn may not be the world-beater that he looked like last Sunday, but he has worked hard and studied hard to get where he is. That alone makes him more than Scott Mitchell was.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=smootsmack;873375]when we play green bay, both qbs throw the ball to players in packers jersey....zing!! **and rex throws another interception**[/quote]

rofl.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=dmek25;873343]omg, a qb in the NFL is out partying with his peeps...shouldnt he be reading the play book, or watching film 24/7? whats wrong with you people?[/quote]

Well he is part of the No Fun League.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;873378]Most unfair. Scott Mitchell was a guy who had trouble staying in shape and who became gun-shy after about two good hits in a game. Matt Flynn may not be the world-beater that he looked like last Sunday, but he has worked hard and studied hard to get where he is. That alone makes him more than Scott Mitchell was.[/quote]

How about AJ Feeley?

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=Lotus;873372]In what ways?[/quote]
They run the west coast offense they throw on the run allot, they run a zone blocking scheme. Tell me whats different, thats the question. I dont understand what this argument is about. The Raiders run a different offense from ours. They run a verticle passing game. Carson Palmer is a QB that does not fit our system.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;873368]Our passing game is very similar to theirs. The biggest difference is QB. They do pretty much what we do. I have heard several NFL analysts say that he would fit our system perfectly. From my amatuer eye, I feel the same way.[/quote]

Same here. I've heard the same thing from several sources, and even Kyle tried to dispell the mystique surrounding his "system". I think people get too carried away with the "system", and how long it takes to learn. All the crap about Al Saunder's 700 page playbook was ridiculous. It's not like they're running the run and shoot or wildcat or triple option Offense. They run the ball, they pass the ball, they utilize the TE, the QB lines up over center and in shotgun. When Kyle had capable talent in Houston, their Offense didn't look worlds apart from green Bays.

“You don’t need a guy that’s experienced with your system,” said Shanahan, who is in his second season with the Redskins after directing the Houston Texans’ offense in 2008 and 2009. “When [Matt] Schaub came into Houston in his first year, he played at a very high level. I don’t think it’s a system that takes a long time to learn. You can get better at it, [B][U]but everyone in the league runs similar plays.”[/U][/B]

That said, I'm not saying they should put all their eggs in the Mat Flynn basket. If they didn't have to trade for him, I'd be open to them grabbing him and still drafting a QB in the early rounds. We need 2-3 new QBs on opening day.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

@Russellmania980
Chris Russell @JustinTheLawyer Not sure why @SnydeRemarks would say Flynn "isn't a solid fit" other than lack of games. [B]System is very similar.[/B] #Redskins

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=Mattyk;873357]well, neither cig is lit, perhaps they're just posers[/quote]

That would be worse. I'll take blackened lungs over fakers any day of the week. Lol.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=Paintrain;873382]How about AJ Feeley?[/quote]

Packer Backup QB's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All Eagle QB's

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

Landry Jones is Staying at OU for his senior year.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

^Good.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;873399]Landry Jones is Staying at OU for his senior year.[/quote]

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu. Unless we get the chain smoker (or poser) at QB then we have less options on draft day.

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;873378]Most unfair. Scott Mitchell was a guy who had trouble staying in shape and who became gun-shy after about two good hits in a game. Matt Flynn may not be the world-beater that he looked like last Sunday, but he has worked hard and studied hard to get where he is. That alone makes him more than Scott Mitchell was.[/quote]

Ok. But how do you know that your description of Mitchell won't be true of Flynn as well down the road?

[QUOTE=CultBrennan59;873399]Landry Jones is Staying at OU for his senior year.[/QUOTE]



Called it since day one:)

Re: What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins
 

[quote=Bushead;871660]Please stop this madness.[/quote]

ditto